Utopia Talk / Politics / The age of mass censorship is here

Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 06:09:30 Donald Trump suspended from Twitter, banned from Facebook and Instagram 'indefinitely' ---- Shopify Closes Trump Stores On Its Platform ---- Twitch bans Trump ---- Trump suspended indefinitely from Snapchat ---- Reddit’s largest remaining Trump community banned ---- Discord bans pro-Trump server ‘The Donald’ ---- YouTube says it will move more quickly to suspend channels posting videos claiming widespread voter fraud ---- Steve Bannon’s podcast removed from YouTube hours after Giuliani interview ---- Twitter permanently suspends Flynn, Sidney Powell ---- Brandon Straka, 500K-strong 'Walk Away' page banned by Facebook ---- Lin Wood banned from Twitter ---- Twitter suspends Trump's campaign account @TeamTrump for violating its rules ---- Google Suspends Parler From Google Play ---- Apple says it will kick Parler off the App Store in 24 hours unless content is moderated ---- CNN's Oliver Darcy pressures TV carriers to drop Fox, Newsmax, OAN ---- First they came for Alex Jones, and I said nothing... This is the real "coup" taking place: the wholesale censorship of the political opposition. And it's only the beginning; the Democrats are now calling for laws to crack down on domestic "terrorists," aka opponents. These will inevitably be used to further quell dissident speech, with government and media oligarchs working hand in hand to destroy freedom of speech as we know it. What a disaster.
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 06:29:45 Fine that Trump is obese, but calling him a mass just comes across as mean.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 06:38:57 Cute joke, but the humor is somewhat muted by the fact that it's coming from someone who thinks that 74 million people should be subjected to a truth and reconciliation board for having engaged in wrongthink.
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 06:45:23 Ruggy Truth and reconciliation is a route to amnesty, so ultimately only applies to people in legal jepardy. Its an extremely mild version of deradicalization that gained reknown in post wwii nazi germany. Not a way to collectively punish people guilty only of guilibility and association.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 07:39:19 Jergul It's abundantly clear from your post history that you think all Trump supporters are culpable. Collective responsibility and all that. I mean, let's just look at your first post right here. In response to multiple news stories such as Parler being deplatformed by Google and Apple, Walk Away getting banned from Facebook, and CNN calling for Fox News to be pulled from the airwaves...you implied that all such activity was nothing more than a ban against Donald Trump. That showed your ignorance at work. Your mind is incapable of processing the idea that American conservatism is anything other than a subsidiary of Trump. Even when it's manifestly not.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 07:45:01 Moving on...all this shows just how disingenuous leftists really are. Leftists: "Twitter is a private company, they don't have to allow your speech! If you want to spout your conservative views, go start your own site." Conservatives: "Fine, we'll go to Parler then." *Parler gets banned* Democrats are the anti-free speech party.
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 09 07:52:49 If they weren’t so anti-American they would still be able to use American big-tech. Also remember that Trump and his network declared war on big-tech, so why would let his people use their services.
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 08:01:09 Ruggy Wow. Anyway, Huawei has a fine app store. Try there.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 08:03:10 Jergul I know, right? Your retardedness is astonishing.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 08:04:09 Para Democrats want to weaken Section 230 as well.
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 08:09:42 Ruggy Nah, I am the voice of reason. You are raging. Sad to watch really.
Daemon Member	Sat Jan 09 08:10:14 "the wholesale censorship of the political opposition." But he is the President.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 08:14:37 Jergul I see you dont like being called out on your warped worldview. *shrug* Daemon - Yes. And he is in the opposition to the power structure that rules America.
Daemon Member	Sat Jan 09 08:17:47 "And he is in the opposition to the power structure that rules America" The military-industrial complex? But he was giving more money to it.
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 08:24:55 Ruggy You are not raging? You willing to go on the record stating you think you are being completely rational and reasonable? Fact of the matter is that my views rest squarly within the folds of democracy. Your views may not. You would need to expound more on what you think should have happened on the 6th.
