Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Fri Mar 29 10:41:20 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / wisonsin terror attack
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Nov 21 18:04:04
Car drives into Christmas paradade at speed, many dead, injured.

one of sebs Muslims? blm?
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Nov 21 18:24:48
http://twi...tatus/1462576227999432712?s=20

Initial speculation is negros.
murder
Member
Sun Nov 21 19:30:00

That looks odd. The driver swerved to the left instead of plowing right down the middle of the marching band.

Y2A
Member
Sun Nov 21 19:33:19
"Initial speculation is negros."

so something may actually be done about this is what you are saying?
Habebe
Member
Sun Nov 21 20:04:00
Left wing terrorism strikes again.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Nov 21 20:47:29
war on christmas
Habebe
Member
Sun Nov 21 21:14:14
^OMG! Trump was right!
Y2A
Member
Sun Nov 21 21:36:17
15 patients at children's hospital, live local news:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR258ZOKBBw
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Sun Nov 21 21:46:59
could be Kyle after a drunken celebration w/ Tucker
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Nov 21 21:57:15
I had to make sure that the left-wing terrorists who killed Mohammad Anwar in D.C. weren't let out early, but those girls are in juvenile detention until they turn 18. Pretty light sentences for second degree and felony murder, but the judge must think that they'll turn their lives around.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Nov 21 22:16:01
Confirmed negro with a laundry list of career crimes who, according to left wing and BLM policies, was just set free after previous serious crimes.
Y2A
Member
Sun Nov 21 22:16:51
"the left-wing terrorists"

car jacking murderers are now antifa terrorists lol, get a grip dude.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Nov 21 22:21:07
"car jacking murderers are now antifa terrorists lol"

I'm lightly using the precedent set by DNC Politburo. If misdemeanor trespassing on the Capitol Building is terrorism (like 9/11), then murder is like 9/11 times a *thousand*. That's right. Nine hundred and eleven *thousand*.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Nov 21 23:06:38
The soros-funded DA who let this POS out ran on a campaign in part based on eliminating bail because its unfair to black people.
jergul
large member
Sun Nov 21 23:47:35
I think it important to place the blame where it belongs. Wisconsin is an open carry state. Abhorrent how armed people failed to protect life and property. I am sure there are laws against inaction when lives are in danger.
Y2A
Member
Sun Nov 21 23:47:41
twitter is saying this is the same guy (completely unverified yet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sc8VqvGdSk
Y2A
Member
Sun Nov 21 23:48:00
mathboi fly
jergul
large member
Sun Nov 21 23:51:02
He looks about as white as Rittenhouse, though I am sure he has black heritage.
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 22 00:04:28
Surprised MSNBC hasn't called for banning SUVs.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 00:13:28
An obvious supreme court oversight the founding fathers never intended. The 2nd ammendment is surely meant to cover arms sufficient to take down mounted infantry. A muskett cut it once. Today you need a TOW to take out a SUV or bradley.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Nov 22 00:36:31
[jergul]: "I think it important to place the blame where it belongs. Wisconsin is an open carry state. Abhorrent how armed people failed to protect life and property. I am sure there are laws against inaction when lives are in danger."
"The 2nd ammendment is surely meant to cover arms sufficient to take down mounted infantry."

Hell yeah. Jergul starting to get it.

Full Second Amendment protection laws need to start. That means getting a firearm into the hands of every single citizen (with obvious exceptions, like people currently serving time in prison). If every single person in that crowd had had a firearm, that SUV would have been full of holes. Rip and tear.
The founders also lived in a time of private ownership of canons, mortars, machine guns (e.g., the Puckle gun), rotary guns, and repeaters, so citizens need their access restored to all crew-served weapons. There should *not* be laws against, for instance, the H&K MP7. That would be an obvious choice in a situation like this. An armed society is a polite society, so everyone should be fully armed.
Paramount
Member
Mon Nov 22 01:07:45
People shouldn’t be blocking the streets. Don’t stand in front of a moving car.

