Utopia Talk - Politics - Germans scrap F126 destroyer

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Germans scrap F126 destroyer

murder
rank Wed Jun 24 12:41:05
Germany is scrapping plans to build 6 destroyer sized F126 "frigates" and will instead build 8 of the much smaller F128 frigates.

For comparison, the F126 was to be larger than the US Arleigh Burke class destroyer ... while the F128 is smaller than the National Security Coast Guard cutter than the US is fashioning into a laughably inadequate frigate.

The F128 is ~ 1/3 the size of the F126.

-

Paramount
rank Wed Jun 24 16:36:49
Money problems?

Inferiority complex? Afraid to rival the daddy US?

jergul
rank Wed Jun 24 16:55:23
According to wiki? Stopgap. F128 give more time for developers to sort out issues with th F126

jergul
rank Wed Jun 24 16:57:25
Or looking elsewhere on wiki:

"On 24 June 2026 Bundeswehr officially announced that the project is cancelled due to "enormous cost increases and incalculable risks". [52] The planned six F126 frigates will be replaced by 8 MEKO A-200-DEU frigates. The Ministry of Defense stated that the general contractor, Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (DSNS) could not guarantee the scheduling and financial parameters for the F126 project.[53]"

Sam Adams
rank Wed Jun 24 18:21:52
Lol.

"Eurip can take care of itself durrr"

Sebs and nevilles

jergul
rank Wed Jun 24 19:08:27
Sammy
You have failed on ship designs too in a similar way.

Sam Adams
rank Wed Jun 24 20:37:16
Durrrrrr

Lol euroclowns.

Just buy/license burkes like Japan and south Korea. You'll get a vastly superior ship for vastly less money, since you know 101 have already been built or are under construction.

And Neville they can... You know... Fight submarines...

Lol

Seb
rank Wed Jun 24 21:31:43
It had become outdated - they wanted an ASW specialist that could also act as a multirole frigate that could be deployed for up to two years without maintenance in port (crew would rotate).

Going for smaller ASW specialists makes more sense with the focus shifting to the Baltics, North sea and North Atlantic; and technology shifting to unmanned sloops and drones

Seb
rank Wed Jun 24 21:33:22
Burkes have bloated manpower requirements and aren't as good at ASW as a dedicated platform.

Seb
rank Wed Jun 24 21:36:24
There's about 33 MEKO 200s with various operators also. Hardly like they've done a constellation class.

Seb
rank Thu Jun 25 11:10:01
A larger number of mission optimised ships which are smaller and nimble makes sense.

Also the fact that it is smaller than these new US frigates means little. The issue with FF(X) is it was under armed.

The F-128 outguns it with a 32 cell vls Vs 16 NSM canisters, higher calibre main gun, torpedo tubes (it's ASW after all) despite being smaller.

Seb
rank Thu Jun 25 11:13:26
The result will be higher availability and coverage of ASW operations, which is what Germany needs from its ASW squadron.

Not ships designed to do multi-role with a major in ASW and provide force projection by sustaining two years of ops without major in port maintenance.

Habebe
rank Thu Jun 25 16:13:13
So it looks like the supplier (Damen) repeatedly came in over budget and missing deadlines.

In order to meet their NATO requirements they opted for this instead, faster, cheaper and hopefully easier to fulfill.

Sam Adams
rank Thu Jun 25 21:37:24
"Burkes have bloated manpower requirements and aren't as good at ASW as a dedicated platform."

Burkes are still cheaper per unit of ability than anything you could hope to make. By far.

Seb
rank Thu Jun 25 22:55:10
Yeah, that is why they are winning so many export contracts at the moment.

The US has not designed a decent surface combatant in decades: Zumwalt, LCS, Constellation, FF(X)... all it can do is churn out Burkes with 1990's era levels of automation - with spiral development kit bolted on. Hence the bloated crew requirements.

Sam Adams
rank Thu Jun 25 23:45:51
"that is why they are winning so many export contracts at the moment."

The 14 built or building in Japan/Korea is I believe the largest order of medium or larger warships in a single class ever exported.

I think those 14 are also a larger class of medium or larger warships than any built by Europe since the last large class of 74 gun ships of the line ending in around 1820.

Lol@poor nonindustrial nations trying to compete.

Sam Adams
rank Thu Jun 25 23:53:16
"The US has not designed a decent surface combatant in decades:"

Yes because we are incrementally improving the burke which is 95% as good and much much cheaper.

It's the same reason that when moohammed flies back hope to avoid yet another rape charge using your tax dollars, he does so on a 737 or a320.

Seb
rank Fri Jun 26 00:11:31
Sam:

If we are just aggregating Japan and South Korea, which while being 13 units are essentially 3 different classes, it's still not even close.

The MEKO 200 we discussed above has over 30 export orders.

There type-26 ASW frigate you thought was dumb has 15 units exported to Canada alone with 11 more for Australian and Norway.

The FREMM frigate that was going to be the constellation class before the USN fucked it up has over 30 ships in class after French and US cancellations.

