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Utopia Talk / Politics / Covid-24
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 08 10:09:54
A Texas man, Adam Stadler, said his second bout of coronavirus was “a hundred times worse than the first time.”

Stadler experienced muscles aches, fatigue, joint pains, shortness of breath and loss of sense and smell.
"“It just flat kicked my butt … It was like in my back so bad that I would cry,” he said. "

Stadler says he first got sick with coronavirus back on March 29. A month later, he got so sick that he was hospitalized for 10 days and developed a pulmonary embolism. He then tested negative twice, developed shingles, and tested positive for coronavirus again on June 21.

Dr. Joseph Varon on CNN's "New Day" on July 8.
Dr. Joseph Varon on CNN's "New Day" on July 8. CNN

His physician Dr. Joseph Varon, chief of staff at Union Memorial Medical Center in Houston, said Stadler’s case shows that people still need to be vigilant.

“Thinking that you're going to be invincible because you already have had corona once by no means is protective. People need to keep on being equally respectful of this illness. They need to keep their social distance, they need to keep their masks … even if they had the illness already,” Varon said.

“I do have a couple of patients that have consistently tested positive for up to six weeks. So I guess there's a very slight possibility that that would be the case. …More likely than not, this was a second infection he had,” Varon explained.

Asked if Stadler's two negative Covid-19 tests could have been false negatives and that he did not catch the virus again, Varon said it was a possibility, but would be "very unusual" because the patient was tested twice and both came negative.

Stadler's wife also developed symptoms, and she was diagnosed with double pneumonia. Stadler said his son still considers coronavirus a “hoax,” and he wishes his son would wear a mask and socially distance.

“This has been the worst three or four months that I have ever experienced in my life,” Stadler said.

He’s on short-term disability with his job, and he’s thankful he and his wife had a bit of money saved up to tide them over. Stadler said he is still feeling the cognitive effects of the virus.

“I continue to have blurry vision. I have had cognitive issues. I have a hard time focusing since the first bout of it. When I went to the doctor here, my primary care doctor, they gave me a test. I scored a 14 on it, which says I have dementia,” Stadler said.
“It's messed up my brain,” he said.

CNN

Nice!

Take vitamin D, build up your v2 max and make sure you get that immune suppressant steroid if you take ill.

That goes for every time you take ill with covid-19.
Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 08 10:39:29
Corona now gives you shingles?

Lol

Jergul lives off sensationalist doomsday media
Dakyron
Member
Wed Jul 08 11:20:49
Sounds like an unhealthy, disease prone guy.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 08 13:02:59
Pillz
A fucked up immune system can give you all kinds of things. But I was thinking more of the dementia test score.

Though I get you don't care. How would getting more dementia like symptoms change anything for you at all?

Daky
My main point exactly. Don't be that unhealthy, disease prone guy.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jul 08 13:10:52
Here is something no one has ever said:

"My grand mother got dementia a few years ago, but now she is much better"
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 08 16:16:33
"Abstract

Preliminary clinical data indicate that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection is associated with neurological and neuropsychiatric illness. Responding to this, a weekly virtual coronavirus disease 19 (COVID-19) neurology multi-disciplinary meeting was established at the National Hospital, Queen Square, in early March 2020 in order to discuss and begin to understand neurological presentations in patients with suspected COVID-19-related neurological disorders.

Detailed clinical and paraclinical data were collected from cases where the diagnosis of COVID-19 was confirmed through RNA PCR, or where the diagnosis was probable/possible according to World Health Organization criteria.

Of 43 patients, 29 were SARS-CoV-2 PCR positive and definite, eight probable and six possible.

Five major categories emerged:

(i) encephalopathies (n = 10) with delirium/psychosis and no distinct MRI or CSF abnormalities, and with 9/10 making a full or partial recovery with supportive care only;

(ii) inflammatory CNS syndromes (n = 12) including encephalitis (n = 2, para- or post-infectious), acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (n = 9), with haemorrhage in five, necrosis in one, and myelitis in two, and isolated myelitis (n = 1). Of these, 10 were treated with corticosteroids, and three of these patients also received intravenous immunoglobulin; one made a full recovery, 10 of 12 made a partial recovery, and one patient died;

(iii) ischaemic strokes (n = 8) associated with a pro-thrombotic state (four with pulmonary thromboembolism), one of whom died;

(iv) peripheral neurological disorders (n = 8), seven with Guillain-Barré syndrome, one with brachial plexopathy, six of eight making a partial and ongoing recovery;

and (v) five patients with miscellaneous central disorders who did not fit these categories.

SARS-CoV-2 infection is associated with a wide spectrum of neurological syndromes affecting the whole neuraxis, including the cerebral vasculature and, in some cases, responding to immunotherapies. The high incidence of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, particularly with haemorrhagic change, is striking. This complication was not related to the severity of the respiratory COVID-19 disease.