Maybe next year they can celebrate christmas in a barn or on a green field instead?
Y2A
Member
Mon Nov 22 01:12:46
twitter page of "mathboi fly": http://twitter.com/flytalk1oo?lang=en
Paramount
Member
Mon Nov 22 01:16:19
* the roads. Don’t block the roads
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Nov 22 03:18:46
Pretty sure people are allowed to "block" the roads when they get permits for a parade down those roads. This wasn't a BLM protest.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 03:38:53
Whats up with denying people in jail their 2nd amendment rights?
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 03:40:25
The whole idea that government can limit citizen rights is just crazy.

What are you? The USSR? It commonly put people in mental institutions or jails.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 03:47:05
"An armed society is a polite society, so everyone should be fully armed"

Your endgame is a polite society?
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 03:52:07
Let freedom reign!

http://gyazo.com/bd49dea47c138221206738b47eff7ff9
murder
Member
Mon Nov 22 06:15:27

"I'm lightly using the precedent set by DNC Politburo. If misdemeanor trespassing ..."

You mean trying to stop the transition of power and install a dictator.

I'd like to think that you're just down the rabbit hole, but I suspect that you are actively and intentionally spreading bullshit.
Paramount
Member
Mon Nov 22 10:47:19
"Pretty sure people are allowed to "block" the roads when they get permits for a parade down those roads."



Okay. But if they put children on the road then the least thing the police could do is to block the road from traffic. The organizers, the parents and the police neglected the safety.
habebe
Member
Mon Nov 22 11:26:39
Paramount, Yeah, normally for this sort of thing neon orange barricades are put up blocking the street.Often Police cars or the organizers will park on an angle in front of the barricades as a double measure.


Big city or small town this is all standard practice.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Mon Nov 22 12:12:26
there's video of him going through the barricades at the end of route


current reporting seems to be he was fleeing another crime scene, so not terrorism or road-blockage-rage
Habebe
Member
Mon Nov 22 12:16:59
TW, Yeah, I just seen it on CNN.
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 22 12:40:56
Since 1968 convicted felons are considered prohibited persons. It is part of the penalty for committing the crime. People who commit crimes should be willing to face the consequences of their crimes if caught. Had they not committed a crime and been convicted of that crime they would not have lost their rights. That is one side of the argument.
The other side is the constitution gives us the right and government shouldn't be able to take it away. Some states have begun to rethink taking away the right to vote and the right to bear arms. So far the Supreme Court has been reluctant to rule.
Personally I think individuals should be responsible for their actions and knowing loss of rights is a part that is something they should accept when convicted. I also think the law is applied to wide. As it is now it can include crimes like repeat DUI. The law needs to be rewritten so that a good decision can be made more on a case by case basis.

Barriers were in place to mark the parade route and block the road but they were not substantial enough to stop a vehicle from getting through. They were used basically to mark the route. The driver had to go through the barriers to get on the street where the parade was taking place.

Speculation is now the suspect was fleeing the scene of a stabbing and turned down that street trying to get away. The turns he made in the videos looks like he might have been trying to miss people.
Habebe
Member
Mon Nov 22 13:37:33
Andy NGO has tweeted links that claim he was out on bail for running a woman over with his car when the Christmas parade massacre happened.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 13:59:14
Kargen
Once you accept that the Constitution is conditional, then it is only a question of time before they come for you.
Rugian
Member
Mon Nov 22 14:07:10
You know you're arguing in good faith when your premise boils down to "well either convicted murderers can own guns in prison or you don't believe in gun rights."

A person who makes such an argument is clearly worthy of debate.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 15:10:52
Ruggy
You think self-defense is not needed in your prison systems? Obviously not anything that can penetrate walls, but being too cheap to spot prison guards proper armour plates is hardly a reason to set aside the 2nd amendment.

But noted you think the Constitution is negiotable.
Habebe
Member
Mon Nov 22 15:26:47
Define negotiable? It's well established that prisoners do not have full constitutional rights.While others like say the 8th is specifically for prisoners (cruel and unusual)

As for 2nd amendment issues I think a jail would fall under restricted areas such as a court house.
murder
Member
Mon Nov 22 15:56:25

"You know you're arguing in good faith when your premise boils down to "well either convicted murderers can own guns in prison or you don't believe in gun rights.""

The 2nd Amendment is absolute in the right to keep and bear arms.