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 09 08:31:51 Let us also remember why Trump and his people are being banned. It is because they are inciting violence, among other things. They would still be able to use social media services if they followed the rules. But they chose not to. http://blo...s/company/2020/suspension.html
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 09 08:42:01 ” Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021” Well, if they are going to try it again I think they need to arm themselves. Because we saw what happened when you storm the Capitol with no guns. Even the Brits were smart enough to carry guns when they stormed it in 1814.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 08:46:55 Jergul Your views are fundamentally undemocratic. I may have had more sympathy for your opinion if you had generally argued that people who stoop to rioting in the name of a political cause are in need of re-integration into mainstream discourse, and that the people who incite such riots should be punished. But you have never, ever, called for truth and reconciliation boards for BLM or antifa rioters, nor have you called for the likes of Harris or Pelosi to be jailed. Its only Trump supporters who need to atone and be re-educated. Its only Trump and his ilk who should face prison time. The logical conclusion isn't difficult to grasp. Only conservatives are guilty of wrongthink. The sad part is that you're not even aware of your biases. You think that you're expressing a neutral and objective view. Too bad.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sat Jan 09 08:51:39 Rugian, the delusional Trump fluffer traitor, is berating someone for a perceived lack of objectivity? Now that's fucking hilarious.
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 08:58:33 Ruggy I think that people in legal jepardy should have the option of coming clean, telling the truth, and gaining an amnesty. Your apples and oranges angle is irrelevant. We are barely even in the stage of indictions. It comes first.
Rugian Member	Sat Jan 09 09:17:08 Paramount How many BLM accounts have been banned from Twitter? If you'll remember, that movement caused months of violence and anarchy. Jergul Riots are riots. Equally, riots to effect political change are riots to effect political change. I think the DC riot that trashed the Capitol was fucked up. I also think the multitude of riots that trashed multiple American cities were fucked up. Can you say the same thing?
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 09 09:20:53 ” How many BLM accounts have been banned from Twitter? If you'll remember, that movement caused months of violence and anarchy.” I don’t know. But maybe there were very few who actually incited violence and armed insurrection. Maybe someone did but then maybe Twitter give them like three chances before they ban them. Like with Trump and some others, they have been like this for a couple of years, and Twitter finally had enough after the Capitol was stormed.
The Children Member	Sat Jan 09 09:33:37 aye aye aye, is rugiun and habebe and kargen gonna cry now. salty tears of sorrow? some massive karma has been returned. We come full circle ladies and gentlemen. this is how it started. trump TikTok Huawei this is how it ended Twitter, reddit, facebook, apple, and many many more bans trump and others. This is how it started bannon: CHAYNAAA!!! This is how it ended postal service arrest bannons on a boat from a chinese dissent this is how it started hongkong nazis break into legco this is how it ended capitol building stormed this is how it started foreign flags in hk riots waved this is how it ended during capitol protest, crazy flags were seen being waved by the crazies. we saw falungunnnutjobs, well see 4 urselves. http://www...ckens_have_come_home_to_roost/ even a dude wavin the imperial japanese flag. how crazy can it get? it has come full circle.
The Children Member	Sat Jan 09 09:47:35 look at these nutjob losers http://www...kind_of_people_trump_attracts/ rofl imperial japanese flag?
jergul large member	Sat Jan 09 11:01:29 Ruggy Your whataboutism is a bit fucked up frankly.
hood Member	Sat Jan 09 11:02:14 If I walk up to someone and menacingly tell them I'm coming for them, I've committed a crime. If I do it over twitter it's suddenly free speech? Someone is delusional.
obaminated Member	Sat Jan 09 11:10:07 I didnt bother to read the posts. I assume leftists have a general response about how this isnt a big deal.
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 09 11:17:06 It’s not a big deal. Even if they are banned from Twitter they still have free speech. Trump for an example could hold a press conference and speak. He could collect his 40 tweets/day and read them aloud to the people. Same with everyone else. They can speak to people in a park. And they can host their own blog and write their opinions there.
Dakyron Member	Sat Jan 09 12:08:38 Paramount is correct. Right to free speech doesn't mean you have to be able to use Twitter. Rugian has fallen into the deep end, even when not obviously trolling.
Average Ameriacn Member	Sat Jan 09 12:20:27 "I didnt bother to read the posts" I have BLOCKED most liberals in this forum. Haven't seen a posting from Pelosi, Clinton or AOC in years^^
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 12:47:59 Well, First e can hope Trump starts a media platform(s) Also, take what we can to the courts. If that doesn't work and the liberal media/end continue to end run the constitution through government backed monopolies and the similar. There is always the reset button( the 2nd amendment), violence sometimes IS the answer but only one of absolute last resort. That said it is in our history to fight tyranny. I dont think the election had mass fraud, but to effectivley ban Open and free discussion of ideas makes you question what they are hiding. This is seriously some.china level shit. Remember this is COMPLETELY political, aa Twitter fully allows the Ayatollah to spout far worse, but its a radical left platform that supports Iran and not Trump.
