Utopia Talk / Politics / the great appeasers are talking

Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 15:21:39 Lol this moron isn't just talking. Hes talking about a plan for future talking. Like multistage talking. https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/2043628699136749889?s=20 The ongoing closure of the Strait of Hormuz is deeply damaging. Getting global shipping moving is vital to ease cost of living pressures. The UK has convened more than 40 nations who share our aim to restore freedom of navigation. This week the UK and France will co-host a summit to advance work on a coordinated, independent, multinational plan to safeguard international shipping when the conflict ends.
Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 15:24:11 Restoring freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz was of paramount importance, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said on Monday. Lmfao
Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 15:27:28 France will soon organize a conference with Britain to restore freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz, President Emmanuel Macron said on Monday. Rofl
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 15:55:13 The only country we appease is the USA and I agree, we really have to stop doing that.
Average Ameriacn rank	Mon Apr 13 16:53:17 The US is self sufficent, we don't need arabian oil, although we should keep it. Europeans did not help us winning against Iran, now they stand on the side of the lsoers. They can do better next time, when we make Cuba great again.
Seb rank	Mon Apr 13 16:58:20 NaMBLA: You realise that the people who decide if the straits are open or not are the maratime finance and insurance industry - mostly based in Europe.
Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 18:11:52 No dumbshit. The people who really decide anything are the guys with ships and missiles. Not you talkers that's for sure. Why would you possibly think something so retarded?
Forwyn rank	Mon Apr 13 18:28:48 So incredibly European. "It's the insurance adjuster bureaucrats who decide who travels the Straits based on the risks of being blasted by a missile, not the people sitting in hardened bunkers threatening to blast ships with a missile." Lol, permanently ineffectual
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 18:43:10 Lloyds lets stakeholders set premiums. The premiums in turn determine if a shipowner can profitably make a certain journey, or if it is cheaper to just keep the vessel in place if other options are unavailable. Its called marketplace capitalism. You can bypass that easily by offering State insurance at rates that allow for passage. What do you reckon? 1 ship in 50 might get recked? No problem, though getting recked with a full cargo of oil would easily cost the insurer a few billion dollars.
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 18:46:21 The dude in a bunker deters shipping. He cannot physically stop 150 ships a day from using a strait. The risk he represents stops shipping a risk that is quantified and given a number value. We call that number "insurance premiums".
Seb rank	Mon Apr 13 18:52:28 Sam: Nah. They ain't going to consider the straits open until they get insurance cover.
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 18:56:01 There is also the legality. Ships do have to enter Iranian territorial waters and with that full Iranian jurisdiction. A ship impounded would transfer the cost of maintaining a ship and crew from the shipowner to the insurer with no clear timeline on how or when the ship might get released as that would be a subject for Iranian courts to decide.
Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 19:15:01 ”a full cargo of oil would easily cost the insurer a few billion dollars.” Lol jergul math. A large ULCC costs about 150M new. She carries 3M barrels at say 110 per barrel... 330M in cargo. Add in a few phillipino/russian crew at a million each and you get just about 0.5B "There is also the legality. Ships do have to enter Iranian territorial waters and with that full Iranian jurisdiction. A ship impounded" More talk and beurocratic word salad. Lol "They ain't going to consider the straits open until they get insurance cover." Or if the the price of oil is high enough and the odds of sinking low enough. Bottom line... The US and Iranian missiles/ships/mines make this risk. Europussies just talk about it.
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 20:08:39 Dummy, "The Exxon Valdez oil spill cleanup cost approximately $2.1 billion to $2.5 billion in direct costs" Your smooth brain is very cute. *Huggles*
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 20:11:30 This illustrates one of the reasons you are a dummy. You did not think. An inquisitive mind would have wondered how I got to my number and would have included potential environmental cleanup costs after thinking for about 3 seconds. But, no. Not you :).
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 20:35:47 An oil tanker passed through the Strait of Hormuz on Monday afternoon after the Trump administration’s blockade on Iranian shipping was set to take effect, according to data published by Kpler, a data intelligence and analytics platform on global trade flows. The ship, registered in Comoros as Elpis, is partially laden and was sanctioned by the United States in 2025 for its “involvement in the sale, purchase, and transportation of Iranian petroleum” as part of Iran’s shadow fleet. ================ drumroll. What will happen?
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 20:39:12 https://ww...00345/imo:7361324/vessel:ELPIS Interesting. This ship is supposedly in malaga. Hmmm
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 20:42:47 https://ww...99876/imo:9212400/vessel:ELPIS That makes more sense.
Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 22:15:06 "oil spill cleanup" Obviously there are no cleanup costs. This is the already hopelessly polluted shores of the desert. No one cares. plus the oil will just burn away anyway.
Sam Adams rank	Mon Apr 13 22:19:43 Google how much anyone paid for the cleanup of any of the dozens of burnt hulks in the region from any of the previous fighting including the Iran Iraq war. Usually nothing. Pwnt. This ain't Alaska.
Paramount rank	Mon Apr 13 22:51:47 ”The UK has convened more than 40 nations who share our aim to restore freedom of navigation. France will soon organize a conference with Britain to restore freedom of navigation in the Strait of Hormuz” Are the Brits and the French going to send their navies to confront the US blockade of the strait?
jergul rank	Mon Apr 13 23:59:56 Insurers will be liable for cleanup costs dummy.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 00:02:57 Blockade runner still steaming away at 9 knots. What will Trump do?
