Utopia Talk / General Talk / + The UGT Book Club +

Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 05:27:49 o hai there! do u like 2 reed? maybe we can 2 reed 2gether and talk about it! :D
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 05:28:29 So yeah! Maybe we can pick a book and read it with a casual pace (like over a few weeks) and just say random stuff about it. Walking Dead is off the air until February, so this is a good time for extra reading ;D Possible guidelines for book suggestions: - No pretentious/obscure books; this would include ancient Chinese fiction, major classics like War and Peace, Greek poetics, etc. - No cripplingly long books. A page limit might be too harsh, but just avoid the ultra-dense - Maybe keep it post-1900? Try for more modern books
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 05:30:04 Here would be a few I'd be interested in: - Ender's Game (topical!) 352pages - Dune (sci-fi!) 896pages - Harry Potter (to criticize it!) 320pages Dune might be too long and Harry Potter might be too ironic, though..
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 05:39:30 oo! Hunger Games is probably safe to read now that they're 2 movies in
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 05:43:12 ..I've never read Neuromancer (288pages) Same author as Johnny Mnemonic, with similar story
McKobb Member	Tue Dec 03 07:23:02 Good Idea. Hunger Games sounds like a good start but let's see what others bring up.
repel Member	Tue Dec 03 08:34:47 too many books to read already, atm I have still laying around books 8-12 of forgotten realms the drizzt saga and the games of throne I stopped at book 4 so I need to catch up with that one again. but if you guys drop a book which looks interesting I'll prob join in. Hunger games is a good start but I prob wont make it on this short term. :)
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 09:21:20 What short term? :p Is this about Sweden? :D
repel Member	Tue Dec 03 09:22:17 yep in the middle of packing stuff and such :D
repel Member	Tue Dec 03 09:22:43 and I have to get the book first lol
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 09:23:40 yay!! :D
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 09:24:57 Hunger Games is so popular that you can probably find it stabilizing random, crooked tables at this point ;D
repel Member	Tue Dec 03 09:29:27 as said you guys and gals just drop some books in here and if I'm settled I can start joining in ;) We should do that spotify thingy too somewhere this month... :P
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 09:31:53 defs!
OsamaIsDaWorstPresid Member	Tue Dec 03 09:37:43 u shuld try tham litel porno comicks i remembar dis 1 wear skulie from da x files has sex wit a wearwolf it wuz leik 20 pages long and thay investigte da sexuel atraction womin haev 2 da wolf and solv da case
McKobb Member	Tue Dec 03 09:40:11 It's the fleas.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 03 16:29:12 lol wut
Marlboro man Member	Wed Dec 04 17:13:34 Lord Foul's Bane The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever #1
Marlboro man Member	Wed Dec 04 17:21:14 Mostly because the names of some of the people in this book sounds epic, in my mind, in swedish.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Dec 04 17:33:04 Made me think of this movie :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdpFpfIBkXc
Marlboro man Member	Thu Dec 05 03:46:32 Pretty accurate.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Thu Dec 05 04:12:39 I just finished this, and will probably continue the series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Fleet:_Dauntless The Lost Fleet: Dauntless is the first book in Jack Campbell's The Lost Fleet series that was published in 2006. Dauntless sets the stage for the six novel saga about a fleet of over 200 ships trapped deep behind enemy lines and cut off from traveling to their home territory. John 'Black Jack' Geary has recently been rescued from a 100-year-old escape pod with a damaged beacon. He was the commanding officer of an early battle in what has become a century-old war between the Syndicate Worlds and the Alliance. His last actions in that battle led to his immortalization as a hero of the Alliance people and fleet, which by the time of the book has become blown out of proportion.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Thu Dec 05 04:13:31 Still feeling weak from being frozen for 100 years, Geary arrives at what is supposed to be a decisive battle for the Alliance against the Syndicate. The battle turns out to be a trap and as the leaders of the fleet board a shuttle to negotiate surrender, the Admiral calls on Geary to lead the fleet if anything should happen to him. Geary, assuming that the old laws of war still apply and that nothing ill would happen to his leaders, accepts. Mere hours later after the Admiral is executed, he finds himself in command of 200 ships that have been badly beaten and are cut off from retreat.
repel Member	Thu Dec 05 06:52:27 In which era does the above play EP?
Billah Member	Fri Dec 06 00:06:14 - No pretentious/obscure books; this would include ancient Chinese fiction, major classics like War and Peace, Greek poetics, etc. What a dumb book club. I only read books that fall under this silly classification. *leaves thread*
earthpig GTFO HOer	Fri Dec 06 01:07:06 "In which era does the above play EP?" Like a thousand or ten thousand years from now. Really not relevant to the book.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 06 04:43:53 "What a dumb book club. I only read books that fall under this silly classification." lol, exactly. That was the unspoken "Billah Clause" :p pretentious: "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed."
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 06 05:39:38 ep, I can't tell from the wiki description if it's interesting or not :D What's going on other than a "getting home" story?
Palem Person.	Sat Dec 07 18:06:39 "pretentious: "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." " Shouldn't that exclude The Hunger Games then?
Midion Member	Sat Dec 07 18:09:10 I have not read much after I finally finished the wheel of time series.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Dec 07 19:27:26 "Shouldn't that exclude The Hunger Games then?" lol.. Well it definitely has more hype than it's worth, but as a novel it's not too pretentious because it's written on about an 8th grade reading level, so it's okay I think :D
Palem Person.	Sat Dec 07 21:00:56 So is Twilight. You gonna read that too? :p
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Dec 07 22:27:43 ..already did :D
Palem Person.	Sun Dec 08 10:35:33 *facepalm* I'm out lol
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Dec 08 12:23:11 lol, hey! You can suggest something too! :D I'd also be up for ep's book. And maybe we can decide by Friday and start by next Monday.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Dec 08 23:17:13 " What's going on other than a "getting home" story? " In the 100 years that the main character has been asleep, command-level naval officers have gotten younger and younger due to attrition. On both sides, lots of tactical skills have fallen away. Attrition reigns supreme. Aggressiveness is valued over wisdom, mostly because of the actions he took 100 years ago prior to falling asleep and becoming a huge hero to his side. Military discipline has also fallen by the wayside, to the point that it isn't crazy for someone to suggest that ship captains vote on a course of action. No one salutes any more. He's trying to teach/show his command that the old fashioned way is better, but mutiny is a very realistic possibility and not even unheard of. There are rumors that while he was once Mr. Brave and Brilliant Hero of his side, now thanks to his time asleep, he's an empty shell of who he once was. Why is this dinosaur in command of our fleet again, exactly? He doesn't even know our tech!
