Utopia Talk / Politics / Trayvon'd over a parking space

tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jul 23 20:15:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDtzofAUSJI Stand Your Ground is stupid
smart dude Member	Mon Jul 23 20:18:16 He dindu nuffin!
Forwyn Member	Mon Jul 23 20:26:34 Not really Trayvon, as the victim made no further attacks. He backed away 3-4 steps after the gun was drawn. Yeah, dude should face charges.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Jul 23 20:43:35 He got what he deserved. He parked in a handicap space.
Rugian Member	Mon Jul 23 20:47:50 Shooter probably deserves to catch a charge. Either way though, nothing of value was lost.
smart dude Member	Mon Jul 23 20:49:19 Rod thinks getting shot is appropriate punishment for parking in a handicap space. Also, the guy didn't park there. His girlfriend did. We're supposed to get shot every time our girlfriends do something stupid?
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Mon Jul 23 20:50:41 The deceased: https://florida.arrests.org/search.php?fname=Markeis+&lname=McGlockton&fpartial=True
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Mon Jul 23 20:51:11 http://flo...lname=McGlockton&fpartial=True
Wrath of Orion Member	Mon Jul 23 20:51:41 lmfao Penalty for parking in a handicapped space = death. -Retard Rod
hood Member	Mon Jul 23 21:02:48 At least retard rod recognizes he deserves death for his retardation. We can only interpret his continued existence as cowardice.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Jul 23 21:09:22 "Rod thinks getting shot is appropriate punishment for parking in a handicap space." Girlfriend or not. They are probably two of a kind when it comes to character and attitude towards the world. Too bad he didn't get the girlfriend too. The shooter did us all a favor.
smart dude Member	Mon Jul 23 21:10:47 And Rod proves again that he is a complete piece of shit.
kargen Member	Mon Jul 23 21:24:06 "I have my right to park anywhere I want to park" I don't think this was a good shooting as it did look like the immediate threat was over. That kind of shit attitude from the girlfriend though is probably going to get her or someone near her in trouble again.
Forwyn Member	Mon Jul 23 21:28:23 1. Burglars are scum. Feel less bad now. 2. Handicapped spot is irrelevant. Driver was in the car and could move if a person who needed it arrived. 3. Shooter has a history of picking fights at the property and threatening people. Just as big a shit as the victim, and goes against every principle of safe and lawful carry. 4. Guy was screaming at the girl loud enough for passersby to stop and observe, and report it to the cashier. Victim abandoned his purchase to defend his significant other. 5. Victim backed up 3-4 steps after gun was drawn. "Reasonable belief" of "imminent threat" can easily be torn apart. Hope the state AG presses charges.
hood Member	Mon Jul 23 21:34:34 Anyone who goes out of their way to harass people over a handicap spot in an empty parking lot is automatic scum.
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Jul 23 21:49:03 "That kind of shit attitude from the girlfriend though is probably going to get her or someone near her in trouble again." +1. That quotation from her was pretty laughable entitlement. Like, no, you do not have the right to park in a handicap spot without a permit, and your multiple arrests BF does not have the right to assault someone who calls you out on it. .. "Not really Trayvon, as the victim made no further attacks. He backed away 3-4 steps after the gun was drawn." +1. Drawing a pistol was more than enough to stop the fight, and shooting was over-the-top while the assailant was backing away and turning away. If the assailant had charged again, then that would be more obviously protected, but it seems like even Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law would be iffy with that fight. It seems like the police will have to open the case up again, but then again.. Florida.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Jul 23 22:16:53 hood - Anyone who goes out of their way to harass people over a handicap spot in an empty parking lot is automatic scum. Yet those who scream and holler at Trump employees and Republicans in restaurants and all other public places to drive them away from a night out with family and friends not to mention showing up at their homes with loudspeakers while violating their property and causing their neighbors grief. Those people are great Americans in your estimation I bet.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jul 23 22:19:20 The person who was shot had just attacked the shooter. He stopped his attack a second or 2 before the shooting. Thats probably close enough to avoid conviction. Its a marginal shooting. In that grey area between justified and not justified.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Jul 23 22:24:12 How about folks getting beat up for wearing a MAGA hat or shirt. Do those thugs deserve a medal or should they get paid for that? Last week an Antifa group had a rally and they showed up with clubs and bats hoping some counter-protesters would show up. Did you stay in your room all day crying because there was no riot? Good Grief.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Jul 23 22:24:33 From the video it looks closer to justified than not. Shooter is not going to be convicted, except in lib media and sjws
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Jul 23 22:28:27 I heard it was a closed case and there would be no trial. Meanwhile, out West in Oakland, there have been three murders in five days on BART, Get used to it, unless you liberals get your brethren under control there is going to be a hell of a lot more of that.
