Utopia Talk / Politics / Attack On American and Anti-Assad Forces

Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 08 09:19:18 There had been a buildup of Assad forces for the last week, but when the US contacted Russia we were told not to worry about it. Last night 500 Assad forces backed up by mortars and Russian Tanks attacked the allied forces. When they got too close the Americans called in air strikes. An American gunship with the Gatling guns, Jet fighters, and helicopter gunships along with US Marine Artillery opened up on them. At the end of the battle the Assad forces had an estimated 100 dead, while we had one allied soldier slightly wounded.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 08 09:21:29 The evidence was heard on FOX News.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 09:38:03 Maybe the Turkish offensive against Afrin convinced Assad that now was the time to start moving against the SDF? Its either that or a case of Syrian ground forces making a major tactical error.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 08 09:40:35 Could be both.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Feb 08 10:31:35 #warcrime
Forwyn Member	Thu Feb 08 11:22:47 So the US is now enforcing SDF positions east of the Euphrates. Sitting in a foreign nation and attacking government forces, claiming self-defense. Russia should drop a tactical nuke on the area and claim self-defense.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 11:29:10 Forwyn is just reciting fake news and Russian propaganda. http://www...ry.html?utm_term=.514654e7f1e8 If Russia says something, that automatically makes it false. US is completely justified in parking military forces inside another country that doesn't want them there, attacking the army of said country, and then claiming self-defense.
obaminated Member	Thu Feb 08 11:34:02 Prepare for battle!
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 11:38:22 obaminated Member Thu Feb 08 11:34:02 Prepare for battle! Honestly, the US may have to make that decision pretty soon. When the Pentagon announced last month that they were staying in Syria beyond the defeat of ISIS to defend the Kurds, it made an eventual clash with Assad, Russia, Iran and Turkey way more likely. There are strategic reasons to remain and leaving would completely fuck the Kurds, but this is classic mission creep and we are playing with fire right now.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 11:39:32 And we'd probably win that battle if we cared to, by the way. But Syria would descend into absolute anarchy that would make Iraq look take by comparison.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 11:40:07 take -> tame
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu Feb 08 12:03:18 can we just kill Assad all sneakylike and then get on out of there?
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Feb 08 12:07:18 "can we just kill Assad all sneakylike and then get on out of there?" of course you can,and then the world would thank you for getting rid of the next hitler.
Forwyn Member	Thu Feb 08 13:22:00 "can we just kill Assad all sneakylike and then get on out of there?" If you're wanting to get rid of terrorist enablers, drop a Hellfire on Erdogan, instead.
Forwyn Member	Thu Feb 08 13:49:31 Biggest missed opportunity of 2016: Fighter pilot sights on Erdogan's private jet, and didn't fire
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Thu Feb 08 15:44:59 You should stay, it will be a blast!
Aeros Member	Thu Feb 08 15:56:18 Assad should have just fucked right off. He is really in no position to be arguing over where the US wants to be. Especially since the US does not recognizes his governments sovreignty atm.
Aeros Member	Thu Feb 08 15:56:51 I expect this action was as much a warning to Turkey as it was to poke Assad in the eye.
Rugian Member	Thu Feb 08 16:00:39 Pretty brutal lesson if that's the case.
Aeros Member	Thu Feb 08 16:05:56 well we also told erdogan to keep his forces the fuck away from Manbij. If we had let Assad get closer then we told him not too the turks would not take that demand seriously.
jergul large member	Thu Feb 08 17:11:16 Do any of you really think it matters that the US attacked some tribal militiamen and destroyed a 60 year old main battle tank?
Aeros Member	Thu Feb 08 17:35:18 Russia and Assad seem to care.
jergul large member	Thu Feb 08 17:59:52 Russia and Assad are a bit busy liberating Idlib right now. I doubt Assad will even comment it.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Thu Feb 08 18:59:38 hope this doesn't affect the moderate rebels' fake chemical attack schedule.
Pillz Member	Thu Feb 08 19:59:59 US won't fire on Turkey under any circumstances. Will never happen. This was to try and convince Turkey otherwise. Too bad Erdogan has learnt he can do whatever he wants already
Renzo Marquez Member	Thu Feb 08 20:02:39 Assad be a gud boi. He dindu nuffin.