Early recognition, investigation and management of COVID-19-related neurological disease is challenging. Further clinical, neuroradiological, biomarker and neuropathological studies are essential to determine the underlying pathobiological mechanisms, which will guide treatment. Longitudinal follow-up studies will be necessary to ascertain the long-term neurological and neuropsychological consequences of this pandemic."

http://aca...awaa240/5868408?searchresult=1
Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 08 17:00:14
43 out of a minimum estimate of 1.1 million infected.

Blow me pussy ass bitch
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 08 19:07:08
Pillz
Wow. That was sure stupid.

The study found some people with recent brain injuries. It tested them to see if they had covid-19. Some did. It then looked at what the fuck was wrong with them.

Turns out the virus can trigger a type of meningitis and can cause blood to clot where you really do not want it to.
Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 08 21:26:11
In so few people we may as well not count them at all.

Highly relevant for the medical community. Not at all relevant to the general public.
Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 08 21:27:47
Imagine that 3.6 million people in the UK have had corona.

What would that make the total # of brain damage related cases? Maybe a 100? 200?

And at what point do we realize this is due probably to poor medical practices in the first place?
jergul
large member
Thu Jul 09 01:11:52
Ths study makes no call on how many people suffer braindamage from covid-19. It simply estblishes that people do and it provides the pathology of what happens.

My ballpark guess is that 4-7 people for everyone dead will suffer from some form of long term dehabilitation that will often be a cofactor in premature death.
jergul
large member
Thu Jul 09 01:12:12
Every dead*
Seb
Member
Thu Jul 09 03:54:52
Wasn't there a story a while back on how they reckon it's really a blood disease not respritary: attacks the lining of capillaries, hence why clots, the weird symptoms in some children, pulmonary embolisms and the lung capillaries.
Pillz
Member
Thu Jul 09 08:38:09
You are beyond retarded jergul
Pillz
Member
Thu Jul 09 08:49:18
4-7 for every dead would be 2-3 million with severe disability.

Wed have noticed something beyond a very unhealthy Texas man and 43 cases of brain damage in the UK

Are you straight up chewing lead as a supplement?
hood
Member
Thu Jul 09 10:03:16
Apparently reading comprehension isn't required to stock grocery aisles.

Long term dehabilitation (debilitating?) != Severe disability, severely disabled grocery clerk.
Pillz
Member
Thu Jul 09 10:12:05
1/3 of confirmed corona cases do not require long term dehabilitation, which is usually a result of long term disability.

The exception being of course those already at the end of their lives.

Jergul and you are both retarded.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jul 09 10:26:56
The study is additional reasons to be cautious when we are dealing with a novel virus, i.e not be all "freeeduuumb!" and "only old people are dying". Despite the small sample size and as the authors write, biased towards severe cases. Those limitations makes it difficult to extrapolate beyond the cohort.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Thu Jul 09 10:51:15
At this point the data strongly suggests additional long term effects from a Sars-Cov-2 infection for some people. But there is currently no way to know if that is a very small percentage of people, a larger percentage within severe cases of COVID-19, some other possible combination, or if it is a virus that lingers in the system and can cause long term issues for some.

Although I rarely agree with anything "cuddle my rat dog" posts, he is correct here. There's plenty of evidence out there that additional effects in the body exist and it's reason to be cautious.

Not that most of the American retards on this board will pay attention.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jul 09 11:20:07
"Nimatzo is correct" is 3 words, not 3 paragraphs.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Thu Jul 09 19:10:44
You seem to be confused about the structuring of my post. I understand and will explain.

The first was really directed at what people like Pillz say. The second was agreeing with you and insulting you at the same time. The third is to point out that many Americans are retards and have pretty much made their own bed with this one (including many on this board).
Pillz
Member
Thu Jul 09 19:51:28
The only people who've made their bed are liberals and whatever portion of the population that has decided the sky is falling.

It's the liberals voting base that's going to be out of the most jobs when this is done.
Dukhat
Member
Thu Jul 09 20:40:37
DURRR LIBERALS DURRR HATE THEM DURR SO MUCH DURRRR!!!

-Pillz every post
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jul 09 20:46:54
WoO
Not nearly as confused as you were over a 6 paragraph post about political violence, I just would never take the time to explain why such a subject requires many paragraphs for you.

All the things you wrote were redundant though. I already explained the study in 1 paragraph (for pillz and the others) and we all know "some Americans are retarded" and insulting me and agreeing would take one sentence.

"I must reluctantly say, the rat dog lovers is correct."

I just thought this was important to point out, given how you made a point that when you express your thought on things and stuff, you are short and concise.