Y2A Member	Sat Jan 09 12:50:09 go on parler and leave the normal population alone.
hood Member	Sat Jan 09 12:51:28 "government backed monopolies" There's nothing government backed about twitter or facebook.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 12:51:58 "Paramount is correct. Right to free speech doesn't mean you have to be able to use Twitter." This is true. But Twitter and big tech effectivley control mass media platforms. If one company lets say Toll brothers controlled 60% of rental houses but inly let you live there if you permitted cops to randomly search your house and persons whenever they want and you were forbidden to own guns, that would be a problem. A small hand full of companies has the power to control who gets to say what in political speech.THAT is the problem.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 12:52:32 y2a, Google blocled parler. Monopolistic behaviour.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 12:52:46 apple is to follow suit.
Y2A Member	Sat Jan 09 12:53:00 isis doesn't deserve a voice on social media, neither do white supremacist terrorists. good to see something is finally being done.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 12:55:13 Hood, Absolutely it is. Finally it recent months many politicians have finally started to push anti trust issues from both parties.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 12:56:33 y2a, So you do not support open discussion of ideas?
Paramount Member	Sat Jan 09 13:11:55 Ideas such as inciting the storming of Capitol Hill and force Mike Pence to overturn the election result?
Y2A Member	Sat Jan 09 13:50:22 Habebe: Spaces dedicated to denigrating other races always lead to ethnic violence or genocide. The greatest generation recognized this, that is why Julius Streicher the publisher of Der Sturmer was hanged at Nuremburg despite not having actively participated in the camps. In more recent times, Radio Mille Collines had a core role in inciting people to commit genocide in Rwanda.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 13:53:23 y2a, Did Trump call for mass murder? BLM has caused more.damage than all Trump protests/rallies combined.
TJ Member	Sat Jan 09 14:08:54 Seems like the perfect thread for this clip. Make of it as you wish. I've never had any doubt that any of you reading would do otherwise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyuNQbmuXk
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 09 14:11:01 "and force Mike Pence to overturn the election result" ...and to execute Mike Pence when he didn't the cultists aren't done... Trump kept acting like he could still win up til Jan 6th... now the last piece of the process over, entirely up to the cultists & their 1776 revolution now to save him hopefully enthusiasm took a dagger now that Trump turned on them
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sat Jan 09 15:04:12 http://apnews.com/article/904a9a6a1bcd46cebfc14bea2ee30fdf US secretly built ‘Cuban Twitter’ to stir unrest
hood Member	Sat Jan 09 15:37:21 "Hood, Absolutely it is. Finally it recent months many politicians have finally started to push anti trust issues from both parties." You fucking tardnugget. Being a monopoly doesn't mean Twitter or Facebook are government backed. The gov just hasn't done anything to stop them; they both achieved their position without interference, through gaining market share on the open, free market. It's telling that you want a government solution when the free market rejects your bullshit.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 15:49:07 Tw, From purely my localized anecdotal evidence* Support for Trump amongst his supporters is greater than ever with even more fervor. I've saidnit before, he is the political Obi Wan, if the evil empire were to strike him down, he will become more powerful than they could ever imagine. Just fathom the possibility at least of a Trump channel. He would definitley take out Fox news, giving him an unlimited platform to be a king maker so to speak, having much more sway than he does now. Follow that with him pushing for his chosen big tech media platforms.Especially nownthat we still have a SC that will likley choose freedom of speech over censored " safe ideas/speech" Im not saying it will happen, but it could. Kushner has been in talks in the past to buy the weathet channel for example. Trump is liked so much by his supporters partly because he speaks for those who are disenfranchised and lack the power to fight back against wealthy elites. His base of 75 million supporters is largely lower income people.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 15:50:40 hoof, "The gov just hasn't done anything to stop them" So they been lax on their job to regulate a monopoly or monopolistic behavior.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 15:51:12 Like Standard oil in the day.
patom Member	Sat Jan 09 16:39:34 Trump Channel? First of all you need advertising to run any channel. Do you honestly think the people with deep enough pockets to counter the liable suits that will flow to Trump would fork out good money to support this wingnut? Nobody in the auto industry is a big fan of Trump. I would also think he would need licensing from the FCC in order to have his own channel. Can you think of any companies that regularly use TV as a place to advertise their products paying for ads on 'Trump TV'?