Sam Adams
rank Fri Jun 26 00:26:38
I love the incompetence.

First off, the burke is a proper surface combatant capable of all forms of combat and global endurance. The meko is a baby escort with 1/3rd the mass and 1/10th the firepower. Not to mention inferior radar/sonar computers. They are not nearly in the same class. Our coast guard cutters are bigger.

And secondly, you are bitching about crew efficiency while you cram 200+ souls into the baby meko(almost as uncomfortable as a ww2 fletcher) while the vastly more capable burke needs just 40% more men.

Lol I love how you are always wrong about everything.

Sam Adams
rank Fri Jun 26 00:28:18
"before the USN fucked it up"

You mean properly cancelled in exchange for more burkes which have a much greater ability per dollar.

Seb
rank Fri Jun 26 00:58:55
NaMBLA:

And yet AB hasn't been selected in any procurement competition since the early 2000's.

ok, you don't like the Meko as it's too small: FREMM, Type 26?

"Not to mention inferior radar/sonar computers"
Lol idiot. Half the MEKOs are fitted with the US AEGIS system.

Seb
rank Fri Jun 26 01:00:41
"Our coast guard cutters are bigger."

But as I pointed out, less well armed, with half the missile capacity, a significantly lower calibre gun and a worse sensor package.

I guess that really underlines the point I was making about FF(X).

Sam Adams
rank Fri Jun 26 01:48:39
A 7000-8000 ton boat with 16 or 32 vls cells? Retarded. Literally.

Seb
rank Fri Jun 26 08:43:14
Plenty for self defence. The primary mission is ASW.

This is why AB's suck at sub hunting: too busy being a guided missile destroyer. It's too loud to do that effectively.

And also why T-26 has more orders than ABs.

Seb
rank Fri Jun 26 08:46:52
BTW, if you want more VLS T-26, one of the, modular mission bays can accommodate a further 64 mk41 cells brining it to to 96 - same as an AB.

Mostly though, for ASW configuration you want the mission bays instead.

jergul
rank Fri Jun 26 10:06:33
16 or 32 just understands the realities. Its not like you have anything close to a missile for every cell in the navy dummy.

murder
rank Fri Jun 26 11:14:14

"A 7000-8000 ton boat with 16 or 32 vls cells? Retarded."

I think it's ~ 4500 tons.

-

Seb
rank Fri Jun 26 12:44:04
Murder:

He's talking about the Type-26 frigate now, or possibly the FREMM, though the latter is more like 5-6kt. But the T-26 variants all have more than 16 VLS so he may be mixing attributes of the two up.

He is easily confused.