Remember what I told you? That talking at _any_ will reveal you are dumber than the UP average. Slipping up rather quickly my friend. tsk tsk tsk
Wrath of Orion
Member
Thu Jul 09 21:38:31
lmfao

Ok, that was actually funny.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jul 09 21:49:27
Thank you, but honestly you gave me a lot of material to work with. I can't take the all of the credit.
Wrath of Orion
Member
Thu Jul 09 22:00:53
Except your post was pretty much all wrong, but hey, don't let that stop you.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Thu Jul 09 22:22:30
I promise. I will be here to point out all the funny things you say.
jergul
large member
Fri Jul 10 07:29:25
Pillz
It is entirely reasonable to link dehabilitating health outcomes with death rates in the range I have given. We know that a lot of people are struggling after having covid relative to the death rate.

My point is as always. Get out of the basement and do stuff that will promote better health outcomes.

And wear the fucking mask.
Pillz
Member
Fri Jul 10 08:54:31
Where are these lots of people? Why are hospitals reporting consistent discharge rates and are now largely empty of covid patients?

Where are the doctors sounding alarms at the wards full of people with severe complications?

Fuck off and die you under evolved horse fucking eskimo
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Fri Jul 10 09:17:58
That is quite the response to someone saying, "stay in good shape and good health". Is there something sinister and Marxist I am missing in Jergul's post?
hood
Member
Fri Jul 10 09:24:42
"Is there something sinister and Marxist I am missing in Jergul's post?"

There's something suspiciously missing in pillz head.
Pillz
Member
Fri Jul 10 12:25:03
That hood supports the end of the world makes perfect sense. This is a nihilists dream I guess.

But where on earth do you retards find substantiation for your claims of disability, complications, etc, all out pacing deaths?

Where are the cases?
hood
Member
Fri Jul 10 12:53:34
Apparently calling Pillz a clinically diagnosable retard means I support the end of the world. Nobody except pillz wonder why I call him such.
Allahuakbar
Member
Fri Jul 10 15:43:01
Because drinking alcohol is not haram in the UK this happens:

http://www...39;for-alcohol-gel-inside'

Town centre hand gel stations being smashed up 'for alcohol gel inside'
Friday, 10 July

Hand sanitiser stations set up in town and city centres across England are being smashed up by people who then drink the alcohol gel inside, it has been reported.

The units, which have been installed to help shoppers protect themselves from coronavirus as lockdown restrictions are eased, are being targeted by vandals who then dispense the sanitiser into bottles for supping, BusinessWaste.co.uk, a York-based company contracted with disposing of thousands of gel containers up and down the country every week, has claimed.

“It’s happening all over the place, pretty much everywhere,” director Mark Hall told The Independent. “We take these away for councils and businesses, and we’re seeing so many damaged you wouldn’t believe.

“It’s mindless idiocy. This stuff is 80 per cent proof with who knows what other chemicals inside. Do not drink it.”


Mr. Hall went on to add that at least one supermarket chain the company dealt with had reported that such gels had become a prime target of shoplifters.

In the town of Hebburn, in the North East, several such public hand-cleaning points have been removed after residents and businesses reported them being targeted.

“We are aware that a small minority of people are using hand sanitiser stations inappropriately,” a spokesperson for South Tyneside Council, which installed the units, said.

And they added: “This is totally unacceptable and we urge people to behave responsibly. Any damage will be reported to the police.

“These points have been installed for the benefit of the whole community and in line with government guidance around social distancing and hand hygiene to help prevent further spread of Covid-19.”
hood
Member
Sun Jul 12 23:37:15
http://ars...ion-covid-19-symptoms-persist/

The skinny:
90% of hospitalized patients reported COVID symptoms a full 60 days after they tested negative for the virus. Small study, not as rigorous as one would want, but the essence is a giant dick up pillz' asshole.

So now we can say that pillz is retarded for both being unable to comprehend words AND being clueless about COVID. Ouch.
Daemon
Member
Mon Jul 13 03:48:10
http://www...the-coronavirus-outbreak-57293

Lower cognitive ability linked to non-compliance with social distancing guidelines during the coronavirus outbreak
(...)
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 10:43:20
To be fair on Pillz. His is not the best job to have if you want to avoid covid-19 stress. He is just blowing off steam.

I sincely hope.
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 16:27:12
Zero stress about corona.

But by all means, continue to freak out about a mild/moderate cold.
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 16:37:28
Corona virus quick guide

1) negative tests are usually false
2) it spreads via surface contamination, close contact, and through the air
3) it does not spread at liberal riots
4) for every death, 7 people suffer severe complications or disability
5) no natural immunity possible
6) natural immunity lasts days or months
7) you never stop having corona

Come on dumbasses
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 16:46:05
Pillz
HR giving "meaningless" instructions? Customers being even more cunty than usual for no "meaningful" reason?

Having to shut the fuck up about your covid-19 perspectives - even in the break room beyond the usual breakroom rants?