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Dec 08 23:21:12 The laws of war have also very much fallen away. Prisoner treatment and the like. Too much bitterness, to much hate. So he is also determined that these potentially mutinous ship captains under him will hence forth follow the laws of war. Which they don't like at all.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 13 20:36:53 Sooo hunger games or "The Lost Fleet" ? :) Or a mystery selection!! [which you must provide] ;p
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 17 18:48:16 Well, I'm going to start reading Hunger Games this weekend. I've heard that Liam Hemsworth is even cuter in the book, so..
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Dec 19 18:20:13 Did anyone else get it? :D Come on people! It's a few hundred pages of child-sized font :p ep: I ordered Dauntless so I'll be reading that too :)
repel Member	Fri Dec 20 03:50:43 nope didn't got it yet ;)
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 20 05:08:36 well hmm.. then I'll just spam the thread with whatever parts of the book interest me :p
repel Member	Fri Dec 20 07:42:19 then I'm gonna avoid this thread for a while :P
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 20 16:09:43 oh no!! D: book club is down to 1! I'll label anything book-related "spoilers" (^◡^)
Laura Palmer Member	Fri Dec 20 19:40:37 C`mon, Im a snob. If we`re going to read post-1900 lets get some decent writers...Cormac Mccarthy (actually have no idea how long his novels are), John Fante (shorter novels), Douglas Coupland is a pretty easy read, Robertson Davies....
earthpig GTFO HOer	Fri Dec 20 19:44:18 Alas CC, I have already read Hunger Games.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Dec 20 20:13:47 Then fuck you! ;D .. you'll be able to say stuff though, so that works :p I was trying to keep it light, LP! But we could totally read McCarthy next. Or now. Whatever :p
Laura Palmer Member	Sat Dec 21 15:21:42 Whats his shortest book. Im not doing anything, Ill run to Chapters.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 24 23:46:15 I'm not that familiar with his work :/ ...have been reading Neuromancer. Mostly it's just about imagining a particular brand of future (cybernetic implant future), but it's had some nice things to say about a person (in this story, the main character, Case) feeling the difference between body and mind... almost like Mary Shelley in that way, but the direct language reminds me of that line from Lord of Illusions (1995): "flesh is a trap, and magic sets us free" .. can definitely see how The Matrix was inspired by this, too. Aside from the obvious cyberspace/matrix parallels, everything is very mirrored. The Molly character has mirrored eyes, Case looks in shop windows to try to spot the person following him (which, incidentally, was Molly), a couple different characters wear mirrored glasses (just like Morpheus)... All a big metaphor for indistinguishable realities or the breakdown of reality when the dream world is empowered. There's even a scene where Molly meets someone wearing glasses, and he says something about how he needs to remove -his- or they'll just get lost in an infinity. That's like The Thirteenth Floor's plot, where evil Bierko tries to shut down the simulation within the simulation. And it's just like language; when it becomes referential to other language and not referential to the reality that language is supposed to represent, it creates this funhouse world where reality is "twice removed" like a big Mimesis study or something...
nhill Member	Mon Dec 30 21:34:05 Already read Neuromancer, Dune, Ender's Game, all the Harry Potter books and The Hunger Games (kind of -- it was so terrible that I quit a couple chapters before the end, but luckily it can be read in a few hours). I'm not that well read, just coincidence. Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein would by my suggestion. Blood Meridian if we want to go McCarthy.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 02 16:32:17 Yeah! Let's read those! :D Oh ouah, did you read all of the Dune series? It's so much desert.. Not sure if I'd ever bring myself to read Harry Potter.. it's fun reading pop fiction but that might be -too- pop for me ;p .. I'm about to finish Neuromancer! I didn't realize that Molly was Jane (Dina Meyer) from the Johnny Mnemonic movie (there's a part in Neuromancer when she basically talks about the plot of Johnny Mnemonic). And I guess in this fictional universe Johnny was killed by a cyber-ninja.. so that's sad. And it's funny that Johnny Mnemonic (movie) was released in 1995, and because feminism wasn't in the mainstream enough its producers made Johnny the hero instead of Molly/Jane. I still liked that movie, but seeing how much Buffy and Xena changed pop culture is really cools Also liked Gibson's commentary on corporate identity: the immortal corporation, the mute corporate mind, and how adopting hegemony gives indirect power.. In Ch.17: "[Case had] always imagined it as a gradual and willing accommodation of the machine, the system, the parent organism. It was the root of street cool, too, the knowing posture that implied connection, invisible lines up to hidden levels of influence."
nhill Member	Thu Jan 02 21:19:10 I read all books in the Dune series written by Frank Herbert, and it is a bit ponderous later in the series. Not sure if I regret it or not. The later books elucidate Herbert's insightful views into power agglomeration and how a movement can take on a consciousness different than the leader of it -- even while he's still alive. Kinda similar to parenting, but I doubt that's where he was going with it. Probably more of a religious bent, i.e. a warning to prophetic figures that once you start something, the ball keeps rolling even if you've outgrown it. How legions of followers can twist your message into their own purposes. There is a lot of societal commentary implied. Give wisdom to the masses and they are so dumb they turn it into the opposite. It's a cynical viewpoint, but Herbert illustrated it adroitly. Can't believe you've made it through Neuromancer and not mentioned cyberspace: "Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation, by children being taught mathematical concepts... A graphic representation of data abstracted from the banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data. Like city lights, receding." Being written in 1984, it's almost eerie. Maybe you are avoiding the obvious, but whatever. 25% through Stranger in a Strange land (weird how page numbers lose meaning once you get an ebook reader). Will wait a bit to discuss it, getting tired.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 02 21:29:19 "Maybe you are avoiding the obvious, but whatever." Yeah.. Most of it is so common now that a lot of it isn't worth mentioning. 'The Matrix' pretty much brought all of this to the mainstream. But yes, definitely cool that this was 1984. Aside from some movie/material references later on (like to Clint Eastwood or "cassettes"), the vocabulary even seems like a future distant to -now-. And a lot of dark content mixed into that, like how Molly was a prostitute with a mental "off" switch, and just accepted having her body abused as a placeholder to gain money... I wish the story had been written from her perspective instead.
