Utopia Talk / Politics / Rittenhouse V

jergul large member	Thu Nov 18 22:59:22 Sammy Yes, that is my whole point. The self-defense of one does not negate the self-defense of others. Its one of the oddities of the trial. Rittenhouse may very well succeed with self-defense, but that does not mean others would fail in claiming the same for their actions to stop him. Kargen You have school and church shootings with way less than 5 reasonable people. Sometimes the number is 0. He was an active shooter. Any reasonable person would think so. The mistake here was to confront him, not shoot him. That is the lesson to be learned from the trial. At worst, let the jury sort it out. I think you believe the right to self-defense is only valid for people who are similar to you. That would be an incorrect belief.
Forwyn Member	Thu Nov 18 23:20:30 "jergul large member Thu Nov 18 22:41:08 You do recognize that none of those you are trying to frame as attackers have been charged, right?" Lmfao. jergul appealing to the authority of the evidence-witholding prosecution. This is the same guy that automatically believed the corporate MSNBC line claiming innocence after the dude said he was following the jury because his bosses told him to.
kargen Member	Fri Nov 19 00:23:44 "He was an active shooter." Then why wasn't he actively shooting?
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 03:40:50 Do we know more about MSNBC kidnapping attempt? James J. Morrison , employee of MSNBC, freelancer for NBC. Been working since 1986 for different companies. Other than that not much on him as he scrubs himself from the internet
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 03:41:38 Kargen He was actively shooting. Most likely in self-defense. But that does not negate others acting in self-defense versus an active shooter. Forwyn Are you even disputing my point? It seemed to me that you understood that the self-defense of one does not void the self-defense of others.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 03:42:00 Was the producer armed? Was he an active shooter?
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 03:44:05 As to the NBC stuff. Geeze, so fucking what? Or what was the freelancer charged with in your mind?
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 03:45:59 habebe Got it. You think people should not intervene if they see an active shooter. Seems quite a shift from rent-a-cop blaming when one of them opted out of confrontation at some school shooting or another. Very civilized of you.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 05:09:37 Im more concered about the active kidnapper. If kyle can be perceived as an active shooter while running away from his attackers. Then how is this guy stalking jurors in a van! Not a kidnapper to was stopped by police?
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 05:11:02 Perhaps it was just left wing goons trying to make the ury vote the "correct way"
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 05:32:16 How is it that a person shooting at 4 people is not an active shooter in your mind? I think the narrative is confusing you. "Teenager, 17 shoots and kills 1. Teenager is shot dead by a bystander" Is a different story where you never get to know Rittenhouses inner narrative or what he wanted to do.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 05:33:11 Frankly, that narrative sounds like something we would have in a Guess the Race thread. I would have guessed black.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 05:41:22 How is someone in a van at night stalking a bus of jurors who have the windows blocked out amongst other great lengths to conceal their identity not attempting a kidnapping?!
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 05:42:14 "Frankly, that narrative sounds like something we would have in a Guess the Race thread. I would have guessed black." No one is denying your a blatant racist.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 06:01:29 If he does go to jail I bet therenis money to be made selling free Kyle shirts and buttons. Mock Kyle for Congress merch. Konami would never give the rights to sell a contra clone in Kenosha. All around merchandising moment.
murder Member	Fri Nov 19 06:08:08 "Of course you do. 30 medium energy rounds at a time with 0 kickback, good aim, easy to use, reliable. The modern "assault" rifle is the greatest self defense weapon ever made. Long ago, when i lived near negroville, we had them for self defense all the time." Nobody carries a rifle around for self-defense. Absent a sniper duel, you can't legally shoot someone at a distance and claim self-defense. Well you can if you live in the racist shithole parts of the US, but I'm talking about civilization.
murder Member	Fri Nov 19 06:25:57 "I think you believe the right to self-defense is only valid for people who are similar to you. That would be an incorrect belief." Actually the problem is that he's not wrong. The law is the law, but the law is not applied equally.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 06:47:32 Murder Yah. I was speaking more to the ethics than to the practice.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 06:48:26 Habebe My guess would mostly be based on blacks being forced to mature faster because of social and economic structures.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 19 08:37:04 "blacks being forced to mature faster because of social and economic structures" This sounds like a statement that needs, you know, evidence?
