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Utopia Talk / Politics / B.1.1.529
Paramount
Member
Fri Nov 26 01:35:04
Covid: New heavily mutated variant B.1.1.529 in South Africa raises concern

We're back in familiar territory - growing concern about a new variant of coronavirus.

The latest is the most heavily mutated version discovered so far - and it has such a long list of mutations that it was described by one scientist as "horrific", while another told me it was the worst variant they'd seen.


"This variant did surprise us, it has a big jump on evolution [and] many more mutations that we expected," he said.

Zooming in even further to the receptor binding domain (that's the part of the virus that makes first contact with our body's cells), it has 10 mutations compared to just two for the Delta variant that swept the world.

This level of mutation has most likely come from a single patient who was unable to beat the virus.

Prof Richard Lessells, from the University of KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa, said: "They give us concern this virus might have enhanced transmissibility, enhanced ability to spread from person to person, but might also be able to get around parts of the immune system."


http://www.bbc.com/news/health-59418127


Is this it? Are we all going to die next year?
TheChildren
Member
Fri Nov 26 02:53:57
not if u get urself sinovac.

traditional vaccines not mrna crap offers huge protection against mutatin virusses.

dunt 4get how white fake news media tried 2 smear sinovac... how it started

how it ended.

rofl thats like sayin all ur flu vaccines and polio vaccines of da last 70 years were just sugar water and ineffective...

but in there scrambled eggs state they cant be expected 2 think straight no more
Seb
Member
Fri Nov 26 02:58:21
Just recalling that South Africa turned down donation of enough AZ vaccine to cover its entire population. But thanks to a small and deficient sub-study, widely amplified by vaccine nationalists such as the likes of Sam Adams (who has recanted of late, even though the data was clear at the time thanks to the UK to out), turned it down.

The result is higher R, higher vital loads, and more scope for mutation.

So now we have - possibly - a faster spreading vaccine escape candidate.

The lesson of this is clear:

We need to accelerate global vaccination,
We need people to take boosters,
Or this will go on for ever.

Paramount
Member
Fri Nov 26 04:01:27
If it is able to bypass the immune system, isn’t this new variant like AIDS then, but more transmissible? And if it is, can’t we just put a condom on our heads to prevent to inhale droplets and aerosols?
Pillz
Member
Fri Nov 26 04:43:43
You'd think in a country with soaring rates of HIV/AIDS, the virus would find no reason to mutate because host immune systems are generally so compromised
Daemon
Member
Fri Nov 26 04:57:29
On HIV/AIDS & Corona (automatic translation):

https://www.spektrum.de/news/neue-corona-variante-warum-b-1-1-529-fachleuten-sorgen-macht/1953148

(...)
On the other hand, experts have been discussing for months that such highly modified variants may evolve in people with weakened immune systems - for example, untreated HIV-infected individuals. If the immune system fights the virus but cannot completely eliminate it because of the immunodeficiency, the pathogen undergoes an accelerated evolution. Experts have already observed this several times in cancer patients and in patients after an organ transplant, and in the summer of 2021 also in a person suffering from AIDS. South Africa has a high rate of HIV infections. It happened several times that monoclonal antibodies lost their effect because the virus adapted quickly.

So far, these are only hypotheses. The origin of most new variants could also be explained in another way, for example by the very high number of cases. These also increase the probability that new variants will emerge. However, experts see the largely missing pedigree of B.1.1.529 as an indication that part of the evolution of the variant took place in secret - for example, in the course of a long-lasting infection.
(...)
Pillz
Member
Fri Nov 26 08:59:53
Inb4 corona becomes actual airborne aids
Y2A
Member
Fri Nov 26 09:01:05
wonderful
Nekran
Member
Fri Nov 26 09:11:45
"You'd think in a country with soaring rates of HIV/AIDS, the virus would find no reason to mutate because host immune systems are generally so compromised"

If a variant spreads more efficiently, it will become dominant. Whether the old versions are still easily spreading as well or not. It doesn't need a reason. Mutations will happen regardless.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 26 09:13:23
More fearmongering. We really need to learn to start ignoring articles like this. Covid variants are going to pop up here and there, it's a feature of such a prevalent virus. That doesn't mean that John Q. Public should care.

