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Utopia Talk / Politics / Actual police reform
Habebe
Member
Sun Jul 05 04:47:10
Where to start?

Well lets answer a few questions if we can.

1. What States or cities in the US seem be policing well while not having as many of these issues of killings, abuse , theft etc.

Is it replicable elsewhere ot can we modify it to be so?

2.Lets separate the main problems people are having with the police.

A. Lack of trust.
B. Excessive violence ( non lethal)
C. Killings
D. General over policing or lack of well focused policing.

Please feel free to add or argue.

3. During what crimes do the above issues occur. Meaning do most killings occur during traffic stops? Drug related? More serious crimes.such as ape, assault, murder etc.?

For example if hypothetically most killings occurred during traffic stops, them we have to ask ourselves is a guy who blew a red light worth it? Perhaps we could just send a.ticket in the mail and avoid that. Just an example, I'm not saying that is the case.

So lets start with trust. Why is there mistrust on such a scale?

My hypothesis from my experiences is the following are the largest contributors to mistrust.

1. The drug war, simple possession and messed up " Possesion w/intent laws" lead us to criminalizing drug use, which causes more problems than it helps.

It makes drug users have an irrational fear/hatred of the police and thus are not going to trust them. Which leads to these people not feeling able to call amd trust the police when it is actually beneficial.

It would.eat this entire post up in a wall of text to go on to the many negative effects.of.the drug war. Such as loss of welfare.assistance, harder to get jobs, losing jobs for.beimg locked up, losing possessions etc.

Also it has bled into people Americans not trusting our doctors and.turning Doctors into snitches.

I think a national decriminalization of most drugs in lieu of a more health oriented approach is a start. My body, my choice. Im sure the taxation of small amounts of narcotics could easily pay for more effective medical approaches to addiction such as responsible drug use, mitigation of negative side effects and rehabs.

Now other than drugs, I think the incentives skewed.

1. For profit prisons mist be banned. Not only does it lead.to poor policing and laws but its just immoral incentivize locking up more people for longer and eanting return customers.

2. Civil forfeiture , his is legal theft by the police amd incentivizes cops to literally take peoples property because they can keep, use and fund themselves with such proceeds. A federal ban needs to be put.in place.

3. To expand on that the police should not be allowed to fund themselves through tickets, citations and fees that lead to arrests or charges. Again poor incentives that lead to things lile arrest quotas.

Police are a necessary function of the state and as such we should pay for them like we do schools.


Well. That's a good start. To sum up up that up so far.

1. Legalize and control drug use.

2. Change incentives.that encourage poor policing policy and excessive incarceration such as profit prisons, civil forfeiture and funding poloce through charging people.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jul 05 04:50:21
Perhaps letting the citizens know netter just what do there cops do for them with a yearly audit on how many arrests, for what and what they spent their time/money on could help.

Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun Jul 05 05:02:05
Stop making convicted felons into second class citizen (revoke their right to vote).

Stop with these disgusting things like sex offender registries and others things that keep punishing people who have paid their debt. Either they are free or they are a danger to society and need more time and help.

Cancel shows like Cops, at the very least force them to blur all the faces. That show is disgusting, what is the message when a cop is admonishing a meth addict with CLEAR mental health issues? Don’t get mental health issues?
Habebe
Member
Sun Jul 05 05:10:00
Nimatzo, Thank you, I totally skipped over things like the 2nd class citizens and the failure of Probation. Well I lightly mentioned jobs and welfare.

Did you know that in the US most states will ban you forever from getting cash assistance of.ypu have a drug charge or any felony?

It varies by state but they also limit food stamps for example in SC amy felon or drug convict can never collect cash or food assistance.

I think* they block you on medical as well, not sure.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jul 05 05:10:08
Nimatzo, Thank you, I totally skipped over things like the 2nd class citizens and the failure of Probation. Well I lightly mentioned jobs and welfare.

Did you know that in the US most states will ban you forever from getting cash assistance of.ypu have a drug charge or any felony?

It varies by state but they also limit food stamps for example in SC amy felon or drug convict can never collect cash or food assistance.

