Utopia Talk / Politics / These uberlyft drivers should be fired

Average Ameriacn Member	Tue May 21 11:31:33 That's basically communism: http://wjl...ivers-fares-at-reagan-national Uber, Lyft drivers manipulate fares at Reagan National causing artificial price surges by Sam Sweeney, WJLAThursday, May 16th 2019 ARLINGTON, Va. (WJLA) — Every night, several times a night, Uber and Lyft drivers at Reagan National Airport simultaneously turn off their ride share apps for a minute or two to trick the app into thinking there are no drivers available---creating a price surge. When the fare goes high enough, the drivers turn their apps back on and lock into the higher fare. It's happening in the Uber and Lyft parking lot outside Reagan National airport. The lot fills with 120 to 150 drivers sometimes for hours, waiting for the busy evening rush. And nearly all the drivers have one complaint: “Uber doesn’t pay us enough, what the company is doing is defrauding all these people by taking 35-40 percent,” one driver told ABC 7. “They are taking all this money because there’s no system of accountability,” another unidentified driver said. ABC7's Sam Sweeney asks: "Do all you guys agree with that?" “Yes, yes, yes, yes!!!!,” the driver says. Drivers say after three years of pay cuts, they now have to fight back. By turning off their apps at certain times, drivers are able to artificially manipulate the Uber and Lyft apps into higher fares. “All the airplanes we know when they land. So five minutes before, we turn all our apps off all of us at the same time. All of us we turn our apps off. They surge, $10, $12, sometimes $19. Then we turn our app on. Everyone will get the surge,” one driver says. This driver explains how they organize it. “Someone is standing by that corner. I stand by this corner and the other one stands at this corner and we say turn the app off and then go online." ABC7’s cameras roll for the first planned surge of the night. “Waittttt.....waiittttttt” "You gotta wait, you gotta wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait.” A man running the operation , alerts drivers that the time to shutdown is just around the corner. Using another app, he knows the precise moment to have everyone power down, ensuring the largest surge. “Hey! We gotta wait, we gotta wait.” “Alright—go off go off. Go, go, go, go, go, go.” “10-12 10 -12.” The surge rises to $12 within seconds. The organizer watches his phone closely. “It’s still going up. It’s still going up.” “It’s 13 still going up, it’s still going up. It’s 13. Don’t go on yet! You up?? Refresh it!” In less than 2 minutes it's over. Passengers now pay an additional $13 on their fares. “When we find out what the highest surge is, that’s when we say everybody on. And that’s when everybody gets paid what we think we should be getting paid,” the man who ran the operation says. "And does everyone oblige? Does everyone do it?, Sweeney asks. “Yes 100 percent. Everyone do it. Everyone knows it’s not worth it. They know if they take a ride from here without surge, without pumping the surge up, it’s not worth it.” In less than a minute, about 50 drivers are locked into the surge. “It’s like we work as a family, like a team together. Like as a team. We do it. Every night. We do it again. We drop off, come back again, it’s a routine. We do it to 12 o' clock." These drivers tell ABC 7 they do have a sense of guilt. They say they don’t want to do this, but because Uber and Lyft keep reducing their pay, they tell us they have no choice. They can’t afford to pickup people at Reagan for $4 in rush hour traffic. ABC7 reached out to Uber and Lyft, they responded with the following statements: Lyft: Lyft takes any allegations of fraudulent behavior very seriously as it violates our community guidelines and can lead to deactivation from the Lyft platform. Lyft drivers’ hourly earnings have increased 7% over the last two years, and they have earned more than $14B since we launched. Over 75% drive less than 10 hours a week to supplement existing jobs. On average, Lyft drivers earn over $20 per hour. We know that access to flexible, extra income makes a big difference for millions of people, and we’re constantly working to improve how we can best serve our driver community. Uber: At Uber, we work to ensure the reliability of our service for our riders and drivers. This behavior is neither widespread or permissible on the uber platform, and we have technical safeguards in place to help prevent it from happening. Drive United, an organization that informally represents the Uber and Lyft drivers, also released a statement. Drive United: For years, our wages have been declining, resulting in many drivers being unable to afford health insurance or to feed their families. Just last week, drivers in Washington,D.C. and around the world protested to demand a living wage from rideshare corporations. With that demand still unanswered, it should surprise no one that drivers are finding ways to work together within uber and Lyft’s terms to make enough money to cover their basic needs. We encourage the media to look deeper into Uber and Lyft’s unsustainable business model and the difficulties drivers face every day.
McKobb Member	Tue May 21 13:06:21 You here about that new ride share app, Scab?
Wrath of Orion Member	Wed May 22 10:08:52 Maybe they should get real jobs or drive taxis.
Forwyn Member	Wed May 22 13:14:39 Seems to me that providing a service for a fee is a job, whether or not the car is yellow.