Yah, stressful.

I am not even talking about containment here. I am talking about doing stuff to make it more likely your idea of what covid-19 is, will be true in your case.
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 17:24:29
None of the directives from corporate stress me out. Tell people to wear their mask, don't let more then 8 people share a given room at a time.

Woohoo.

Customer issues more or less ceased by the end of April and were exceedingly rare (a couple a week).

I dislike having to wear a mask, but I get paid to wear it.

And I may keep some of my opinions to myself, but I certainly don't keep my corona opinions to myself.

Thankfully we haven't yet achieved parity between corona and bigotry in public discourse.

Of course, nobody who has worked for the past 3 months gives a fuck about corona anyways, and all think it's a bullshit waste of time.

Imagine that.
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 17:26:25
But go on tell us more about your supposed 3.5 million people suffering from long term
dehabilitation

Like where the fuck you're hiding them
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 17:29:20
By far the most inconvenient thing about this has been the weeklong waiting list for my barber.

But it'll all good now
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 17:31:50
Pillz
What are you on about? 4-7 times the number of dead is not 3.4 million no matter if you are counting US dead (less) or global deaths (more).

We are not even close to long term yet btw. The current number of people recovering from covid is at least double what I was suggesting.

A significant number of the will fully recover.
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 17:37:46
500k*7 is what again
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 17:46:16
Pillz
Ok. Since we are doing globally. They are found globally. Where did you think they were?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jul 13 17:59:34
574k x 7 = 4 million (global)

138k x 7 = 966k (US)

If you want to round to the nearest 100k, it isn't 500k. It's 600k.

600k x 7 = 4.7 million

Im gonna have to give the arithmetic award to Jergul on this one. Just look at what the critics said:

"A brilliant exposé on the magic of numbers"
-Norwegian institute for people who can do simple math and other stuff.

"His greatest work since Jergulmath volume 2"
-The ghost of von neumann

"I just don't know how he does it!"
-Random guy on the street
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 19:01:56
Fair enough.

So there have been just shy of a million cases of corona virus causing serious long term complications in the United States.

Out of 3.78 million confirmed cases.

A quarter of cases have resulted in death or serious dehabilitation?

That seems... Highly suspect.

And at this rate if people still suffer from it after 2 months, can they transmit it?

Now that so many people in urban centers around the world have been infected, how long do we all self isolate and quarantine? Indefinitely?

This is never going away, and for some reason you've got this notion that it is the most pressing illness in history. Well we are stuck with it.

And no one at all can ignore the fact that this is basically a gamble of a cold, but with very favourable odds.
Habebe
Member
Mon Jul 13 19:31:37
Idk, the "magic" of numbers sounds like witchcraft or Satanism at the very least magic
... Best we should burn him, if he dies he was innocent of wrong doing but if he lives its magic.

20-25% seems crazy high, what exactly defimes " serious dehabitilitation"
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 19:45:35
Nimi
Is 4 million not more than 3.4 million?

" number of dead is not 3.4 million no matter if you are counting US dead (less) or global deaths (more)"
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 20:11:45
Habebe and Pillz
Comorbidity (diabetes + covid survival = disabled)
Mental health issues.
Long term lung and cardiovascular damage
Neural damage
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jul 13 20:12:18
I gave you the arithmetic award Jergul! You can't get the award if you are not correct. The "critics accolade" part was for Pillz failing simple arithmetic.
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 20:13:08
You might want to reverse it. What % of people that have been in ICUs or on ventilators do you think will make a full recovery?
jergul
large member
Mon Jul 13 20:13:53
Nimi
Yay! But no reward for reading skillz :D.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Mon Jul 13 20:37:04
Even the sun has its' spots Jergul ;-)

Though, to be honest the hurdle to overcome here with the peeps isn't the difference between 3.4 and 4 million. It is a much more severe issue expressed as "I decided that covid was not a big deal in February when no one really knew anything". Only the actual apocalypse would vindicate those that prescribed caution. And that was never going to happen, even if this was the second black death, *we* would never allow that to happen.

That is a very strange logical trap, to win the argument, the world needs to be littered with dead bodies.
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 20:50:46
Might as well bring on a nuclear winter - it might stop corona
Pillz
Member
Mon Jul 13 22:08:01
I realize where your misconception about my position on this topic lies.

You see, I agree with jergul about how containment should be done, in his most extreme opinion re authoritarianism and China.

If this were serious, or I had any inclination to believe it were, I'd frankly of stopped working, collected the benefits I'm entitled to, found a stay at home job, and be advocating for the carpet bombing of localized outbreaks.