Wrath of Orion Member	Mon Jul 23 22:47:41 Punishment for parking in a handicapped spot = death -Retard Rod
obaminated Member	Mon Jul 23 23:01:04 This is a joke. They park where they shouldnt park. They initiate physical contact. And they are the victims solely because they lost the confrontation they started.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Jul 23 23:07:38 should the Montenegro Prime Minister have been allowed to murder Trump? pretty sure shoves don't lead to death too often
hood Member	Mon Jul 23 23:17:33 "they lost the confrontation they started." Actually dickbag shooter started the confrontation by screaming at a lady while she was sitting in her car over something as insignificant as parking in a parking spot. Yes, lady shouldn't have been parking there, yes she's an entitled twat. But it's a fucking parking spot in an empty lot. Pretty fucking insignificant. Do we now start yelling at people over jaywalking empty streets? Like, shit. "Yet those who scream and holler at Trump employees" Completely unrelated to this incident. Kindly heed my oft given and wise advice: just die already.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Jul 23 23:37:27 hood - "Yet those who scream and holler at Trump employees" Completely unrelated to this incident. Kindly heed my oft given and wise advice: just die already. You may think it is unrelated but you are wrong. The broad that parked there to save her boyfriend a few steps have the same sense of entitlement as the brainless activists on the left who think they are entitled to fuck up other people's lives because they have a different POV. To put it in one sentence. ***The bullies think, they are entitled and the person who is, by rights, entitled has no right to anything that the bully wants.***
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 00:39:43 Imagine thinking that anyone in this situation other than the guy concealed carrying and picking a fight with a woman is a bully.
hood Member	Tue Jul 24 01:06:06 Rod, you still seem to be grasping to life. Let go. Relax. Sleep.
Paramount Member	Tue Jul 24 01:23:50 ”those who scream and holler at Trump” To scream and holler at someone doesn’t kill. But it can be perceived as unpleasant. But then again, nothing stops them from screaming and hollering back at them. ”Those people are great Americans in your estimation I bet.” They should be raised to the noble class and be rewarded with a tax cut. It would also encourage people to get involved in politics.
The UP Archivist Member	Tue Jul 24 04:44:29 *Archived*
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 07:22:49 I'm talking about bullies that think of themselves as entitled to what they are not entitled to. IMHO, the woman that took a handicap space that a truly handicapped person might have needed. You guys are overlooking the fact that the handicap space is on private property and the owner, as is their right, have set aside those spaces for those folks who need them. The woman is the true bully here.
hood Member	Tue Jul 24 07:31:01 "owner, as is their right, have set aside those spaces for those folks who need them." No. The owner is compelled to provide handicapped parking by law. Do you honestly think business owners would waste excessive parking lot space on enlarged spaces for handicap parking if it weren't required by law? "The woman is the true bully here." She bullied the fuck out of that empty parking lot.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 08:36:25 All the more reason that I am right.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 08:47:31 All the more reason you're a fucking retard. But continue to reaffirm what you're universally thought as.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 08:49:16 Also its ADA compliance not a "private" property issue. So dumb. You're so dumb.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 08:59:11 Has anyone ever noticed that some people can only ***bully*** old people and steal ice cream and candy from little kids?
