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Utopia Talk / Politics / SALT taxes- Do they have the votes?
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 07:23:41
They are literally voting while I type.

So far only 1 Democrat voted against it, but I suspect more will.

What is their lead in the house now? 2?
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 07:34:35
Why not compromise and income adjust the cap?

So rural North Carolina, the cap would be 10k, In Los Angeles it would be 300k

That seems a fair way to do it considering how much purchasing power varies across the union.

It would also mean that most demographics will get the cap they want.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 07:41:07
"That seems a fair way to do it considering how much purchasing power varies across the union."

If I choose to live in Beverley hills should I get tax breaks to subsidize my choice toblive in expensive areas?

Im fundamentally opposed to subsidizing high cost areas at the expense of evertone else.

It looks like they have the votes for the house.We will see in the Senate.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 07:45:16
Let me ask this, if someone decided to rent the most expensive property in rural N. Carolina, lets say for sake of argument he lived at a Ritz Carlton there.

Why would he not get that tax cut of his expenses are more?
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 19 07:48:24
Your political philosophy is fascinating to me, habebe.

"The federal government should spend and borrow unlimited amounts of money as long as it benefits ME, fuck those homeowners in Jersey though.

Also, legal drugs and no private prisons. Because, again, ME."
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 19 07:48:54
I actually kind of admire the naked self-interest. Its refreshingly honest, at least.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 07:59:58
It seems odd to me that one would actively vote against their self interests.

But the topic is SALT taxes.

Lets break down what they really are and really do.

They are tax breaks for mostly millionaires to kive outsidenthwir normal means.

People pay more to live in more desirable areas, yes?

Why should only locales that tax excessively benefit? If it's too much tonliventhere, the people should move elsewhere.

I assure you 30 minutes outside of many of these areas are plenty of more affordable options.

This encourages rising housing expenses while also enshrining in the tax code that the wealthy should cluster into a handfull of cities.

Do you also think that we should pay out SS checks based on the median cost of an area?

I bet plenty of senior citizens would move to more costlier areas as well.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 08:24:00
As for drugs, I beleive in mitigating the negative side effects.Clearly the war on drugs only made things far worse.

Private prisons?This falls into me being against adding a government backed financial incentive to enslave people.

Taking away life liberty and property are serious things, I think you would agree if you have any streak of libertarian left in you.

As such if someone is so horrible that they should be deprived of these we should be morenthan willing to pay for it through taxation.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 09:43:40
Jergul is also thinking that said money goes to benefit the state and or city.

When in reality it really goes to much smaller uber wealthy neighborhoods.Look at any high tax city from NYC,LA,Chicago

What good has come from this tax cut? All three locales are shit holes, very expensive shit holes.
Rugian
Member
Fri Nov 19 09:46:26
Habebe

Its called believing in principles of responsible and limited government.

But as to SALT. I am a big fan of federalism, and giving the states significant leeway in determining their own fiscal policies. This is philosophical as well as practical, as this sort of flexibility allows for a marketplace of ideas in which all 50 states can test for themselves which policies can work and which don't.

If California wants to be a socialist hellhole, that's their right. I'm not a fan of it, and I don't like it when they try to export their shitty ideas to the nation writ large, but clearly California voters want to be governed like cattle by a nanny state, so let them.

Given that, I don't mind if the federal government gives tax breaks for states with high costs of living. I also believe that the federal government already sweeps up way too much money and is far too large in size, so SALT is a way to starve it of revenue. Win win.

And for the record, I don't financially benefit from SALT deductions.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 10:11:30
Ig California wants to be a high tax hellhole then, they still can.This just means people there have to pay for it.

People often tout this myth of blue states subsidize red states.

But in fact the tax code favors the clustering of wealth in these areas while people on SS have to factor in cost of living so they will go to lower cost areas.

If it is fair to subsidize these high cost areas for millionaires, then we should be able to subsidize it for those on social security.

Shouldn't we pay those on SS twice as much to live in Beverly Hills as we do those who live in NC?

Its the same principle.

Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 10:13:42
"If California wants to be a high tax hellhole then, they still can.This just means people there have to pay for it."

Basically I'm asking these areas to justify their tax rates fairly.

No one cares about throwing money in the ground if you dont pay for it.It encourages wasteful spending and inefficient government.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:02:18
habebe
Your 10k tax break is the equivalent of a 300k tax break in beverly hills relative to regional income.

So yes, obviously fair. And also, your region will tend to get the SALT tax break it thinks is appropriate.

And whats up with artifically low wages in those areas anyway? Do you have any idea how much your are stealing from the Federal government by keeping wages low?
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:04:20
http://gyazo.com/a8b00a1c338180eda8dffe4a37ffba1c

Mic drop.

Start paying your own way. Blue states cant fund the federal government all alone you know.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:05:52
Per capita? Sure. As soon as you make the Senate per capita.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:09:28
You know what they say. No taxation without representation.

How many federal tax dollars are there per Senate seat in North Dakota compared to say California?
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:11:08
The UK actually did keep their version of the Senate (The house of lords). But it has largely been assigned the dustbin of history due to its inherently undemocratic nature.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 11:11:11
"Your 10k tax break is the equivalent of a 300k tax break in beverly hills relative to regional income."

Yes, but again, choosing to live there and pay those costs, no one is forcing them to purchase this service.

Simple solution is for those local areas should be accountable for what they tax.

It would cost a bunch more tonlive at the ritz Carlton, should we gice tax breaks for That?

Choosing to live in an area that is put of one's limits, shouldn't be subsidized by the rest.

We are not talking about people who it would be expensive or hard to move.

If your making 600k a year you can afford some uhauls.
Forwyn
Member
Fri Nov 19 11:13:23
"clearly California voters want to be governed like cattle by a nanny state, so let them."

The problem is that these aren't across the board cuts, they simultaneously push general increases with exceptions for themselves, undoubtedly pushing the net spender/recipient state myth as a component.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 11:14:02
"Start paying your own way. Blue states cant fund the federal government all alone you know."

Well, duh. The tax code favors clustering the wealthy in thosenlocales while incentivizing senior citizens on SS to lower cost areas.

Mic drop

Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 11:14:59
Its not a glitch, it's a feature.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:15:13
California is paying way more of its share to the union. I already provided the link.
jergul
large member
Fri Nov 19 11:16:23
You are not paying your way and yet you want the states that pay the most to pay even more.

That is some great welfare queen attitude right there.
Habebe
Member
Fri Nov 19 11:17:07
States do not pay taxes.
murder
Member
Fri Nov 19 11:29:11

Enjoy your lower cost of living and excess federal funds and quit your bitching.

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