Welcome to the Utopia Forums! Register a new account
The current time is Fri Mar 29 09:13:57 2024

Utopia Talk / Politics / FAO Shannon
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 05:54:58
http://pen...XED6sEVMUYwrsPPI4cwxxgYt2OpBiE

Couple of things to consider:

1. EU Keen to negotiate trade deal with Argentina.

2. Argentina has long wanted to make the Falklands economically dependent as part of their "joint sovereignty" strategy.

3. Falklands main export industry is fishing and main market is EU

4. Falklands is not part of the new UK EU trade deal.

Diplomatic win for EU and Argentina and the expense of UK and Falklands.

If you are not at the table, you are on the menu.

Well done Shannon.

Rugian
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:09:06
"The UK government raised the OTs in its main negotiations and, when the EU failed to engage, they narrowed their ask to the Falkland Islands and Tristan da Cunha. Eventually, EU negotiators made it clear that they did not have a mandate to negotiate on behalf of their own overseas countries and territories, and were therefore unwilling to discuss UKOTs."

"No mandate?" What bullshit. EU was just trying to find another way to fuck over the UK here.

And to think you once allowed this institution that clearly despises the UK to rule over you.
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:32:47
Not fuck over. A deal with Mercosur eased with a concession to Argentina is worth something to the EU. Meanwhile the UK has nothing it would withhold over falklands that the EU would value enough for EU MS to bash their overseas territories in line.

This isn't "fucking over" the UK, this is the UK not being important enough to the EU to outbid Argentina.

The EU didn't rule over us, rather as a powerful and influential member of that block we were able to use it as a platform to defend our interests.

Now we are not a member, there is no reason for the EU to our interests ahead of theirs. Why should the EU prefer to allow foreign fish into their markets competing with their fisherman when they can get a win-win by not doing that, and gaining Argentina's favour?

What does the UK offer instead that they don't already get?
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:33:18
Honestly Rugian, for someone who used to have this whole classical realism approach to foreign policy, you've lost the plot.
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:38:07
Now as a member, the UK could point out that many other member states overseas territories are contested and if the EU collectively adopted a position that favoured a foreign govt over a MS, then that could come back to bite them, and indeed the UKs votes for EU positions to protect other individual MS with contested overseas territories could not be relied upon if it's own overseas territories were not protected.

Indeed it relied on this approach to protect its territories in the Caribbean that are little more than bolt-holes for money laundering from the worst impacts of global anti money-laundering,tax evasion and corruption measures led by the US for decades.

Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:40:30
I suppose we could try withholding defence cooperation and intelligence sharing. But the US can actually will fill that easily.

It would only be valuable to the EU in context of an independent European capability led by the EU; which is against UK foreign policy.

Realistically then we would be trading a core UK interest to secure a not very important island.

Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 06:40:57
Maybe we should be calling this thread foreign politics 101.
smart dude
Member
Sun Jan 17 09:27:51
"Honestly Rugian, for someone who used to..."

have a woman?

have parents?

There's no reasoning with him. Hes like every other fat, resentful incel loser addicted to the internet who has nothing left to cling to but trolling on the internet.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Jan 17 14:45:47
Arent you glad you caused brexit with all your woke bullshit seb?
Seb
Member
Sun Jan 17 14:57:18
Brexit wasn't caused by woke shit Sam. It was caused by deranged sovereignty nonsense and xenophobia of the type you peddle.

Brexit, like Trumpism, is the logical consequence of Samism.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Jan 17 15:59:55
Sovereignty and xenophobia is a natural response to your woke bullshit.

You caused this.
Sam Adams
Member
Sun Jan 17 16:16:25
Seb pulls a pendulum back far one way.

"Durrrr why did it swing to the other way"
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 18 01:04:12
The Eurosceptic movement goes back to the 1970s Sam. Stop projecting. Anti racism didn't make you racist. You are just racist.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 18 04:29:08
"I was so triggered by the idea that we should not ethnically cleanse the UK, that I decided to destroy our trade relationship, it's all your fault because of the immigration that isn't actually happening!"