Covid is endemic and we need to accept that. Old and unhealthy people should get vaccines and maybe wear masks in public. Young people should consider getting vaccinated as a matter of convenience, but otherwise need to get back to their lives.

If you're a healthy person under the age of 60 and you're not living your life like its 2019, then you're doing it wrong.
Nekran
Member
Fri Nov 26 10:37:19
Unless of course you're a healthy person under the age of 60 who cares about other people. Then you should definitely take some easy precautions like wearing a mask in crowded places.

I do agree that we're not getting rid of Covid anytime soon and need to accept that. However, accepting that comes with consequences. We accept Covid existing, we do not accept our health care system crumbling though. We have a 75% vaccination rate and our hospitals are starting to get in trouble again because we've been living like pre-vocid days again the past months.

You say the word "accepting", but what you mean is ignoring. Which would be a monumentally stupid thing to do.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 26 10:50:06
"Then you should definitely take some easy precautions like wearing a mask in crowded places"

For how long? Forever? Gtfo

I don't wear a mask during flu season and I'm not going to wear one for Covid. Sorry.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 26 10:53:13
If this whole thing has taught us anything, its that there are a LOT of closet germophobes out there, and they're not hesitant to use state power to force everyone else to cater to their neuroses.
murder
Member
Fri Nov 26 11:21:54

This isn't the flu. It's more easily transmitted and much deadlier. And it's only forever if a significant portion of the population remains determined to keep this thing circulating forever.

Sam Adams
Member
Fri Nov 26 11:44:42
About a year ago moderna and pfizer were saying it would be very easy for them to tweak their mrna vaxes to the varients...

... so... that was complete bullshit huh?
Nekran
Member
Fri Nov 26 12:07:51
"I don't wear a mask during flu season and I'm not going to wear one for Covid. Sorry."

Yeah, such a huge inconvenience to wear a bit of cloth in crowded places to help spare an overloaded health care system. You're right, the freedom to spread your germs around is far more important than health care.

"About a year ago moderna and pfizer were saying it would be very easy for them to tweak their mrna vaxes to the varients...

... so... that was complete bullshit huh?"

I dunno... the mRNA vaccines seem to still be doing pretty well against the known variants to bnegin with. Dunno about this new one, but I don't think anyone knows yet. We might soon though, as we've had one confirmed case of it here a few days ago. Some unvaccinated asshole brought it here from his trip to Egypt.

Seems to be that vaccine efficiency degrades over time though... especially when it comes to contracting and spreading the disease. People ending up in hospitals are 50/50 vaccinated and non-vaccinated around here now (of course 7 times more people are vaccinated vs unvaccinated).

So the vaccines still help a good deal. Not as much as we'd initally hoped though... last numbers I heard was 88% less likely to be hospitalized and about 75% for the elderly and otherwise at risk people. That's for all vaccines lumped together though, not sure about the differences between the brands.

Those are not bad numbers. But it's hard to get good numbers about how much they help against spreading the disease.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 26 12:18:50
murder

100% of the global population could be vaccinated, and Covid will still be with us forever, because the vaccines do not prevent transmission. Sorry.

Nekran

"Yeah, such a huge inconvenience to wear a bit of cloth "

Yes, it is.

"in crowded places to help spare an overloaded health care system"

One, most health care facilities in the US are not overloaded, at all, and those that do become overloaded by Covid only tend to be so for a short duration. Two, it's not my job to change my lifestyle to accommodate failures of the healthcare system.

Also, you didn't answer my question. When can Covid mitigation procedures such as mask mandates be lifted, exactly? Year, month, day, or metric, but you need to provide one.
murder
Member
Fri Nov 26 12:25:46

"About a year ago moderna and pfizer were saying it would be very easy for them to tweak their mrna vaxes to the varients ... so... that was complete bullshit huh?"

I'm sure financial incentives will drive that work. but lets face it, even if they could tweak the vaccines in short order ... getting the new vaccine in arms would take an extended period of time ... and by then there may be a new scary variant.


Nekran
Member
Fri Nov 26 12:26:49
"Also, you didn't answer my question. When can Covid mitigation procedures such as mask mandates be lifted, exactly?"

When it no longer poses problems for the health care system, obviously.

But we just lifted them all thinking our vaccination rate would protect us enough and within a few months we're getting in trouble again.

