Utopia Talk - Politics - US again threatens allies

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Utopia Talk / Politics / US again threatens allies

Seb
rank Fri Apr 24 10:58:07
Apparently the US is threatening to reverse its position on the Falklands to support Argentina.

That doesn't really matter, I think. But it just shows how the US can't be trusted or relied on and why Europe needs to be further cutting ties with the US.

williamthebastard
rank Fri Apr 24 11:12:16
I wish Trump would have a couple more apoplexy fits over invading greenland or something, just to silence the last remaining rightwingers in Europe who are stopping us from finally cutting all ties with the US

williamthebastard
rank Fri Apr 24 11:24:31
Greenland would be a perfect battleground for us. Every inch booby-trapped by now, too very awkward area to land larger forces, no civilian casualties, smash their glass jaw, send them home in shock and dismay cut off from everyone to ruminate on their errors

Sam Adams
rank Fri Apr 24 12:08:30
"Europe needs to be further cutting ties with the US."

We've been over this seb. You are cowards. You are going to keep outsourcing your defense to the US for as long as you can.

jergul
rank Fri Apr 24 12:25:06
Sammy, your military is built on the concepts of cowardice and casualty aversion.

I admit that we need to come to grips with casualties in the range of 1k a day against any near peer adversary, so we have to focus both on lethality so we can inflict the same level and robustness so we can sustain such losses indefinitely.

You? You run out of options the moment you run out of long range smart weapons. Cowards.

jergul
rank Fri Apr 24 12:26:04
Could you even imagine accepting 1k casualties a day for months or years? You see? Coward.

Seb
rank Fri Apr 24 12:44:25
NaMBLA:

From the same school of thought that brought you "Japanese will never be able to fly planes because of their slitty eyes".

williamthebastard
rank Fri Apr 24 13:02:42
Tne US is suffering greatly from ivory tower syndrome and probably can only be brought back to reality again by getting their nose bloodied. Theyre like a pop star who couldnt handle fame and now demands to be allowed to push and shove their way through any crowd and get extraordinary treatment, while the crowd is increasingly going "who the fuck does she think she is?"

Getting smacked around in Greenland, leading them to isolation and to get on with setting their own country back 40 years in their own civil war would do them a lot of good.

murder
rank Fri Apr 24 13:42:01

"Apparently the US is threatening to reverse its position on the Falklands to support Argentina."

Just remind Argentina that you have nukes and are overdue for a test.

-

Habebe
rank Fri Apr 24 15:02:11
So, it's a threat to say we MAY no longer support colonial claims to territory of allies?

Rugian
rank Fri Apr 24 15:19:52
Yeah this is a stupid thread title.

"Oh no, the US is THREATENING to not give you free security guarantees for your imperial overseas possessions!"

Wow, the country that has held a policy of global decolonization since WWII isn't going to help you over the Falklands. The horror.

Fun fact: statistically, there are more Falklands citizens who support reunion with Argentina than there are Chagos inhabitants who support annexation to Mauritius.

But don't expect any consistency from Seb on this topic.

Seb
rank Fri Apr 24 15:32:16
Rugian:

Falklands isn't covered by any security guarantee. It wasn't in 1982 when you tried to force us to negotiate with the invader, and it isn't now; and we really don't need any "guarantee".

And that isn't what the US is doing, it's threatening to take the view that the territory and the people living there are subject to Argentinian sovereignty.

This is like the UK supporting the increasing view among Russian nationalists that Alaska wasn't really sold to the US and it's actually occupied.

Seb
rank Fri Apr 24 15:40:06
"Fun fact: statistically, there are more Falklands citizens who support reunion with Argentina than there are Chagos inhabitants who support annexation to Mauritius."

Which is irrelevant.

The Falklands was not artificially cut out of a British colony to retain independence. It was separate from Argentina since before Argentinian independence from Spain.

The Chagos islands were part of the colony of Mauritius (the two having been annexed together by the French) and the issue is the UK artificially separated them for the specific purposes of retaining control over the Chagos Islands.

We would be on more solid ground if we had established the split on the basis Chagosans did not want to be part of Mauritius; but the deal we struck with the US required us to depot all the Chagosans, many *to* Mauritius which creates a bit of a problem as it both establishes that at the time we did consider it part of Mauritius (why relocate the population there otherwise) and also establishes the separation wasn't based on self determination. It's now pretty hard to base a separation on principles self-determination having removed any resident population that you'd base that on.