nhill Member	Thu Jan 02 22:29:00 "'The Matrix' pretty much brought all of this to the mainstream." Mainstream to Western civilization, you mean. Ghost in the Shell had brought it mainstream across seas a few years earlier. I'm being pedantic for a reason, though; it is well worth the time watching.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 02 22:44:44 Yes, Western :p ..haven't seen Ghost in the Shell in a while but probably won't rewatch; aside from Sailor Moon I was never really a big anime fan
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jan 06 17:11:14 I've started on The Hunger Games and it is ridiculously easy to read. Even with a busy schedule this should only take a couple of days to read. It's like a Goosebumps book or something; I had to look it up — it's considered a 7th grade reading level, which basically means that it's for retarded people. So check it out! :D ;D Thoughts/Reviews (no spoilers really): .... Chapter 1 lol, Collins described Gale's expression as "smoldering" (p17*) .. that's such a cheesy word, but it's like the go-to low-level literary affect word to use for the serious expressions of cute boys. Collins' lack of casual terms in this chapter kind of shows her own distance from what she's talking about, but she's at least not repeating vocabulary like Stephenie Meyer (who likes the word "chagrin" way too much) Chapter 2 Jennifer Lawrence was good in this chapter. She has the flashback to Peeta's subtle charity, which was a vivid scene.. Collins seems to be using unperceptive characters (particularly Lawrence) to show their forced lack of education, so there's a lot of space to grow them. Yep.. Chapter 3 On the train meow. More background about the other districts. It's definitely helpful to have seen the movies first, because descriptions seem kind of sparse *of my version, which is the paperback trilogy boxset version: http://www...1&sr=1-2&keywords=hunger+games
chuck Member	Wed Jan 08 21:27:49 Read all the Hunger Games books at the beach after I gave up on my pretentious, "I should read this to become a better person oh and also note to self start flossing" book fell through. Also Cormac McCarthy's The Road is short and will scratch your Serious McSeriousFace itch while also giving you post-apocalypse Walking Dead good vibrations. On a side note, you are eloquent enough in your movie reviews and then here too that it makes me frustrated that I can't put words in order like that. How you did get so good at?
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Jan 10 04:45:39 Thanks! :D .. it's probably just the result of lots of reading, writing, and the Police Academy Movies ;p (or just movie-watching) & cool! Then maybe The Road next? I heard there's baby-eating, which is always a plus. -=- Well my friend introduced me to Fireball Whiskey and an old man treated us to shots XD .. so I'm not quite finished with the first book yet.. but anyways (( Spoilers ahead )) Hunger Games: Chapters 4-14 I guess Collins likes the word "smoldering" a lot, because it's used twice more to this point. But I'll stop being mean with calling out flaws. It's a pretty fun book; very easy to read, and it helps that the movie followed it very closely. One thing though: in the movie I don't think they showed so much that Katniss continued to think that Peeta was totally putting on an act... or maybe it was just clear in the movie that Peeta really did have a crush on her, so her perceptions were decentered. Either way, in the book she's both much more suspicious and much more unperceptive. It's very much teen fiction in that way; all these inabilities to perceive signals — and for the teen reader, the life&death narrative maybe boosts that self-centered sense that missing romantic signals is totes crucial and painful. Like when Peeta shows up with the "careers," for teen readers its parallel is like, "omg! he told me he ♥ed me but now he's with *her*!?" or "he's hanging out with *them*? I *knew* he was a prep!" lol... ..it's easy to read this like one big catering event for teen psychology. That's where the book was shelved, so it makes sense; just saying :p Another thing that wasn't really focused on so much in the first movie but which seems apparent in the book: the impending rebellion really seems outside of Katniss' mind. She's being used by pretty much everyone (not just the Capital, but also instigators like Cinna and Haymitch), but she doesn't really notice the depth of that. The end of second movie caught up to this though... in movie&book, it seems like it's all part of Katniss becoming more socially conscious, which fits the story's use as commentary on celebrity culture and realizing how different forces act on the identity Other stuff - funny that Katniss says she was "starving" at one point, but not in flashback — it's used like an expression between meals. Strange vocab choice by Collins given the subject matter. The first time I thought it was sarcasm (Ch.6, p92), but later it's too casual. Not sure if that was intentional by Collins - Katniss puts it together that the Capital might have used fire against her specifically because her/Cinna's fire costumes were well-perceived. That's maybe a fun commentary on the culture machine destroying the positive.. like a good song being played to death on the radio, maybe, but I'm tired :p I'm at the part where she's just recovered from the wasp bites..
