Utopia Talk / Politics / Europe planning NATO minus USA

williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 15 08:37:01 http://www...lans-3a423233?mod=hp_lead_pos1 Europe Is Accelerating a NATO Fallback Plan in Case Trump Pulls Out The Continent is drawing up a contingency for greater European involvement as tensions rise over Iran war A fallback plan to ensure Europe can defend itself using NATO’s existing military structures if the U.S. departs is gaining traction after getting buy-in from Germany, a long-term opponent of a go-it-alone approach. The officials working on the plans, which some officials are referring to as “European NATO,” are seeking to get more Europeans into the alliance’s command-and-control roles and supplement U.S. military assets with their own.
tumbleweed rank	Wed Apr 15 08:46:13 probably wise as certainly Trump is a worthless 'ally' for his term, but Congress passed a law that the president can't withdraw on his own (done specifically because of idiot boy) & i don't think this is a thing he can sway the 'party' into accepting... his bullshit claims of NATO never being there for us is one of his several bullshit comments that you don't see the 'party' broadly repeating
murder rank	Wed Apr 15 08:48:09 Trump is the type that says that he's going to pull out and then doesn't. -
Habebe rank	Wed Apr 15 15:00:59 The problem with this is Europe assumes it has a military. All jokes aside, Europe has pieces of a military.
obaminated rank	Wed Apr 15 18:38:18 The purpose of nato was to counter the ussr. The ussr doesn't exist. Leaving nato wouldn't be that terrible for us. It isn't like western Europe is gonna run into Russian arms.
williamthebastard rank	Wed Apr 15 20:08:21 The day the US picks a fight for the first time with modern armies that arent 1% the size of the US military or smaller, as is always the case, will be a really bad day for the US. Because after a week, the world's media will be full of the same news that the world recently realized about Russia: Highly overrated - while US media will be full of articles about people tearing their hair out at various failures. That'll demoralize the entire country.
Sam Adams rank	Thu Apr 16 00:30:14 Lol. This is like planning an orgy without chicks.
Pillz rank	Thu Apr 16 01:10:14 Something Sam and wtb have in common, and each has lots of experience organizing and participating in male orgies
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 16 03:49:40 Sam, I feel like alot of Euros do that.
williamthebastard rank	Thu Apr 16 03:51:48 and also that half of its trillions of US tax dollars of equipment has been rendered useless by not having any allies to have intermediate bases to ship to, and outdated by £2000 drones
williamthebastard rank	Thu Apr 16 03:58:02 We only ever see the US picking on 3rd world countries 1% its size using 50 year old Soviet equipment, and Houti street gangs whose army consist of 50 street thugs, 4 rubber dinghies and 2 RPG-7s lol. Wait til they meet a pissed off Germany again, who killed half a million Americans last time while simultaneously fighting 22 other countries all over the globe.
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 16 04:10:14 Idk if Id say its rendered useless. Again compare the damage done to Iran and the damage done to the US....
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 16 04:14:53 I'll search for information about the damages Iran has sustained in Operation Epic Fury since it began in late February 2026. Based on the search results, here's a comprehensive overview of the damages Iran has sustained since Operation Epic Fury began on February 28, 2026: Human Casualties As of April 7, Human Rights Activists in Iran documented 3,636 deaths (Wikipedia) in Iran, including 1,701 civilians, 1,221 military personnel, and 714 unclassified. Other sources report varying totals, with one tracker citing 1,937 killed and 24,800 injured (WarCosts) . At least 15% of casualties have been under age 18 (Wikipedia) . Military Losses Naval Destruction: The Iranian Navy has been devastated. U.S. officials reported destroying 30-plus ships and cutting missile attack capabilities by 90% (Fox News) . In the first 10 days alone, 50 Iranian vessels were damaged or destroyed (Defense) . By March 4th, 20 Iranian naval vessels including one submarine were sunk or critically damaged, including the Shahidi Soleimani and the IRIS Shahid Bagheri drone carrier (Defense-Update) . Overall Targets: Over 5,000 targets were struck in the first 10 days (Defense) , with sources later reporting over 10,000 military targets hit overall. Infrastructure Damage Nuclear Facilities: Iran's nuclear program has suffered severe setbacks. At Natanz, the aboveground pilot fuel enrichment plant was destroyed, and damage was confirmed at Isfahan's chemical laboratory, uranium conversion plant, and fuel manufacturing facilities (ANS) . The IAEA confirmed damage at entrance buildings to Natanz's underground fuel enrichment plant (Al Jazeera) , though no radiological consequences were expected (Al Jazeera) . Industrial Sites: The Mobarakeh Steel Company completely halted production after attacks destroyed key units (gCaptain) . At least 120 historical sites have been damaged (Wikipedia) . Energy Infrastructure: Dozens of refineries, oil fields, gas plants, and ports have been damaged across the region. Economic Impact Iran claims total repair costs could reach upward of $270 billion (Washington Times) . The conflict has had massive regional economic effects, with 21 million barrels per day of oil halted (WarCosts) due to Iran's blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. Strategic Losses Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei was killed in the opening strike on February 28 (Wikipedia) (Flashpoint) , along with several high officials. Multiple IRGC commanders have been killed, including IRGC Navy commander Alireza Tangsiri, architect of the Strait of Hormuz blockade (WarCosts) . A ceasefire was announced around Day 39-40 (early April), though the situation remains fluid.