Wrath of Orion Member	Wed May 22 13:28:16 Seems to me that you missed the point, as usual.
kargen Member	Wed May 22 15:25:55 Uber was touted as a way to make a little extra money not something to rely on for your entire income. People who think it can be their only income don't understand the business model.
hood Member	Wed May 22 16:13:53 People shouldn't be paid under minimum wage just because it's not a main job.
kargen Member	Wed May 22 17:57:04 Uber is more like a self employed scenario though. You are basically contracting out. Some drivers easily do much better than minimum wage and the national average.
hood Member	Wed May 22 19:28:09 You are not a self employed contractor if you cannot set your own price. If the drivers could set their own fees, you might have a coherent point. But your statements are about some fantasy world that only exists in your mind. Uber determines prices, Uber pays drivers out of those uber-determined prices. It should be illegal for Uber to pay any less than minimum wage for the rides. Ever. Not on average, ever.
obaminated Member	Wed May 22 19:43:07 But it's not illegal because they are independent contractors working through uber.
hood Member	Wed May 22 19:56:19 So sayeth Uber, who would never treat their workforce in an untoward manner, amirite?
obaminated Member	Wed May 22 23:32:59 well, it is what they are. it really isn't a big deal. Everyone can be an uber driver, you can't expect uber to have to pay them all bare minimum amounts when the market is totally flooded with workers.
hood Member	Thu May 23 07:26:35 Certainly I can. If an Uber driver has a passenger, Uber should be paying at least minimum wage. If Uber can't afford to do that, they need to increase prices of rides.
obaminated Member	Thu May 23 10:42:35 how is that in anyway logical? if i order an uber and only pay like 6 bucks cause i am only going a coupl miles, how in the world do you expect uber to be able to pay minimum wage? do you have any idea how companies work?
hood Member	Thu May 23 10:58:25 How long does it take to drive a few miles? If your "a few miles" takes an hour of drive time, then Uber should be charging for that hour of drive time, not for the "few miles" you traveled. Seriously, we're already seeing Uber raise prices of their rides. Uber knows it's criminally (linguistically, not legally) undercharging customers. Uber hasn't made a profit, like ever. Their IPO took a fucking nose dive because people realized Uber, with its current monetization scheme, isn't profitable. Part of this is they don't charge customers enough money (if they did, they'd just cost the same as a taxi), part of it is because they've been receiving tons of pressure to actually pay drivers a reasonable wage for the work. The bigger question is, how is any argument you've made based on reality? You have no facts, no salient point, just emotions and feelings. Yes, I know how companies work. Perhaps you should ask Uber the same question, because it's not clear that they know.
obaminated Member	Thu May 23 11:51:57 "you have no facts" claims the guy who claims uber is operating illegally... when they are operating totally legally.
hood Member	Thu May 23 13:07:21 Please note: I said "should be illegal." You can't even get facts right when you try to use them.
obaminated Member	Thu May 23 15:54:40 Your idea, is noble but very stupid. Youd either cause uber to stop hiring people (thus hurting people looking for work) or cause uber to go bankrupt by paying out to people not getting fares while being "active " thus hurting workers. I'm surprised Hood, normally people from your tribe understand how business works.
kargen Member	Thu May 23 15:57:41 "You are not a self employed contractor if you cannot set your own price." They are not employees. They do not have set hours. They provide their own vehicle. That is pretty much the definition of contract labor. They agreed to the terms when they signed on. Their choice. If they don't like the pay they are free to move on to something else. That is the beauty of being contract labor. Uber does charge by the minute. In most large cities it averages out to about a dollar a minute. According to the article Uber takes forty percent of that. Simple math a driver can make $36 for an hour of drive time. Well above minimum wage. If those drivers are saying they make less than minimum wage then they are counting the time they spend sitting around playing Candy Crush while waiting for a pick-up.
hood Member	Thu May 23 20:27:15 "paying out to people not getting fares while being 'active'" Holy fuckballs, how are you this retarded? Please read carefully: "It should be illegal for Uber to pay any less than minimum wage for the rides" See those last 3 words? "for the rides"? Where in your liquor addled brain did you get the idea I was suggesting that Uber pay people for idly sitting on stand by? But we can be even more explicit: "If an Uber driver has a passenger, Uber should be paying at least minimum wage." Note the key phrase "has a passenger." How could you possibly interpret my stance as applying to people "not getting fares" as you term it? I specifically stated that a driver had to have a passenger (i.e. "getting fares") as a condition to apply my argument. You are terminally retarded. "They do not have set hours." Shitty argument. I don't have set hours either, but I'm an employee. "They provide their own vehicle." Another shit argument. Taxi drivers also provide their own vehicle. "They agreed to the terms when they signed on." They specifically could not agree to any terms regarding compensation. That's part of the Uber app; it determines price/payment at the point of sale. An Uber driver could not ever have legally agreed to a contract for a set pay until they're clicking accept to pick up a passenger. By then, Uber has dictated a price to the driver and has built in penalties if drivers reject the poor paying rides that don't earn any money. "Uber does charge by the minute. In most large cities it averages out to about a dollar a minute." False. http://rid...how-is-my-uber-fare-calculated Literally top 5 links in a simple google search. The listed example charges $0.21 per minute. That comes out to about $12 an hour, of which Uber takes 40%. A driver is now looking at $7.2 for that 1 hour drive (plus miles driven). Y'all hate facts yet? Or do facts just hate you?