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 09:08:09 So dumb. You're so dumb.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 09:27:42 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ He's like a little kid with a new toy. He is bound and determined to break it.
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 09:31:24 Funny you mention the owner, Rod. He's on the side of the victims. He's been tired of this faggot showing up and starting fights over parking spots for a while. He called the cops last month when the piece of sbit was threatening to shoot someone for it. But please, tell us more about how someone else was the bully.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 09:35:06 Hot Rod is so dumb.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 09:50:57 OK, if true then he is obviously just as guilty as the broad. But I still say the broad, and now the shooter, are a sign of the times and it is going to get a lot worse unless the far left reigns itself in. And yes, it is the far left that will be the cause and not anywhere are they close to being the solution.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 09:52:21 personally, I think cr was the shooter. Same mentality.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 10:05:09 You're so dumb.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 10:40:43 See, he broke it already.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 10:41:45 So dumb. You're so dumb.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 10:43:42 Dada fixed it for him.
Cold Rod Member	Tue Jul 24 10:44:39 So dumb. You're so dumb.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Jul 24 15:17:25 “Imagine thinking that anyone in this situation other than the guy concealed carrying and picking a fight with a woman is a bully.” Why can’t they all be pieces of shit?
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 15:27:20 Eh. The victim is still a piece of shit, but not because of this encounter. Dude is buying candy for his little boy, another customer comes in and says some crazy guy is screaming at his significant other, he comes out to protect her. Especially if threats were thrown, but even without. But if we have to declare them all assholes, on a scale of 1/10 Victim 2/10 Girl 5/10 Shooter 10/10
kargen Member	Tue Jul 24 16:09:43 The shooter might not get charged and have to go to court for a legal issue. Probably going to lose his ass in civil court though.
smart dude Member	Tue Jul 24 16:15:31 Nobody comes away from this looking like a winner. But there's only one murderer.
smart dude Member	Tue Jul 24 16:18:33 Let's be real. How much of this was actually motivated by self-defense, and how much was it motivated by heat-of-the-moment rage? More of the latter, I think. Dude was already pissed off. The shove made him even more pissed off. This is why rage-prone assholes shouldn't carry guns around.
Seb Member	Tue Jul 24 16:24:16 FFS. No. No. In no way does either parking in a disabled spot, or pushing someone over because they are screaming and threatening someone else merit murder. It's not a 1-10 scale, it's two totally different fucking scales. What the fuck is wrong with you people? This is a simple case that does not need an assessment of the character and history of the other people involved.
smart dude Member	Tue Jul 24 16:24:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HieeP6lwvg&has_verified=1 This video is a little bit better (the one in the OP cuts out a bit of footage between the drawing of the firearm and the shot). The guy is clearly backing away from the shooter before the shooter pulls the trigger and has already turned 180 degrees away from him. At least a couple seconds elapse.
smart dude Member	Tue Jul 24 16:25:21 Seb is right for once.
smart dude Member	Tue Jul 24 16:27:02 *90 degrees, I mean
Wrath of Orion Member	Tue Jul 24 16:36:48 "In no way does either parking in a disabled spot, or pushing someone over because they are screaming and threatening someone else merit murder." It does if you're Retard Rod. And that by itself, even if we did not have the years of other evidence, is proof of what a worthless piece of shit he is. It's hard to believe a human being as twisted and disgusting as him exists.
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Tue Jul 24 16:37:27 Looks like the shooter was just pissed off cause he got pushed, but if you look really closly you'd see that 1)dead guy is a negro 2) negros have the ability to run at someone backwards while getting smaller. Florida juries say its legal to shoot them when they do this.
smart dude Member	Tue Jul 24 16:44:23 "It does if you're Retard Rod." Well, Rod also thinks the girlfriend deserved to be shot too. That's the real red flag here. I think it's because he's a cripple so he feels sensitive about it. I mean if he had the faculties necessary for driving (he doesn't...he's an obese, senile, welfare leech) then he might have needed that parking spot.