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 16 04:17:53 I'll search for comprehensive information about US damages and losses in Operation Epic Fury. Based on the search results, here's a comprehensive overview of US damages in Operation Epic Fury: Human Casualties As of April 8 (Day 40), 13 (Military Times) U.S. service members were killed and 381 wounded. Of the fatalities, 7 were Army deaths (all hostile), and 6 were Air Force deaths (all non-hostile, from the KC-135 crash) (Wionews) . Of the wounded, 344 have returned to duty (Military Times) . Major incidents include: Six servicemembers killed in a drone attack at Port Shuaiba, Kuwait on March 1 (JINSA) Sgt. Benjamin Pennington killed in a March 8 Iranian attack on Prince Sultan Air Base (JINSA) Six airmen killed when a KC-135 refueling aircraft crashed in western Iraq on March 12 (Wikipedia) Aircraft Losses The most comprehensive accounting shows 39 aircraft lost during the 39-day operation, with another 10 damaged to various degrees (The War Zone) . Another source estimates up to 24 MQ-9 Reaper drones destroyed—roughly 60% of total attrition (MiGFlug.com) . Confirmed losses include: 4 F-15E Strike Eagles, 8 KC-135 tankers, 2 E-3D AWACS aircraft, possibly 1 F-35, 1 A-10, 2 AH-6 helicopters, and at least 16 MQ-9 drones (Airforce Technology) An F-35A Lightning II hit by Iranian ground fire—the first confirmed combat damage to a fifth-generation stealth fighter (The National Interest) Three American F-15Es shot down by a Kuwaiti F/A-18 in a friendly fire incident on March 2, though all six crew members survived (Wikipedia) Base and Infrastructure Damage Iran's attacks caused $800 million in damage to US bases within the first two weeks (Wikipedia) , and many bases have been rendered "all but uninhabitable" (Wikipedia) . Affected bases include: Al-Sader and Al-Ruwais bases in the UAE, the naval base in Bahrain, Ali Al-Salem in Kuwait, Al-Udeid in Qatar, and Prince Sultan in Saudi Arabia (Wikipedia) Specific damage: An E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft damaged in a March 27 attack on Prince Sultan Air Base (Defense News) Five KC-135 Stratotanker refueling aircraft damaged on March 13 (Defense News) The AN/TPY-2 radar for a THAAD battery at Jordan's Muwaffaq Salti Air Base was struck and destroyed (Defense News) USS Gerald R. Ford suffered a severe fire in its laundry room, requiring withdrawal from combat operations and repair in Europe (The National Interest) Economic Costs Estimates vary widely: AEI estimates incremental costs of $25-35 billion as of the April 8 ceasefire (AEI) The Pentagon briefed Congress on $11.3 billion for the first six days, with approximately $1 billion/day ongoing (Iran-cost-ticker) CSIS estimated $3.7 billion for the first 100 hours alone (Center for Strategic and International Studies) Aircraft damage alone exceeded $3 billion (Airforce Technology) The operation involved more than 13,000 sorties (The War Zone) over the 39-day period before the ceasefire.
williamthebastard rank	Thu Apr 16 04:20:34 Yeah, a 3rd world army 1% the US' size and the country is still managing to make Trump have 10-year-old girl tantrums lol
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 16 05:09:44 Backed and logistic supports by Russia and China and again....the numbers speak for themselves. Agin clearly, I see your point I wouldn't count Iran as mighty of a military as say China. Its basically missiles and drones for a reason, affordable and effective.
Habebe rank	Thu Apr 16 14:57:05 It also helps that we have two.giant oceans on either side, so unless you have a sizeable Navy your basically stuck.
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