Is a ridiculous argument that, if it suggests anything, just suggests we shouldn't let people like you have the vote: too stupid and too emotional.


Sam Adams
Member
Mon Jan 18 05:03:59
Lol yep. Durrrrr pendulums
jergul
large member
Mon Jan 18 05:07:26
Sammy
The pendelum is still to the right of center. Its been there since M. Thatcher and R. Reagan.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jan 18 06:50:16
Not in the social and cultural sphere, where the left's views dominate. On economic policy the right 's view is the dominant one though. Both sides energized by their victory in one domain, are hoping to achcieve total victory.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 18 08:01:33
Nimatzo:

Sorry, that is not correct.

The UK has had the tightest migration standards and harshest treatment of refugees of most EU countries.

To suggest that the Brexit vote was a "revolt against wokeness" is nonsense.

There is more evidence to suggest it was a revolt against austerity (on the grounds that as the govt was supporting it, a vote against the EU was a vote against the govt and it's signature austerity policy).

There is a huge amount of research done into the brexit vote now - none of Sam's claims are supported.

The only element you can really point to is migration, but the kind of migration that leave talked about and Sam thinks of wasn't occurring and would be irrelevant to EU membership.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Jan 18 09:54:57
"The UK has had the tightest migration standards and harshest treatment of refugees of most EU countries."

Thats like one crack whore comparing herself to another crack whore... "i have fewer diseases than that one"

"There is a huge amount of research done into the brexit vote now"

Ahhh yes, noted researcher seb. Bahahahahaha
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 18 12:07:25
Sam:

You know, it's easier to get refugee status in the US than in the UK.


"Ahhh yes, noted researcher seb. Bahahahahaha"

1. I probably have have more published articles than you even given my last was in 2014.

2. What do I have to do with it? The research wasn't done by me. As Nim used to say to you , "Sebsesence, the flavour of desperation"
Dakyron
Member
Mon Jan 18 12:39:13
"1. I probably have have more published articles than you even given my last was in 2014. "

Are you sure? Given your inability to do simple math, one has to wonder if you even have the British equivalent of a GED.

"2. What do I have to do with it? The research wasn't done by me."

Is this an argument as to why Sam should take it seriously?
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Jan 18 13:15:41
"What do I have to do with it?"

You are not mentally fit enough to have an opinion on research.

It took you 8 months to learn that what you thought was mean was actually median.

"I probably have have more published articles"

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahajajahahaha

Lol. Even when he tries to brag he fails.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 18 13:26:28
Dakyron:

Hush, you so misunderstood a chart that you declared on the day Arazona hit peak infections that you were at a three month low.

Sam:

"You are not mentally fit enough to have an opinion on research."

It's not an opinion - it's a simple fact - lots of research has been done and data available on contributing factors to Brexit.

"Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahajajahahaha"

People who type out things like this are the kind of people that have to theatrically act up in social settings. It tends to tell you two things: they are play acting and insecure, and secondly, they are tremendously camp.
Seb
Member
Mon Jan 18 13:26:40
Or 14. That also.
Sam Adams
Member
Mon Jan 18 17:47:31
So seb... why arent you still a scientist?

Lol
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 01:08:04
Sam:
The pay is shit and the level of impact too indirect, nuclear fusion (my area of speciality) is economically illiterate, and I absolutely hated the whole process of writing papers up and getting published.

Now I get paid a lot more to solve challenging save novel real world problems instead using much the same skills.
Cloud Strife
Member
Tue Jan 19 05:38:27
LOL at ex-scientist Seb describe "science" in opposition to "real world problems".
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 19 06:12:20
CS
Its a well known issue. While I enjoy the Marvel franchise, I don't think Iron Man is representative of how things work.

Applied Science is hard.
Cloud Strife
Member
Tue Jan 19 06:46:42
Haha, yes clearly physics is less real than a bunch of suits sitting around spitting buzzwords at each other, nodding about how great of "leaders" they are, worshipping their money over a cup of coffee and a quarterly report.

