Utopia Talk / Politics / Just be honest

Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Mar 04 10:24:04 I often find myself as a mediator between ("professional") people who refuse to be honest with each other about their opinions and opinions. So, they end up talking past each other and reading in their fears and biases into every interaction. Yet, to the in-between guy, the "mediator", it is quite clear they are saying basically the same thing. So, you tell one of them, I think you should talk to them and explain all the things you just told me, because talking to you both, it is obvious to me, you are on the same wavelength. No no, better you "leak" (what I am saying) to them. i.e don't even mention we spoke...?!?
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Mar 04 10:29:15 I know people in your situation. My advice to them invariably to extricate yourself from those interactions and let them handle their own business. It may end well for you sometimes, but eventually you'll be sorry you allow interactions like that with other people.
Wrath of Orion Member	Thu Mar 04 10:29:51 And by that I mean don't even listen to their woes/bitching/complaining/whatever. Just tell them you're busy and you're sorry.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 04 10:52:26 Nim: Oh my god this is my life - only the reverse - there is a certain school of thought in senior UK management and civil service policy people that the best way to manage ambiguity and/or conflict it to avoid certainty if they think there is a danger of disagreement in the hope it will work itself out but will instead be a much bigger car crash than if they thrashed it out at the begining.
Seb Member	Thu Mar 04 10:53:31 Or do you mean on personal rather than professional issues?
patom Member	Thu Mar 04 11:15:03 Most of my working life I was driving a truck. Just me behind the wheel and I had nobody pushing me harder than myself. When I went to work at the Jail, the hardest thing I had to deal with was the personnel working there. Figuring out the different factions and their reactions to similar situations and many of them coming to me and feeding me one line while at the same time feeding someone else a different line. I was totally unprepared and made mistakes of judgement. It didn't get better until I finally had had enough of this BS. It got ugly a few times but I let it be known that I wasn't going to listen to any of their BS.
TJ Member	Thu Mar 04 12:13:46 Why do you often find yourself mediating between individuals who you believe aren't being honest about their opinions? How and why did you choose one over the other in an attempt to eliminate their mental roadblocks? The reason for your involvement isn't clear. I find your second paragraph inconsistent from the first, example below. "So, you tell one of them, I think you should talk to them and explain all the things you just told me," Who is them? Just being honest. Maybe I have a comprehension failure. ;) Considering the OP concerns language barriers.
TJ Member	Thu Mar 04 12:19:51 Seb Member Thu Mar 04 10:53:31 Or do you mean on personal rather than professional issues? That is an important distinction.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Mar 04 12:37:16 I wish it was personal issues, but these are profession related projects, and not trivial stuff, like what color to paint the hallways, but what supporting systems to use in the future. Like WoO says, to some extent you feel you are doing good, hey I am bringing people together, but when it is the same people over the same fucking things for 2 years, you start to wonder. What is going on here, didn't we talk about this 6 months ago? You mean you have not talked with each other about this for 6 months? What are you doing in these meetings every week? Just be honest, and have faith that the other person is a grown up and that you can figure this out like grown ups. Do you have question about the method? You should ask. Do you fear there are pitfalls ahead? Talk about them clearly. Are we heading in the wrong direction? Share your opinion. Twice in the same project (4 different people) have had problems like this. I actually "threatened" them, saying: "this doesn't feel good, this is starting to feeling exactly like the other two people (who are no longer working here). You know what their problem was? They didn't talk to each other, but wouldn't lose an opportunity to talk about the other." I have no one to talk to, because there is only one of me where I work. You guys are my wailing wall. Strike these people down LORD.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Mar 04 12:54:13 TJ "Why do you often find yourself mediating between individuals" I have some theories, first of all the issues are not unrelated to me, I am in the project and so are these people, we talk, a lot. One is a consultant this time, the other a manager. Why me and no one else? Because I am not a very judgmental person, but I am honest about what I think. I listen to people and I try to understand them. That doesn't mean I get things right, but it does build trust. "Who is them?" This is me trying to keep things anonymous beyond the point where it even matters and onyl confuses. It's he and a she...it's always a he and she, at least in my experience.