Aeros Member	Fri Feb 09 01:27:55 "Too bad Erdogan has learnt he can do whatever he wants already" I am going to have to disagree on this front. The US has sent all the diplomatic signals to Turkey that it is officially tired of their shit. Gulen remains under protection, a major prosecution of official corruption (breaking Iran sanctions) by the Turkish government proceeds in US Federal Courts, where a political ally of Erdogan will likely spend the rest of his life in US Prison as consequence. The head of Erdogans security detail is likewise subject to an International arrest warrant issued by the City of Washington and the US Federal Government for his involvement in an attack on protestors outside the Turkish embassy last year. The US also revoked all visas for travel to and from Turkey last year and only recently restored them. US-Turkish relations are at a serious nadir. Turkey seems to assume the onus is on the US to repair the damage. This is the belief of an overly proud and megalomaniacal dictator. Erdogan does not dictate policy to the United States. This attack on Assads troops threatened US positions in Syria was deliberate, and the message was aimed at Ankara. We WILL attack Turkish forces if they menace US positions in Syria.
Forwyn Member	Fri Feb 09 01:41:57 I'm not on the anti-Kurd hype train like Pillz, but it's time to go. The war is 90%+ over. We are now propping up a pseudo-state that no one else in the region wants. They should probably cut their losses and stage a mass exodus to the KRG.
Aeros Member	Fri Feb 09 01:55:22 That would be the real politick solution. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) the USA has never subscribed to that sort of utilitarian ideology. Its easily ignored over the sheer enormous power the US now wields, but at its core America is a revolutionary state driven by its ideologies. This is something that is indoctrinated into both our military and our foreign service diplomats, and translates even among our most jaded government officials. The simple truth is Turkey sat on its ass when shit got bad with ISIS. But the Kurds decided to fight, and threw their lot in with the US. And now we are stuck with them. The utilitarian solution would be the throw them to the wolves. But that is not how US policy makers think. Especially not military policy makers. From where they sit the Turks are the absolute worst and now that the war is almost won they are sweeping in to take advantage of all our work and smugly assuming their treaty with us gives them carte blanche to massacre the people we have been fighting with for the last 3 years.
Aeros Member	Fri Feb 09 02:05:54 Incidentally, the US has move the flag of a Major General to Manbij yesterday. In US military culture, there is significance placed on the location of the "guidon". "Flag Officers" are granted their own guidon. A tradition that dates back to the US Civil War, and itself a throwback to the European age of chivalry with its heraldic banners. When the US moves a "flag" to a position, its a statement of affirmation. If the "flag" is taken or forced to retreat, the entire institution is humiliated.
jergul large member	Fri Feb 09 02:33:16 Aeros As the US draws down airpower and transfers it to Afghanistan. And you are going to throw the kurds to the wolves. The only question is when. The policy maker in chief is Trump, fool. And what is this sheer enormous power you are speaking of? Does it translate to dual theater conflict capability (answer: nope, not according to the US military)? Hell, even Russia has dual theatre conflict capability. You should prolly look into that.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sat Feb 10 11:13:58 Kurds in Conflict-Ridden Northeastern Syria Turn to Kidnapping, Conscription, ISIS-like Tactics Independent journalist Sarah Abed speaks with Assyrian Christians about the systematic discrimination and human rights violations they often face in the Kurdish enclaves of northern Syria. by Sarah Abed February 09th, 2018 By Sarah Abed Sarah Abed is an independent journalist and political commentator. She covers a broad range of issues relating to the Syrian war, Kurdish issues in Iraq and Syria, as well as U.S policy in the Middle East. The following is an account of Sarah’s conversations with Assyrian Christians living under Kurdish rule in occupied northern Syria, as well as her personal take on the issues surrounding those conversations. MintPress News could not independently verify the information given by Sarah’s sources. AL QAMISHLI, SYRIA (War Report) — Over the past few weeks, multiple independent on-the-ground sources have provided and corroborated information regarding disturbing events taking place in and around the Al Hassakah governorate in northeastern Syria. One of the most startling allegations made is that the People’s Protection Units (YPG) and the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) have been arresting and kidnapping men aged 18 to 40 in the Al Hassakah governorate, which includes Al Qamishli and other towns under their control. They are taking these men against their will to Kurdish militia training camps, where they will stay for some time and receive training before being forced to fight in the so-called “New Syrian Army” or “North Syrian Army.” I was told that some of these men are being taken to the front lines to fight in Afrin as well. According to RT, in late December: “ Russia’s Reconciliation Center for Syria issued a statement accusing the U.S.