Forwyn
Member
Mon Nov 22 15:58:43
FWIW, nonviolent felons at the least should absolutely have their 2A rights intact upon release.
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 22 17:10:46
Every civilized country and the country jergul calls home has laws and has consequences for breaking those laws. So long as the consequences are equally applied the judicial system is working as intended.
Do you just type shit to keep your fingers limber?
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 17:39:39
habebe
Vaccine mandates and SALT are also well established.

Kargen
Noted. The 2nd ammendment is maleable and can ultimately mean anything the State decides it means.

In truth, I am pointing to a huge irregularity in your system. You have all kinds of 2nd class people in your country, and pretend you are the freest on earth.

LBJ nailed it. You can treat a poor white man any way you like for as long as he has a nigger to look down on.

The sentiment is the same. Your middle class is gone, but thats ok for as long as an existence in impotence is compensated for by a saturday night special in the nightstand drawer, and some felons or other undesirables you can look down on.
jergul
large member
Mon Nov 22 17:45:01
Interestingly, the reason felons can be used as slave labout is because the emmancipation ammendment specifically excluded felons from that constitutional protection.

Felons are not excluded from the 2nd ammendment. You can argue that they should be, but that is not what the ammendment says.
kargen
Member
Mon Nov 22 18:06:56
jergul can you give an example of the federal government issuing a vaccine mandate other than to the military?

It was a decision in I think 1968 that decided certain types of convictions meant loss of 2nd amendment rights. I was only six then so wasn't really paying attention to politics much. Unsure as to why that decision was reached.

Looked and turns out it was passed in reaction to the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy.

The law was first taken to court as unconstitutional in 1980 and the court ruled:
"in Lewis v. United States (1980). In that case the Court addressed whether the provision banning the possession of firearms by convicted felons was constitutional. The Court held that the right to bear arms was not a fundamental right and deemed the act's provisions constitutional because they had a rational basis and had relevance to the purpose of the statute. The Court also restated its earlier holding in United States v. Miller (1939): "[T]he Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.'" The political debate about gun ownership remains rigorous.""

Both those rulings show that most of the time when talking about the right to own a gun it isn't the 2nd amendment we should be arguing. I've said this many times in the past using the 1939 ruling as evidence.

We instead use Amendment IX. Amendment IX is probably the most ignored of the amendments and is the most important. We have let congress end round that amendment for almost since it was written.

Rugian
Member
Mon Nov 22 18:11:04
I myself am curious about why jergul is only focusing on the 2nd Amendment.

Using jergulogic, why should not prisoners have full 4th Amendment provisions as well?
Habebe
Member
Mon Nov 22 20:30:31
"habebe
Vaccine mandates and SALT are also well established."

No one ever argued that salt was illegal. Your not making much sense here.

SALT was reduced by an act of Congress.
Habebe
Member
Mon Nov 22 20:30:32
"habebe
Vaccine mandates and SALT are also well established."

No one ever argued that salt was illegal. Your not making much sense here.

SALT was reduced by an act of Congress.
Y2A
Member
Mon Nov 22 22:00:07
seems pretty clear that he's a life long scumbag that the system found impossible to retain and this is the result.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Nov 22 23:06:28
"seems pretty clear that he's a life long scumbag that the system found impossible to retain"

Why not execute proven career criminals so as to protect society?
Y2A
Member
Mon Nov 22 23:12:39
i agree that something needs to be done about life long violent career criminals. having a way of having their aggregate violent offenses over their lifetime weigh on their sentence seems reasonable. also we really should have a way to indefinitely institutionalize the violent mentally ill.
Y2A
Member
Mon Nov 22 23:14:21
man, what if that little dancing toddler would have been hit and killed because this scumbag had a bad day. really really tired of the people.
Y2A
Member
Mon Nov 22 23:14:39
*these
nhill
Member
Mon Nov 22 23:31:07
There was at least 1 body chalk around a banged up bloody stroller, so I don't think 3 is the youngest he hit. Some morbid videos & photos are out there.

This guy should have been removed from the gene pool a long time ago.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Nov 23 00:20:21
[Y2A]: "also we really should have a way to indefinitely institutionalize the violent mentally ill."

Gotham needs to re-open Arkham Asylum. This guy should not see beyond prison walls for the rest of his life. He had plenty of chances.

..
[Rugian]: "You know you're arguing in good faith when your premise boils down to "well either convicted murderers can own guns in prison or you don't believe in gun rights." [/] A person who makes such an argument is clearly worthy of debate."