Whether this is achieved by beefing up the system or fighitng covid more efficiently or, more likely, by a combination of both, doesn't matter. But that is obviously the criterium. We're a small densely populated country with universal health care... it's insane for us to lift a

"Yes, it is."

OK, I can imagine that a pussy like you can't handle such hardship.

"One, most health care facilities in the US are not overloaded, at all,"

That's because a large part of your population is used to not having access to begin with. And of course regional population/vaccination rate differences will play their part. I wouldn't recommend one set of rules for the entire US.
Nekran
Member
Fri Nov 26 12:28:09
"Also, you didn't answer my question. When can Covid mitigation procedures such as mask mandates be lifted, exactly?"

When it no longer poses problems for the health care system, obviously.

But we just lifted them all thinking our vaccination rate would protect us enough and within a few months we're getting in trouble again.

Whether this is achieved by beefing up the system or fighitng covid more efficiently or, more likely, by a combination of both, doesn't matter. But that is obviously the criterium. We're a small densely populated country with universal health care... it's insane for us to lift all measures. As we have sadly just proven to ourselves.

"Yes, it is."

Yes, I can imagine that a pussy like you can't handle such hardship for the good of his community.

"One, most health care facilities in the US are not overloaded, at all,"

That's because a large part of your population is used to not having access to begin with. And of course regional population and vaccination rate differences will play their part. I wouldn't recommend one set of rules for the entire US.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 26 14:07:56
"When it no longer poses problems for the health care system, obviously."

So basically forever then. What a vague and unmeetable metric to offer.

Here's a thought. Maybe your shitty government-run healthcare system was already in trouble because Belgium has an aging population that was going to strain existing resources no matter what.

Seriously, what is the end game in your mind? Covid is endemic, we have no way of preventing transmission, so it's going to be with us for the long term. How many years should we, as supposedly free Westerners, continue to accept restrictions on our liberties like mask and vaccine mandates, lockdowns, etc.? A year? 5 years? 10 years?

The problem is that your tolerance for authoritarian measures is infinite, so you keep letting them move the goalposts on when Covid "ends." As long as you continue letting them seize authority and power, they'll continue to do so.

"Whether this is achieved by beefing up the system or fighitng covid more efficiently or, more likely, by a combination of both, doesn't matter."

What matters is that you seem to have a mentality of "restrictions stay in place until Covid effectively disappears."

and

"it's insane for us to lift all measures. As we have sadly just proven to ourselves."

I just checked and Belgian deaths from Covid are...25,000.

Such a low tolerance for loss is unacceptable. We don't shut down countries or restrict liberties just because the flu kills a couple hundred thousand people every year. Covid should be no different.

It's insane for you to not be able to move on from this disease, almost two years out.

"That's because a large part of your population is used to not having access to begin with."

Wrong.

"I wouldn't recommend one set of rules for the entire US."

Well at least you're smarter than our current senile idiot in chief then. Not that that's a high bar to surpass.

"Yes, I can imagine that a pussy like you can't handle such hardship for the good of his community."

The only pussy is the guy who is effectively calling for permanent Covid restrictions.

Enjoy it when your government decides to seal you up in your house bro. I'm sure you'll be completely fine with it when they do.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 26 14:43:28
Daemon, The silver lining may be in a very cruel world that the variant may wipe out a large share of the HIV/aids patients which could help get that epidemic under control.
Y2A
Member
Fri Nov 26 17:20:16
damn, i'm supposed to fly out to Rio on tuesday. hope this doesn't f things up.
murder
Member
Fri Nov 26 18:03:21

Fully vaccinated I hope.

murder
Member
Fri Nov 26 18:27:35

I'll worry about this new variant when it's determined that it is deadlier and spreads more easily. Until then I'll assume that it's just more of the same.

Hrothgar
Member
Fri Nov 26 18:45:09
Hundreds of millions of infections per year giving a massive mutation pool plus high velocity global travel plus vaccine conspiracy thinking - such a bad scenario for a pandemic, and it's playing out before our eyes.