-led coalition of creating the so-called ‘New Syrian Army.’ The group comprises remnants of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS), the Al-Nusra Front and others, and is based at a refugee camp in north-east Syria, which is located 20 kilometers from Al-Shaddadah town. Local refugees, returning to areas freed from IS, say the refugee camp has been used by the coalition as a training ground for militants for over six months.” Surge in kidnapping by Kurdish YPG and Asayesh Eddie Gaboro Hanna — founder of Patriarchal Relief Care Australia, a group that provides aid to Christian families impacted by wars in Syria and Iraq — stated on January 20th, that a few days prior: “ The Kurds started a new operation [whereby] they are taking young Christian boys by force to sign them up for the Kurdish military & send them to the front line at Afrin where a new battle has just commenced with Turkey on the border. … I’m with Sootoro now. That’s who I stay with — the good Sootoro of course, not the Kurdish one (Sutoro). Pretty much the Christians are treated as second-class citizens [here] in their own land. … Just like how ISIS has the Islamic tax they have their own Kurdish one. They’ve replaced ISIS.” In late January I was able to question Eddie in detail about his role and his view of these events: Sarah Abed (SA): Can you tell me about yourself, your mission, and why you are in Syria? Eddie Gaboro Hanna (EGH): I’m the founder of Patriarchal Relief Care Australia. For the past five years I’ve been organizing fundraising events and sending funds to our Patriarchal diocese in Damascus, to be dispersed to the most needy Christians suffering in war zones in Syria and Iraq. I’m now on my second aid mission to Syria and am working on projects such as repairing damaged and bombed homes of displaced families, in hopes they can return to their homes. I’m also aiding over 400 orphans and over 160 widows, as well as purchasing and supplying medical equipment, allowances and supplies to ill and disabled children. I made a documentary called “Tears of Another Genocide” to help raise awareness and show the world the persecution and genocide against Christians in the Syrian war. Watch | Tears of Another Genocide – Official Trailer SA: How long have you been in Syria during this trip? EGH: I’ve been in Syria for exactly five weeks now. SA: What areas have you visited during your trip thus far? EGH: I visited Damascus, Saydnaya, Maloula, Homs and villages in the province of Homs, Sadad, Aleppo, Qamishli, Hassakeh, and Khabour. SA: Did you receive protection from Sootoro or the SAA? If so in what areas? What type of protection? EGH: Sootoro, as in the Christian Sootoro not the pro-Kurdish fake Sutoro, picked me up and accommodated me for a week in northern Syria. In every other part of Syria I was in, which were all under the control of the SAA (Syrian Arab Army), I didn’t need any protection — only in the Kurdish (controlled) areas of Northern Syria I needed protection. SA: Have you received any threats while in Syria? EGH: No, I haven’t received any threats. SA: Has your life ever been in danger while in Syria? If so where, why, and by whom? EGH: Yes, my life was in serious danger New Year’s Eve in the Christian town of Bab Toma. I was outside among thousands in a crowd celebrating New Year’s Eve and at exactly 12:02, just past midnight, the Free Syrian Army started firing mortar shells and one landed approximately 30 to 50 meters from me killing two Christians that night. Watch | Civilians flee mortar fire, video provided by Eddie Hanna SA: What do Syrians want foreigners to know about the war in Syria? EGH: Syrians want the foreigners to know that it was never a revolution nor a peaceful protest, because in 2009, two years before the war, the terrorists started digging tunnels and stashing massive arms preparing for this brutal war. SA: What are some of the complaints you’ve heard from Syrians? EGH: Non-Kurds are treated as second-class citizens by the Kurds. They are forced to pay special taxes simply because they are non-Kurds. Christian homes have been confiscated. Kurds write on the homes that this property now belongs to the Kurds, exactly like how ISIS writes on homes they take. Syrians complain more about America and the Kurds than anything else. America funded the opposition who started the war and destroyed over a hundred thousand Christian homes, and they’ve also funded the Kurds, who are oppressing the non-Kurds and even some Kurds who disagree with their political ambitions. Eddie told me that he had “recorded a video of the writing they wrote on the wall of an Armenian home, exactly like how ISIS writes on the properties of Christians when they confiscate them.” Watch | Christian property in Qamishlis seized by Kurdish forces, video provided by Eddie Hanna  In a more official rendering of the experiences Eddie recounted a World Council of Arameans press release, titled “Kurdish YPG / Asayesh Forces Kidnapped More Aramean Christians in Northeast Syria,” which states: “ Local Christian sources, fearing for their lives and speaking on condition of anonymity to the World Council of Arameans (WCA), report that they are facing more and more