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Jan 11 05:32:49 (( spoiler )) Chapter 18 So sads :'( Much more emotion in Rue's death than was shown in the movie. Katniss' connection to Rue was probably not given the attention it needed, but I kind of want to rewatch it now with the extra background. This is also a big rebellion moment for Katniss, because she blames the capital, not the other districts, which starts to break the cycle... time to admit that I like this book :D
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jan 13 04:28:17 Hunger Games (( spoilers )) sad ending :( The movie tried to cover a lot of Katniss' confusion, but in the book the last chapters especially have just too much inner monologue for it all to be apparent on screen without Katniss narrating. The book is also more tragic for Peeta, because he's described as pretty much completely unaware that Katniss is acting until the end, (and Katniss is still unaware that he's not).. whereas in the movie he's doubted it all pretty early... I like to support book-to-screen adaptation, but I'm not sure if I agree with that particular change. It could be that the actors had trouble acting like they weren't acting or something. I'll have to watch it again.. - liked this line: "[Once home again,] What would my life be like on a daily basis? Most of it has been consumed with the acquisition of food. Take that away and I'm not really sure who I am, what my identity is" (Ch.23, p378). It's kind of Marxist, because the working class is kept from enough leisure to revolt, but thinking of the identity side... it's can be very true, not just of Collins' commentary on celebrity culture (where celebrities have too much spotlight to be real people) but of people in general. People make all kinds of cognitive choices, but some can lead towards identity and some away from it. In quiet thought, past choices can suddenly be terrible mistakes. In Katniss' case, having created an entirely separate public identity, she's left to sort out the truth, and in the end of this book she's putting herself at odds with it -and- with the lie. All this "public" and "private" is making me think of "Hunger of Memory" .. or maybe nhill's mention of Muad'Dib ;p — Katniss now a person made symbol for conflicting purposes, the capital's and the rebellion's. Lots of "culture industry" stuff here too; the Games being a distraction to fuel materialism and cultural consumption at the expense of its downtrodden. And especially when Katniss thinks, "the Hunger Games are their weapon and you are not supposed to be able to defeat it. So now the Capitol will act as if they've been in control the whole time" (Ch.26, p435). This goes along with the culture industry assimilating rebellion. If someone breaks the mold, whatever they did is adapted and diluted, made common and accessible and safe. Rebellion is commercialized, like Pink dressing "punk" but singing pop. Anyways! I'm kind of at the same place I was at the end of the movies :p Collins seems aware of the kind of rebellion she's building, I just wonder -how much-. She's commenting on the nature of storytelling itself, perceiving/judging the audience of the book by comparing them to the audience of the Games. She's aligning herself (as the author) with the in-book Gamemakers and the Games get pulled along by Gamemaker-contrived events which become the story, so *she's* catering to the book's audience by adding generic excitements in the same way as the Gamemakers must in order to entice the Capital's decadent audience. But the choice she builds into it is that [book reader's]/[movie viewers] can be the same fickle or easily-amused trope-seekers (looking for the love story, for the violence/action, the cliffhanger chapter ending, etc.) or they can see that in this story is a built-in self-destruct where the reader rebels against the author. Should be fun to see where she goes with it :p .. I'll start on the second meow, and hopefully finish this week before my theater pulls the second movie and I can't compare book and movie so easily
chuck Member	Mon Jan 13 22:03:45 This is my pretty straight forward reading of it, but I found myself thinking about reality TV a lot while reading it. Specifically, competitions like American Idol or The Voice: the stakes are clearly different but the whole idea that victors travel to the Capital for subsequent games and live lavishly after winning reminded me of getting a record deal and *Yay* now you're famous, welcome to the club. From a storytelling perspective I liked how central this reality TVesque thing was. It made sense within the context of the story too - with it being such a huge part of modern culture, it seems plausible that a crueler version is still around in this not so distant future. Inverting reality TV fame into a horrible thing that everybody wants to avoid made for a good premise and by inverting the hopes and dreams of so many of us huddled masses (imma get famous for nothing and be Riiiiiich!), it casts life in the public eye in a different light. /my best CC imitation //wwccd?
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Jan 15 22:11:41 ;p Yeah! Defs! Even Jennifer Lawrence going around to different talk shows after making The Hunger Games is like the tour of the Victors. She's sensationalized in the media on magazine covers and red carpet appearances and has to take on a public image. Peeta and Katniss' forced relationship could even relate to celeb relationships like Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattinson — where it's not clear if it's real or for the audience's benefit (to sell them on the idea as a means of control; either placating the masses or feeding into some capitalist's pockets). It's really everywhere, and it's kind of why celebrity culture is so ugly. It's all public and private duplicities; all guises that maybe question if the genuine can even take place when cameras intrude on life or moreso when the -idea- of the camera conditions a person's psyche into certain behaviors. The whole cave scene was probably a reference to the old "allegory of the cave" situation, where Katniss doesn't see the reality of the Capital, but she nonetheless prides herself on ordering her behaviors in a way that gives strength/form/reality to those Capital "shadows"... For her it's necessity, though. I'm kind of hoping that she'll stop bothering to think about the Capital *and* stop bothering to think about the revolutionaries, but I doubt that Collins likes anarchy that much ;D I'm thinking of Chuck Palahniuk's Survivor, too! http://en....rvivor_(Chuck_Palahniuk_novel) That's all about the unreality of public image. And it makes me want to tell everyone to kill themselves ;p -=- Haven't gotten to read this book much so far this week, but I should catch up a bit today and tomorrow.. Catching Fire, Chapters 1-4 Really not much happening. It's good background and it's starting things off like it should, but Collins has these constant recaps on the first novel which sort of take away from the story. I don't like that in movies either; where they show too much of the stuff that happened in former movies of the franchise... it's fine to allude or be stylistic with it, but she's just restating things. rawr, Matt Damon
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Jan 19 03:10:03 Am just starting Part II now. It was a busy week :/ Anyways! Random thoughts so far: + Catching Fire + Chapter 3 I liked this part: "My time in the arena made me realize how I needed to stop punishing [my mom] for something she couldn't help, specifically the crushing depression she fell into after my father's death. Because sometimes things happen to people and they're not equipped to deal with them" (p38). I think I learned that same lesson when I was a little younger than Katniss' fictional age.. and it expands into so much, like how a lot of times it can be impossible to think yourself out of your life situations. Or even knowing the solution, just being stuck in a spiral of emotions.. Chapter 4 had to lol at this; Katniss talking about Capitol fashions: "Do they really have no idea how freakish they look to the rest of us?" (p60). It immediately made me think of Sofia Vergara and her creepy veneers, but also surgery addicts with artificial-looking noses (like they got "Diamond" nose jobs instead of natural-looking surgeries, since they lack all normal aesthetics). Also all the weirdos in L.A. who apply makeup with paint rollers ;D Chapter 5 "We manage the darkness as we did in the arena, wrapped in each other's arms, guarding against dangers that can descend at any moment" (p89). ♥♥♥♥♥s ≧◠‿◠≦ ... Descriptions like this really make the book break from the movie. Liam Hemsworth makes it obvious why Katniss ♥s Gale in the -movie-, but in the book Peeta really seems great. I know this triangle is supposed to be Katniss' questioning of the life the Capitol is making (which she partially associates with Peeta) and the life she had before (which was constant contact with Gale), but so far Gale hasn't exactly been nice, whereas Peeta accepts her. This might just be showing the trouble with feeling manipulated. I probably have that same complex; if someone/something makes choices -for- me, I tend to reject the outcome, sometimes regardless of whether or not it's positive. So in the story, I guess it's not really a matter of being with the right person, but wanting the choice.. which connects back to Katniss just wanting time to think without pressures from a public entity.. like she says later: "If we could get somewhere safe, maybe I could be different. I don't know" (Ch.7, p119) Chapter 7 The Mockingjay is summed up again!: "A mockingjay is a creature the Capitol never intended to exist... They hadn't anticipated its will to live" (p112). And of course, Katniss with her pin from Madge is a symbol of that resolve. Like Neo! :D part of the eternally "unbalanced equation" of control Chapter 8 Liked this :D "No wonder I won the Games. No decent person ever does" (p143). I hope Katniss keeps thinking about this — being a terrible person but a survivor is fun ;D On to Part II!