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 10:50:52 Does it? I think it more a matter of definitions. What do I mean by mature?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 19 10:53:58 That would be a great place to start.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 10:55:44 http://www...-profile-of-unmarried-parents/ My logic being that single parent households in poverty force children into more adult roles early. Including gunslinging gangsta adult roles.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 10:55:47 I searched for black matures and uhm, Im not sure we're all on the same page.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 10:56:46 Note that the description actually matches for Rittenhouse. Odds are that the person described is black however.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 10:58:15 habebe Do try to keep up.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 19 11:06:55 Jergul I would not necessarily call that "force them to mature faster". Many things going on there for sure, but no one is actually maturing faster into "adult roles" as I see it. It does not really capture the failure, since maturing into adult roles is generally a positive development. It is debatable if gang banging is an adult role.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 19 11:10:26 On the other hand, there is actually evidence that individuals of African lineages, go into puberty about a year sooner than those of European lineages. Again, a lot of things going on there, where I can see how that systematically will put kids, often boys, in trouble.
murder Member	Fri Nov 19 11:27:20 Who are you calling a boy? :o)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 19 11:29:57 It is not obvious that children being "forced" into adult roles is a bad thing. It depends on the role, right? If someone is "forced" to mature faster due to external circumstances and becomes a decent upstanding citizen and business owner, that would be a good thing that would make a parent proud. Personally, not a fan of extending childhood beyond what the children can manage, as soon as the mother fucker is ready to wipe his own ass, he is gonna wipe his own ass! I think the salient point of the article you posted, is the lack of (male) role models to mature into. The faster they can mature into decent adult roles, the better! In my view, what your description does is add confusion to what we already know and can describe as "people from broken homes grow up to live broken lives" in about as many words as you used. No need for additional definitions.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Nov 19 11:33:28 Murder Right.. I meant cis-gendered prepubescent males.
murder Member	Fri Nov 19 11:47:58 I'm not sure that's less offensive but it's not part of the racist bingo game so I'll let it slide.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 12:05:49 verdict incoming...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 12:14:04 not guilty on all... he's blubbering again
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 12:20:08 Dissmissed with prejudice!
obaminated Member	Fri Nov 19 12:47:02 Time to sue biden and the squad for declaring him a white supremacist and domestic terrorist. As the great king aerys the 2nd said, burn them all.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 12:48:01 Thank God! Now we will just have to see if state appeals weapon charge.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 12:48:58 And the civic cases of course :D
murder Member	Fri Nov 19 12:59:09 And whether the feds will charge him and the moron that purchased the rifle for him ... with his stimulus check.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 13:11:04 http://youtu.be/fKIwj1TQmFs ^Jergul and Murder right now.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 13:14:24 the prosecutor said during trial he was already charging Kyle's weapon supplier for the straw purchase Kyle now needs charged for impersonating an EMT
murder Member	Fri Nov 19 13:16:34 No. Kyle needs to catch one in the melon.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 19 13:29:52 Lol the left wing is gonna be butthurt.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 19 13:35:59 Lol the msnbc retards are melting down because a mostly white jury in a mostly white county decided a trial where the shooter and shot were all white. This is proof america is racist. Ban fox news and vote dem.
Forwyn Member	Fri Nov 19 14:06:52 "Kyle now needs charged for impersonating an EMT" Lol cry
Pillz Member	Fri Nov 19 14:09:23 Murder, jergul, tw, Seb all pwnd GG Kyle clean those streets
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:13:22 NOT GUILTY! Suck it Antifa commies!
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:16:59 The leftist meltdown has already begun lol. ACLU of Maryland @ACLU_MD Dangerous, disgusting, unacceptable white supremacy in #RittenhouseVerdict http://mobile.twitter.com/ACLU_MD/status/1461764002229460995
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:17:51 Mayor Bill de Blasio @NYCMayor Anthony Huber and Joseph Rosenbaum are victims. They should be alive today. The only reason they’re not is because a violent, dangerous man chose to take a gun across state lines and start shooting people. To call this a miscarriage of justice is an understatement. http://mob...yor/status/1461761720939167745
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:19:25 Gavin Newsom @GavinNewsom America today: you can break the law, carry around weapons built for a military, shoot and kill people, and get away with it. That’s the message we’ve just sent to armed vigilantes across the nation. http://mob...som/status/1461769436952551425
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:20:22 Cori Bush @CoriBush The judge. The jury. The defendant. It’s white supremacy in action. This system isn’t built to hold white supremacists accountable. It’s why Black and brown folks are brutalized and put in cages while white supremacist murderers walk free. I’m hurt. I’m angry. I’m heartbroken. http://mob...ush/status/1461776152255774722
kargen Member	Fri Nov 19 14:26:09 "He was actively shooting. Most likely in self-defense." "How is it that a person shooting at 4 people is not an active shooter in your mind?" Got to go back to this. We were talking about the actions of the people that were shot in the 2nd incident. So at that time only one person had been shot and that had taken place in a different location and at least a minute earlier. "The agreed-upon definition of active shooter by US government agencies (including the White House, US Department of Justice, FBI, US Department of Education, US Department of Homeland Security, and Federal Emergency Management Agency) is “an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a confined and populated area.” " At the time of the 2nd incident Rittenhouse did not fit the criteria of an active shooter.