By creating the "perfect" base by creating a territory with no population, its pretty hard to establish anything other than "you are occupying a bunch of natural resources that rightfully belong to an existing state".

Hrothgar
rank Fri Apr 24 15:51:31
This entire thread has Putin laughing. Trump has (probably) obliviously achieved his Russian objectives so perfectly.

Hrothgar
rank Fri Apr 24 15:56:10
Also, I'm almost certain any war for Greenland would have half the American population wanting to fight for Europe, including most of largest, most populous states. It would be hugely destabilizing beyond even the current flailing US nation state, and with the right spark states would ally with Europe.

Seb
rank Fri Apr 24 16:02:47
Hrothgar:

It does, and while Putin certainly ruthlessly exploited the cracks and flaws in US society, the problem is that a significant chunk of the US is fine with that because they see their interests as more closely aligned with Putin and Russia than their domestic political opponents.

I would rather remain an Atlantacist as I had been all my life but honestly that's just not possible until the US sorts itself out - and by that I explicitly do not mean "elects a party I'm more ideologically in tune with"; I mean something more akin to "reconstitutes itself into such a way it is a polity capable of pursuing a sufficiently predictable and sustained foreign policy that it makes sense to engage with".

Seb
rank Fri Apr 24 16:06:45
Any genuinely serious country would have ejected the trump admin one way or another - until the US stays taking itself seriously it's difficult to imagine other countries taking it seriously as a partner to engage with rather than a random event generator to be managed.

williamthebastard
rank Fri Apr 24 16:14:46
High probability of a failed war in Greenland leading to civil war in the USA, generals refusing orders and even sabotage from high level officers, as well as outrage amongst roughly half the country - couple that with potential high losses and ensuing demoralization and the US will be teetering on the brink.

Habebe
rank Fri Apr 24 17:35:00
This seems like a big ol nothing burger...

Sam Adams
rank Fri Apr 24 18:14:26
"From the same school of thought that brought you "Japanese will never be able to fly planes because of their slitty eyes"."

What a completely retarded disjointed and utterly unconnected thought.

No, your cowardess is shown by your actions statements and that of all your nations and all your leaders for the last 30 years. For example, you in particular have not shown a single moment of moral fortitude, thus it is extremely unlikely you could ever do so in the future. Perhaps if reform wins your country will be able to show some spine. But never you.

jergul
rank Fri Apr 24 20:03:53
Sammy, the French have lost almost as many men as you have as you hide away in the Indian Ocean, Red Sea and Med like the cowards you are. What is with you MAGATARDS and projection?

jergul
rank Fri Apr 24 20:05:21
Why? Because the French have boots on the ground and flesh in a game that just amounts to documenting Israeli attrocities really.

jergul
rank Fri Apr 24 20:08:56
Never mind that you started this war in the most cowardly was imaginable in a sneak attack during negotiations right up there with 9-11 or pearl harbour, your military doctrines rotate around fighting as unfairly as organizationally possible...

...And you think other people are the cowards? So dishonorable. You coward.

Sam Adams
rank Fri Apr 24 20:12:21
Lol the mind of a butthurt Soviet.

jergul
rank Fri Apr 24 20:14:44
Lol the mind of a butthurt dishonourable cowardly Magatard.

Pillz
rank Fri Apr 24 23:45:20
Given that Argentina is a second Israel and a refuge to Nazis, Trump supporting Argentina makes sense.

Maybe you can defend the islands from Argentina seb, but can you defend them from Trump?

murder
rank Sat Apr 25 02:08:50

"That doesn't really matter, I think. But it just shows how the US can't be trusted or relied on and why Europe needs to be further cutting ties with the US."

Why doesn't the UK just kick us out of our bases in the UK? What do you guys get out of that arrangement anyway?

-

Sam Adams
rank Sat Apr 25 05:02:23
"What do you guys get out of that arrangement anyway?"

The protection of big brother.

Otherwise seb would have to man up..... Lolololol

Forwyn
rank Sat Apr 25 06:07:16
Poor Seb still loves his most distant colony.