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 16:42:07 Tom, Its a big market place. Trump has around 75 million supporters in this country alone, I'm sure they could find funding.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 09 16:55:45 they have to put on material obviously there will be no interest in facts... but how long can you sustain that? Newsmax seemed more preferable to the cultists than OAN as they aren't just total bullshit, just lean more Trump than Fox Trump would be an OAN
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 16:58:51 As for Big techs monopoly powers, this isnt just some minor issue supported by fringe actors. Republivans and democrats alike have come together to look into it. Many house members and probably some Senators want something done. What exactly is done is another can of worms. Both sides want to scrap section 230 which gives big tech protections that most media do not have. However the left wants more censorship and the right wants less over section 230. http://www...ch-antitrust-report/index.html
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 17:00:08 tw, Trump as a ratings getter has always done well. Even if he wasn't number one he has aleayd drawn an audience.
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 17:09:52 That said, I also worry about SpaceX becoming too powerful. Its not there yet, but I have a healthy fear of power accumulation and blue origin doesnt seem to be putting up a good fight.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sat Jan 09 18:03:45 Retard Rod 2.0 just keeps dreaming his delusions and ignoring reality.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Jan 09 22:43:03 CEO of Parler tells Mediaite it took down a post from attorney Lin Wood calling for Vice President Mike Pence's execution the deep state got to Parler!!!!!! 'conservative voices' want to execute Pence, where will they go to plot his death now?!?
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 23:22:15 tw, You can understand the difference between a rallying speech at a protest compared calling to execute someone, can't you?
habebe Member	Sat Jan 09 23:23:50 Trump never said to break the windows, steal items or to tresspass inside. Never did he say anything to that effect.
smart dude Member	Sat Jan 09 23:41:17 No he was just recommending it as...a cool tourist destination?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 10 02:42:20 Trump whipped up hatred for months... 'stop the steal' was the slogan... telling people the election being stolen from them, and the evil people bringing socialism & taking away guns & religion were seizing power... he invites them to DC on that day & tweeting that all lawmakers should take notice that the people won't stand for what they're doing... and saying Pence could stop the vote then noting he didn't do it... & directs them to the Capitol saying he's joining them... so he had no idea they wouldn't be happy just chanting outside having no effect? do you doubt he was excited seeing them storm the place? also... just step back & think... do you really believe if Trump had never said a word those people would've done it? if he merely had made good-faith lawsuits & accepted results (like EVERY other semi-responsible person would do) ----- anyway, another conservative voice on Parler: " Remember ALL Journalists are soft targets, and are fair game in the coming revolution! Don't be afraid to take rerporters down by any means necessary! " tagged with "#PenceTraitor" amongst other tags someone should make a social media platform that advertises "you can plot Pence's death here!"
habebe Member	Sun Jan 10 02:50:30 "stop the steal" is not inciting violence. If Trump had never said anything and accepted tge results as legit they likley wouldnt have done that. However using such logic if BLM never had a protest all of the negative fall out wouldnt have happened either, Americans have the right to express their opinions and protest. Trump never called for violence and breaking the law. He has condemned these acts.
habebe Member	Sun Jan 10 02:53:25 I think the fear may be* that hypothetically IF Trump called his supporters to arms, many would. I dont see that as a rational fear though.
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 03:12:34 He doesn’t need to say ”take to arms” or ”break the law” or ”kill mike pence”. He just need to get them angry, incite the mob, and then they will do the rest.
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 03:27:49 Parler may go offline after Amazon, Apple and Google reject social network Parler could go down from Sunday night after Amazon reportedly said it would stop hosting the network in the wake of the US Capitol attack Parler faces an uncertain future after Amazon reportedly said it would no long host the social network, and Apple suspended it from its App Store over its role in last week’s attack on the US Capitol by a pro-Trump mob. The social network increasingly favoured by conservatives and extremists had violated its terms of service and would no longer be hosted from midnight Sunday, reported Buzzfeed, citing a letter sent by Amazon Web Services (AWS). “Recently, we’ve seen a steady increase in this violent content on your website, all of which violates our terms. It’s clear that Parler does not have an effective process to comply with the AWS terms of service,” it quoted the emailed letter as saying. Parler’s chief executive, John Matze, said in a post on the site that Parler could be “unavailable” for up to a week in order to “rebuild from scratch”, the Washington Post reported. As the new emerged, Donald Trump Jr urged his followers to send him their contact details assuming “the purge of conservative ideas and thought leaders continues”. http://www...suspends-parler-from-app-store Rugian and Habebe, you will need to mail your contact information to Trump so that he can keep in touch with you.