kargen Member	Fri Nov 19 14:37:38 MSNBC was quick to start the time to rethink the 2nd amendment argument. CNN is mostly leaning towards the prosecution screwed up in presenting the case and that is why the jury was confused and decided not guilty. Within the few minutes after the verdict was announced outside MSNBC misidentified a protestor and interviewed them. The person went on a tirade about systemic racism and how this case proves that and said the fight was not over. They then interviewed a "random" person who expressed concern that white supremist were just given an out to kill anybody they wanted and opined even the press could be killed because a microphone could be mistaken for a gun. CNN while talking had a protestor in the background holding up a sign about justice not being done and another sign about the blood of those killed being on the hands of Trump. They covered it from the perspective of the families of the people Rittenhouse shot. FOX spent their time saying see I told you and covering from the perspective of Rittenhouse. In the background behind the reporter was a protestor or I guess counter protestor holding a sign that said free Kyle. Lawyers on CNN and FOX in the last hour have said the jury reached the decision that was expected. CNN still says prosecution dropped the ball while FOX says defense correctly presented the case. MSNBC is saying the judge proves that racism still exists at all levels.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:40:07 "MSNBC was quick to start the time to rethink the 2nd amendment argument. ... MSNBC is saying the judge proves that racism still exists at all levels." Lmao Joy Ann "pro-democracy" Reid is going to be must-watch TV tonight.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 14:45:21 Tucker had the best take of the entire trial. "Joseph rosenbaum died the way he lived.Trying to touch an unwilling minor" *rim shot*
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 14:46:24 Kargen Perhaps a jury will have to ponder the self-defense issue for a day or two when such a scenario materializes. "Teenager (17) killed by bystander after he shot a man" can be our Guess the race thread that week.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 14:47:19 Habebe I take it you aren't going to spare a moment for Rosenbaum's family? "Joy-Ann (Pro-Democracy) Reid Face with medical mask @JoyAnnReid While we’re out reacting and processing the Rittenhouse verdict, please spare a thought for the families of Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber, who are mourning, and for Gaige Grosskreutz and Jacob Blake. There is nothing here but tragedy, and these families are in pain."
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 14:47:28 Funny that Tucker felt the need to distinguish between willing and unwilling minors.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 14:58:10 http://twi...?t=KUphTxketR37iCrrSGr4Qg&s=19 Reasonable reactions. Totally normal. *summoning TWs sarcasm*
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 15:00:38 Rugian, Well, I think the world is better off without him. However a families pain ofnlossnis still real.I wish them peace of mind.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 15:13:49 Habebe, that tweet got deleted.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 15:17:26 Gaetz, Gosar & Cawthorne (3 assholes who make our laws) have all offered Kyle internships
obaminated Member	Fri Nov 19 15:18:24 Btw. That is how the kid cries.
obaminated Member	Fri Nov 19 15:19:30 Why doesn't he deserve an internship and a medal? He saved lives and killed criminals.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 15:22:33 "He saved lives" yeah right... they were constantly murdering... just like the McCloskeys escaped death
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 15:22:51 Tumbleweed thinks rioters are heroes and people defending neighborhoods are white supremacists. Lol. Tw's entire worldview is based in misinformation.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 15:24:47 Remember this "factcheck?" https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/sep/01/donald-trump/trump-paints-false-picture-kyle-rittenhouse-shooti/ Pure Democratic Party propaganda. Hopefully Rittenhouse sues politifact into oblivion, together with CNN, MSNBC, and all the other scumbag misinformation outlets.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 15:25:05 http://www...cture-kyle-rittenhouse-shooti/
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 15:32:43 "He would have been — I — he probably would have been killed." ~ Trump... nope, not probably ----- "All hail Kyle Rittenhouse, Champion of Antioch, Savior of Kenosha, Slayer of Pedophiles! All hail the conquering hero!" ~ "Revolver 'news'"... the sole source Tucker used to claim FBI led Jan 6th
Hrothgar Member	Fri Nov 19 15:39:47 I don't think this is a bad judgement given the circumstances. Anyone can see the kid would have been scared for his life in the situation and certainly faced physical attack moments. I do think it's unfortunate (yet again) how polarizing this is, when the reality is so much better expressed in the phrase "The kid defended himself. Also he should never have been there in the first place". Both statements are true.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 15:41:49 Hrothgar Sure, he probably shouldn't have been there. The rioters shouldn't have been there either though.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 19 16:14:08 I love all these retarded left-wing politicians weighing in on verdict in a district far away while they enable 1000 times as much death with peo-crime policies in their own districts.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 19 16:19:06 It is disturbing how many retards listen to blatant liars in power, whether media or pols. Between the left on rittenhouse and the right on vaccines, its pretty clear that a significant subset of humanity is too stupid, and should not be allowed to vote, speak, or procreate.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 19 16:21:31 Sammy That may very well be true. In your country. Rittenhouse would not even have been a thing he 8-12 years. Out after 4. At least two of the year with full university credits for free.