Science is Marvel? Iron Man? Maybe it's Elon Musk, selling bullshit to idiots who want to think they're smarter than everyone else.

Atoms, pfft.. bunch of hogwash
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 06:59:55
Cloud Strife:

What do you think the man on the Clapham Omnibus would describe as a real world problem:

Assessing the degree of turbulence Vs diffusion in edge mode transport of tokamaks and stellarators - devices applicable only to delivering commercial effect but that are unlikely to deliver any tangible impact on the energy sector in the next 30 years,if ever.

Delivering £4.5Bn of savings to front line services

Reducing the administrative burden on teachers by 25%

Delivering the vaccination of the UK population for covid 19

To give a smattering of things I've done.

Granted, not all science can be as divorced from actual impact as my particular field. It was challenging and interesting but ultimately not that useful and so didn't give me job satisfaction. And other options in science research that were not so impactful felt a belt ache to get into.

Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 07:08:38
CS:

"yes clearly physics is less real than a bunch of suits sitting around spitting buzzwords at each other, nodding about how great of "leaders" they are, worshipping their money over a cup of coffee and a quarterly report."

That's as realistic view of business and public sector management as "egg heads with no understanding of the real world in ivory towers dreaming up unworkable theories".

I'm sure you can find examples of both but neither reflect reality, and it's lazy.

However, I'm entirely qualified to say that the problems I was working on in fusion are fairly academic.

Taking a step back they weren't on the critical path to making the devices work industrially, nor were the devices, should they work industrially, actually addressing any real challenge, and the most optimistic assessment of them even operating at industrial scale (let alone commercially viably) was so long as to render any personal contribution very minor.

I took a step back and thought: what do I want to say I've done when I die? Made some indistinguishable contribution to fusion power? I've basically done that already. What else can I do that tickles my dopamine centres, leverages my skills and abilities, and earns better money than this, and doesn't involve managing articles through tedious peer review process.


I'm very happy with my choice. Much better than becoming an FS quant.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 07:11:41
Also, I should say, there is substantially less bureaucracy in every place I've worked than I experienced in universities and research institutions. Like an order of magnitude less.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 19 08:01:20
Seb
What you wrote could be one implication of what I am saying, but it isn't what *I* am implying. I am sure it played a role, not sure by how much, but consider how close the election was, how much do you need? It could be that this dynamic, i.e the culture war, felt more impactful if you followed it on social media, unlike the vast majority of people who go an vote, absent the "battlereports" of the culture war from twitter. Austerity could account for that. Ultimately I think Brexit is more complex than a middle finger to wokeness.

It was just an observation, I promise. The current economic paradigm is rightwing, the social and cultural one is leftwing. Both sides are motivated by their victory and convinced that their ideological platform transfers to other domains.
jergul
large member
Tue Jan 19 09:33:41
Nimi
Left wing cultural and social victory? What does that even mean? There has been nothing but rollback from the highwatermark of say the time of Roe vrs Wade.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 09:36:05
Nim:

If you look at the trackers of what people thought were important issues, and what drove their vote, broad culture war issues were not on the chart.

Essentially, Bexit "created" the culture war in the UK by forcing a realignment on both the left and right around values. The UK govt is furiously trying to sustain this.

Prior to that economic and social class were the primary axis.

Ashcroft and others did a lot of research on this etc.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 19 10:17:19
Jergul
Since the 60’s (since ever really) not a single significant social achievment has emerged from the right. The US as an example. Civil rights movement, Roe vs wade, affirmative action, gay marriage, legalization of weed, title ix, these are just off the top of my head.

On top of that, there is an almost total domination of the cultural sphere and virtually all of academia that deals with social and cultural issues.