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 03:41:36 ” Matze said of Apple: “Apparently they believe Parler is responsible for ALL user generated content on Parler. By the same logic, Apple must be responsible for ALL actions taken by their phones. Every car bomb, every illegal cell phone conversation, every illegal crime committed on an iPhone, Apple must also be responsible for.” Matze has a point. I think America will have to ban all ways of communication. It is clear that you can not handle this freedom, it is too much for you. But then, Amazon and Apple are all private companies, and no one should be able to force them to host something that they think is harmful to people and to America. If Amazon *must* host Parler then by the same logic Parler must host Antifa.
habebe Member	Sun Jan 10 03:43:08 " He just need to get them angry, incite the mob, and then they will do the rest." If getting people angry through speech is a crime, than all of our politicians are criminals. I'm not sure why someone would be so happy at censorship, however co sidering your fondness for the CCP it makes sense.
habebe Member	Sun Jan 10 03:44:41 Paramount, Parler would openly hosts antifa members.
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 03:58:09 ” If getting people angry through speech is a crime, than all of our politicians are criminals. ” It depends on your words and wordings. The content of your speech.
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 06:03:07 (CNN)The CEO of Parler, a social media platform popular among conservatives, told Mediaite that it removed a post from attorney Lin Wood calling for Vice President Mike Pence to be executed by "firing squads." "Yes, some of his parleys that violated our rules were taken down," John Matze told Mediaite, specifying that the post, or parley, about the "firing squads" was among those removed. - - So Lin Wood was openly calling for the execution of the Vice President, and Parler deletes the evidence. Isn’t destroying evidence a crime?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 10 07:42:28 "Lin Wood calling for Vice President Mike Pence to be executed by "firing squads." I don't understand the problem, to be executed insinuates a legal process where someone is found guilty and given capital punishment. This is how US legal system works. He didn't say MURDER Pence, that would be an illegal threat of violence.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 08:34:13 Nimi Dog whistle is the problem. The literal analogy works well. Say someone has attack dogs and uses a whistle to sick them on someone and kill them. A defense that does not work is claiming that objective humans cannot hear the sound.
Renzo Marquez Member	Sun Jan 10 08:56:35 Lulz. http://twitter.com/jack/status/1348139031599595522
Nekran Member	Sun Jan 10 09:48:24 The recent rise of Signal has more to do with WhatsApp changing their policy. It's not an alternative for Twitter.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 10:38:39 ^ Jack celebrating that Parler was kicked off he #1 spot by the Big Tech oligarchy. What a complete piece of shit.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 10:44:38 "Anonymous #FreeKirtaner @RealOGAnonymous It is worth noting that without a major cloud infrastructure like AWS or Azure, Parler will be a sitting duck at the scale required for a large social network. They don't have feasible options, and absolutely none possible in a single day. John Matze is freaking out privately. PoliMath @politicalmath This is fucking insane and anyone who does not freak out about this is, quite frankly, a shitty partisan hack You cannot retreat to "don't like twitter, build you own app" if you're ok with stripping the entire internet ecosystem away from people you don't like" http://mob...ous/status/1348102912208199681 ^exactly this. Everyone in this thread who has disagreed with this assessment is nothing more than a shitty partisan hack.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Jan 10 10:54:49 That coming from about the worst shitty partisan hack on the board...
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 11:12:32 They could still be up and running if only they stopped breaking the rules and if users stopped inciting hate and insurrection. Everyone else is following these rules and does not break any law. Why can’t the conservatives do it also?
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 11:15:21 It is like THEY WANT a civil war, they want to kill members of congress including republican Pence and they want to abolish democracy in America.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 11:17:56 Third party sanction is a bitch, aint it?
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 11:23:08 Para I could literally link a dozen active antifa accounts on Twitter right now. This isn't about punishing lawbreakers. This a reactionary push to selectively silence conservative voices en masse.