Yup. I was willing to play with Jergul's absurdity there to a certain point because, like Forwyn pointed out, many or most felons who have served their time should not be deprived of their Second Amendment protections (e.g., felony convictions for non-violent crimes), but putting forth the argument that someone *currently* serving in jail or prison should be allowed to carry? Yeah, no. That's just Jergul hoping that people will give him a class on U.S. law while he puts forth zero effort.

[jergul]: "Vaccine mandates ... are also well established."

Yeah, no. Despite the Politburo's efforts at disguising the reality, there is no U.S. precedent for *federal* vaccine mandates. All previous vaccine mandates have been enacted at the state level and lower. The federal government can typically only mandate onto its own employees (e.g., military mandates).

If you Google this, you will invariably see the Politburo (via NPR, NBC, WSJ, etc.) trying to disguise this reality by talking about the Supreme Court's decision regarding Jacobson v. Massachusetts and mandates for smallpox. But, what they attempt to disguise is that the federal government has not mandated smallpox vaccines — individual states and cities did. All *states* similarly require vaccination against polio, but the federal government never attempted that power.
http://www...ns-since-long-before-covid-19/

The Biden/Obama/Soros/K.Schwab White House is attempting to set the precedent so that they can control individual bodies. I hope we all appreciate an end run around the Nuremberg Code as "emergencies" get freely declared so that BigPharma can put shots into bodies with the full approval of the state. You'll accept Pfizer and Moderna boosters for now, then the flu shots, then whatever the fuck else they want, since your bodily protections will be legally gone. #FascismWillBeGoodThisTime

..
[CC]: "I'm lightly using the precedent set by DNC Politburo. If misdemeanor trespassing on the Capitol Building is terrorism (like 9/11), then murder is like 9/11 times a *thousand*. That's right. Nine hundred and eleven *thousand*."
[murder]: "You mean trying to stop the transition of power and install a dictator."

If you want to use the DNC's/Politburo's script and language ("dictator", "stop the transition of power" — both outright lies by the Politburo), then you have just similarly Ice-Nined DNC/BLM/Antifa/black bloc into terrorism, sedition, and insurrection by the Politburo's own definitions.

I.e., I'm talking facetiously in regards to the propaganda language used by the Politburo. They have called even the misdemeanor offenses of January 6th "insurrection" and convinced their useful idiots of the "truth" of this. So, if the bar sits at that level (their level), then they admit to their active insurrection.

Alternatively, if we admit the Politburo's lies, then January 6th events at the Capitol were not an insurrection, and the Politburo's useful idiots might just be forced to learn the actual motivations behind the protest and how the Politburo manipulated optics in their favor to set the stage for their fascist takeover.

..
[Paramount]: "Okay. But if they put children on the road then the least thing the police could do is to block the road from traffic. The organizers, the parents and the police neglected the safety."
[habebe]: "Paramount, Yeah, normally for this sort of thing neon orange barricades are put up blocking the street.Often Police cars or the organizers will park on an angle in front of the barricades as a double measure."
[tw]: "there's video of him going through the barricades at the end of route"

Yeah, I read an account saying that the vehicle ran through a barrier to enter, another saying, "barricades", but it may just be talking about the barriers/barricades that the driver hit while exiting the parade route (which was caught on video). I haven't found video or testimony of where the vehicle entered or how that entrance was set up. This is the most detailed play-by-play I've seen, but it admits that no images currently exist before 4:39 PM:
http://hcabarbieri.it/2021/11/22/waukesha-christmas-parade-horror-timeline-of-how-the-carnage-unfolded/

This would mean that the driver entered at Buckley Street / N East Avenue or White Rock Avenue / Pleasant Street, which is near the parade start.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 23 00:23:03
Kargen
I can give many examples of vaccine mandates. The US method was often to make school mandatory, then require that children be vaccinated to go to school.

"[T]he Second Amendment guarantees no right to keep and bear a firearm that does not have 'some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.'"

The connection between prisons, felons, and regulated militia is well-established internationally. See strafniki or punitive units.

Ruggy
Many inconsistencies are found in your system. Right now I am arguing about the 2nd amendment.