harassments from the Kurdish YPG and Asayesh (security forces). On Friday, 19 January, the first grave human rights violations of the new year included the abduction of seven Christians — four Armenians and three Arameans (otherwise known as Syriacs). Nevertheless, following intense negotiations, all of them were released except for the 20-year young Aramean, Saliba A., who was snatched in daylight out of his shop in Qamishli by the Asayesh. After the threat of ISIS, the current wish of the Arameans is for the nationalist Kurds to leave them, their organizations, schools, churches and their self-defense of Sootoro in peace. The Aramean-led Sootoro even includes Arabs, who are also being seized by the Asayesh and enrolled by the YPG.” Deteriorating conditions in “controlled” Kurdish areas Eddie and Qamishli resident Samer, a reliable local source, provided me with further insight into on-the-ground conditions and human rights violations they witnessed in Syria. These included soaring real-estate prices as wealthy Kurds buy up as much property that they can get their hands on, often paying the owners double the property’s value. Read the Amnesty International Report on Kurdish war crimes in northern Syria Kurds are able to offer more for these properties due to illegal control of Syrian industry – including the oil, transportation, financial sectors — imposing unlawful taxes, and charging fees for everyday things such as renewing licenses or carrying out normal business activities. If one wants to sell a certain good, they are directed to a Kurd who is in charge of collecting a tax on that particular good. They are doing this for almost everything and the local population is suffering as a result. Eddie went on to say: “ YPG, PYD, SDF, MSF, they are all the same. The SDF have aligned themselves with the Free Syrian Army who openly work side by side with Jabhat Al Nusra [Al Qaeda]. The Kurd[ish militias] have recruited ex-ISIS members.” I explained that when I had written about the connections between Daesh/ISIS and Kurdish militias, some people were shocked by the association, he responded: “It’s not shocking when you remember the Kurds were the ISIS of 1915, except they slaughtered Christians on a much larger scale then.” Much of Kurdish culture is borrowed from Assyrians, Armenians, and Aramean culture. In fact, much of the land in Eastern Turkey that the Kurds now claim once belonged to Armenians. It is hardly surprising, then, that the Kurds assisted in the Turkish genocide of Assyrians and the 1915 genocide of Armenians. Eddie told me that the taxes being charged are similar to what ISIS was forcing civilians to pay in areas it controlled. Samer stated that the prices of food, clothing, etc., are about 25 percent higher than in other governorates in the country, such as in Damascus. Electricity is scarce; people are using generators and have noticed a lot of cars without licence plates. He said it has become a “military society.” Education is also being negatively affected. Samer went on to say “guns are everywhere; people are buying guns like it’s food.” Property theft by Kurdish militias persists Eddie Gaboro Hanna told me: “They [the Kurdish militias] are still taking land and property from Christians by force and charging the Christian businesses a tax.” They are also destroying historical sites and claiming Assyrian artifacts to be Kurdish in origin. Historical revisionism is taking place, and the indigenous people are crying out for the world to stop these violations. An article by reporter Paul Antonopoulos, originally published by the website Fort Russ and republished by AINA, states: “ Reports of ethnic cleansing have been consistent in areas controlled by the SDF/YPG, with Arab villages entirely evacuated and re-inhabited by Kurdish settlers. In the most recent case, … Tabqa, a city made up primarily of Arab Sunnis and a small Christian Assyrian minority, has seen SDF tyranny continue since they captured the site from ISIS in May 2017. Houses that were emptied by people escaping the fighting and SDF rule have seen their houses confiscated and taken over by the SDF-controlled Tabqa Council. The Tabqa Council says that the newly vacant homes are to be given to the families of SDF fighters who have died in battle.” Kurdish independence has been falsely portrayed as an ethno-religious, democratic, feminist, revolutionary cause by mainstream and even some alternative media outlets. However, these media sources completely ignore facts and realities that contradict the romanticized version being publicly displayed. A point they often disregard is that the Kurds are not the original inhabitants of the lands that they now claim. Assyrians, Aramaeans, Armenians and other Christian minority groups are indigenous to the Levant. Aramaic, the language spoken by Arameans, dates back 3,000 years and is the language that Jesus Christ spoke. Many members of the Syriac Orthodox church still speak Aramaic and it’s an important component of their religious liturgy. http://www...tion-isis-like-tactics/237466/
pillz Member	Sat Feb 10 11:59:33 inb4 Forwyn defends Christian hating Kurds
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Feb 10 12:45:53 "A point they often disregard is that the Kurds are not the original inhabitants of the lands that they now claim." Sounds like the Palestinians.