chuck Member	Mon Jan 20 16:37:23 <3 Survivor. I burned out on Chuck Paluhniuk after 4 or 5 books (he's got a very particular way of writing that can grind if you try to read his stuff back to back to back to...) but Survivor was the second I read after Fight Club and I really enjoyed it. It's also the only *real* book I've ever read in German - a friend saw it (titled as Flug 2039) and picked it up for me thinking it was so weird there was a German author named Chuck Paluhniuk Roman :-P http://www...-Chuck-Palahniuk/dp/3442541670
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jan 20 16:50:02 lol, "Flug 2039" :D It's one of my favorites by him. It's so unforgiving :) .. but I know what you mean! After reading Chuck you kind of think like him for a while. I love his style though
chuck Member	Mon Jan 20 16:51:58 I read it in English first though so I was able to kind of stumble through the bits that were beyond my vocabulary based on the freshness of the English version in my head. It's great fun if you find yourself bored of the grind!
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jan 20 17:04:41 "It's great fun" -- what, reading in German? :D
chuck Member	Mon Jan 20 17:43:40 Pick your poison! Whichever language you did for two to four semesters in high school :)
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jan 20 19:40:21 Oh! Klingon. ;D !!Just finished Catching Fire!! (( spoilers )) Chapter 13 This sounded almost like The Matrix, when Neo finds out that the One was just part of the system: "we, are the very embodiment of hope where there is no hope. And now twenty-three of us will be killed to show how even that hope was an illusion" (p212). Although it's also partly 1984 logic, where Winston finds out that even his escape from the province was still part of a system that accounts for rebellions. Or back to Baudelaire; living within a system, even when trying to break out of it. Or [insert random thinker] ;p Chapter 15 - Definitely liked how Collins transferred the social awareness to the Capitol. When Capitol dwellers realize that -their- friends (former Victors) will die: "It's more like watching your own friends die. More like the Games are for those of us in the districts" (p246). But even though I'm gaining faith in Collins' awareness, it's still to be seen where she'll go with this, if anywhere. - It's also nice when Katniss realizes that her public persona can match her private one [somewhat?]: "And I love it. Getting to be myself at last" (p256), and also later, "My private agenda dovetails completely with my public one" (p293). It may not be Collins' message, but I like to think that it means that true identity has to disregard audience wishes. Chapter 18 This made me think of a situation of one of my favorite movies (Still Breathing): "If I hadn't spent my life building up layers of defenses until I recoil at even the suggestion of marriage or a family?" (p310). Just because all the social/culture maneuvering can sometimes make it impossible to claim basic wishes. Chapter 23 Wondered about this.. This is where Katniss realizes that not learning a trade until -after- 18 (-after- being out of the tribute lottery) has been a disadvantage specific to District 12: "There are things you do in a mine that could come in handy in the Games ... But we learn them too late" (p400). In one way this could be showing that low-income areas (in real life) go into the adult workforce without ever learning the skills to succeed in it (with the exception of people like Katniss, who learned on their own). But learning any lesson too late could be other things too.. -=-= Anyways! *Really* different from the movie. There were only a few -major- plot differences from the first book to the first movie (like the Avox girl and Katniss' perceptual [in]abilities), but for the second book, half the story was removed for the movie. Both of the movies added in the Capitol's perceptions of the games in the early parts, like, by actually showing the President or Seneca Crane and developing their characters instead of the book's method of having them exist mostly as Katniss' inferences — a fair step to make given that the book was written in 1st person... ..but I can only guess that the -removal- of most of the rebellion/13thDistrict plot for the second movie was some combination of producer budgeting and plot stacking for the third movie. That's to say, building sets just for rebellion conversations (like with Bonnie and Twill) would have cost extra for the second movie, but the producers could use the set savings and viewer profits towards the third movie. And also, the plot of the third movie can be stronger by adding in all the background that was missing from the second; they get to do a dramatic reveal, explain the existence of a 13th district, etc. — kind of the same thing that Peter Jackson did with The Hobbit. Of course, the question is whether or not the third will really make those decisions count. By pushing all those plot points into the third, they may not be able to — wait, nevermind. I just google'd, and,.. they're splitting Mockingjay into 2 movies. This is going to continue until late 2015 :| Okay then... we will see :| I considered not reading the last book until the next movie, but I'm not waiting until November 2015, so I'll just start that meow
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 23 01:40:47 Hunger Games: Mockingjay (( SPOILERS )) Not too far yet; this week became busy :/ .. but so far: Chapter 1 "Those over fourteen have been given entry-level ranks in the military and are addressed respectfully as 'Soldier'" (p10) — well that's cheesy Chapter 2 "I take a deep breath. My arms rise slightly — as if recalling the black-and-white wings Cinna gave me — then come to rest at my sides. 'I'm going to be the Mockingjay'" (p37; Chapter 2 ending). Nevermind, *that*, was cheesy. Chapter 3 - "In some ways, District 13 is even more controlling than the Capitol" (p43). Yep :/ .. "meet the new boss. Same as the old boss." - "This must be the right decision. If Cinna wanted it" (p53). And she's *still* deferring to other peeps' decisions :/ Chapter 5 - "As a rebel, I thought I'd get to look more like myself. But it seems a televised rebel has her own standards to live up to" (p71). I'm kind of liking this theme; regardless of the cause, people try to construct an image out of her, but her personal successes came from moments when she was her own image. I really hope Collins takes this all the way.. - "Not his fault. Only self-defense. We were all acting only in self-defense" (p79). Katniss says this about the Victors, but the wider context is probably real-life peeps being guided into poor roles to survive in day-to-day life.. - "'They'll either want to kill you, kiss your, or be you'" (p84). I think James Cameron said this same annoying thing about Dark Angel :| *starting Chapter 7* It's been pretty stupid so far, actually. There weren't so many recaps of the first two books in the start of this one (like Catching Fire did for the first), but there were a few. The symbolic side of the revolution (the whole Mockingjay thing) has also been way to optimistic — even for this particular, optimistic dystopia. It might just be a limitation of 1st person narration. Katniss is not that bright, so everything is still being filtered through her poor perceptions. Still lots of room for improvement, but at the pace of this series so far, Katniss may not change that much.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Jan 23 14:12:41 http://jus...-sites-to-download-literature/