Seb
If I didn’t know better I would say, you are trying to drag me into a discussion holding a position I clearly stated I don’t have :)

I think there is enough nuance on the matter, in a election decided by the hair, where you should see how the toxic culture war aspect, may have played a role in the outcome. With that said I could make the case within the scope I mention, I can post articles and studies (they go both ways), it won’t change your mind. It won’t change the fact, that I also believe austerity is the bulk of the votes for leave. But austerity itself, I don’t think by itself a reason to leave, unless that austerity is percieved as being made worse by remaining. Post the study, I have questions that I need to find answers to :)
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 19 10:28:32
"The pay is shit and the level of impact too indirect"

Sounds like you werent very good, and had to take a second rate position at a public university.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 19 10:30:07
”Sebsession, the fragrance of desperation”
-Pour le petite homme-
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jan 19 10:49:38
In the heat of the argument, I have said seb wasn’t a great scientist and that is why he left. Fact is, there are a thousand ways to scare otherwise competent people out of academia just like in politics. There are way too many things you need to care about and learn and engage in behavior patterns that have very little or nothing at all to do with science. It’s just bullshit.

Sam
Did you stop day trading because you sucked at it? We know you failed with the military because you sucked at that. What you are doing, is as if we brought those thing up, constantly. Which, to be honest with you, I did, back when it was relevant and I was barely no longer a teenagers. Objectively I tyi k failing to get into the military is a worse embarassment, than getting a PhD, working in academia and one day decide, I am tired of all this bullshit for slave wages!
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 10:57:29
Nim:

I'm not trying to drag you into a discussion, so much as simply starting that it's really not that nuanced, there's a ton of data and analysis to look at - and I did. The reason why "woke" didn't play a role is because "woke" didn't exist as a salient issue in British politics, period.

You can look at semi-quantifiable data to see that "woke" as collection of values didn't coalesce into a political identity/issue in the UK until last year.

Even then, it's far from the coalesced political identity. UK Feminists are far more likely to be Rad Fems and reject self defined gender in favour of sex when it comes to rights issues.

Just asserting it must be so because the vote was narrow and thus it's common sense is a bit narrow minded really. People have looked into this, a lot.

Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 19 11:20:58
"back when it was relevant"

Sebs inability to do basic research makes it quite relevent when the topic involves research, does it not?
Habebe
Member
Tue Jan 19 11:47:49
I remember when I was just a lad, they stripped me naked and shaved testicles, then I was shoved burlap sack and beaten unmercifulessly.

before that I remember a time I tied an onion to toy belt, which was the sryle at the time, because I had to take the train into town. It cost me two nickels, which had pictures of bumblebees on them, 5 news for a quarter you'd say.Anyway, I had an onion tied to my belt. Which was the style at the time.

Yadda, Yadda, Yadda I came home from Nam , I didn't want know trouble, but it sure found me in the ways of a local a sherriff, I took out nearly an entire police force till my Seargant came, they thought he came to protect me, he came to protect them from me.....that cop drew First Blood.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 12:44:13
Sam:

Public university Vs private is only a meaningful distinction in the US.

For the record I went to Imperial College for both MSci and PhD. You can check the rankings yourself.

We hosted foreign students from the US in plasma research group, from the DoE, to teach them certain things about - let's say - high power inertial confinement fusion. Yes you have lovely facility at NIF but the IC/Harwell group had the expertise in theory and simulation and DoE want their guys learning from the best.



Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 12:44:57
Sam:

It's not a thread about research, though, is it.

Fail again.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 19 13:59:31
Seb, in this thread, yesterday:

"There is a huge amount of research done"

Ooops.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 15:37:05
The thread topic is about the outcome of Bexit.

The research referred to is political research and sweet fuck all relevant to my career in physics research.

This failure to follow detail and maintain focus is why you have ended up where you have.
Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 19 15:49:59
"I brought up the topic of research yesterday and wonder why research might be a discussion point today"

-seb

Your memory isnt any good either
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 16:09:39
Sam thinks nuclear fusion and psephology are the same thing. This is why he never became a proper scientist.
Seb
Member
Tue Jan 19 16:59:44
NIM:

"Scared" out? No.

I was doing fine as a scientist. It just wasn't making me happy - I did not enjoy doing the things that you need to do to be a successful scientist and in the end it didn't seem meaningful.