Habebe
Try to keep up. You cited established law as a reason for why something cannot be changed. Vaccine mandates and SALT are established principles that can be changed.

Y2A and nhill
Supporting second amendment rights in prisons would resolve most concerns you might have about crimes that insult public sensibilities.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 23 00:24:19
In the last point it would ultimate provide the means for truly underdesirables to be judged by a jury of their true peers with extreme prejudice.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 23 00:28:14
Also. Less black heritage than Rittenhouse.

http://gyazo.com/b819e98ecc7bfaf93f365e260e4e8968
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 23 00:30:37
We should start sending our criminals to Australia again.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Nov 23 00:39:14
"We should start sending our criminals to Australia again."

Or Austria. They're both effectively run as penal colonies again.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 23 00:59:44
You sent your criminals to Australia?

Anyway, statistically, they are right where they belong.

http://wor...ngs/prison-population-by-state

You also think active self defense principles while honouring 2nd amendment rights would not help with your prisoner population issues?
kargen
Member
Tue Nov 23 01:21:29
"I can give many examples of vaccine mandates. The US method was often to make school mandatory, then require that children be vaccinated to go to school."
You can't give one example of a federal mandate other than with military personnel and as Cherub Cow pointed out other federal employees. If you could you would have.

"International law is typically a part of U.S. law only for the application of its principles on questions of international rights and duties. International law, however, does not restrict the United States or any other nation from making laws governing its own territory."

Basically what that means is it doesn't really matter what the fuck the rest of the world does with their criminals the US is free to do as they please with theirs under their own laws.

And bringing up one of the most atrocious policies of WWII doesn't help your argument.

nhill
Member
Tue Nov 23 01:24:53
"You sent your criminals to Australia?" Technically Britain did, but I meant it as a global "we". :p
nhill
Member
Tue Nov 23 01:27:01
> You also think active self defense principles while honouring 2nd amendment rights would not help with your prisoner population issues?

No, our prison system is a joke, and you just linked to why. Don't play coy with me sonny. ;) I mean special criminals, like this cat, that had a rap sheet 10 feet long. Ship 'em out.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 23 01:31:16
Kargen
I also cannot give a single example of Marsians having a vaccine mandate.

What can be resolved at State level should be resolved at State level. In this case the widespread forced vaccinations of State populations.

Establishing felons in well regulated militia is a low bar and international examples are highly relevant. Obvious really. How are you going to defeat domestic tyrants if all they need do is declare people felons to take away their 2nd amendment rights?

More relevant than say thinking people outside the age of selective services enlistment have a part to play in a well regulated militia.

Do you want the government to take way 2nd amendment rights for anyone above the age of 38 due to age requirements in a well-regulated militia?

Like I said, if you accept that the Constitution is negotiable, then it is only a question of time before you lose its protections.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 23 10:20:36
Called it, ledt wing terrorism.

BLM anti white and anti semetic views.

http://twi...?t=cHkdh1sRSTSmHWY97iqeyA&s=19
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 23 10:26:39
Some on the left already seem to support this monster as the dealer of Karma for the rittenhouse verdict.

http://twi...?t=qFy22vhyO8nihTvc23yQ8g&s=19

Apparently "Antifa journalist" is a thing and they are supporting this guy too.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 23 10:36:56
http://twi...?t=9-1YrtNjWqAq8ORLfGhf_Q&s=19

Here henis talking about attacking white people especially the elderly.

A true woke hero.

Imagine this, he is another pedophile too (child sex offender list)

Once again, Andy Ngo is on the ball.
jergul
large member
Tue Nov 23 12:06:16
Irrelevant evidence as we saw with Rittenhouse (female beater who expressed supremasist views - both of which suppressed at trial).

Also, you do not have a left wing. Also, what is with the agist angle? Cannot the elderly have weapos for active self-defense?
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 23 12:18:30
http://twi...?t=emiOecNT0AJPRtZnpca54Q&s=19

Clearly a BLM communists have come for war on Christmas.

Kargen, Your a psychic...lol.
Habebe
Member
Tue Nov 23 12:33:04
Jergul, For trial that most likely will be suppressed unlessnhebhas terrible lawyers who bring up character on the stand.
habebe
Member
Wed Dec 22 02:50:10
t
show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message:
Bookmark and Share