It gives his brown girlfriend an excuse to peg him and call him a colonizer

jergul
rank Sat Apr 25 11:13:11
I think the term in American "territorial possessions" You have a shitload of them. Not counting bases with US jurisdiction.

show deleted posts

Seb rank	Fri Apr 24 10:58:07 Apparently the US is threatening to reverse its position on the Falklands to support Argentina. That doesn't really matter, I think. But it just shows how the US can't be trusted or relied on and why Europe needs to be further cutting ties with the US.
williamthebastard rank	Fri Apr 24 11:12:16 I wish Trump would have a couple more apoplexy fits over invading greenland or something, just to silence the last remaining rightwingers in Europe who are stopping us from finally cutting all ties with the US
williamthebastard rank	Fri Apr 24 11:24:31 Greenland would be a perfect battleground for us. Every inch booby-trapped by now, too very awkward area to land larger forces, no civilian casualties, smash their glass jaw, send them home in shock and dismay cut off from everyone to ruminate on their errors
Sam Adams rank	Fri Apr 24 12:08:30 "Europe needs to be further cutting ties with the US." We've been over this seb. You are cowards. You are going to keep outsourcing your defense to the US for as long as you can.
jergul rank	Fri Apr 24 12:25:06 Sammy, your military is built on the concepts of cowardice and casualty aversion. I admit that we need to come to grips with casualties in the range of 1k a day against any near peer adversary, so we have to focus both on lethality so we can inflict the same level and robustness so we can sustain such losses indefinitely. You? You run out of options the moment you run out of long range smart weapons. Cowards.
jergul rank	Fri Apr 24 12:26:04 Could you even imagine accepting 1k casualties a day for months or years? You see? Coward.
Seb rank	Fri Apr 24 12:44:25 NaMBLA: From the same school of thought that brought you "Japanese will never be able to fly planes because of their slitty eyes".
williamthebastard rank	Fri Apr 24 13:02:42 Tne US is suffering greatly from ivory tower syndrome and probably can only be brought back to reality again by getting their nose bloodied. Theyre like a pop star who couldnt handle fame and now demands to be allowed to push and shove their way through any crowd and get extraordinary treatment, while the crowd is increasingly going "who the fuck does she think she is?" Getting smacked around in Greenland, leading them to isolation and to get on with setting their own country back 40 years in their own civil war would do them a lot of good.
murder rank	Fri Apr 24 13:42:01 "Apparently the US is threatening to reverse its position on the Falklands to support Argentina." Just remind Argentina that you have nukes and are overdue for a test. -
Habebe rank	Fri Apr 24 15:02:11 So, it's a threat to say we MAY no longer support colonial claims to territory of allies?
Rugian rank	Fri Apr 24 15:19:52 Yeah this is a stupid thread title. "Oh no, the US is THREATENING to not give you free security guarantees for your imperial overseas possessions!" Wow, the country that has held a policy of global decolonization since WWII isn't going to help you over the Falklands. The horror. Fun fact: statistically, there are more Falklands citizens who support reunion with Argentina than there are Chagos inhabitants who support annexation to Mauritius. But don't expect any consistency from Seb on this topic.
Seb rank	Fri Apr 24 15:32:16 Rugian: Falklands isn't covered by any security guarantee. It wasn't in 1982 when you tried to force us to negotiate with the invader, and it isn't now; and we really don't need any "guarantee". And that isn't what the US is doing, it's threatening to take the view that the territory and the people living there are subject to Argentinian sovereignty. This is like the UK supporting the increasing view among Russian nationalists that Alaska wasn't really sold to the US and it's actually occupied.
Seb rank	Fri Apr 24 15:40:06 "Fun fact: statistically, there are more Falklands citizens who support reunion with Argentina than there are Chagos inhabitants who support annexation to Mauritius." Which is irrelevant. The Falklands was not artificially cut out of a British colony to retain independence. It was separate from Argentina since before Argentinian independence from Spain. The Chagos islands were part of the colony of Mauritius (the two having been annexed together by the French) and the issue is the UK artificially separated them for the specific purposes of retaining control over the Chagos Islands. We would be on more solid ground if we had established the split on the basis Chagosans did not want to be part of Mauritius; but the deal we struck with the US required us to depot all the Chagosans, many to Mauritius which creates a bit of a problem as it both establishes that at the time we did consider it part of Mauritius (why relocate the population there otherwise) and also establishes the separation wasn't based on self determination. It's now pretty hard to base a separation on principles self-determination having removed any resident population that you'd base that on. By creating the "perfect" base by creating a territory with no population, its pretty hard to establish anything other than "you are occupying a bunch of natural resources that rightfully belong to an existing state".