If I could go back in time, I would tell 16 year old Seb to focus on Biology and Chemistry, not Physics. Physics was the thing I found I had the more innate ability in and spoke to my inner reductionist, and much easier (all those organic pathways and reaction types you basically have to rote learn at A-Level, yuck - it's like learning a language). But Biochem is the science for the 21st century, and excessive reductionism is the false hope of classical rationalism - cousin to Emmerson's hobgoblin

But I still reckon looking at the broad career paths I'd have ended up looking for something more like what I do now.

I like getting shit done and landed, and it's hard in this day and age for scientists to take something from pure research to a definitive change in society. Too many specialists along the way.

I think we will see in the west that we've fucked up science as a career path in many ways and we will lose our edge.



Sam Adams
Member
Tue Jan 19 19:53:19
Nice response seb. Off topic, nonsensical, and completely wrong.

A broken processor and faulty memory. If seb is a robot, its one running on a 486.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jan 20 03:19:00
Well seb, what you described as ”didn’t make you happy” and forced you to do a bunch if things to be successful, the ”bullshit”, I call that ”scaring” people away. Because I don’t think that bullshit is necessary. Every job has it to varying degree, but some jobs are worse. It is reflective on the work imo, not the people chased away.

”Physics was the thing I found I had the more innate ability in and spoke to my inner reductionist, and much easier”

Hmm, sound like something unflattering I may have lobbed your way about reducing people to atoms ;) though to be frank, I have that tendency, It is a common trait found in people interested in things, do to varying degrees. I meet a lot of people who agree ”I chose to work with things over people, because the things are easier, not so messy”.

I chose biotech for an equally ”simple” reasons. I just didn’t enjoy math very much, but I was always fascinated by biology and this was the ”techiest” form of ”biology”. And I guess, it was the last attempt by my brains left hemisphere to revolt, my fathers artistic heritage. The result became too broad and superficial, something that for years bothered me, I hadn’t really learned anything at any depth, I wasn’t really ”great” at anything. I spent 5 years doing 2 BSc and preparing for a masters, but by that time I was really tired of the academic environment and being a ”poor” student. I have slowly come to terms with the reality that, I am not a specialist and I was nevered destined to become one. There are too many interesting things going on to focus on one forever. There is some ADD going on there, I am sure.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 20 07:57:16
Nim:

Publication is necessary I think, though we probably over emphasise it.

Main issue was lack of tangible impact and pay.
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 20 08:00:47
Like, even if magically I didn't need to write papers; I would still have gone and done something else.

Even the most optimistic answer to the question "so what?" wasn't really working for me. "I've discovered X,y,z" "So what", "So this data can feed into a complicated optimisation for diverter design in 20 years time on the next gen spherical tokamak and in a few decades someone will build one that will remove the need for fossil power"
Seb
Member
Wed Jan 20 09:19:11
Nim:

"mm, sound like something unflattering I may have lobbed your way about reducing people to atoms"

Yeah, not people - but mechanics. Natural phenomena being easily explained by a simple set of rules is one thing, but I've never thought that works for people. Godel etc.


Seb
Member
Wed Jan 20 09:25:18
I mean, high school physics is easy if you understand a few key relationships and can memorise a few equations.

High school chemistry is a fucking nightmare: this element burns blue because a wizard did it. The various chromate ions have these colors... remember them, because a wizard did it. This chemical reaction goes by Nucleophilic substitution 1 because a wizard did it. Except under these conditions. Learn it.

Later, you learn how it relates to QM - but 9in the UK at least) they don't like getting that far into QM at high school chemistry (i.e. beyond explaining some relatively simple stuff like bond shapes and orbitals) because you might not be taking the corresponding level of physics.

That, for me, made chemistry a sort of living hell: stuff happens that ought to be mechanistic but nobody is really explaining how to work it out from first principles - so you have to rote learn a fuck ton of stuff (which I hate doing), rather than remembering some high level principles and being able to apply them.

I have a pretty good memory for somethings, but organic chemical reactions.. nope.

And organic chem was like 45% of the syllabus at A-Level.
show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message:
Bookmark and Share