I think* they block you on medical as well, not sure.
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun Jul 05 05:17:42
That is even more fucked up. If there is no road to redemption, the incentives are stacked against you. That is problematic.
Paramount
Member
Sun Jul 05 05:47:26
” Cancel shows like Cops, at the very least force them to blur all the faces. That show is disgusting”

You want to the facts and the truth to be covered up and blurred so that people can’t see what race or skin color criminals have? :P When did you become a leftist, Nim?
Nimatzo
iChihuaha
Sun Jul 05 06:41:33
I was never not a lefty or not a righty. I have earn the contempt of everyone by being ideologically incongruent support and opposition. :(
patom
Member
Sun Jul 05 08:34:10
I'm all for legalizing all drugs with a few caveats.
Drugs will be made available through dispensaries or pharmacies.
Drugs will only be sold to those over the age of 21, or preferably 25. (due to human brain development)
When you purchase drugs you are given a waiver to sign, informing you of all the known side effects and possible consequences of experimenting with the particular drug you want to use. Also signing an agreement to take full responsibility for any adverse effects from the use of your drug of choice. You or your family will bear the costs of any medical expenses arising from their experiment.
A certain percent of the profit from all these drugs, alcohol included, will go to establishing rehabilitation centers where addicts can go and try to get themselves clean.

Anyone caught and convicted of supplying drugs, including alcohol, to anyone below the minimum age will be sentenced to a minimum of 30 years in prison. No early release for any reason other than their death.
Both the pharmaceutical industy and the Drug Cartels know that the earlier they can turn someone onto their products the easier it is to gain a customer for life. There are plenty of articles explaining human brain development that can do a better job explaining this.

In the 8 years working in a jail, plus the 2 years attending drug court with my grandson, I got to know many drug addicts. The vast majority of them were turned on to drugs before they got out of HS and a goodly number of them before they got into HS.
patom
Member
Sun Jul 05 08:38:17
The only ones who can clean up the problem with Police departments are the Police themselves. Above all else they need to have certain standards of conduct. They need also to recognize the fact that there are some people who should NEVER be allowed to carry a badge and a gun. They have to be willing to clean out the rotten apples from the barrel.
patom
Member
Sun Jul 05 08:44:02
I totally agree that Private for Profit Prisons should be shut down Immediately. Their track record is abominable.

I live in Maine, one of the 2 states that allow everyone to vote. Even inmates serving life in prison have the ability to vote. In the 8 years I worked in the County jail I only remember 2 inmates asking for an absentee ballot. Not too many are that into politics. However they should be allowed to vote if they wish IMO.
Habebe
Member
Sun Jul 05 10:15:36
PAtom, 20 years ago when they forst pitched the idea, I was for private jails, Well atleast optimistically on the fence. But after seeing how they turned out and how they can lobby for stricter punishments is absurd.

We literally mixed the concept of an organization thats sole purpose is to make money for its shareholders and let it run the institution that can legally enslave people.

Some people should not be allowed in society. But if those people are so horrible to warrant that we should be willing to pay for it.

----------

Civil forfeiture loopholes aroumd the constitution.

"Shall not be deprived of Life, liberty or property with out due process"

So what they do is charge the crime not to a person but to an object such as cash and or property.

So basically a cop can say "I think this house was bought with drug money" or W\e illegal act. And confiscate and use/ fund there department that way. All while never even charging the owner with a crime.

Biden claims he will ban cash bails for most crimes. That's a good start.

Going back to due process.for a second.

Im also against emergency Restraining orders/Pfa's for the same reason, as a human, you deserve your day in court.

I understand temporarily detaining someome who is dangerous, but just cause must then later be proven, and quickly.
patom
Member
Sun Jul 05 12:16:16
Actually I don't believe the cops are the ones seizing property from drug dealers. The courts have control of that.

Too many women have been murdered or had the crap beat out of them by abusive men to ban restraining orders. Even with them the bastards still will ignore the order.

Our last Governor here in Maine tried to push through a Private Jail system here in Maine. Thank God the voters shot that one down. There is way too much documentation available to justify allowing Private for profit prisons.
jergul
large member
Sun Jul 05 12:38:46
Habebe
The only meaningful reform is to reduced the number of police departments from 12000 to 51 (who could in turn have the sum total of 12000 branches).
Forwyn
Member
Sun Jul 05 13:42:11
"Actually I don't believe the cops are the ones seizing property from drug dealers. The courts have control of that."

False. Agencies in most states get to keep the proceeds from civil forfeiture (armed highway robbery)
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Jul 05 14:17:32
I'd say Capitol Hill Police are gold standard of policing they've handled many protests without killing.
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