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Utopia Talk / Politics / Elon could be kicked out of Tesla
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 04:18:00
http://amp...t-elon-musk-over-55bn-pay-deal

I hear them bitch that he has hurt the brand, but to the consumer Musk is Tesla.

His cult of personality is a major factor in the success of the company.

jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 05:20:45
IPOs have downsides for the CEOs.

The potential loss of 55bn definitely hurts the brand.

The problem you are looking at is stockholders revolting against the pseudo ownership CEO and boards assert that is often in at the expense of the actually ownership stockholders have.

Its a common problem. In Marxist terms, controllers of the means of production are fucking with the actual owners of the means of production.

Musk should bend the knee.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 05:22:37
Well, either that, or take the company off public stock exchanges.

If he wants to be a pseudo owner, then he can do that at the expense unlisted stock holders.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 05:24:21
Note: I am using Marxism as an analytical tool here. I am not promoting the ideology that spun off from the analysis of economic development back in the day.
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 05:43:55
"Note: I am using Marxism"_ I always assume this.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 06:06:28
It does not mean what you think it means.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 07:13:24
Marxist economic theory is quite useful for analysing binary systems. Which means...you guessed it...that it is useful to use Marxism to look at polarised political systems.

I realized this a few months ago, so dusted off and read up on Marxism (the analytical tool, not the ideology that spinned off from it).
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 07:19:38
This is in other words not a case of everything looking like a nail to a hammer. I don't think I have ever invoked marxist theory in this forum before the last few months.
Pillz
Member
Wed Jul 01 08:43:13
Tesla fails without musk.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 08:59:40
Conversely, Musk fails without Tesla. A lot of his networth is tied to Tesla stock.

I have to say that it is crap poor company leadership to make a multibillion dollar listed company dependent on single individual.

It might work for Musk personally, but its not his job to make things work for himself personally.
sam adams
Member
Wed Jul 01 16:17:45
Whatever musk is doing, it is working very well for both him and tesla shareholders.

Nuff said.
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 16:50:52
Jergul, My point was that Tesla is only as popular as it is because of Musk. Now your assertion that he needs Tesla as much as it it needs him I just dont get.

Hands down yhe best immigrant the US has currently.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 17:37:58
Sammy
It would work just as well with half the capital he is syphoning off the company.

Habebe
One of the main features of modern cleptocracies is the willingness boardmembers have to transfer company property to CEOs.

Remember if you will that the boardmember of one company is often the CEO of another. One hand rubbing the other so to speak.

You don't truly believe that wealth accumulation in the top 1% is due in whole to legitimate means, do you?

As to what you asked:

"That's because he's a multibillionaire, to a degree. As Tim Higgins pointed out in The Wall Street Journal, Musk's 20% stake in Tesla makes him worth about $40 billion — but he can't sell any of those shares without relinquishing some control over the company or provoking a sell-off that could damage investors.

So Musk lives off credit: About $550 million is his current burden, owed to a trio of banks and backed by his Tesla shares."
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 18:23:01
You forget he owns the Boring company almost entirely and the majority of SpaceX.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 18:26:51
For context

In the 1950s, CEOs were pretty much the same people that lead industry or units in the military. You know, the people that won wwii.

"In the 1950s, a typical CEO made 20 times the salary of his or her average worker"

Today?

"Last year, CEO pay at an S&P 500 Index firm soared to an average of 361 times more than the average rank-and-file worker, or pay of $13,940,000 a year"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahembree/2018/05/22/ceo-pay-skyrockets-to-361-times-that-of-the-average-worker/#1740616c776d

The driver is systematic corporate disloyalty where boards defraud stockholders to benefit their own.

Its a racket.
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 18:32:49
Kimd of going off on a rant but ok, so how much does Xi make compared to the average chimese person?
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 18:33:45
Spacex owns the boring company. Musk's equity in spacex is currently 20 billion and suffers the same problems his equity in Tesla does. He can't liquidate without tanking the stock.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 18:37:00
Rant? Did you learn a new word or something?