TJ Member	Thu Mar 04 14:16:02 If it is some honesty you wish I'll give you some from my perspective. Making use of it is entirely up to you. The fact is that frustration isn't a lonely emotion. Stress feeds conflict and conflict breeds anger, resentment, and unhappiness. It is easy to become part of the problem under those conditions, not saying you are or aren't. Learning to manage emotions will lesson stress and assist in coming up with an acceptable solution if one is even possible. Set your self-reflection at its peak. I know it is a lot more difficult to do than to say, but I have faith in you reaching success. There are situations that will never be within our control. How you deal with it is what matters most. It is an impossible feat to beat your best effort. You either have the power to direct or you don't. That makes your answer pretty basic. When you don't have the instructive power the result can fall anywhere in the spectrum. From reading your posts you are in a rotational situation and that is not abnormal.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Mar 05 02:07:34 TJ Easier said than done indeed. You feel ”lucky” if you are aware enough to be on the third lesson of an advice someone gave you. You know what I mean? The third act of some wisedom, you see it play out infront of you and you are there and conscious enough to see it. And btw what a great technical description, ”rotational situation” :-)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Mar 05 06:58:09 Seb Btw, how to you mean from the other side?
Seb Member	Fri Mar 05 11:03:12 People repeatedly meeting on e.g. twice weekly basis to discuss and issue and both pretending they agree with each other on a position because they don't want the hassle of accepting they disagree and resolving it - and hoping they can get to the point where the fact they disagree is moot because the issue has gone to someone else and their mutually inconsistent position cannot be resolved is therefore not their problem.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Fri Mar 05 11:20:31 I understand.
werewolf dictator Member	Fri Mar 05 11:36:10 best to be a natural conformist who never has an independent thought.. if that's not in your dna and you want to watch out for #1.. then "read the room".. don't voice unpopular opinions.. never tell people things they don't want to hear.. and kiss the asses of those who have power over your fate.. unless you actually want to be forced to drink the hemlock especially true in 2021 america.. goddamn i thought the powers of groupthink was strong in 2003 before invading iraq.. but it was minimal compared to cancel culture and tech censorship and woke mobs demanding personal destructions and death threats.. in country that already had the power of selective prosecutions of #1 prison state where almost everything is against the law
TJ Member	Fri Mar 05 12:58:26 Everyone has an ego and there are only two ways we can train it, enemy or ally, but not both. It is impossible to eliminate our personal ignorance's in a life time. Absent challenge there can be no worthy growth.
obaminated Member	Fri Mar 05 14:28:36 Office politics suck. What i do is say as little about myself as possible and turn every question i get back onto the person asking. People love to talk about themselves. Learn and use it for yourself.
Y2A Member	Fri Mar 05 16:35:32 i work in a hyperpolitical environment, it sucks but the earnings justify putting up with the BS...for now.
Y2A Member	Fri Mar 05 16:43:32 honestly, this covid crisis has IMPROVED my mental health if anything. less time spent with crazy ppl trying to advance their careers and more with loving family.
Y2A Member	Fri Mar 05 16:52:04 to give you guys one example of the type of slimey toxic ppl i am talking about, there used to be a guy at my work with the ear of the CEO so he could do whatever he wanted (even obvious fuck ups were overlooked or swept away). one other guy managed the portfolio we oversaw and this guy had a daughter with cancer (daughter was a toddler). because of the cancer he would often have to leave early or WFH for her treatment. every time the guy was out, the other guy would start talking about how he wasn't there, how could he not be there and be the portfolio manager, etc... loud enough so that other higher ups could hear (not everyone knew his situation but the shit talker did). end of story, the guy with the kid with cancer got fired and the shit talking guy ended up leaving our company for the company that bought our portfolio for a huge pay raise.
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