Paramount Member	Sun Jan 10 11:31:29 ” Third party sanction is a bitch, aint it?” Lol. It looks like it.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 11:34:51 Ruggy You are still in the midst of an insurrection. Expect patriotic companies to protect the transition of government. Things will likely ease up after the 20th.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 11:39:37 "You are still in the midst of an insurrection." The only ongoing "insureection" is the BLM/antifa riots that have been taking place on and off since May. The January 6 riot in DC ended on January 6. As the name implies. It was not an insurrection and I'll ignore further mentions of it as one. But you're such a hack that you refused to even acknowledge the serious nature of the BLM/antifa riots. Apparently in your mind, a speaker's lectern being carried off by a protestor is more serious than multiple American cities being sacked by far-left extremists. Its downright delusional.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 11:48:07 Ruggy You do recognize Congress and a constitunal branch of government with a constitutional role to play on the 6th, right? You do recognize that the attack could have stopped Congress from forfilling its constitutional obligations and that this was a goal of the insurectionists, right?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 10 11:52:12 This is great, ban Trump but allow dozen of far worse actual dictators to keep spreading their propaganda and lies, while at the same time keeping their own people from using social media.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 11:54:54 "You do recognize that the attack could have stopped Congress from forfilling its constitutional obligations and that this was a goal of the insurectionists, right?" Short of actually kidnapping or murdering the entirety of Congress, no the rioters could not have done this.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 10 12:04:39 Those picture of the guy with zipties suggests that was exactly going to happened, provided opportunity. Luckily the rebels were inept.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 12:05:57 Oh one guy had zipties. I guess that justifies a mass purge of the internet then.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 12:10:17 Ruggy They thought they could, and in fact they could have. Could the readings have proceeded without Pence? Could the readings have proceeded without the physical electoral votes? Was Congress supposed to reassemble elsewhere as a hostage situation played out with whatever number of lawmakers were held by the plastic handcuffs the insurectionists flourished in the halls of congress? Nimi Give twitter a bit of time. The ban on Trump is in response to an ongoing threat the American democracy. Its obvious that the impunity awarded state leaders is no longer valid.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 12:14:11 Its pretty obvious that the whole game plan was to fuck up the constitutional process to a point where house groups (one per state) decided the outcome. The republicans contol enough groups to reelect Trump. The insurection had a shot at subverting democracy.
Wrath of Orion Member	Sun Jan 10 12:15:57 And Rugian continues his downward spiral into delusional madness. At what point do we start to think he actually becomes a danger?
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Jan 10 12:18:22 Jergul I scanned Khamenies twitter and yes, a tweet of his had been deleted. I will chalk this up to, gee golly it (censoring authoritarians) didn’t seem that important before it happened to us (the board of twitter) personally. Though, with that said, none of this resonates with my views on free speech. More importantly, I don’t think any of this will help us navigate out of the shitstorm.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 12:29:00 "You do recognize that the attack could have stopped Congress from forfilling its constitutional obligations and that this was a goal of the insurectionists, right?" Nim - Don't you know? Censoring speech makes it go away. Although I do suppose that actually is true provided you go extreme enough with the censorship. China for example has no organized opposition to speak of. One only need look at how much establishment figures look up to the CCP as an ideal model of governance to see where Western Civilization may potentially be heading. The future is not bright.
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 12:36:23 Jergul In the extremely, extemely unlikely event that Pence had been killed, the Senate president pro tempore would have presided over the EC vote tabulation. This is not a speculative answer either. In the 19th century there were several periods where the office of vice presidency was vacant. And yet we were still able to conduct our elections without one. But all this ascribes a level of forethought that was not present with the majority of the rioters. Most people were there to attend the Trump rally and got caught up in the zeal of the moment. That's how riots generally work. There was no organized attempt to take out the legislative branch, as the inaccurate term "insurrection" would imply.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 12:37:47 Nimi One way out of the shit storm is a senate conviction. It clears the way for a Pence presidency in 4 years. Otherwise, the pandemic has to end. The devil loves idle hands. People had enough involuntary time off work to go to the rally and storm the capitol.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 12:42:29 Ruggy Ty for explaining why the Senate majority leader was also a insurectionist target. There were scores of organized militia groups taking part. There were certainly many plans concocted by their armchair generals.
jergul large member	Sun Jan 10 12:44:20 Ruggy Incidentally, would you have been in favour of the election eventually being resolved by house state groups voting to give Trump a 2nd term?
Rugian Member	Sun Jan 10 12:48:42 (The Senate Majority Leader is not the President Pro Tempore)
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sun Jan 10 12:50:30 Q
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