But I don't see a threat here. Except in the overall poor strategy, politicization, ineptitude, and overall reaction.
Dukhat
Member
Tue Jul 14 03:49:02
Pillz' brain exploded dealing with the nuances of dealing with the Coronavirus. At least he's wearing a fucking mask. Noone cares about your rationalizations. All the cuckservatives feel like they have to prove to other cuckservatives why they defied god-emperor Trump.

Dude is gone. Best to make excuses now why Trump's personal issues caused him to be defeated like you did with Bush ... all to hide culpability for your shitty "I-only-care-about-myself" beliefs.
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 05:21:28
cuckhat forgot bush served two terms
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 05:35:25
Pillz, the problems is that as early as February, based on rather poor evidence of what we were dealing with, a bunch of people including you, were telling us this isn't a big deal. Had we taken it deadly seriously and shut down, this would be over.

"But I don't see a threat here. Except in the overall poor strategy, politicization, ineptitude, and overall reaction."

You don't see a threat, apart from all the threats you just listed that have emerged. So, maybe a pandemic has more risks that the disease itself? It is one of public trust and strategy. Again, before any of these things had materialized, "not a big deal".

I really want to understand people with that sentiment, because this WILL happen again. Already 2 more pandemic potential viruses have been discovered in China. This will happen again and when it does, right at the beginning, the first 2 months, there will be many unknown factors.
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 12:33:13
In February we should have just cut off China wholesale. Waited a few weeks or months and taken it from there.

Any course of action after that that wasn't a reaction to mass death never would have had my approval.

And thus far ive been vindicated by every measure.

Granted, if health officials and politicians put the same effort into their response without lockdown as they did into the lockdown, we may be worse off. But we'd deserve it for letting retards hold the reigns of critical services.

I've also posted multiple times to say how cases and caseload should have been handled. It isn't as though I jumped in at the start to say 'fuck it it's a cold'. But I'm not going to support, to any degree, proposals thatve been implemented or are in effect because they're all mind bogglingly stupid.

We are still not properly isolating corona cases in most hospitals and emergency rooms from regular patients, despite a tremendous uptick in those regular emergency visits since the end of lockdown (back to normal levels).

Any attempt at this stage to undo the damage via broad policies that impact the general public and daily life are counter intuitive and present a greater threat then the virus.

And we knew this as early as March (in February I was still calling for the ostracization and quarantine of all of China)
hood
Member
Tue Jul 14 12:36:46
"In February we should have just cut off China wholesale."

February was too late.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 13:58:12
Yes, by february you had community spread on the west coast, first dead is recorded in Feb. Not only have you not been vindicated, but the virus has actually been circulating far earlier than initial assessments. Which bringa us back to the hurdle I mentioned. We are in July now, we have a pretty good understanding roughly of how things unfolded and yet you feel vindicated.

Close the border with China, by all means, but it would not have helped stop it in February. You would have needed to do that in early January, for which there was no strong evidence and arguments.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 14:01:28
And it wouldn’t even help with only China, it would have had include all countries that did not also close down China. You would have gotten it from the international conveyance, likely from the EU.
sam adams
Member
Tue Jul 14 15:11:10
Ya, most US cases came through london-heathrow
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:04:20
http://www...tter&__twitter_impression=true


We might be paying for the damage from covid for years, public health wise
hood
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:10:53
^ that study isn't that great to show widespread issues. It's saying that a high percentage of people whose treatment indicated that they needed a heart scan were positive for heart abnormalities. Well, duh.

If the takeaway is that COVID can damage the heart, then yeah, serious shit. But it doesn't indicate how common it may be.
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:39:10
I supported measures against China to contain the virus up until March, at which point I supported them just because fuck China.

Whether it was too late in February is besides the point, we were all watching Wuhan unfold and were in disbelief at china's #s even then. It probably would have still helped.

And I fail to see how the virus escaping China does anything to discredit me. None of the measures proposed or enacted in western countries worked, and were never going to work.

Montreal was shut down. Nothing open but gas stations, hospitals, and grocery stores.

Airbnb shut its service off.

Police gave like 15mil in fines in the first 2 weeks for violations ranging from being in parks to having a passenger in your car to throwing parties.

Community spread is unstoppable. The best course of action would have been to mitigate deaths via health care segregation.

Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:40:48
And I did mean a global ban on international Chinese travel.

Let the planes out of the air fall when they run out of fuel. Obviously this would have been more challenging with some flights but I think we'd have managed.
hood
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:41:32
I mean, just about every piece of data we have proves you wrong.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 16:44:15
I am glad we finally agree that your stance on China never actually had anything to do with the spread of the virus. What you proposed is effectively useless in stopping the spread into the country. I sense that you want to be stern and decisive in dealing with to the pandemic, but have misdirected it entirely.
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:45:37
No, it doesn't.

Lockdown was ineffective across the board.

Ironically Sweden's caseload is dropping too and they didn't lock down, and suffered one of the worst outbreaks in Europe. I'd be surprised there are any Swedes left if I were you
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 16:55:26
The first sign of an epidemic in China should be met with force.