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Jan 25 19:02:10 of the things I'm reading on the side (not just reading Hunger Games right meow), I'm re-reading Neuromancer, and I [almost?] want to do story-boards and make it into a screenplay/graphic novel. Surprisingly, no one has done this. There -was- an attempt, but it was only the first two chapters and it's pretty dated (1989 aesthetics): http://www...omancer-graphicnovel/gn00.html It could be a fun group thing, too! :D We could sort of imagine different parts of it: character descriptions, cities/alleys, weapons.. all future imaginings (like, to make it into *our* imagining of a tech future).. we could build scenes, start with very basic stick-figures — actually PhotoShopping or drawing would be the final step, so the time-consuming part would be last It may require reading the rest of the Sprawl trilogy and Johnny Mnemonic, but there's actually a lot going on in Neuromancer...
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 30 01:22:00 so yeah, of *course*, right after I condemned Collins the next two chapters were fun :p anyways.. some thoughts (( Spoilers )) Hunger Games: Mockinjay Chapter 7 Kind of comical that they were shooting arrows at hovercraft/planes, but still a fun chapter. Collins explained the flight limitation by saying that real jets were lost before Panem, so the technology simply wasn't there, but the practicality of bow&arrow in a situation like this is still only borderline believable. Chapter 8 "The one with close-bitten nails introduces himself as Castor and the other, who's his brother, as Pollux" (p122). Srsly guise? Castor and Pollux? Okay whatever. A lot of the names have obviously been Roman style, and of course the society has Roman modelings, but something this blatant has me wondering if Collins is just making a general statement like, "U.S. culture is destroying itself like Ancient Rome; history is repeating itself" — which is nothing new — or if she feels like she's re-writing the legends again, this time with a change... all of that is sort of outside of the novel; she doesn't really bring up pre-Panem history often. I doubt many teen readers would be familiar with Cato the Elder&Younger or even care that the Cato character might have taken one of their names (probably the Elder), and even if you know who they are, it affects nothing, really. Collins would really have to introduce her own perceptions of names/onomastics. My only conclusion from the book itself is that she's creating more of a binary between capitol and district. The districts have 'normal' names like Gale and Katniss — elemental even, like Katniss being from a plant root — whereas the Capitol has historical names like Cato, Seneca, Caesar, etc... this splits classes, sure, but it's also showing how the Capitol's sort of social consciousness (willingly following ancient models, even in self-naming) can lead to self-destruction. I guess that's nice. The vanguard of revolution gets to be a return to nature. The artificial and overly-abstract distancing from vital life that is felt in decadent society can't escape its mortality and stuffs.. Chapter 9 "I'm sick of people lying to me for my own good. Because really it's mostly for their own good" (p139). That's right teen readers! Rebel!! :D Your parents have been lying to you. Let them know that you're starting a revolution and then leave. (But seriously, yes, do this) Chapter 11 {Gale talking about Peeta to Katniss}: "'...you do love him. I'm not saying in what way. Maybe you don't know yourself. But anyone paying attention could see how much you care about him" (p183). awwwww :) I'm totally on Peeta's side in the book world. I hope they fix him. Chapter 12 - "'Yes, a distraction,' says Finnick. 'A decoy of sorts'" (p196). Wow that was cheesy. Book 3 is definitely the cheesiest book. - {Finnick}: "'President Snow used to ... sell me .. my body'" (p198). D: ... Stranger still is how Collins has somehow broached the topic of forced prostitution in a kid-friendly way. Also, another Roman theme, since it goes with gladiators being sought after the arena.. - "They collide, enfold, lose their balance, and slam against a wall, where they stay. Clinging into one being. Indivisible" (p205). :) .. like a painting :) .. and this one fits too!: http://thejezabels.com/images_splash/packshot.jpg Chapter 13 "he's seen a lot worse injuries among the soldiers when they teach choke holds in training" (p208). They must be doing it wrong! Chapter 14 "The Hunger Games were an opportunity for wealth and a kind of glory not seen elsewhere. Of course, the people of [District] 2 swallowed the Capitol's propaganda more easily than the rest of us. Embraced their ways..." (p226). Nice! Kind of like people who join the real-life military and love it just a little too much, never learning to form their own minds. Being a military brat paid off for Collins after all ;p -=- kind of taking time with this one, but should be finished soon
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 30 01:25:21 *Hunger Games: [Mockingjay] or *Hunger Games: [Mockin'jay]
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Jan 30 01:27:47 Sry that this thread has degraded into me talking to myself like Movie Talk, btw :p If no one actually gets a copy of a Cormac McCarthy book, I'll probably read Dauntless next, since ep read that
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 30 18:20:50 i may join in eventually... i'm in the process of moving, i can't commit to reading a book right now :p
Palem Person.	Fri Jan 31 18:52:28 I'm reading books, just not the one's you're reading...and I'm not supplying book reports lol
earthpig GTFO HOer	Fri Jan 31 19:29:43 " Castor and Pollux? Okay whatever. A lot of the names have obviously been Roman style, and of course the society has Roman modelings, but something this blatant has me wondering if Collins is just making a general statement like, "U.S. culture is destroying itself like Ancient Rome; history is repeating itself" — which is nothing new — or if she feels like she's re-writing the legends again, this time with a change " I thought of them as easter eggs. For young teens, so perhaps the Roman Empire isn't too far of. They get to have a fun "ooooh!" moment.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Feb 01 00:20:30 That makes sense.. fits for Collins' speed. I mean, she was even analyzing her own poetry and symbols for the reader.. .. "and I'm not supplying book reports lol" you can keep it Beavis&Butthead simple and just say if it sucks or is good :p
chuck Member	Sun Feb 02 10:05:48 Never read Necromancer. Will take a peeksies.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Feb 02 10:10:37 Neuromancer
chuck Member	Sun Feb 02 22:55:54 Yeah, that one. My brain has a crap auto-correct >…< (Was going to blame it on the phone but typing neuromancer in gives you neuromancer out so drat, foiled again!)