Rugian Member	Fri Nov 19 16:37:26 Here's the DCCC peddling misinformation in a blatant attempt to incite more "peaceful protests" against the verdict: http://mob...osh/status/1461795391263891463 By the Democrats' own pro-censorship standards, this easily qualifies for them to be kicked off of social media.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 19 17:18:58 http://mob...ler/status/1461775482496724998 Its amazing how much a left wing politician can lie in one tweet. Even trump never concentrated so much idiocy at once.
kargen Member	Fri Nov 19 17:44:34 "Justice cannot tolerate armed persons crossing state lines looking for trouble while people engage in First Amendment-protected protest." I will agree with Nadler on that. I think that statement is true. I don't see how it has anything at all to do with the Rittenhouse trial though.
Habebe Member	Fri Nov 19 18:08:28 "Hrothgar Sure, he probably shouldn't have been there. The rioters shouldn't have been there either though." Yup.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 19 21:25:59 The far left is marching through Brooklyn waving palestinian flags and chanting about burning all police. Lol. Wheres Rittenhouse when you need him.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Nov 19 21:28:50 “The next Congress must pass legislation proclaiming November 19th “Kyle Rittenhouse Day,” a new Federal Holiday“ ~ a state Rep of Florida who is running for Congress also apparently Tucker had a team embedded with Kyle the whole time and has a ‘documentary’ coming out
obaminated Member	Fri Nov 19 22:46:25 Good
TheChildren Member	Sat Nov 20 01:02:41 shithole xposed what ya all gotta say now
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 20 03:39:35 "Wheres Rittenhouse when you need him." In a glass case at the capital with a sign "Break in case of of hippies"
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 04:01:49 Hopefully not a case with metal lining. Rittenhouse sure cries a lot. We would not want corrosion.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 04:12:36 But feel free to continue to spin the "tuff guy who got away with murder" narrative. It is funny.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 20 04:36:03 Euro news seemed angry.Not full on msnbc ...well whatever that Was. But I think their gripe could be summed up as Kyle was walking around with an AR-15.That angers them.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 05:01:59 Not more so that any other savage waving an AR-15 or AK-47 around. We generally frown on cults, no matter the fetish.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 05:07:22 Also, my god you people are fat.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 20 05:56:03 Also males who sit to pee dont gwt to make fun of anyone for lack of manliness. Yes we are fat.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 20 07:04:41 Euro news is hopelessly biased trash. And the funny part is that people like jergul don't even realize it. Rofl. Classic Dunning Kruger effect.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 07:26:26 Classic cultists not accepting normal people think they are crazy.
Habebe Member	Sat Nov 20 07:31:59 Atleast Jergul admits it.
Forwyn Member	Sat Nov 20 09:00:01 Pretty Eurocentric of you jergul. Might be time to report to your nearest loyalty center for reconditioning.
Forwyn Member	Sat Nov 20 09:00:09 Pretty Eurocentric of you jergul. Might be time to report to your nearest loyalty center for reconditioning.
Rugian Member	Sat Nov 20 09:15:23 It's pretty funny, jergul claims to be anti-nationalist and yet he's the single biggest imperialist on here. Dude doesn't even consider the possibility that not everyone in the world can or wants to live like a wiggin.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 13:08:40 Ruggy and Forwyn What is with conservatards and projection?
kargen Member	Sat Nov 20 19:26:40 "But feel free to continue to spin the "tuff guy who got away with murder" narrative" That is mostly your narrative. Our narrative is it was self defense all the way. The only aggressors are either injured or dead.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Nov 20 20:35:21 So toxic.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 20 21:15:32 Kargen My narrative is that he is an inmature kid with poor emotional control. Well, if the others are aggressors, then their estates should be sued in civic courts and the living one charged with assault. Everyone involved except the first one could all have killed and been argued self-defense. Which reminds me. I wonder what the civic course will land on with the balance of probability and doubt not benefiting the defender in particular. He may be exactly as innocent as OJ in the end.
kargen Member	Sat Nov 20 21:59:31 For a civil suit to be successful Rittenhouse would need to show damages. I think he probably could but there are lot larger fish he can go after in a civil suit. Immature and poor emotional control doesn't matter in the verdict. Hard to say on the emotion part though until you are put in that kind of situation. They may have argued self defense but under Wisconsin law they would have failed. You can't chase a person initiate the confrontation and claim self defense. That Kyle was running from them takes away any self defense claims they would have. The families are not going to sue Rittenhouse. They already announced their intentions to sue the city for failure to provide protection because the police were ordered to withdraw. They might win.
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