In mid March as we watched Italy we already had indications it wasn't a serious pandemic. It was still new though, so confidence in that limited data set was low.

But it was fairly spot on with regards to what to expect.

- primary failing point in the healthcare system was nursing homes
- demographic most at risk 71+
- most deaths were the result of incompetence within the healthcare system

And every country has had identical results. With the biggest difference being vector of transmission.

Seems Italy it was mostly young people (like we see now the the states) whereas in most places (particularly a few weeks into lockdown) it was healthcare.

You fucking idiots can cry and cry and cry, but lockdown didnt work. So how long do you intend to stunt the economy, personal lives, and education for?

What brilliant plan do you have to propose as a substitute?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 16:56:09
Perhaps not so ironically, all the surrounding countries that did close down, have far fewer dead people and contained the spread quicker. I am not sure what the point is. Sweden played a risky game and paid the price. Our economy is getting fucked like everyone else's. There is zero upside. You will be happy to know that it was a social democratic reason for this,

"it will be unequal because everyone can not work from home".
-FHM Director.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 17:05:12
"but lockdown didnt work."

Well, I guess if you discount all the countries where it did work. You are correct.

"What brilliant plan do you have to propose as a substitute?"

Since you have decided to go full retard and assert that lock down don't work, I guess this is the part where you walk away and feel vindicated!
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 17:22:41
I'd be curious to see reports on how Norway and Denmark dealt with contact tracing and health care streams for corona and non corona individuals.

Which as we saw in South korea, do work.

What does not work is locking down and transferring medical staff to 10 locations in a week or combining streams of care.

But yeah ok. Let's use two of the world's most wealth and (thank God Sweden is excluded competent nations at the standard (Denmark and Norway)

What went wrong in Germany, France, Belgium?

And again, because of the interconnected globalist nature of life today, do localized victories regarding containment even matter?

A little shy of half the people on earth live in countries that, at the moment, do not have any control on the situation or never did.

I'm still waiting on your genius mouth breathing response.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 17:34:01
It would be beneath my genius to argue against someone who shamelessly just makes shit up as he goes and denies things that happened 3 months ago. Lays out "close border with China" as his first argument and then when people tell him this would be ineffective, he proceeds to reveal he just wanted to fuck with China. There is no amount of genius that can cure your kind of retard.
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 18:21:37
You can not read. I'm not sure if that's a product of being Swedish or Iranian.

I said my stance changed in March. The initial idea was to isolate the virus. That's pretty clear in my post.

Make shit up like what, retard? You post a lot without for someone who is evidently incapable of voicing their opinion on specific topics when pressed, or anything in this thread for that matter.

Lockdown did not work. It's a zero sum game, and you lost.

What is your next step, other then to become a recluse?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Tue Jul 14 18:42:08
I just explained the order in which your China stupidity came. You said close border with China in February, several poster explained why this would have been fruitless. You then said, by March I just wanted to fuck with China. You just went from retard, to a higher form of retard. As if the change from doing something with no effect to keep doing the same thing just to fuck with China was some how salient.

"What is your next step, other then to become a recluse?"

Why would explaining this, when you have asserted that lock down does not work, be a reasonable thing? First concede that lock downs work and then I will explain the next step.
Pillz
Member
Tue Jul 14 19:22:33
'up until march' is what I said.

I don't care enough to have the timeline of this non-issue virus and my corresponding reactions committed to memory.

Assume it was February - which is, realistically, when people began to worry about it. You can scream and cry and kick all you like, but it won't change how wrong you are about imposing a lockdown on China in February.

January 20, China confirms human-to-human transmission.

'February' isn't far off from that, and unless we intend to pretend like we can quarantine China every single time a new virus is found, any earlier would have been overly ambitious - if not dramatic.

Now, you can, once again, cry all you like, but if we'd suspending travel from China in February, many of the carriers of the virus would not have made it home. Mitigation is the word for that, in case you were struggling.

And lockdowns do not work - and this is going to shock an illiterate retard like yourself, but I've been saying it repeatedly - because of failures in the healthcare system.

But for many, many reasons beyond that. Jergul has always been correct that the reason Wuhan and China 'succeeded' is because of the lengths they went to. Which is not to say I trust china's numbers. But obviously 6 months into this and China is still standing.

I video chat with friends in China, they're definitely still there.

So some lockdown do work. But because of the lack of authority, lack of cooperation, lack of economic controls, and lack of basic medical sense, lockdown in western democracies do not.

Yes of course, the sheep fuckers and the closest Nazis did it right. But what's that count for now, when, again, half the people on earth did not?

I understand your urge to argue about the minute details and argue the what-should-have-beens. But this isn't a discussion about how obviously retarded a past event was.