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Feb 04 02:19:38 The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Final Chapters ((( PLOT SPOILERS ))) I'll start with harmless stuff, but I wrote the end first Chapter 16 "''Bread and Circuses.' The writer was saying that in return for full bellies and entertainment, his people had given up their political responsibilities and therefore their power'" (p261). Yep! But hard to paint as an absolute, isn't it? That is.. being entertained shouldn't be the entire world, but a distance from basic survival creates all kinds of outlets Chapter 19 "Darius and Lavinia ... the redheads ... I watched them tortured to death" (p320). Oh no! D': .. everyone is having deathed Chapter 22 "It's as if I'm Finnick, watching images of my life flasy by" (p365). Aww :( .. knew that Finnick was the expendable main character going into the Capitol assault, but it's still sad to see his relationship broken. It's the same thing as Cato and Clove; other characters in love don't get to live (save the end) Chapter 23 [Gale]: "I should have vounteered to take your place in the first Games. Protected her then" (p385). Yeah! wtf, *Gale*?? ;D Not really, of course. Like is made clear, there would have only been one victor if Gale had gone, simply because Gale was war Chapter 25 [Snow, after he explains that Coin was responsible for the child bombing]: "I'm afraid we have both been played for fools" (p418). Burn! ;p Chapter 27 - "They can design dream weapons that come to life in my hands, but they will never again brainwash me into the necessity of using them" (p440). From soldier puppet to activist actor, plus, finalizing rejection of authority figures and parents; transition complete. Well done :D - [Plutarch]: "Now we're in that sweet period where everyone agrees that our recent horrors should never be repeated ... But collective thinking is usually short-lived. We're fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self-destruction ... [but] maybe we are witnessing the evolution of the human race" (p442). Quite right! War eugenics ;D - "I know this would have happened anyways. That what I need to survive is not Gale's fire, kindled with rage and hatred. I have plenty of fire myself. What I need is the dandelion in the spring. The bright yellow that means rebirth instead of destruction. The promise that life can go on, no matter how bad our losses. That it can be good again. And only Peeta can give me that" (p453). ♥s :') Very good ending. I'm glad it was Peeta. Gale really never made sense. Peeta was the bestest. At first I didn't like that Katniss was swept out of the moment and reality questioned after Prim's revolution moment, but it recovered with Snow's/Katniss' conversation. I might have liked to know more about the rebuilding of the Capitol politics, but really, that's all sealed off anyways, even if it seemed cast aside with the "adults will handle it" writing. Coin being targeted was pretty clear before it happened, but it was still a nice story turn, and of course, Coin's politics were a potential source of a repeating history, so the peace is left optimistic with her removal. Also pretty happy about all the child killing at the end :D The rating really jumped to [a soft] R in the final chapters, and I wonder how much of this will be edited out for the movie, since they'll definitely want to keep their PG-13. Fun trilogy, overall. Pretty fair writing despite its teen target audience — accepting that, a lot of its flaws can be overlooked, like how it's only a pretty surface use of symbolism. blah blah. Dauntless next :p
Palem Person.	Tue Feb 04 22:02:56 Finished Perks of Being a Wallflower. Very easy read. Was a little better than the movie. Would give it a 75%. On to The Sun Also Rises :)
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Feb 06 16:09:47 Was Wallflower a teen movie? I think I didn't see it only because the lead person reminded me of Zac Efron ;D
Palem Person.	Thu Feb 06 21:38:21 Eh, yes and no. I would compare it to Breakfast Club. It's a coming of age movie, based around some highschool kids, but it's got a nice "everyone can relate to it" quality. The movie is a little more of a love story, the book is a little more of a coming of age story that's a fair bit darker.
chuck Member	Thu Feb 06 22:08:39 If the bookclub is doing serious books, please do Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse. My favorite English teacher made us read it but I wasn't smart enough to take anything from it. I'd love to see it get the cherub cow treatment!:-) I was (and still am) a little mystified at that choice. Seems a tad ambitious to assign to a bunch of high schoolers. I am typing with swype for the first time and i don't really have anything more Rio say but I'm gonna keep typing anyway. it can't handle supercalifragilisticexpialidocious (+/- some letters). Boo.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Feb 06 22:54:09 Oh noes! lulz.. Woolf's "The Waves" recently melted my brain places, but aktly, it's probably been long enough since reading it to attempt another of hers.. they're definitely demanding. I haven't read To The Lighthouse, but I imagine that if you checked you'd find that half of your English class has suicided ;D
TheHighQueen Member	Mon Apr 21 11:12:03 I am interested if the book is not trash. ;) ;)
chuck Member	Mon May 05 12:50:28 Read Cat's Cradle (Kurt Vonnegut) on Saturday. 10/10 would read again. Don't know how I've missed out on it for so long since it is over much right up my alley.