show deleted posts

murder rank	Wed Jun 24 12:41:05 Germany is scrapping plans to build 6 destroyer sized F126 "frigates" and will instead build 8 of the much smaller F128 frigates. For comparison, the F126 was to be larger than the US Arleigh Burke class destroyer ... while the F128 is smaller than the National Security Coast Guard cutter than the US is fashioning into a laughably inadequate frigate. The F128 is ~ 1/3 the size of the F126. -
Paramount rank	Wed Jun 24 16:36:49 Money problems? Inferiority complex? Afraid to rival the daddy US?
jergul rank	Wed Jun 24 16:55:23 According to wiki? Stopgap. F128 give more time for developers to sort out issues with th F126
jergul rank	Wed Jun 24 16:57:25 Or looking elsewhere on wiki: "On 24 June 2026 Bundeswehr officially announced that the project is cancelled due to "enormous cost increases and incalculable risks". [52] The planned six F126 frigates will be replaced by 8 MEKO A-200-DEU frigates. The Ministry of Defense stated that the general contractor, Damen Schelde Naval Shipbuilding (DSNS) could not guarantee the scheduling and financial parameters for the F126 project.[53]"
Sam Adams rank	Wed Jun 24 18:21:52 Lol. "Eurip can take care of itself durrr" Sebs and nevilles
jergul rank	Wed Jun 24 19:08:27 Sammy You have failed on ship designs too in a similar way.
Sam Adams rank	Wed Jun 24 20:37:16 Durrrrrr Lol euroclowns. Just buy/license burkes like Japan and south Korea. You'll get a vastly superior ship for vastly less money, since you know 101 have already been built or are under construction. And Neville they can... You know... Fight submarines... Lol
Seb rank	Wed Jun 24 21:31:43 It had become outdated - they wanted an ASW specialist that could also act as a multirole frigate that could be deployed for up to two years without maintenance in port (crew would rotate). Going for smaller ASW specialists makes more sense with the focus shifting to the Baltics, North sea and North Atlantic; and technology shifting to unmanned sloops and drones
Seb rank	Wed Jun 24 21:33:22 Burkes have bloated manpower requirements and aren't as good at ASW as a dedicated platform.
Seb rank	Wed Jun 24 21:36:24 There's about 33 MEKO 200s with various operators also. Hardly like they've done a constellation class.
Seb rank	Thu Jun 25 11:10:01 A larger number of mission optimised ships which are smaller and nimble makes sense. Also the fact that it is smaller than these new US frigates means little. The issue with FF(X) is it was under armed. The F-128 outguns it with a 32 cell vls Vs 16 NSM canisters, higher calibre main gun, torpedo tubes (it's ASW after all) despite being smaller.
Seb rank	Thu Jun 25 11:13:26 The result will be higher availability and coverage of ASW operations, which is what Germany needs from its ASW squadron. Not ships designed to do multi-role with a major in ASW and provide force projection by sustaining two years of ops without major in port maintenance.
Habebe rank	Thu Jun 25 16:13:13 So it looks like the supplier (Damen) repeatedly came in over budget and missing deadlines. In order to meet their NATO requirements they opted for this instead, faster, cheaper and hopefully easier to fulfill.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Jun 25 21:37:24 "Burkes have bloated manpower requirements and aren't as good at ASW as a dedicated platform." Burkes are still cheaper per unit of ability than anything you could hope to make. By far.
Seb rank	Thu Jun 25 22:55:10 Yeah, that is why they are winning so many export contracts at the moment. The US has not designed a decent surface combatant in decades: Zumwalt, LCS, Constellation, FF(X)... all it can do is churn out Burkes with 1990's era levels of automation - with spiral development kit bolted on. Hence the bloated crew requirements.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Jun 25 23:45:51 "that is why they are winning so many export contracts at the moment." The 14 built or building in Japan/Korea is I believe the largest order of medium or larger warships in a single class ever exported. I think those 14 are also a larger class of medium or larger warships than any built by Europe since the last large class of 74 gun ships of the line ending in around 1820. Lol@poor nonindustrial nations trying to compete.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Jun 25 23:53:16 "The US has not designed a decent surface combatant in decades:" Yes because we are incrementally improving the burke which is 95% as good and much much cheaper. It's the same reason that when moohammed flies back hope to avoid yet another rape charge using your tax dollars, he does so on a 737 or a320.
Seb rank	Fri Jun 26 00:11:31 Sam: If we are just aggregating Japan and South Korea, which while being 13 units are essentially 3 different classes, it's still not even close. The MEKO 200 we discussed above has over 30 export orders. There type-26 ASW frigate you thought was dumb has 15 units exported to Canada alone with 11 more for Australian and Norway. The FREMM frigate that was going to be the constellation class before the USN fucked it up has over 30 ships in class after French and US cancellations.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jun 26 00:26:38 I love the incompetence. First off, the burke is a proper surface combatant capable of all forms of combat and global endurance. The meko is a baby escort with 1/3rd the mass and 1/10th the firepower. Not to mention inferior radar/sonar computers. They are not nearly in the same class. Our coast guard cutters are bigger. And secondly, you are bitching about crew efficiency while you cram 200+ souls into the baby meko(almost as uncomfortable as a ww2 fletcher) while the vastly more capable burke needs just 40% more men. Lol I love how you are always wrong about everything.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jun 26 00:28:18 "before the USN fucked it up" You mean properly cancelled in exchange for more burkes which have a much greater ability per dollar.
Seb rank	Fri Jun 26 00:58:55 NaMBLA: And yet AB hasn't been selected in any procurement competition since the early 2000's. ok, you don't like the Meko as it's too small: FREMM, Type 26? "Not to mention inferior radar/sonar computers" Lol idiot. Half the MEKOs are fitted with the US AEGIS system.
Seb rank	Fri Jun 26 01:00:41 "Our coast guard cutters are bigger." But as I pointed out, less well armed, with half the missile capacity, a significantly lower calibre gun and a worse sensor package. I guess that really underlines the point I was making about FF(X).
Sam Adams rank	Fri Jun 26 01:48:39 A 7000-8000 ton boat with 16 or 32 vls cells? Retarded. Literally.
Seb rank	Fri Jun 26 08:43:14 Plenty for self defence. The primary mission is ASW. This is why AB's suck at sub hunting: too busy being a guided missile destroyer. It's too loud to do that effectively. And also why T-26 has more orders than ABs.
Seb rank	Fri Jun 26 08:46:52 BTW, if you want more VLS T-26, one of the, modular mission bays can accommodate a further 64 mk41 cells brining it to to 96 - same as an AB. Mostly though, for ASW configuration you want the mission bays instead.
jergul rank	Fri Jun 26 10:06:33 16 or 32 just understands the realities. Its not like you have anything close to a missile for every cell in the navy dummy.
murder rank	Fri Jun 26 11:14:14 "A 7000-8000 ton boat with 16 or 32 vls cells? Retarded." I think it's ~ 4500 tons. -
Seb rank	Fri Jun 26 12:44:04 Murder: He's talking about the Type-26 frigate now, or possibly the FREMM, though the latter is more like 5-6kt. But the T-26 variants all have more than 16 VLS so he may be mixing attributes of the two up. He is easily confused.
	show deleted posts

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