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 16:46:11 Yeah, I had the same feeling. Kneejerk reaction to "bullies" feeling "entitled" to HIS spot. Nevermind that she was still in the car and would probably move if an actual disabled person arrived.
hood Member	Tue Jul 24 16:54:58 Look at the parking lot. A disabled person wouldn't have needed the handicap spot.
murder Member	Tue Jul 24 17:54:24 Handicap spots aren't there just to guarantee the handicapped a parking spot. It's also to provide them with easy access ... short walking distances, ramps ...
hood Member	Tue Jul 24 19:26:04 Like I said, tard. Look at the parking lot. She was hardly preventing a handicapped person from having any of that.
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 19:29:18 1. No handicapped person there. 2. Two different drivers parked right in front of the door. 3. Still half empty lot. 4. None of shooter's business. 5. You're retarded.
kargen Member	Tue Jul 24 19:39:02 Looking at it from the other side... Entire parking lot available why the fuck take the handicap spot. Handicap spots are wider to allow use of a ramp on the vehicle. The handicap spot is also near the ramp to get up the curb. Sure someone in a wheelchair or needing a walker could park somewhere else in the lot but then they have to go out of their way off to the side so they can use the ramp to get on the sidewalk. Doesn't matter if the whole fucking lot is empty don't park in the handicapped spot. They are located where they are for a reason. Still doesn't warrant a shooting but parking in a handicapped spot without a tag should always result in a very large fine and the car should be towed whether the owner is there to leave or not. If she had taken the 15 seconds extra to park in front instead of breaking the law none of this happens.
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 20:03:35 Shooter minds his own business, none of this happens. It would be one thing if there was someone waiting for the spot. It would even be one thing if the driver had left the vehicle. There wasn't, so we just have a hyper-aggressive busybody looking for a fight while carrying.
murder Member	Tue Jul 24 20:26:21 "Like I said, tard. Look at the parking lot. She was hardly preventing a handicapped person from having any of that." Not that it matters, but we must be watching different videos, because I count 5 cars just in view of the camera ... and the ramp was right next to the illegally parked car.
murder Member	Tue Jul 24 20:27:13 "1. No handicapped person there." How could you possibly know that?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Jul 24 21:35:52 hood, look at the clip again. There are two views of the parking lot. One shows a crowded lot during the shooting where the lot is full. The other is a film crew where they are filming the lot at a different time and the lot is empty.
Forwyn Member	Tue Jul 24 22:28:46 "How could you possibly know that?" Fairly easy; 1. There was no one visibly waiting, and 2. No one has come forward saying they were blocked from the spot. Fat disabled mouths would undoubtedly run to the media to villify the victim and lionize the shooter if they were present.
Dukhat Member	Wed Jul 25 00:35:55 Agree with Forwyn for once. Having a gun is a responsibility which this asshole abused. Put him away for life. He can try trolling in jail and then get gangraped every day. It would be fitting.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Jul 25 03:57:05 "Seb is right for once." Don't be so sure. Seb also mischaracterized (surprise!) by suggesting that "you people" thought that the couple being pieces of shit means that "you people" thought that they deserved to die for it, when at most that seems to be HR's sentiment (and even then: not admittedly). He also mischaracterized Forwyn's meaning of a 1-10 scale, either because Seb doesn't understand context and/or because he has Asperger Syndrome. So if Seb was "right", it was by setting up straw men (surprise!). .. "But if we have to declare them all assholes, on a scale of 1/10 Victim 2/10 Girl 5/10 Shooter 10/10" I'd probably give the victim a 5 or 6 (multiple arrests for possession of cocaine and an arrest for distribution, 2 arrests for burglary/theft, arrested for aggravated domestic battery and for violently resisting an officer, and here he attacks someone because he was shouting at the victim's GF) and the woman a 4 for being a belligerent entitled person (claiming a "right" to a handicapped spot) who in the shooting video seems to be arguing with the crazy person instead of maybe saying, "Sure, yeah, I'll re-park because that's what decent people do." But the shooter definitely gets the highest asshole rating because he seems to have wanted to provoke a shooting in a cesspool. Kind of an underground man thing going on maybe; he sees these dysfunctional people around him and wants to clean the streets, but he's fucked up too.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed Jul 25 04:25:04 The victim did attack the shooter.