chuck Member	Mon May 05 12:50:56 s/over much/very much/
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Mar 09 13:44:02 !! 2015 Thread Resurrection !! I was reading Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five and noticed this: "Billy's will was paralyzed by a zap gun aimed at him from one of the portholes. It became imperative that he take hold of the bottom rung of the sinuous ladder, which he did. The rung was electrified, so that Billy's hands locked onto it hard. He was hauled into the airlock, and machinery closed the bottom door. Only then did the ladder, wound onto a reel in the airlock, let him go. Only then did Billy's brain start working again." Ignoring for the moment that this is about Vonnegut's experience of trauma, the idea of being immobilized by a futuristic/alien craft's electric ladder was something that it seems like Hunger Games sampled. That makes sense given that Suzanne Collins tries to address war trauma a lot.. I'll look for the exact phrasing in HG later, but a quick Google says that Slaughterhouse-Five was one of Collins' favorite books growing up..
McKobb Member	Mon Mar 09 14:05:37 samplin suzanne strikes again!
Damian DB Moderator	Thu Mar 12 19:33:10 I read the Hunger Games trilogy after the first movie came out, I really enjoyed it. Read the Perks of being a WallFlower as well, and I much prefer it to the movie, basically because it makes certain aspects much more clear than the movie did. and continuing on with movies based on booked, I read Silver Linings Playbook before the movie came out, and I really enjoyed that, a lot more than the movie. It really got more into character actions and motivations better. I heard SyFy was making a new series based on the Expanse book series, so I went ahead and read the 4 books and 3 novellas from that series. That is really good about balancing human fears of the unknown and xenophobia with racism and class issues. The Author is actually 2 authors that learned from George R. R. Martin so there is some similarities in world building and it's a good space opera. Following that I read Old Man's War by John Scalzi. Also a sci-fi series in space, but really gets into themes of identity and what makes someone themselves. I'm currently working on the second book in that series. I love Dune and I've actually read the far inferior books by Herbert's son, which I thought they were done with, but it seems there are still more books coming out based on the Butlerian Jihad after the fall of the machine empire. I'm stuck on the second book and just can't bring myself to keep reading because it's just soo.. .not Dune. Series of books that I'mm waiting on the next book for.... Brent Weeks - Lightbringer series. 3 books in, 4th book coming in 2016. It's a good story with an interesting magic system, but not incredibly well written Brandon Sanderson - The Stormlight Archive. 2 books in, 3rd coming in 2016 maybe? good thick heavy fantasy here, good ideas and abilities, I enjoy it but I with the books came out faster. AsoiaF - Martin... finish the series before you die please! Malazan Book of the Fallen - Steven Erikson - the 10 books of this series are out and when I do read it, it's really good. but it's really difficult for me to get into it to read :\
Palem Person.	Thu Mar 12 21:17:06 @ Damian - (Silver Linings Playbook) Was there something you didn't enjoy about the movie that made the book that much better? I quite adore the movie myself, but if it's worth a read I might pick it up (ASoIaF) I have faith he'll finish it! :) At worst, he's got 3 more books to put out and afaik, all reports are that he's in perfectly fine health for the age he's at. It would really be a shame if he dies before finishing it though. I likely wouldn't read anyone else's attempts at finishing the series. ______________________ Since the last time I visited the thread: Read "The Sun Also Rises". Was kinda hard to get through. Guys go drinking in the city. Guys go fishing. Guys go to bullfight. Ugg lol. Other than that it was pretty good, but I don't think I'll consider myself a big Hemingway fan, which is a shame since I love Fitzgerald. Reread "The Hobbit", and was reminded how completely horrible the Hobbit was lol Attempted to read LoTR, but I couldn't muster up much enthusiasm. It was right after I had finished the hobbit and after about the 3rd time that Frodo and the gang had to hide from a rider in the woods, I just had to put it down and I haven't picked it up again. It's weird because I know the story picks up, but man I really just can't make myself read it lol With that my readings are on hold. I might try to read the books my friend gave me for Christmas.
Damian db Moderator	Fri Mar 13 09:49:50 In the movie the dance was a contest were the book it was just a performance. Also there was more focus on the mental disease. More time had passed from the incident that sent him to the hospital than the movie showed although his perception of that time was the same. His ex wife didn't come see him perform and the momment of his realization about things were done better. Don't get me wrong I loved the movie, the book just did things better in my opinion. Also the reasoning behind tiffany's behavior was explained so much better.
Palem Person.	Fri Mar 13 18:05:51 Ah, I see. Might have to pick it up then
Billah Member	Fri Mar 20 00:05:20 I just finished reading all the GoT books. Pretty good series and a nicely described book world. Lots of interesting characters. Very well done.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Mar 21 20:14:49 Anyone else want to read this? "Yeti! Were?" "Sela’s a hot, curvaceous werewolf who minds her own business, and is simply trying to live a normal life. Little does she know that her world is about to come crashing down. The last thing she’s expecting is to cross paths with a yeti. But that’s exactly what happens when a crazy pack-mate locks her in a freezer. Yup, you guessed it…with a goddamn yeti. At which point, that seemingly normal life of hers begins to spiral out of control. Starting with the hotter than hot man licking his chops that’s fully intent on eating her…sadly for her, she, and not what’s between her legs is on the menu. Though at first Yosi cursed himself for ever having stopped in this backwoods town for a bite to eat, he’s now happier than a pig in shit that he did. Because the mundane life he’s led now revolves around finding as many ways to pleasure his luscious mate, Sela, that his dirty little mind can think up."
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Mar 21 20:15:26 Most of Hitler's policies would improve modern society, if applied.
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