It is about one an ongoing event. At this point whether I'm right about closing Chinese borders in February, or whether lockdown works (hint, it didn't) is irrelevant.

'we should have locked down better waaaaaah'

If the virus were serious, a serious lockdown should have been enacted -after- that fact had been established. Not an economy shattering half hearted one that got us nowhere. Before confirmation, or any attempt at a lockdown, the health care system should have been the focus.

Again, Quebec had no shortage of space to begin with, managed to build and allocate additional capacity up to 4 weeks before lockdown, and made no preparations on how to manage testing, patient inflow, care streams, or delineation of spaces and workers.


I'm proposing we focus our efforts on the medical response and enact a full reopen in order to try and begin an economic recovery. Corona is not a serious threat and no data suggests otherwise.

What do you have to suggest? That we all throw our hands up and wait at home?

Just like the rest of you, I watched the numbers in Italy role in. But then we got context.

I see the need to take aggressive action against a serious, world altering pandemic, not the need to manufacture the illusion of one 6 months later.

Seb
Member
Wed Jul 15 01:40:39
Lockdowns have worked though. Nearly everywhere.

The only places they've failed have been places that half arsed them.
Seb
Member
Wed Jul 15 01:42:27
Even in Western democracies.

They worked in much of Europe, where disease prevalence remains low and is now managed by local lockdowns and disease control measures.

In what way have they "not worked".
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jul 15 10:14:48
Pillz
1. Closing the border with China would do nothing, most of the cases came from Europe.

2. Fucking with China, is counter productive.

3. Lock downs work, when done properly.

4. Fear is a good risk management strategy.

The reason we started talking was:

"I really want to understand people with that sentiment, because this WILL happen again. Already 2 more pandemic potential viruses have been discovered in China. This will happen again and when it does, right at the beginning, the first 2 months, there will be many unknown factors."

My conclusion is that you are a complete retard. There is no logic behind anything you say, when issues are raised with the things you say, you just move on. You assert patently false things, it is even worse than talking to RoB about the health effects of water. He would at least retreat back into the Motte, "you need to drink water to be healthy". You just stroll around, impervious to the issues raised. Full retard.

Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 15 10:47:20
You're patently retarded. In your entire post, nothing you said was correct.

The point was to try and close the border before wide spread international transmission. Which could have worked. First UK death was early March. The first US death in late February.

If a collective embargo on travel to and from China has been implemented after human-to-human contact were confirmed (in late January), then it would definitely have stemmed the tide of the pandemic.

Fucking with China is never counter productive - because ultimately we shouldn't even be allowing a state like China to exist. I don't care how that result is achieved, nor the little things that get done along the way. This was/is/should be great pretense to get started.

You are retarded so I guess I have to break things down for you.

Lockdown what, you dumb motherfucker?
How did it work out so far dumbass? At what fucking point did you want everyone to lock down?

Obviously Italy didn't have much time. First confirmed case February 15th. First confirmed death was I believe the 28th. Lockdown was implemented March 9th.

How little notice do you expect is necessary to lockdown a country of 70 million? Forget the tourists and having to put them up or send them back.

Now multiple that by all of the fucking world.

Then there is the fact that even though governments should have spent a month or two preparing for the pandemic, they did what, asshole?

Told people to stay home. Then proceeded, universally, to be the #1 enabler of not only the spread but the deaths as a result.

So how long were places suppose to lockdown for? What does your magical lockdown look like? How do you propose the lockdown strategy function now?

You can't lockdown 7 billion people the world over with the snap of your fingers. You can't even lockdown a country like that. You can isolate a single country.

And why the fuck are you making the world's newest cold the Hill you want to die on, anyways?

'fear is good risk management'

Youre leaning on fear because you aren't intelligent enough to consider education an option? Or are you so stupid maybe you think that it's easier to lockdown then to educate the general public? Not that the later is easy, but lol@you retard.

Your last paragraph is just great. You keep this up
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Wed Jul 15 12:03:36
"If a collective embargo on travel to and from China"

Ah, so your strategy has now upgraded to some collective of countries who can't agree on anything to agree on embargoing travel with China. You just will not let go of this China thing, for reasons you have clearly spelled out.

"Lockdown what, you dumb motherfucker?"

Is this a real question? Of course it. EVERYTHING! Beside critical services.

"How did it work out so far dumbass?"

Pretty well.

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

http://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/

You mentioned these countries as failures! Obviously too dumb to understand what the aim is and what success looks like. You surprise me with how stupid you are.

"Then there is the fact that even though governments should have spent a month or two preparing for the pandemic, they did what, asshole?"

Didn't we already discuss this? That there are more risks? Have we not all said that the pandemic has exposed weaknesses in our societies? How is this something I should answer for? Very few countries have handled this well. Go back and read why I started asking you questions to begin with.