Sam Adams rank	Tue Apr 14 00:04:56 There are no cleanup costs. This is Iran. There are no are rules. Plus not even a beurocratic cuck like you or seb could possibly blame the shipping company for getting sunk by Iran.
Pillz rank	Tue Apr 14 00:06:06 Any reasonable person can, yeah
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 00:28:51 Another reason that you are a dummy is that you do not check simple things to see what kind of insurance is required to sail in the gulf. You know, the most important shipping lane in the country that runs through the territorial waters of various countries that can easily impound vessels or cargo from transgressing companies. So, yah, ship and cargo owners follow the law. Anything else is horrible for business. Just use AI if you do not know how to research it yourself. Or continue to be a dumbass.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 00:30:39 in the world
Rugian rank	Tue Apr 14 00:31:12 The only insurance a sea captain needs is the presence of the US Navy. Duh.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 00:32:43 Poor sammy. He must be completely stumped by why traffic in the gulf stopped at all. Not very many ships can be sunk of the 150 that should be passing every day. Why are the not just sailing? Sammy is as smart as Trump.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 00:33:43 Ruggy You are right. That is obviously why insurance costs are way lower in the Indian Ocean where the closest US navy ships are.
Seb rank	Tue Apr 14 01:00:03 NaMBLA: Iran and the USN can close the straits, but they don't open again until the shipping insurance industry say they are; whatever Iran and the USN say.
Seb rank	Tue Apr 14 01:02:20 "could possibly blame" "Why did you sail into a war zone where you would obviously get sunk and spill oil and kill all my fish? That was obviously criminally reckless. I can't get money from Iran. I'll get it from your instead"
Sam Adams rank	Tue Apr 14 01:23:34 Ok I guess seb is actually retarded enough to blame the victim. Sort of like all those women he helped rape. Sigh. Lawyers, bureaucrats... That's the reason why we have shell companies in Liberia to avoid the blame of retarded talkers like seb. "Why are the not just sailing?" The risk is not yet low enough and the price of oil is not yet high enough. Duh. Oils at 110. That's 40 dollars less than the height of biden covidflation. Too much oil is getting out through the pipelines... Too many EVs online... Too much Texas and too much Venezuela. I'm surprised the price of oil is so low still, to be honest.
Seb rank	Tue Apr 14 08:34:34 NaMBLA: I know you can't handle this kind of abstraction, so it's not really fair to present this kind of thing to you. But life isn't fair Sam. I'm telling you how a sovereign state will behave. It won't give a shit about fairness, it will look to defray the costs of the ecological damage by going after the shipping company and its insurers. It isn't going to put the cost on it's taxpayers because it's "unfair" that Iran blew up the tanker. That is also not fair on the taxpayers, which is far more important to the state than a privately, likely foreign owned, vessel and it's insurers. Someone needs to cover the costs of cleanup: it won't be Iran, because there's no way to extract money from them quickly or easily. It won't be the state that owns the land if that can get it from somewhere else. So it will be the ship and its insurers. The phrase is "fuck you, pay me". Life, Sam, isn't fair.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 10:13:56 Sammy The risk is very low. Iran would never sink a ship a day. Why are the 150 ships not sailing out of the Gulf? Do the math. What are the chances of vessel sinking? A fraction of 1%. Rofl. Dummy. We would not blame the shipowner until we learned he was sailing uninsured. The captain would go to jail, the owner too if he could be extradited. Otherwise, the insurers would pay up. It is possible to insure. Current rates are 10% of cargo value and ship value PER WEEK. Nobody has a business model that can afford that, so the ships rest at anchor. Its a business call. Shipowners and companies are not nice by any stretch of the imagination.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 10:16:05 Sailing uninsured compounds the risks. That is illegal. Ships can and would be impounded. Rofl. The most important shipping lanes on the planet and Sammy thinks it is the wild west.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 11:19:35 https://ww...o:9773301/vessel:RICH%20STARRY
Seb rank	Tue Apr 14 14:44:21 Jergul: When you say blame, I think what Sam means is "on the event of an oil spill due to Iran blowing up a tanker why would anyone expect liability to accrue to the tanker? Therefore it does not need insurance." I suspect in practice affected countries would want to know why that tanker did not comply with Iran's warnings and recklessly got itself shot to bits spilling oil and polluting the affected country. States will always try to recoup such costs from whoever they can.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 15:22:13 Poluting multiple countries. There is no way a spill would be isolated. I got that he meant that, but polution insurance is mandatory and ships can easily be impounded for lacking full coverage. Its more than just the liability. Avoiding it would result in freight owners and ship owners locking themselves out of the Persian gulf to keep their activity out of jurisdiction. A very poor business idea.
jergul rank	Tue Apr 14 15:25:05 Ultimately though, he is just doubling down on stupid when he decided to dispute the environmental costs.
Sam Adams rank	Tue Apr 14 15:33:15 ” telling you how a sovereign state will behave." Yet that is not how they behaved during Iran Iraq. Lol dunce.
Seb rank	Tue Apr 14 15:41:00 NaMBLA: You should look into the situation with the tanker sunk in the gulf war. None of the gulf states want that kind of shit where they are left holding the cost.
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