murder Member	Wed Jul 25 07:31:15 "1. There was no one visibly waiting, and" That's a handicapped spot at a Kwik-E-Mart ... not the entrance to Disney World. No one is going to make a line. A handicapped person would either park somewhere else and deal with the inconvenience if they can, or move on.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 25 07:42:10 Cherub: You inferred wrongly.
hood Member	Wed Jul 25 07:47:11 "I'd probably give the victim a 5 or 6" Within the context of this event? I think 2 is about right for this story. He rushed to physical confrontation, but had reasonable justification for it, hence 2.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jul 25 07:54:22 What level of assholery deserves death? I think from 8 and up I start to have empathy for the shooter, 10 I forgive you by default. This was stupid and avoidable, on multiple stages, morally the shooter should suffer some consequences. It is not his job to act parking enforcer, some apathy towards the assholes around you is healthy for maintaining peace and tranquility in a city. Stand your ground is a stupid principle for citizens to apply on each other on top of the already big responsibility in owning guns that many reliably can not fullfill.
murder Member	Wed Jul 25 08:45:55 "He rushed to physical confrontation, but had reasonable justification for it..." No he didn't. Someone yelling at your girlfriend for whatever reason is not justification for battery. He arrived swinging his dick and it cost him his life.
hood Member	Wed Jul 25 08:51:29 Why are you still breathing?
murder Member	Wed Jul 25 08:51:48 btw I'm amused at how standing up for the less fortunate (policing the handicapped spot) makes you an asshole ... but flipping the bird at the handicapped and the law and battering someone makes you a victim.
murder Member	Wed Jul 25 08:52:37 "Why are you still breathing?" Because I haven't assaulted someone that is packing, I assume.
murder Member	Wed Jul 25 08:55:00 These threads are illuminating. A lot of you clearly like to violate the law and just generally do stuff that is wrong ... and you don't want to get called out for it or pay any consequences.
TJ Member	Wed Jul 25 10:35:48 The perfect storm struck in moments. All of them are victims of their own personalized stupidity. Senseless egos...
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Jul 25 10:55:13 "btw I'm amused at how standing up for the less fortunate (policing the handicapped spot) makes you an asshole" It is thinking this is somehow your job or duty, for whatever reason, when it isn't, that makes him a grade A asshole. We have delegated these jobs and responsibility to specific people who can do it reasonably satisfactory. And regardless of what anyone thinks about police brutality and such, the violence monopoly works better than vigilantism. We all admire your moral courage standing up for handicap slots, we really do, now calm the fuck down and carry on.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 25 11:14:05 Someone mentioned the shooter had a reputation for starting fights. I'd love to know if there was a profile to the kinds of people he starts fights with. While armed. Yes, battery is wrong. But not "punishable by death" wrong - and stand your ground rules surely work equally to allow someone to protect their family if they think they are threatened no?
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jul 25 11:47:39 "Yes, battery is wrong. But not "punishable by death" wrong" Death is certainly a legitimate option to stop ongoing battery. The key question here is what is 'ongoing'... a couple second gap appears to take place here. I think thats close enough, but its a bit of a grey area. Bottom line, dont commit battery and you wont have to worry about getting shot.