Enjoy your cracked good phone. That is about as good as it is going to get for you. Because the system is rigged.

CEO renumeration has a real cost for all Americans.

jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 18:39:25
I have no doubt you can find more corrupt places than the US. I realized long ago that you are in a race to the bottom.

"We may be bad, but others are probably worse"

Is after all one of the three pillars of US foreign policy.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 18:40:18
(the other two are: "if we can't have it, we will break it" and "now look what you made us do")
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 18:54:03
Jergul,

1. SpaceX owns 6% of the boring company. Musk owns 90% personally of the boring company. He also owns 54% of SpaceX.

I say rant because it's a off topic, its in the genre but you complaining about how CEOs are overpaid , when the question was more Musk specific and his relationship to Tesla.

My argument being that even with the amount he has cost the company it would be terrible PR to kick him out, it would hurt the brand far more.

As for my phone, I have others. I had an LG I liked for a while so when it wnet on sale I bought 5 identical phones ( black Friday) so, when one breaks I just use another.

And yes cronieism is bad, my point being its not only a product of capitalism.
Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 18:55:39
Btw im on my 3rd out of 6 ( counting the original) sort of the 4th cause I gave one to my niece for Xmas, which she routinely loses and drops anyway, but she's 4.
jergul
large member
Wed Jul 01 19:22:24
habebe
Musk fucking around with stockholders again. He definitely used Spacex property to kick start boring. Its listed as a subsidiary of spacex on spacex wiki.

Incidentally, the other 10% is owned by the board member of spacex and tesla Steve Jurvetson, "a long time friend of Musk".

Its a racket. Specific to Musk in this case, but widespread in practice.

I personally don't get why any free market enthusiast would think pseudo ownership by CEOs at the expense of actual owners is a good thing.

Its a symptom of how broken US cronyism is.

I don't really think it is correct to call your system capitalism anymore. Certainly not after the recent corporate bail outs and Federal reserve actions. Congratz - the Federal reserve has taken on a hell of a lot of corporate debt. Because the risks belong to the public, the rewards not so much.

Habebe
Member
Wed Jul 01 19:31:48
Well capitalist leaning. Pretty much all states have a mixed economy of some sort.

You keep acting like the shareholders are losing out because of Musks personality.

They could I suppose kick him out but who would that hurt? Likely the shareholder.

This is sort of like Apple and Jobs. Remember how successful Apple was when they got rid of Jobs?

Steve on the other hand did well.
hood
Member
Wed Jul 01 21:21:01
Musk should be out of Tesla. Not only has he been a fucking assclown about it with stock manipulations (to the point of being censured by the FTC), but he's clearly underestimated the difficulty and costliness of car manufacturing. The reason SpaceX is so successful is because of the COO, Gwynne Shotwell. Musk may have had the vision, but the company would not be what it is without her. Musk clearly has not found his Tesla Shotwell and needs to.
kargen
Member
Wed Jul 01 22:23:01
Curious so I need to ask.

What the hell are you doing to your phones?

I've had my same phone for over five years and it is still in really good shape.
Habebe
Member
Thu Jul 02 00:15:46
Well, the last one slipped out of my hoodie pocket while doimg yard work and then my youngest niece has this thing where sje finds something she likes and hands it to you, but she is like 1 and 1/2.

Anyway I went to charge it after she dropped it and it looked ok and I just used the first phone, it has some small cracks from.the yard work but very usable yet so when I took it off of charge and turned it on I noticed the hairline crack, most of the time you dont notice it so whatever. Plus I got backups and at least one SD card for each 128 and 256.
jergul
large member
Thu Jul 02 06:00:38
Habebe
What is going on now is not capitalism or a mixed model. Its cleptocratic cronyism.

Tesla would have to kick the board and Musk. And to what end? Hire the same kind of people that will do the same kind of things because that is what you do in a cleptocratic crony economy.
Habebe
Member
Tue Jul 07 11:20:07
In any regard he profited 50 million. He also got a gold trimmed red pair of short shorts that read " Suck Elons Cock"

http://ele...k-millions-sec-settlement/amp/
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