Utopia Talk / Politics / "Sebgul" told you so

Seb Member	Wed May 15 13:44:40 Israeli defense secretary Gallant had just come out and publicly admitted he's said from day 1 what both jergul and I said (though lord knows we disagree about all the details) - the only solution for Gaza is for the IDF to install palestinan governance and security and gtfo. Lol.
Rugian Member	Wed May 15 16:58:54 To quote Netanyahu himself, Israel is "not prepared to switch from Hamastan to Fatahstan." All this is is an example of an idiot minister whose errant consumption of international leftwing media is about to cost him his job. Bye bye retard
Seb Member	Thu May 16 00:39:44 Or as Gallant put it, the IDF cannot provide security for a military government of Gaza and fight a war against Israel's other enemies. Such left wing. Much woke.
Seb Member	Thu May 16 00:41:12 Rugian, you've been demonstrably wrong on everything for so long now. Don't you think it's time to give up talking about this kinda stuff?
Sam Adams Member	Thu May 16 08:56:18 Hamas seb notice he didnt say "hamas".
Sam Adams Member	Thu May 16 08:58:57 Anyway seb made a thread celebrating appeasement. Amazing. Such UK. much chamberlain. So woke.
Seb Member	Thu May 16 09:36:19 Sam: Yes. I didn't say Hamas. That was not an omission. Not very bright are you.
Rugian Member	Thu May 16 10:44:38 Seb You're the one whose been constantly proven wrong, on everything from R2P to China to Gaza. You and your friends in the diplomatic corps insist on Israel turning over Gaza to a Palestinian administration on "the day after." My simple question to you is who exactly should that transferee be? Fatah? Some as-yet-unknown secular liberal democratic Palestinian organization? God knows the Gazan people themselves don't want reform - they voted in Hamas in the first place and support their current "war" (meaning terrorist) efforts against the Jewish state. Which one of us is being unrealistic here? At least an Israeli military administration would be within the bounds of something that is actually achievable. No, rewarding terrorists with sovereignty is not a solution, which is why Israel and sane people like myself don't support it.
Seb Member	Thu May 16 11:26:07 PLA, same group in charge of West Bank
Seb Member	Thu May 16 11:27:34 I don't know why you feel the need to keep claiming "they" "voted in" "hamas" when it's abundantly false. Like saying it's ok to kill Israelis because they voted in irgun.
Seb Member	Thu May 16 11:28:31 "Which one of us is being unrealistic here" You are. As the fucking Israeli defense secretary agrees.
Rugian Member	Thu May 16 12:28:48 "PLA, same group in charge of West Bank" So Fatah. The same group that, aside from its extremely unpopularity, incompetence, and corruption, is fundamentally anti-Semitic to its core, having launched multiple intifadas against Israel and which still pays the families or terrorists who succeed in murdering Jews. Lololololol. Fat fucking chance, Sebipoo. 2006 happened whether you wanted it to or not. Please stop lying about that one. "As the fucking Israeli defense secretary agrees. And the entire rest of the Israeli government agrees with me, so suck it.
Sam Adams Member	Thu May 16 17:08:00 "Yes. I didn't say Hamas. That was not an omission." Then you concede israel has the right to fight in gaza until there is no hamas.
murder Member	Thu May 16 21:42:42 Israel should finish off Hamas, and then start flooding Gaza with Christians and turn it into an independent Christian homeland. Fair is fair.
Sam Adams Member	Fri May 17 00:00:18 We should send all our homeless there.
Sam Adams Member	Fri May 17 00:00:25 We should send all our homeless there.
jergul large member	Fri May 17 04:45:02 To be fair, "New Russia" is probably more suited to rugged individualist Americans seeking to live in communities with strong traditional values. Since just occupying stuff for spurious reasons is fine by what I can tell in this thread.
jergul large member	Fri May 17 04:46:47 Homestead. Not just live. Homestead. That is what rugged Americans want to do.
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 05:21:59 "Since just occupying stuff for spurious reasons " Terrorist clearance is about the most justified reason there is.
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 05:37:49 "Since just occupying stuff for spurious reasons " The Muslims are free to end their long-running occupation of Judea, Arabia Petra, Syria, (classical) Armenia, Cappadocia, Cilicia, Galatia, Bythinia, Lycia, Asia, Egypt, Cyrenaica, Africa, Mauretania, and Epirus and return those territories to the Christian world any time they want.
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 05:39:31 See, we can use anti-colonialist narratives too.
jergul large member	Fri May 17 05:45:01 Ruggy I am glad you support the Russian invasion and occupation then as way more than 1000 civilians were killed prior to the invasion. See what happens when you remove proportionality from the equation?
jergul large member	Fri May 17 05:47:33 Also, yes, the 60 year occupation in the holy lands a mere 1000 years ago is almost as good as the arguments used by Zionism to want something in Uganda or maybe the holy lands.
jergul large member	Fri May 17 05:48:07 For more recent history, so, when are you giving contiental US back to its rightful owners?