Hrothgar rank	Fri Apr 24 15:51:31 This entire thread has Putin laughing. Trump has (probably) obliviously achieved his Russian objectives so perfectly.
Hrothgar rank	Fri Apr 24 15:56:10 Also, I'm almost certain any war for Greenland would have half the American population wanting to fight for Europe, including most of largest, most populous states. It would be hugely destabilizing beyond even the current flailing US nation state, and with the right spark states would ally with Europe.
Seb rank	Fri Apr 24 16:02:47 Hrothgar: It does, and while Putin certainly ruthlessly exploited the cracks and flaws in US society, the problem is that a significant chunk of the US is fine with that because they see their interests as more closely aligned with Putin and Russia than their domestic political opponents. I would rather remain an Atlantacist as I had been all my life but honestly that's just not possible until the US sorts itself out - and by that I explicitly do not mean "elects a party I'm more ideologically in tune with"; I mean something more akin to "reconstitutes itself into such a way it is a polity capable of pursuing a sufficiently predictable and sustained foreign policy that it makes sense to engage with".
Seb rank	Fri Apr 24 16:06:45 Any genuinely serious country would have ejected the trump admin one way or another - until the US stays taking itself seriously it's difficult to imagine other countries taking it seriously as a partner to engage with rather than a random event generator to be managed.
williamthebastard rank	Fri Apr 24 16:14:46 High probability of a failed war in Greenland leading to civil war in the USA, generals refusing orders and even sabotage from high level officers, as well as outrage amongst roughly half the country - couple that with potential high losses and ensuing demoralization and the US will be teetering on the brink.
Habebe rank	Fri Apr 24 17:35:00 This seems like a big ol nothing burger...
Sam Adams rank	Fri Apr 24 18:14:26 "From the same school of thought that brought you "Japanese will never be able to fly planes because of their slitty eyes"." What a completely retarded disjointed and utterly unconnected thought. No, your cowardess is shown by your actions statements and that of all your nations and all your leaders for the last 30 years. For example, you in particular have not shown a single moment of moral fortitude, thus it is extremely unlikely you could ever do so in the future. Perhaps if reform wins your country will be able to show some spine. But never you.
jergul rank	Fri Apr 24 20:03:53 Sammy, the French have lost almost as many men as you have as you hide away in the Indian Ocean, Red Sea and Med like the cowards you are. What is with you MAGATARDS and projection?
jergul rank	Fri Apr 24 20:05:21 Why? Because the French have boots on the ground and flesh in a game that just amounts to documenting Israeli attrocities really.
jergul rank	Fri Apr 24 20:08:56 Never mind that you started this war in the most cowardly was imaginable in a sneak attack during negotiations right up there with 9-11 or pearl harbour, your military doctrines rotate around fighting as unfairly as organizationally possible... ...And you think other people are the cowards? So dishonorable. You coward.
Sam Adams rank	Fri Apr 24 20:12:21 Lol the mind of a butthurt Soviet.
jergul rank	Fri Apr 24 20:14:44 Lol the mind of a butthurt dishonourable cowardly Magatard.
Pillz rank	Fri Apr 24 23:45:20 Given that Argentina is a second Israel and a refuge to Nazis, Trump supporting Argentina makes sense. Maybe you can defend the islands from Argentina seb, but can you defend them from Trump?
murder rank	Sat Apr 25 02:08:50 "That doesn't really matter, I think. But it just shows how the US can't be trusted or relied on and why Europe needs to be further cutting ties with the US." Why doesn't the UK just kick us out of our bases in the UK? What do you guys get out of that arrangement anyway? -
Sam Adams rank	Sat Apr 25 05:02:23 "What do you guys get out of that arrangement anyway?" The protection of big brother. Otherwise seb would have to man up..... Lolololol
Forwyn rank	Sat Apr 25 06:07:16 Poor Seb still loves his most distant colony. It gives his brown girlfriend an excuse to peg him and call him a colonizer
jergul rank	Sat Apr 25 11:13:11 I think the term in American "territorial possessions" You have a shitload of them. Not counting bases with US jurisdiction.
	show deleted posts

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