"Youre leaning on fear because you aren't intelligent enough to consider education an option?"

You don't understand the use of fear. Shocker. Fear -> caution -> action. It isn't something you lean on you idiot. Yes the intelligent person is fearful when they do not know what they are dealing with. They remain conservative and cautious and deploy counter-measures, they even overreact. You buy time, to figure things out.

This is something even you should be able to understand.
Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 15 13:21:09
You're so fucking retarded
Pillz
Member
Thu Jul 16 16:00:36
Germany has reported 3 straight days of increases in new cases.

Lockdown work!
Nekran
Member
Thu Jul 16 22:23:34
You realise they haven't been in lockdown for quite a while, right?

Also weird to choose Germany as an example, considering its very low death rate...
Pillz
Member
Fri Jul 17 18:24:16
Again, lockdowns cant be said to work if we need to lockdown forever.

The Independent: Coronavirus: Levels of herd immunity in UK may already be high enough to prevent second wave, study suggests.

http://www...dy-boris-johnson-a9623791.html


"Levels of herd immunity within the UK may already be high enough to prevent a second wave of coronavirus, a new study by Oxford University scientists suggests.

The researchers posit that some of the population may already have a high level of immunity to Covid-19 without ever having caught it.

In a paper yet to be peer-reviewed, they point to evidence suggesting exposure to seasonal coronaviruses, such as the common cold, may have already provided some with a degree of immunity, and note that others may be more naturally resistant to infection.

Modelling how differing levels of pre-existing immunity between individuals could affect the overall “threshold” needed to prevent a resurgence of the virus, they found that this could be as low as 20 per cent.


“It is widely believed that the herd immunity threshold (HIT) required to prevent a resurgence of SARS-CoV-2 is in excess of 50 per cent for any epidemiological setting,” wrote Jose Lourenco, Francesco Pinotti, Craig Thompson, and Sunetra Gupta, all of Oxford University.

“Here, we demonstrate that HIT may be greatly reduced if a fraction of the population is unable to transmit the virus due to innate resistance or cross-protection from exposure to seasonal coronaviruses.”

They added: “These results help to explain the large degree of regional variation observed in seroprevalence and cumulative deaths and suggest that sufficient herd immunity may already be in place to substantially mitigate a potential second wave.”

Calculations along a similar line by Gabriela Gomes, a professor of mathematics and statistics at Strathclyde University, have also placed the threshold needed for herd immunity at below 20 per cent."

More at link.
Nekran
Member
Fri Jul 17 23:55:44
"Again, lockdowns cant be said to work if we need to lockdown forever."

Nobody's saying that though?

You a
Nekran
Member
Fri Jul 17 23:56:43
You also can't say "lockdowns don't work", just because there's a bit of a rise in new infections after they are ended.

That's just stupid. And apparently that actually is what you are saying.
Pillz
Member
Sat Jul 18 14:01:23
So lockdowns working = we should be locking down every few weeks?

Youre fucking retards.
Pillz
Member
Sat Jul 18 14:03:57
And mask wearing has been mandatory in Germany nearly 3 months now

Youre a bunch of dipshits who can't set parameters or conditions for how to determine success, but keep yelling it works.
Seb
Member
Sat Jul 18 16:06:51
Pillz:

I don't know how many times it's been explained how the thing work for exit and you guys keep going "OMG lockdown forever!!!"
Pillz
Member
Sat Jul 18 16:10:46
No, you have presented an incoherent theory that has built in economic collapse and repeated lockdowns
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Jul 18 16:26:02
Pillz
You insufferable moron...
Next time we have a pandemic the only sane thing, regardless of what the next step is, is to lock fast and hard, even if only to buy time, orient ourselves and figure out what the next step is.

This was the C grade question you failed in February and even still now in July. You don’t need a PhD in epidemiology or statistics to figure this out, you only need one evolutionary validated principle. The first rule to success, is to stay alive.

How did your ancestors survive for this long? Because of people with enough brains to stay fearful that’s why. Herd immunity against stupid.
Pillz
Member
Sat Jul 18 16:30:55
You are about as smart as a dead post op transsexual.

Do you not understand what you're saying? I mean obviously the scale of history of pandemics escape you. As do the mechanisms underlying each.

Just kill yourself and save us from one more masking wearing idiot
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sat Jul 18 17:06:50
You are completely incoherent. I don't wear a mask, nobody wears a mask in Sweden. It would be socially awkward and if it one thing us Swedes do not do, is be socially awkward. But obviously you have not missed a chance to politicize mask wearing as well. You are such a predictable dolt, you know that?
jergul
large member
Sun Jul 19 04:12:39
I am adding ME to the list of permanent long term damage. One of the markers for an ME diagnosis is anti-bodies for certain types of viral infections.

Covid-19 looks to be another one of those.
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