Pillz Member	Sat Feb 10 13:34:43 Lrn2history Hot Rod. Jews decided to become a diaspora. For over a thousand years it was both religiously and culturally central to their group identity that they were effectively homeless. The desire for a Jewish homeland is relatively modern and deeply tied to anti Semitism. Additionally, yes, Palestinians have probably inhabited Israel and Palestine since before the Jews left. It isn't as though the entire region was jewish - its always been home to other religious and cultural groups. Groups that eventually came to adopt Islam and identify as Arab, in most cases, but note that Palestine continues to have a large Christian minority and many Palestinians diaspora are Christian, and the primary land holder in Jerusalem and other contested areas is the Greek Orthodox Church.
Forwyn Member	Sat Feb 10 15:18:19 "inb4 Forwyn defends Christian hating Kurds" I mean, it's a well-known fact that Assad has been one of the most minority-friendly rulers in the region in modern history. At the end of the day, most Kurds are still Muslims. They just tend to be a shade better than Turks or Iraqis.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Feb 10 15:28:13 Pillz, you might want to check out Exodus and Passover.
Pillz Member	Sat Feb 10 15:41:02 Jews were never in Egypt as depicted biblically. Jews did not even exist, because Judaism did not exist at the most likely time for exodus to take place (end of 1st intermediary period). And even then, the Hyksos / Pre-Jewish connection is not well established. Pretty sure Hyksos were said to have arrived from Libya and not Canaan, although still Semitic. I'd have to refresh on that part of Egyptian history. But exodus never happened, and the closest historical analogy is the expulsion of the Hyksos from Upper Egypt, who were foreign rulers of Upper Egypt following their invasion after the Old kingdom collapse. I mean, if we want to take this further, it's entirely possible that the Hyksos were proto-Jews who only settled Canaan in war like aggression following their military defeat Egypt. That'd explain away a lot of mid bronze age violence in Canaan and fit the rough biblical narrative. Also might explain their relative isolation in an otherwise religiously homogeneous region and period of heavy cross cultural and religious leaders exchange in the Eastern Mediterranean. But that's just speculation
Pillz Member	Sat Feb 10 15:46:30 Minus the word leaders there. And i will note the Stark lack of judaic artifacts at Ephesus, which, beginning from the earliest archeological finds, was the #1 most diversely worshipped temple anywhere at the time... But maybe that's just because they couldn't reconcile a female God with their monotheistic faith (Judaism would have actually manifested towards the end of the bronze age though, and Ephesus was pretty Greek by then so maybe foreign worship was stopped. Id have to review reports to see when non Greek votive offerings stopped)
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sat Feb 10 15:49:44 Many shades. You can judge how shitty a sunni population is by how many jihadist they manufacture. I mean even a couple of Iranians turkmens joined IS. They Kurds in Iraq were their most awful during the Saddam years. Dire straits produced dire faces. Some of the stories from my mother in law. Running with her kids (my wife) to Iran in the 90's from the impending onslaught, afraid of a repeat of the 80's. Ethnocentric Kurds are the most annoying, as with any ethnocentric people without a country tend to be :P Islam is a secondary characteristics and mostly cultural for Iraqi kurds these days. Diminishing to such a degree that it is a retreat for Iranians, specially during Nowruz, a holiday Kurds also celebrate. In Syria and Turkey, generally Kurds are godless infidels. I trust the Islamic State propaganda on this, they take very seriously their distinction between shia (rafidah) godless infidels and bad/misguided sunnis. The first two have no chance for repentance ad are executed. From my countless of hours watching Jihadist propaganda I think I can safely say, that almost all (not many) Kurdish jihadist have come from Iraq. Everyone loves the Kurds and want them on their side for every picnic party in the ME, until the party winds down and then they are total scumbags left fending for themselves again.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Feb 10 20:51:53 Thanks, Pillz that was interesting. Not sure I followed all of it, but it was interesting. It's been a long time since I read Michener and that is really pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the subject.
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