I'm still relatively certain that once 90+% of the population globally has either had a version of, vaccination, or both in many cases - the danger of the disease on a population level will fall off toward where colds/flus are now once everyone has some level of immune recognition of the virus family.
Y2A
Member
Fri Nov 26 19:02:27
of course i am fully vaccinated and just got the booster. i am not so concerned about the virus itself (for me at least) but about the implications for global travel. they just shut down all flights to/from southern africa.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Nov 27 00:14:46
Ya, your flights are way more likely to get screwed than your health is.
Nekran
Member
Sat Nov 27 01:52:51
"I just checked and Belgian deaths from Covid are...25,000.

Such a low tolerance for loss is unacceptable."

The deaths are not the issue. The strain on the health care system is. People are having important surgeries postponed because shitheads like you don't want to get vaccinated or partake in very simple measures to alleviate the circumstances.

"So basically forever then. What a vague and unmeetable metric to offer."

It really isn't. I should put a percentage of hospital capacity that is needed for Covid patients, but I don't know what the acceptable number is. 10% maybe? Feels like it's far too high already, but currently it's a good deal higher still.

We were there some months ago. Restrictions were lifted. It didn't go well. So we need to make more of an effort.

"The only pussy is the guy who is effectively calling for permanent Covid restrictions."

Lol... not only is that not what I'm calling for, you are most definitely the pussy thinking a mask is too much of an inconvenience to wear in crowded places for the good of your community.

People should spit on your beyond pathetic "wearing a mask is an unbearable restriction of my freedom to help my community" face.

I mean... shit... my grandfathjer fought in WW2. My grat aunt came of age and became a teacher during WW2. I've heard their stories of hardships endured for the good of their communities.

I simply can't imagine being such an unbelieably speneless slug that I would think wearing a bit of cloth in front of my face from time to time would be too much of a sacrifice of my freedom to make for the good of my community. The mind truly boggles.
Seb
Member
Sat Nov 27 04:16:44
Hrothgar:

Probably. If we can get there faster than escape variants are created. People like Rugian seem determined not to get there though.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Sat Nov 27 08:00:40
Trump would have made a new vaccine against omcron in 2 weeks! Project superlightspeed!

What will Biden do? NOTHING!
Paramount
Member
Sat Nov 27 09:13:00
” Two cases of the Omicron coronavirus variant have been detected in the UK, the health secretary has said.”


It’s time to stop all travels to and from the UK now.
murder
Member
Sat Nov 27 09:47:43

For now mandatory testing for travelers and quarantining BEFORE departure should suffice.



TheChildren
Member
Sat Nov 27 11:44:24
"About a year ago moderna and pfizer were saying it would be very easy for them to tweak their mrna vaxes to the varients...

... so... that was complete bullshit huh? "

>> lolololol did u just figure this out?
lolololol

butbutbut fakenews said chinese vaccines aka the real vaccines made in the same way 99.9999% of all vaccines ever in the history of the world, ever, thats ever made "doesnt work as good"

rofl.
Sam Adams
Member
Sat Nov 27 11:56:46
Chinavax no workim rolf rolf rolf
murder
Member
Sat Nov 27 13:38:22

I would bet that there are 5,000,000 Chinese covid victims buried in unmarked graves somewhere in China.

TheChildren
Member
Sun Nov 28 01:30:07
butbutbut 92% effective. ma pfizer. ahahaha

what happened there kids? rofl. notice how nobody is talkin about da 92% no more. no more.

Seb
Member
Mon Nov 29 15:10:59
Sam:

RE new vaccine - I think they can, the question is whether they think there is a need or market for it.
murder
Member
Mon Nov 29 16:42:18

We need to focus on getting the vaccines we've got in as many arms around the world as possible. Otherwise we'll just end up playing whack-a-mole with endless variants.

Seb
Member
Mon Nov 29 16:51:51
Murder:

Yup. Which is why there are no real buyers at the moment for a variant specific vaccine. So far, even the "escape" variants don't give rise to very serious cases so nobody is ready to buy a variant specific vaccine. The effort is still on getting as many doses produced and into arms than marginal gains by further reducing infections in the vaccinated population.

There will probably come a point where that changes though.

Vaccinated people with long but not very severe infections they don't quite fight off are a good place for escape variants to evolve through evolution against the immune system trained on a particular vaccine.

The best way to reduce the number of such hosts is to increase vaccine cover (less reservoir for people such people to become infected due to shorter infections and less transmission between people). To

Then, at some point, it will be variant specific vaccines.

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