murder Member	Wed Jul 25 11:49:12 "It is thinking this is somehow your job or duty, for whatever reason, when it isn't, that makes him a grade A asshole. We have delegated these jobs and responsibility to specific people who can do it reasonably satisfactory. And regardless of what anyone thinks about police brutality and such, the violence monopoly works better than vigilantism." What are you going on about? The guy wasn't taking the law into his hands. He didn't attempt a citizen's arrest. He didn't try to tow the car. He didn't do anything but tell the inconsiderate douche bag that she was illegally parked in a spot reserved for the handicapped. On what planet is that vigilantism? It doesn't have to be his job. This idea that people should just mind their own business when someone is doing something wrong is exactly why society sucks. "It's not my problem!" That's awesome. But it's somebody's problem. And someday it will be you or someone you care about.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jul 25 11:51:58 How come of all the "poor black people shot be evil opressive whites/cops" that sebs and sjws whine about, about 99% are up to something shady.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jul 25 11:52:35 Murder is correct
obaminated Member	Wed Jul 25 12:23:22 "Hey, im a big dude who assaults you and can easily over power you, dont worry though, i took 2 steps back, you shouldnt defend yourself in the only way you can against a man my size.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Jul 25 14:20:47 [murder]: "Someone yelling at your girlfriend for whatever reason is not justification for battery." +1. Yelling is not a good justification for a tackle. It might be a good justification for yelling back, but that's about it. .. [murder]: "It doesn't have to be his job. This idea that people should just mind their own business when someone is doing something wrong is exactly why society sucks." +1. This shooter took things to the next level (too far), for sure, but telling people that they're fucked up in public is not a terrible thing. People can be awful and often need to be called out for it.
Seb Member	Wed Jul 25 16:20:30 Sam: If this guy was white and the shooter was black, we all know you'd be saying the shooter murdered a guy protecting his wife from the shooter.
John Adams Member	Wed Jul 25 16:35:15 "How come of all the "poor black people shot be evil opressive whites/cops" that sebs and sjws whine about, about 99% are up to something shady." Except he wasn't. He saw that his girlfriend was potentially in danger due to a subject yelling at his girlfriend, which is aggressive. Which can lead to further altercation. Can't blame him to come to her defense. Just almost as reasonable to take into account that you were just shoved down too by being flanked. And would a reasonable person who got shoved down by a larger stature person feel or could perceive that as a reasonable danger to use deadly force? Who is to say the person didn't step back and then is preparing to launch another attack. OTOH the individual did fall back and appear to disengage and would a reasonable person construe that as a stand down and would it justify deadly force. I can see it both ways. But, civilly, I can say the shooter will most likely lose. The interview with the girlfriend was awful in regards the 'entitlement' about parking anywhere they want to because it was their right. That line seems out of place to me. Not sure if anyone else felt that way. Nonetheless this was terrible all the way around. There shouldn't have been a loss of life.
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Wed Jul 25 17:30:23 The woman initiated first contact with the shooter via an act of entitled douchebaggery (lawbreaking). The shooter initiated first contact with the woman via an act of verbal aggression (non-lawbreaking). The deceased initiated first contact with an act of physical aggression (law-breaking). The shooter perceived the first contact by deceased as life-threatening, thus responding via an act of deadly force (non-lawbreaking under SYG). Really, why is this so hard for people?
hood Member	Wed Jul 25 17:34:02 "The woman initiated first contact with the shooter via an act of entitled douchebaggery (lawbreaking)." Um, no. This is a monumentally retarded statement.
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Wed Jul 25 17:34:43 Parking in a handicapped spot without proper documentation is lawbreaking, hood.
hood Member	Wed Jul 25 17:44:58 It isn't any sort of first contact, tard.
John Adams Member	Wed Jul 25 17:46:52 Wow.
Forwyn Member	Wed Jul 25 21:30:49 Handicapped parking offense, even discounting that she was still in the car, is classified as a non-criminal traffic infraction, carrying a fine of $255. Saying that the woman initiated the encounter would be akin to saying that a driver going 70 in a 60 initiated a road-rage incident in which another driver follows them to their destination to scream at them.
Forwyn Member	Wed Jul 25 21:36:03 And even if we're supposed to accept that crotchety old men screaming at people for perceived offenses is a positive aspect of society to reel in unacceptable behavior, that doesn't include threatening people. Both the owner and another patron said that the shooter has done this before. And if the shooter voiced threats, then pushing automatically becomes fully justified, instead of only tenuously justified.
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