kargen Member	Thu May 23 20:55:46 "Shitty argument. I don't have set hours either, but I'm an employee." Are you salaried? Are you expected to work a set number of hours a week? Can you not work for several days in a row then just show up again? "They specifically could not agree to any terms regarding compensation. That's part of the Uber app; it determines price/payment at the point of sale." And that is the terms they agreed to. http://uberestimate.com/ try that.
kargen Member	Thu May 23 21:08:19 From a Business Insider article. "Uber has repeatedly been criticized for not paying drivers— which it classifies as contractors rather than employees — a livable wage. According to a study commissioned by New York City, the median Uber driver takes home $14.17 per hour, the second-lowest among four major ride-hailing companies in the city." Minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. They are making not quite double minimum wage on average. Some make more and obviously some less. And to put that employee argument to bed, Uber drivers pay self employment tax. Same tax independent contractors pay.
hood Member	Thu May 23 21:37:25 Problem with median Uber driver: plenty of people drive only during surge pricing times like holiday weekends or party nights around holidays. I work with one. Median driver, without discounting this group of barely-workers, greatly inflates that statistic. And it should also be noted that Uber doesn't pay for gas or car upkeep. At their base rate on your calculator, Uber is literally paying the minimum deductible cost set by the IRS. This per mile rate is normally on top of earned wages for driving. Any real business would have to pay that $.58 per mile on top of base pay rate. But yeah, please keep burying yourself.
obaminated Member	Thu May 23 22:26:44 what the fuck are you talking about? the rates in my area are literally something like 90 cents a minute plus additional cost for time. if i order an uber for a 20 mile trip, it usually takes about half an hour and i pay about 25 bucks. if uber takes 40% then the driver made about 16 dollars in half an hour. get the fuck out of here to complain about uber not paying independent contractors for their gas or car upkeep.
hood Member	Thu May 23 22:35:44 So in the face of facts, you... go for misinformed anecdotes? According to both the site I linked AND kargen's, your 20 mile trip costs ~$20 for the distance and ~$2 in fees. So the 30 minutes of drive time accounts for about $3 of that, or about $0.10 per minute. Facts > mtard yet again.
obaminated Member	Fri May 24 01:55:41 rofl holy shit how fucking dumb are you. "So the 30 minutes of drive time accounts for about $3 of that, " after they made 20 dollars. haha you are fucking dumb dude. this exposed you like crazy. "uber needs to make sure they at least pay minimum wage to their drivers" __they are they showned to pay way more than minimum wage___ hood still panics. what a dumbass.
Dukhat Member	Fri May 24 01:56:23 Obaminated is so embarassingly stupid.
obaminated Member	Fri May 24 01:57:34 like at this point once does have to wonder if you know fundamental math. you literally are bitching about uber not paying minimum wage... when you straight up admit the average uber driver makes a dollar an hour.
obaminated Member	Fri May 24 01:58:17 aaahhhh fuckery, a dollar a minute***
hood Member	Fri May 24 06:44:13 "a dollar a minute" "the median Uber driver takes home $14.17 per hour" "once does have to wonder if you know fundamental math" Please, keep fucking talking, trailer trash.
obaminated Member	Fri May 24 09:02:28 Hey hood, is 14.17 per hour more or less than minimum wage?
hood Member	Fri May 24 09:49:15 Hey mt, do you know how many works?
obaminated Member	Fri May 24 09:50:59 yes, i have a general idea. i know that, even at your best argument, you are literally admitting that the thing you are bitching about isn't a problem. Meaning, Uber does, on average, by your own admission, pay double minimum wage. So, your entire argument in this thread, has been a stupid philosophical exercise that doesn't exist in the real world, at all.
obaminated Member	Fri May 24 09:51:59 you are like the girlfriend, who spends 6 hours straight arguing about "what if we had to move away from each other" when no one is moving anywhere and she just wants attention. i am sorry you need attention, hood.
hood Member	Fri May 24 10:30:59 Uber pays that, on median, in New York City. Median is fraught with error if surge only drivers aren't controlled for and median hourly rates in New York City doesn't translate to any other location (unless you've got evidence that it does). That same study also noted that Uber drivers were paid poorly compared to drivers for other comparable companies. Also I'm glad that you were able to understand the many typo meant math. Damn phones.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun May 26 21:08:54 So is it better for workers’ rights if I take an/a Uber/Lyft from the airport or just ride a luck dragon to my destination? And keep in mind that while my destination is ten thousand miles away, Falkor may only bring me nine thousand eight hundred and ninety-one miles...
chuck Member	Sun May 26 23:09:48 obaminated Member Fri May 24 09:02:28 Hey hood, is 14.17 per hour more or less than minimum wage? Less than minimum wage in NYC.
Forwyn Member	Mon May 27 00:50:37 #fightforhighercostsofliving
kargen Member	Mon May 27 03:43:51 "That same study also noted that Uber drivers were paid poorly compared to drivers for other comparable companies." Then they should switch companies, and it is still above minimum wage.
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