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 06:02:40 Jergul Russia herself was the one that kicked off that whole thing, so no not the same situation. We are fast approaching a world where virtually nobody alive will be old enough to remember a time when the Jewish state did not exist and Arab states controlled Azzah, Judea, and Samaria. At that point, what does it matter if it occurred 100 or 1,500 years ago? Either way, it's settled history by then. If you do insist on re-litigating events that occurred in the 40s - 60s, what other insane causes would you like to adopt? Tibetan independence? Repatriation of Aksai Chin? Returning Africa to the control of its colonial overlords? The Indians have every right to attempt a war of reconquest of the Americans. Good luck doing that against a country with both the world's strongest military and a Second Amendment.
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 06:03:46 "From the Tigris to Gibraltar, the Roman Empire will never again faltar" Hee. Being a dumb college student who blindly spouts political slogans he doesn't understand might be fun.
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 06:08:41 "From the Atlantic to Iraq, the Roman Empire shall be back"
jergul large member	Fri May 17 06:12:05 Ruggy Maidan kicked off that whole thing. Who would have thought that abrupt unicultural changes would create a civil war like state in a multicultural country? Is it settled? Israel got off easy this time. It might face a palestinian resistance with half a million FPV drones next time. Or an Iran with nukes emboldened to overwhelm iron dome defences with saturation fire by medium range missiles.
Rugian Member	Fri May 17 06:29:11 Jergul Oho, so Maidan was about forcing Ukrainization on eastern Ukraine now. Lulz. What other blatant rewrites of history do you want to attempt today? Do we even need to get into all the tomfuckery that Russia pulled in manipulating Ukrainian politics during the 00s and early 10s? Iran is welcome to launch some sort of weird jihad against Israel. Just as we're entitled to nuke every single city in that shithole country. Iran is the ultimate example of a rogue state at risk of FAFO.
jergul large member	Fri May 17 06:32:47 Ruggy That is how the eastern and southern ukrainians felt about it. Turns out their perceptions mattered. Scroll forward after 5x 7th october civilian deaths and see an invasion.
Seb Member	Fri May 17 06:46:07 Sam: "Then you concede israel has the right to fight in gaza until there is no hamas." Only if you concede by the same logic they can nuke America until there are no Neo Nazis.
murder Member	Fri May 17 07:38:48 "Only if you concede by the same logic they can nuke America until there are no Neo Nazis." Hell I demand it. It sounds like fun.
murder Member	Fri May 17 07:42:21 It's morning and my idea still sounds solid. I think I'll pass it along to Netanyahu. Come to think of it, there's no reason why Christians shouldn't control the West Bank too. Just import millions of Christians and they can shoot it out with the Muslims to see who gets a homeland.
Seb Member	Fri May 17 09:49:48 Rugian: The Palestinan Authority runs the west bank well enough from an Israeli security perspective. Ranting about something from getting on for two decades ago is retarded. It's like when Thatcher argued against German reunification because Hitler. It's obviously a pretext. "2006 happened whether you wanted it to or not" Yes, but it happened 20 years ago when literally half of the current adult population of Gaza weren't able to vote, what was voted on was substantially different from what you claim, and who won isn't exactly the group you claim. If you want to know who is responsible for Hamas *taking control* of Gaza, it's got nothing to do with the legislative elections, but hamas in a coup aided by Israel under a Likud govt that deliberately blocked arms to the PA and the movement of their forces into Gaza, precisely so hamas would be in control, and Israel could say it had no unified Palestinian govt to vote for. Netenyahu actually boasted of this. That's the story of 2006 and it's amazing you still deny it when the PM of Israel boasts of it as a smart move. what happened isn't remotely what
Sam Adams Member	Fri May 17 20:55:18 "Only if you concede by the same logic they can nuke America until there are no Neo Nazis." Literally retarded.
Seb Member	Sat May 18 04:06:34 Sam: NeoNAzi's hate Jews and want to kill them. Clearly a threat, must be eliminated! Only... NeoNazi's don't control the US, so it's a retarded proposition. Similarly, Hamas isn't a threat if it's not in control of Gaza. Organisations like Hamas are near impossible to defeat without controlling the ground. The choice is: 1. either the IDF do it, but will be no more succesful than they were in Lebanon or the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, and leaving Israel exposed to attacks from elsewhere 2. the PA does it, as they do in the West Bank, to the extent Israeli settlers are able to kill Palestinians without organised reprisal. The reason Netenyahu does not want 2 is because the whole point of his party and he himself ensuring Hamas controlled Gaza in the first place was to claim there is no overarching Palestinian partner to negotiate with that actually wanted peace. This is - and always has been - about Israel's desire to annex the West Bank and Gaza.
Seb Member	Sat May 18 04:07:53 Anyway, those are the options. The IDF knows it, the sensible people in the Israeli cabinet knows it. Only idiots deny it.
jergul large member	Sat May 18 06:17:24 Defacto annex. Dejure would undermine that crazy assed cultural characteristics Zionism aims for. The choices are really either a two state solution with a viable Palestinian state, a 4 state solution giving Jordan and Egypt control of respective areas and let them hash out the details of self-determination with the Palestinians, a 1 state solution where Israel departs from its crazy assed "jewish characteristics" and becomes a true multi ethic democracy, or eventual paria status like NK if the ongoing Apartheid regime continues (a defacto one state solution with pretend bantustan protectorates to justify apartheid. Just like South Africa tried to do back in the day).
Sam Adams Member	Sat May 18 11:20:56 "This is - and always has been - about Israel's desire to annex the West Bank and Gaza." Lol even more retarded
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: