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Utopia Talk / Politics / Game of thrones:The dragon and the wolf
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Aug 27 12:05:03
After the draft (The great raping)

there will 1 hour 21 mins of plot holes, red shirts dying.

So the characters with the greatest plot armour are finally going to meet Jamie, Jon, and Danny in the great dragon pit. Tywin's cupbearer makes up with Tyrion's wife.

Why arn't black people allowed to use the Hyperloop?

Does the Night King actually have a plan?

Is Cersai going to be reasonble?

Will any major characters actually die?(my guess Littlefinger)

Where will Sam show up?

Is Danny really Henry VII? and Cersai Margeret of Anjou?






Pillz
Member
Sun Aug 27 15:53:43
Clegane Bowl happens, one or both die.

Littlefinger is gonna hold out until early-mid of next season, and probably get killed by Jon if he's still alive. If not then maybe Arya?

Pillz
Member
Sun Aug 27 15:55:58
Sansa reveals to the Lords of the Vale that the sickly kid is not Jon Aryns legitimate heir. She knows that doesn't she? Cause he can threaten to pull those forces or something.

Maybe that'd get him killed.
Cherub Cow
Member
Sun Aug 27 20:13:37
No Billah spoilers? Must not have been a hack leak this week ;p

..
[IBTY]: "red shirts dying"

This most likely :/
Though it would be huge if they killed Danny in this episode. Tyrion hyped up the possibility too, since he had that scene where he was like, "If you die, we're all lost. Everyone. Everything. :'("
Yessss. Dieeeee :D :D :D
Destabilized the region and put Cersei in total power so that we can step into the unknown! >:D >:D ;p

..
[IBTY]: "Tywin's cupbearer makes up with Tyrion's wife."

I still think that that Arya+Sansa relationship is too toxic to repair itself and that one of them needs to die for it to be resolved. Littlefinger would be under threat at the moment because Arya can wear his face in order to get Sansa to admit that she wants Jon's title and prospects.. but I think Littlefinger will be in control if he knows about Arya's Faceless Man powers.. so Royce and Glover may be more in trouble in this episode.

..
[IBTY]: "Where will Sam show up?"

Besides Winterfell? It would be neat if they slowed the pacing enough to put him on the road somewhere... and the writing made it look like he still doesn't know about his dad and brother, so maybe Lannister soldiers stop him and drop the news? Another pop star cameo? ;)

..
[Pillz]: "Sansa reveals to the Lords of the Vale that the sickly kid is not Jon Aryns legitimate heir."

Wow what? D: ... It didn't even occur to me that that could be Littlefinger's son. Makes sense if true.. but — outside of things like hair color or a sickly/weak demeanor — did they confirm that lineage in any way on the show?

..
[hood]: "Oh I have every confidence that Cersei is going to invoke a trial by combat (or something similar) in the next episode and call the mountain as her proxy."

I think it would be more organic than a formal match-up.. like, no "Who will fight for me?" moment but instead Cersei would be making her last stand, maybe the Hound is with a group of soldiers, in the fighting the Mountain kills Ser Beric (and maybe others), and the Hound remains to defeat his brother in order for anyone to get to Cersei.. but I wouldn't be so sure that the Hound would win that fight, because Cersei still needs that tragedy of being killed by her brother..

..
[The Children @ hood]: "ur opinions r no longer relevant as u have been proven a cuck."

The screechy child in that video was outright wrong in many places in addition to his theories being based on conjecture (like the map measuring based on the Wall's length). The comments pretty sufficiently tore his points apart..

..
One positive thing about the bad pacing decisions of a shorter season: it's really not clear how much could happen. They could keep flashing forward to conflict/kill moments, or they could stick with a single story, so things that might normally have to wait until mid- next season may happen quickly... adds to the unpredictable side of the show :)

Episode has started!! :D :D
..won't get to watch until it finishes and the streams go up.. blerg
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:01:58
Well, carcetti got got
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Aug 27 21:05:01
Jesus is he crying?!?
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:11:21
I think it is time for some incest
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Aug 27 21:18:43
Number one show of our generation. Shows Auntie-nephew incest while a dwarf watchs.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:18:43
Wtf is this dragon spewing?
obaminated
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:28:20
Littlefinger went out like a coward. Tyrion is upset he got friend zoned for the first time in his life.
hood
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:32:20
"Wtf is this dragon spewing?"

Cold flames.
------------------

So Jon Snow's big reveal was anything but. We already knew this.

Reek's fight was about the most pitiful thing ever. I didn't even care that he won. I'd have rather seen the captain fellow actually kill Reek and just end that plot. Yara can become slave Leia without the hope of a rescue from Luke.

Didn't expect the wall to fall like that; it was almost disappointing, but I guess that's my fault. Cersei's duplicity finally showed up. I will admit that they got me both times with her "lets make a deal" speeches. Didn't expect Jaime to abandon her. He can't go kingslaying now :(

The scene with littlefinger was cathartic, but he was a bit helpless. I would have expected him to have more of an out than getting Sansa and Arya to turn on each other. What happened to his mantra of expect everything? Surely he should have planned for the failure of his gambit.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Sun Aug 27 21:36:54
I'm thinking this was the Night King's entire plan. He saw the comet singling the birth of a dragon and started building his army and just waited until a dragon appeared north of the wall.

Billah
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:47:31
I havent watched it yet.

Anybody got some sweet spoilers?

Please, tell me everything.
hood
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:48:31
As to the pacing of the show this season:

I think the reason pacing is so poor this year is partly because of how condensed the story lines have become. We used to have:

Arya
Sansa
Bran
Jon
Cersei
Jaime
Tyrion
Boltons
Sands
Dany
The Hound
Brienne

and more that are less easy to recall.

Now, we essentially have 3 stories:

The North
The Crown
The Dragons

As such, they can't send someone off on a month long trek and have them disappear for 2 episodes; there simply isn't enough alternate stories to jump through while they allow a character to travel. You'll notice that the pacing of this episode didn't feel off; all of the actions of this episode were over the course of 1-2 days.
CrownRoyal
Member
Sun Aug 27 21:55:49
Wait till the final season, when they are going to try to tie all the loose ends and end the show. The crazy pace of this season is going to feel leisurely and unhurried.
Aeros
Member
Sun Aug 27 23:15:12
"The scene with littlefinger was cathartic, but he was a bit helpless. I would have expected him to have more of an out than getting Sansa and Arya to turn on each other. What happened to his mantra of expect everything? Surely he should have planned for the failure of his gambit."

But that's the point. Little Finger was Icarus. His whole "Chaos is a Ladder" speech. He climbed up from nothing, but even when he achieved great power he wanted to climb further, and further. He never really had an end goal. Just the taking of more power and achieving the unachievable sun. Lady Catelyn, and then Sansa.

And in the end, he got cast down. In total humiliation. By the very Sun he desired to reach.
Forwyn
Member
Sun Aug 27 23:55:20
Cried like a little bitch. Guess he wasn't fighting every battle everywhere.
hood
Member
Mon Aug 28 00:20:01
"Cried like a little bitch."

Well that was obviously a ploy. That it was the only ploy he had was disappointing.


@ aeros

I understand the allegory. What I object to is just how weak he was made to be at the end.
obaminated
Member
Mon Aug 28 00:25:37
That'll be something we discuss for a while. Was he crying because he realized he made his death nail mistake?

He finally picked a side.

Or was he crying because he thought Sansa would left him off the hook?

It could go either way.
obaminated
Member
Mon Aug 28 00:27:40
I think he was genuinely crying out of fear and pity for himself. He was never a warrior or a man to quietly accept his fate like Ned. I think when he realized his fate he panicked like the coward he always was.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Aug 28 00:33:00
He was Dunning-Kruger personified - the epitomized bullied nerd who comforts himself by imagining himself to be smarter than everyone else.

He spent more time delivering villain monologues about how smart and capable he was than showing it. Maximum cringe.
obaminated
Member
Mon Aug 28 01:11:32
I wouldn't call him a nerd. I would say he was a smart man who stayed a live as he said by "keeping everyone else guessing what he wanted"

His downfall was catching feelings and incorrectly assuming Sansa felt the same way.
Im better then you
2012 UP Football Champ
Mon Aug 28 01:44:45
Wait so was it LittleFinger who sent the catspaw to kill Bran? Cause that really doesn't make much sense since he was in Kings Landing and this was back when the writers gave a shit about time/distance.
Hrothgar
Member
Mon Aug 28 03:08:15
When that dragon took the ice harpoon, felt a bit like it hit me. Show has done a great job with those fictional beasts and making viewers somehow attached to them emotionally.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Aug 28 07:09:43
[Billah]: "I havent watched it yet. [/] Anybody got some sweet spoilers? [/] Please, tell me everything."

— The Danny&Cersei groups meet and the white walker is shown to Cersei&co.
— Cersei doesn't accept the alliance offer, leaving the North to its own devices
— In private, Tyrion tries to persuade Cersei to reconsider, but despite Tyrion's efforts Cersei has the Mountain cut Tyrion in half as revenge for their father
— Jaime wants to march north to help against the white walkers, but Cersei has the Mountain stab Jaime through his side for treason
— Littlefinger convinces Sansa to kill Arya; Arya is brought to the courtyard and Sansa carries out the sentence herself using Royce's broadsword
— Reek raids Euron's ship to try to save Yara, but Euron slices Yara's throat in front of Reek, and Reek jumps over board and ends up in a schooner with several other defeated and wounded Greyjoy soldiers
— Lady Catelyn re-appears as a servant of the Lord of Light, telling Jon that she has news of the Night King's plans to destroy the Wall: apparently he's been searching for an ancient horn that can break the Wall's spells
— Jon marches north with the Unsullied to stop the Night King, but the Golden Army is already waiting for him at the Neck so Jon's forces are defeated, Jon is wounded, and Danny rescues him with her dragon
— In the ending scene, at the Wall, the Night King blows a great horn, collapsing the Wall

Hope this helps! Copy and paste to Reddit, thx!!

..
[hood]: "So Jon Snow's big reveal was anything but. We already knew this."

The clarity of it may have been for audiences that can't function without those "Okay, so just in case you missed it..." moments, but also it was not 100% certain until Bran confirmed it — maybe 95% certain. We knew that Lyanna Stark was pregnant, that Robert was likely not the father ([Lyanna]: "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him"), that Rhaegar was accused of kidnapping and raping Lyanna, and that Rhaegar had posted his best soldiers as guards around Lyanna's child-rearing. Lots of evidence for Rhaegar. Even so, if Martin had wanted, there was room for a surprise, like that another important character had been involved with Lyanna (e.g., a friend of Rhaegar's), or that Robert really was the father but that Lyanna only hoped that the timing could mean Rhaegar, or something semi-wild like that. Surprise reveals wouldn't be out of the question in a story that plays with supposed certainties.

..
[hood]: "I would have expected him to have more of an out than getting Sansa and Arya to turn on each other."

What do you mean by "an out"? Like an escape from Arya's eventual revenge upon him or something? His plan wasn't really an out so much as a way to move towards the throne by eliminating rivals.

..
[hood]: "What happened to his mantra of expect everything? Surely he should have planned for the failure of his gambit."

He really did think that he had Sansa in his pocket, so he turned his focus away. Peeps really can't imagine *everything*.. at some point they have to think of what's most probable even if it risks exposure to the possible improbable. That's why Littlefinger strategically eliminated people that messed with his sense of probability.. it increased certainty. He'd talked Sansa out of killing him before at Mole's Town after she was the most recently hurt by his actions (Brienne was in the same position then that Arya was in this episode), so maybe he thought that his work on her behalf had gotten him on her good side. Seems he underestimated the Stark bond. I did too! I was totally wrong about Stark-Bowl. When Arya walked into the room with all the lords around I was remembering my prediction that this would be the only way that Sansa could defeat Arya (i.e., not one-on-one combat with Brienne but by swarm logic where the lords trap her in the open after treason charges).. but that possibility was the one that the story was showing via Littlefinger's expectations. Sansa flipped it by picking an earlier moment than expected for her to outgrow him — very cool surprise, and it looked like Arya was not aware of it until it happened so it was all Sansa's idea :D

..
[Aeros]: "Little Finger was Icarus. His whole "Chaos is a Ladder" speech. He climbed up from nothing, but even when he achieved great power he wanted to climb further, and further. He never really had an end goal. Just the taking of more power and achieving the unachievable sun."

Icarus might fit as a metaphor for Littlefinger's precarious rise to power (though sitting on the Iron Throne was a definite and stated end goal for Littlefinger), but Icarus and the sun would not quite be how climbing works particular to Littlefinger's chaos metaphor...

"Chaos" in that metaphor was referring to the truth laid bare — a world without lies/illusions such as the "noble lie" of "the thousand blades of Aegon's enemies". The act of climbing the ladder then wasn't just some status ascent, it was the recognition that uncovering the truth (chaos; the ladder) required constant movement/thought and the active discarding of illusions (i.e., a person constantly climbing/thinking in order to adapt to the changing nature of truth). Whereas..
• A person who stops climbing (stops searching for truth) would cling to temporary illusions (his example was Sansa wanting the illusion of a storybook marriage, disregarding the truth that Joffrey was a sadist and that Loras Tyrell was gay).
• A person who tried to keep climbing but failed (tried to navigate the truth but failed to recognize the entire truth) would fall (would be defeated; his example was Ros, who had gotten closer to the truth than a common prostitute but not as close to the truth as Littlefinger, who could thus out-maneuver her. In this episode, Littlefinger was Sansa's Ros).

So it's not about a destination at the top of the ladder (no dangerous "sun"), it's about keeping in motion and re-reconciling the truth constantly. And as it happens, a person who could better keep the truth in mind would be better placed to sell illusions to others or to provide truths selectively in order to provoke others to act. Littlefinger had previously sold Sansa illusions to keep power over her, but after he thought he won her over, he taught her how to navigate the ladder/truth/chaos, and as it turned out Sansa was better able to keep the truth in mind while Littlefinger settled on a rung that he had fooled himself into believing to be the truth (the lie he believed: that Sansa was loyal to him or might actually want to be with him eventually). Littlefinger made the mistake of having his own storybook illusion, and Sansa pulled that from underneath him. Then Bran, who via story God Mode knows the truth/chaos/ladder better than anyone south of the Wall, was able to provide specific details that Littlefinger would otherwise have reasonably expected to be insulated from exposure. So that's closer to the meaning of the ladder/chaos in the story: the closer a character is to the truth, the better chance that person has of navigating the world. Incidentally, it's also why the Night King has to have significant seer abilities in order to be a threat to Bran. Those two will be in a competition to know more than the other, and apparently Bran (and so also the NK) needs to have his focus directed or he won't find the right details.

..
[obaminated]: "Was he crying because he realized he made his death nail mistake? ... I think he was genuinely crying out of fear and pity for himself. He was never a warrior or a man to quietly accept his fate like Ned. I think when he realized his fate he panicked like the coward he always was. "

I agree! He knew that he'd lost control. Sansa had removed his backups, so he was standing in the open for once. He didn't start crying when Brienne could have executed him because he knew he could control that situation, but here he had nothing left (no Vale, no Lady of Winterfell).

..
[Forwyn]: "He was Dunning-Kruger personified - the epitomized bullied nerd who comforts himself by imagining himself to be smarter than everyone else ... He spent more time delivering villain monologues about how smart and capable he was than showing it."

That's just not true! He very apparently displayed that his monologues weren't just theoretical. In this episode Sansa even lists the big moments where he showed it (turning Lannister and Stark against each other, killing Lysa, arranging Jon Arryn's death, arranging Ned's downfall..). A Dunning-Kruger person would *think* that they could do all of that but wouldn't/couldn't deliver, but Littlefinger delivered. Sansa just beat him.

..
[IBTY]: "Wait so was it LittleFinger who sent the catspaw to kill Bran? Cause that really doesn't make much sense since he was in Kings Landing and this was back when the writers gave a shit about time/distance."

Littlefinger's role there was an established part of the show pretty early I think. And it's not at all difficult that Littlefinger could arrange an assassin while not be directly present.
MrPresident07
Member
Mon Aug 28 07:57:48
"I understand the allegory. What I object to is just how weak he was made to be at the end."

Agreed. About the only part I really disliked.
The Children
Member
Mon Aug 28 08:36:55
just another stupid episode.

they went to kingsland from east watch by the sea, met with cercei, then on there way back with the boat...

thats at least a week.

so nightking waited another week to attack the wall.
sigh

also littlefingers end was just stupid. if he had to go, then at least make it more dramatic.

this was just dumb. u wuld think the one who is the mastermind behind the war, wuld not meet its fate this soon...

but apparently its just random deaths now.
Rugian
Member
Mon Aug 28 08:42:28
Bran Stark is a degenerate fucking creep. Now that we know that he hasn't seen the entire past but still has to selectively view individual events, it puts his watching Sansa's Wedding Video in a whole new light.

But hey, fapping to your sister getting railed doggy style is par for the course for a show where Cersei is carrying her brother's kid and Jon Snow sold out his entire kingdom in exchange for getting to spend a night of passion with his aunt. Ten years from now, when progressives have moved on from trannies and intersexualism and incestuous sex is the trendy new SJW fad of the day, I'll know who to blame for normalizing the practice. GRRM, you're going to have some serious soul-searchjng to do then.

(That's assuming you don't eat yourself to death first, you disgusting fat fuck)

Littlefinger was rather useless this seadon. His entire plan relied on marrying Sansa; as soon as she told him no his character was left with nothing to do. For someone who had spent six seasons relentlessly plotting to crash Westeros with no survivors, it was disappointing to see him spend Season 7 languishing and sitting on his hands. The whole Arya plotline was just a distraction; killing her would have did little to advance his plans. Ideally he should have been executed by Jon at the end of Season 6 just after he told Sansa what he wanted. His sendoff scene was decent though.
obaminated
Member
Mon Aug 28 11:09:05
Yeah, it's not clear what bran has seen.
pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 12:34:10
Littlefinger's death went down exactly how it should have. Cornered and exposed.

Glad I was right about at least one sister not falling for his play.

Jaime is Azor Ahai!

obaminated
Member
Mon Aug 28 12:59:55
I appreciate this show for causing the western world and smile with genuine happiness at watching a nephew plow his aunt in the hopes of making a child.
obaminated
Member
Mon Aug 28 13:00:38
World to smile*
Pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 13:16:58
Jon & Jaime, seeing the error of their incestuous ways while they face the army of the dead, become gay together as Jaime fists Jon's fire proof asshole with his flaming golden hand.
hood
Member
Mon Aug 28 13:22:31
All this focus on incest...
Paramount
Member
Mon Aug 28 15:07:59
Dayum. That wall went down quick. In less than a minute. lol

Cersei broke off with her brother. Jon found love in his aunt.

Theon got his balls kicked. Except that he didn't.

Good episode.
Rugian
Member
Mon Aug 28 15:19:22
^approves of incest
The Children
Member
Mon Aug 28 16:09:34
littlefinger...his death was meaningless, stupid.

they also written him off the whole season. he barely had any role. even some random dohragi had more screentime than him...

one wuldve thought he wuld last untill last season when it unravels that he was behind it all.

come 2 think of it, varyss is kinda dumped aswell.

these guys r horrible filmin this show...
Pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 16:14:52
Varys is slated to die.

Littlefinger could have had a better death, with an actual reveal of his crimes than just Bran using his creep powers and an accusation by Sansa (which he admitted to immediately??).

But since he's a weak character whose always relied on guile and others dancing to his tune the pathetic, wailing death was always gonna be how he went out (even if there weren't an audience)
The Children
Member
Mon Aug 28 16:32:03
he weak coz show made him weak. they gave him no lines.

remember end of last season king of north chants and we saw close up of littlefinger scheming and everyone was like "oh crap"???

the fuck happened?

shitty writing happened.

he fuckin killed geoffrey with tyrel and nobody will fuckin know. he schemed all those things and nobody will fuckin know.

his death is another rush job, period.

but rejoice! we get 2 see aunt and nephew getting it on. a shitromance from the start. we r 2 believe they r deeply in love. coz show said so, bitches. thats why.

show has gone 2 shits. period.
Paramount
Member
Mon Aug 28 16:36:00
Someone will need to remake the last 2 or 3 seasons.
Pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 17:15:22
They didn't have any opportunities left to give him a full, drawn out death. Unless they tried at Kings Landing during this meeting, since the people he'd committed his crimes against were many and they were all over the place.

He fucked the Lords of the Vale, Sansa, the Starks, Lannisters. At least this way his chief crimes in the show were laid bare (turned the Tully sisters against each other, killed Jon Aryn, tried to have Bran killed, turned Starks against Lannisters, betrayed the Starks, betrayed Sansa, and now tried to turn the Stark sisters against each other).

Jeoffrey's murder was already the subject of Olena's death and Littlefinger's litany of crimes that contributed to the current state of affairs is so long that tbh its omission is pretty trivial. Tho Sansa may have had knowledge of his role and in that case could have spent the 30 seconds required to mention it... Although since it was an act against the Lannisters it wouldn't have borne any weight with the Vale/North lords and may have worked in his favor had it been revealed. So even then, makes perfect narrative sense to not mention it.

As for the JonxDanny, they put all of like 5 episodes into developing it... And I honestly didn't notice a single of moment of chemistry between their characters. It was just inevitable they'd fuck because they were single monarchs in Westros, and related which just left the audience feeling like they were witnessing a slow motion train wreck as it... 'progressed'(did it even?). I think the authors took advantage of that by not really developing it more.

And besides, it isn't like there was ever any chance they'd make it a good romance. Maybe if they'd approached it from a Star Wars angle whereby neither character, nor the audience, is aware of their relationship, but since fans have been predicting Jon's lineage for years and they outright showed it last season, and had the Gilly / Sam scene this season... Itd have been wildly inappropriate for them to spend more time building chemistry between them. And I mean it just seems like lazy writing for the sake of shock to have them hookup now, anyways, which it probably is (train wreck, again)

also Inb4 Danny births a shadow demon to kill the Night King or something..
Seb
Member
Mon Aug 28 17:50:00
Pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 17:53:28
That explains so much Seb.
Renzo Marquez
Member
Mon Aug 28 18:39:00
When Seb multiposts it's safe to assume his wife wouldn't let him watch her with Muhammad, Omar, and Saddam but he's listening through the door.
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Aug 28 22:01:51
[TC]: "so nightking waited another week to attack the wall.
sigh"

That is not necessarily true; that scene may have taken place at the same time as the other scenes in the episode. But, even if it is true that he waited a week, it would make sense if the Night King had other activities in the North that were happening while much of his force was at the ice lake. It would have taken time to assemble them all in one place for the crossing.

..
[TC]: "but apparently its just random deaths now."

Littlefinger's death was hardly random.

..
[Rugian]: "Ten years from now, when progressives have moved on from trannies and intersexualism and incestuous sex is the trendy new SJW fad of the day, I'll know who to blame for normalizing the practice."
[obaminated]: "I appreciate this show for causing the western world and smile with genuine happiness at watching a nephew plow his aunt in the hopes of making a child."

Lol. I'll have to hope that this was a joke because the assumptions were pretty bad. Like, this show has not outright advocated for incest as some progressive goal. Martin wrote incest into this story because it is a classical device and because it has a historical basis. Shakespeare played with tragic incest, as did Middle Ages, Renaissance, and Neoclassicism authors — mostly having drawn from the ancient Greek and Roman authors who portrayed tragic incest, and Martin has sampled heavily from those to make Game of Thrones.

The typical format is for two characters to have sex/children without knowing until it's too late (e.g., Oedipus' dramatic irony incest; and Jon and Danny), for two characters to knowingly commit incest as some kind of unholy alliance that the heroes must defeat (e.g., Mordred and Guinevere in some Arthur variations, or Canace and Macareus; and in GoT, Cersei and Jaime), or as an examination of a deviant culture of normalized incest (e.g., also Oedipus, a foreigner, or Herodotus' and others' critiques of Persian incest; and in GoT, the Dornish). Authors usually play with taboos to make people see how different incest laws/values produce different results. Oedipus couldn't live with the knowledge and gouged out his own eyes (just as Jon and Danny will probably flip out, maybe with one of them going by suicide, or Danny killing Jon in disgust, or just trying to cover up the origin of the pregnancy.. like by Danny quickly marrying Jorah?), Canace and Macareus loved each other in secret despite the laws but were eventually subjected to the normal anti-incest laws by Aeolus (Just as Jaime and Cersei's incest will probably have its reckoning), and the Persian incest was used as fuel for divide between Persians and the Greeks (just as the Dornish were outliers of the 7 kingdoms and failed to reconcile with the Lannisters despite being given the opportunity)... not to forget that the Targaryens went slowly insane and suffered deformities after generations of incest (not unlike real-life British royalty). Martin does not seem to be saying that incest is a good way forward, it's just a story-telling device used to show complicated histories, and even though audiences can see no problem with Cersei and Jaime or Jon and Danny, that may be because audiences know that these were actors portraying sex, not actual siblings/relatives having sex. If the show had cast actual families for the roles... then you'd see some heavy morality policing.

..
[Rugian]: "Littlefinger was rather useless this seadon. His entire plan relied on marrying Sansa; as soon as she told him no his character was left with nothing to do ... killing her would have did little to advance his plans."
[TC]: "littlefinger...his death was meaningless, stupid."

I'm really thinking that some people have been watching a different show or just do not pay attention. Littlefinger had a *lot* to do, and killing Arya would have been very useful to his successes. He stated that he wants to marry into the Stark bloodline, and he wants the Iron Throne. He continued to work towards that purpose during this season. If his plan had worked, Arya would be dead (no more competition from Stark siblings), Jon would be next, then Danny and Cersei, then victory. But, Bran told Littlefinger that Bran would not seek the lordship (so Littlefinger made the mistake of leaving Bran alive and skipped to Arya), and of course Sansa betrayed Littlefinger after prioritizing family over title. Littlefinger was finally going against people who could out-maneuver him. That does not mean that he was not maneuvering. So his death was *very* purposeful. The North was just solidified via the old family bonds. Sansa, Arya, and Bran have finally halted the damage that Littlefinger began in episode 1 of the series, which means that everyone can look north now.

..
[TC]: "he weak coz show made him weak. they gave him no lines."

Littlefinger was weak from season 1. He was one of the best thinkers, but he was never a fighter. Ned handled LF very easily outside LF's brothel in S1E3, and Littlefinger's childhood story was of losing a fight terribly to Ned's brother (we never did get to see the giant scar from that fight).

..
[pillz]: "And I honestly didn't notice a single of moment of chemistry between their characters."

You missed all of those scenes with chemistry, then? They had lots. All those scenes about building trust, about their similar tragedies, how they looked at each other, about how they began worrying about each other's safety, etc.? If you just mean the actors, then okay, but the writing was hefty in this area. And "it just seems like lazy writing for the sake of shock to have them hookup now"? For them to finally hook up after Danny rushed to his aid, after they both knew that they were in love with each other (both given separate scenes to this effect where they realized that it was no longer an idle attraction), after Danny saw Jon's scars and knew that he really had died for his people as she had toiled for hers (identifying with each other), after Jon professed his loyalty to Danny even when that truth would kill the alliance with Cersei, after Danny saw that Jon made that decision because he loves her and not necessarily because it was just some vow.. and finally, when they had a moment alone in a conflict-free area, it seemed like.. lazy writing?
Pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 22:13:46
Yes, the entire danny/Jon thing felt like lazy writing and there were other ways to tell the complicated story than having them fuck.

Jaime / Cersei do make sense especially when you consider Jeoffrey who was pretty evil - they're the villains and do 'villainous' things.

Danny/Jon just got a bunch of forced moments, in no time at all, and also engage in the same activity (activity that likely resulted in her fathers madness, which she isn't necessarily free of...).

They could have just had Jon's lineage revealed to him, and he could claim the iron throne. It's better than 'I love you, I'll bend the knee. And I love you so I'll fight a frozen Undead army'. Weak love plot to solve a complex problem and there's no possible reason it had to happen.
pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 23:01:28
Like, I haven't seen GoT until this season, so I don't know how well it has (or if it really has) handled romance before, but like, 'I will do whats best for my people' x2 & 'Woo he has pretty scares' / 'Aw she lost a dragon' doesn't really seem like good attempt at chemistry to me? They literally just met and are important Kings/Queens fighting multiple wars.... I would not expect that a love plot is even possible in their situation. Which is why the whole thing seems lazily done to give viewers the final train wreck moment when the characters realize what theyve done.

Because the viewers already know what has happened/will be discovered, and they've been watching the idiot characters stupidly run head first into it, it is IMO similar to the way Hannibal lays things out. It isn't unique to Hannibal but it is the shows entire premise, and I hate it there too. Although I won't accuse Hannibal of being lazy as a result.
chuck
Member
Mon Aug 28 23:14:03
No real complaints this week!

It's instructive to compare this week's time jumps against last week's. The time jumps last week pissed people off because they were hyper-relevant to the story. If Dany had been five minutes later flying from half a continent away after a raven flew the same distance after a guy ran a (ultra?)marathon in the snow, everybody would have been dead.

This week, we're all just asked to agree, "then everybody was on a boat for some period of time but we've decided not to show that because nothing happened." It doesn't matter if the meeting with Cersei is two weeks after the Battle of the Ice Lake or three weeks and so hardly anybody bitches about the time jumps because no individual threads of the story felt egregiously out of sync with other elements of the story. Huzzah!
Cherub Cow
Member
Mon Aug 28 23:34:47
[pillz]: "there were other ways to tell the complicated story than having them fuck."

It's a good thing that they told that story in so many other ways, then, with their eventual sex being a culmination moment that was hinted at seasons ago and brought more overtly to the screen within every scene that they shared together, even in their first scene together where they were arguing but still maintaining an undercurrent of instinctual attraction.

..
[pillz]: "Danny/Jon just got a bunch of forced moments, in no time at all"

I think it was more like 3 months of interactions shown across 5 episodes and about 14 scenes together, including..
— Their first argument in the Dragonstone throne room
— Their meeting on the Dragonstone steps, where on Tyrion's advice Danny dropped her pride and decided to take a chance with Jon's dragon glass plan
— Their meeting at the dragon glass mountain, where they realized that they had a shared history fighting the white walkers and that their unification was the only way they could defeat such a large threat (that unification itself having a tone that it would be more than just a strategic decision)
— Their meeting on the beach where Jon echoed Tyrion's sentiments about Danny being a different kind of leader (a sentiment fed further by Jon talking with Missandei and hearing how Missandei believes in Danny's vision)
— Danny arriving on the Dragonstone cliff with Drogon to find that Drogon was naturally friendly to Jon and Jon was naturally willing to reach out to Drogon (For Danny this was almost like having a cat that hates everyone except one's soul mate). Jorah then shows up and immediately recognizes that Jon is playing the role of the suitor and that Danny is receiving Jon well.
— In the Dragonstone strategy room, Jon agreeing to a raid beyond the Wall so that Danny's plan could be successful, there Danny finding that she's worried about Jon's safety even more than Jorah's, and Jorah seeing this
— On the beach while Jon and Jorah's team heads out, Danny seeing them off with fear and admiration in her eyes ([Danny with fondness]: "I've grown used to him"); Jorah looking back to find that Danny is looking at Jon, not him, and Tyrion looking back and forth between Jon and Danny, noticing the same thing
— In the Dragonstone strategy room, Danny trying to be angry with Jon to mask her growing attraction to him. Tyrion calling her out on it and also letting her know that Jon clearly feels the same. Danny hearing this news with gladness, clearly taking a moment to fantasize about the possibility of she and Jon being together
— Jon, at the moment that trouble falls upon them north of the Wall, calls to Danny for aid via a raven
— Danny, despite having been warned by Tyrion about being impulsive, rushes off against advice to save Jon moments after receiving the raven.
— North of the Wall, Danny clearly wants to save Jon most of all, and when she has to leave him, she hesitates almost to the point of her own death
— Back at the Wall, Danny stands in despair, hoping Jon will return against the odds. She has apparently waited for so long that Jorah insists that she be realistic instead of passionate. Her expression when Jon arrives is excited, pleased, and worried at once.
— On the ship, Danny confides not in any of her advisors but instead chooses to tell Jon about how heartbroken she is about her dragon. Despite grieving, she has to mentally check herself against being romantic right there on the spot while on the ship.
— Danny looking at Jon with admiration as he stood to address Cersei, and her shock and admiration when Jon professed his loyalty to Danny even if it cost them the alliance

..
[pillz]: "Weak love plot to solve a complex problem and there's no possible reason it had to happen."

The show elucidated so many reasons for it that I don't even know if it's worth contradicting your point... still, all the things I listed, plus..
• Danny and Tryion's stated imperative while in Meereen that Danny would have to forge alliances by marriage in Westeros (the reason that she ejected Daario before leaving)
• the fact that Jon was the best possible alliance, a fact boosted by Danny's strategic failures and Jon's growing army
• 6 seasons of history before this season which drew huge parallels between Danny and Jon as a boost to their compatibility; a list in itself, including their troubled youths, isolation from family, having to forge their own paths at the edges of the world, having to get people to believe in them by setting big examples rather than having respected titles (Jon a bastard, Danny a foreigner to Essos), both electing to stay in their domains for longer than seemed necessary to others (Jon at the Wall, Danny in Meereen) despite big imperatives pulling them to King's Landing (For Jon, Robb's war; for Danny, her early access to free ships and an army big enough to sack King's Landing), etc.
• The repetition of their 6 seasons of history as a recap within season 7 dialogue (e.g., their first throne room meeting where they both had their histories listed for the other, their respect for one another growing right there)
• Their unspoken Targaryen compatibility; the Oedipus/Electra Complex where people will have a sub- or un-conscious affinity to family, and without knowing of the relation will identify that affinity as sexual love

Really, the only reason I can think of that it *shouldn't* have happened is if Jon had gotten back to Winterfell in time for Bran to tell him his lineage. That was the big question going into this season (I think I posted this in one of the season 6 threads): would Jon find out in time? Their romantic possibilities were already so obvious by season 6, and season 7 dedicated so much time to their actual falling in love that the scene edits could probably be almost a full episode in length...

..
[pillz]: "Like, I haven't seen GoT until this season"

I wish I'd read this before writing the above. This explains everything. A lot of understanding the undertones and their glances at each other had to do with knowing their history and the "why"s behind their attractions.

..
[pillz]: "Because the viewers already know what has happened/will be discovered, and they've been watching the idiot characters stupidly run head first into it"

Yeah that's "dramatic irony". Writers use it often to allow the viewers to be ahead of the story specifically so that when the tragic stroke happens that the characters will continue with an act which makes sense from their limited perspectives but which the audience will have to suffer due to knowledge. For instance, Greek audiences knew the story of Oedipus Rex even before the play was cast, but it was still one of the most popular plays in its time. Audiences that didn't know the ending before seeing still find out quickly: the play itself reveals information to the audience way ahead of the characters through the prophet Tiresias in the opening scenes.

People knew that Danny and Jon would probably get together, and they knew that Bran needed to tell Jon, but within the story Bran doesn't know enough to tell Jon faster (no raven) and Jon and Danny only know that they love each other. It makes total and perfect sense for the characters based on their perspective knowledge, but the audience is left to cringe on their behalf. That's the effect that's intended: abject terror at an event that everyone knows will probably happen but which they hope against hope will not. Even when people re-watched Oedipus Rex they still hoped for a different ending, but then it would be a shit story. One thing that heavily defines tragedy is that people don't know enough soon enough.
Forwyn
Member
Mon Aug 28 23:42:19
"In this episode Sansa even lists the big moments where he showed it (turning Lannister and Stark against each other, killing Lysa, arranging Jon Arryn's death, arranging Ned's downfall)"

These were all A-B plots, most of them made simple by the crutch he was given by Lysa's jealousy and infatuation. Ned - Ned was just a matter of lying to an honorable man. Either way, Littlefinger controlled the City Watch - it was just a choice as to which would garner the greater reward.*

Killing Lysa is also a poor example, in my opinion. He very nearly was laid bare by the Vale lords - he relied entirely on the testimony of a teenager, who could flip at any time - she later did.

*I would be more interested in seeing his climb to Master of Coin, as it might show some of his more impressive maneuvers.

As it stands, I can't hear his, "fight every battle, everywhere" without picturing him crying on the floor.
pillz
Member
Mon Aug 28 23:47:23
Meh, I do not appreciate most forms or instances of dramatic irony I guess.
McKobb
Member
Mon Aug 28 23:52:19
It was so good I had to see it Ægon!
hood
Member
Tue Aug 29 00:01:07
"Ned - Ned was just a matter of lying to an honorable man. Either way, Littlefinger controlled the City Watch - it was just a choice as to which would garner the greater reward.*"

But littlefinger was why Jon Arryn died. He maneuvered Ned to the capitol. He maneuvered Ned to confront the Lannisters. He set the war of the 5 kings in motion. You're looking into all of the a-b plots because they're the simple ones to see. What wasn't easy was that littlefinger manipulated westeros into the turmoil it was in for the first 4 seasons.
Asgard
Member
Tue Aug 29 00:46:30
Boring episode. Plastic feeling like using a tight condom. Predictable.
Also it proves the writers did not have a clue what to do with LittleFinger so they just had him make hanging in there doing irrational and stupid meddling just to be executed. Speaking of which, Sansa passed the sentence and should have swing the ssword herself.
Asgard
Member
Tue Aug 29 00:48:17
But Hood, LittleFinger must had a bigger plan and percise goals in GRRM's mind. Here though he had nothing in mind, just random chaos.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 00:59:05
[hood]: "What wasn't easy was that littlefinger manipulated westeros into the turmoil it was in for the first 4 seasons. "

Exactly. The entire Game of Thrones story would not have been possible without Littlefinger's successes. The story starts only because he has convinced Lysa to murder Jon Arryn (she did it only because he asked her; she confessed to this when he arrived at the Vale) — without that, Cersei would have just waited for Robert to die, the Starks would have stayed in Winterfell, no one would have questioned the Lannister lineage, etc.. He was like Aaron in Titus Andronicus; behind the scenes at every turn.

If you rewatch the show and pay close attention to Littlefinger you see all sorts of little bonus moments too. Like in S1E5 Ned was about to leave the capital safely with his entire household after being fired by Robert, but Littlefinger convinced Ned to check out one of Robert's bastards at his brothel. This bastard had zero importance. Ned already knew about Robert's bastards (such as the most important one: Gendry), so an infant held no extra importance to him. Littlefinger arranged this distraction because he knew that if Ned were delayed until the afternoon that Jaime would return to attack or kill Ned for ransom collateral or vengeance (Tyrion had just been arrested by Catelyn). Then of course with Ned trapped in the capital Littlefinger was able to get him killed (Littlefinger didn't seem surprised when Joffrey changed his mind to death instead of exiling Ned to the Night's Watch — either way, Catelyn would be made available).

..
[Forwyn]: "As it stands, I can't hear his, 'fight every battle, everywhere' without picturing him crying on the floor."

Your failing then, I suppose. Littlefinger being a total coward or useless in a fight does not undo the fact that he successfully infiltrated and controlled the major actions of the 7 Kingdoms.

..
[hood]: "I think the reason pacing is so poor this year is partly because of how condensed the story lines have become."

That's a good point! I wonder how "teleporty" the show would look in season 1 if it were edited to only include the stories of Jon, Danny, Sansa, and Cersei with little or no time dedicated to the houses that fell in order to put them in the spotlight. It would probably look about the same as season 7. I also wonder if it would make fans happier if random B-roll of LOTR walking were spliced between these scenes ;p
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 00:59:57
[Asgard]: "Here though he had nothing in mind, just random chaos."

Outright false. His goal was Sansa and the Iron Throne.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 01:06:48
[CC]: "no one would have questioned the Lannister lineage"

Correction: Jaime and Cersei probably would have been exposed by Jon Arryn and executed by Robert.
The Children
Member
Tue Aug 29 01:43:19
alot of it just excuses.

this is a man behind the wars in westeros, countless betrayals and scheming...

and he dies in s7 without half of it being exposed...

yea he is a physically weak character, but that aint what i meant. i meant he was so fukin useless in s7, u barely even saw him. some random droghati dude had more screentime than he did for instance dude dude chasing bron who got speared by a big scorpion...

think about it. or the random wildling walkin in front of the group that got eaten by a dead bear...

who are these people? some random extra...had more screentime than the mastermind behind the wars!!!!

confession looked extremely forced. year they exposed him for betrayin ned stark, but whats the evidence. some random girls claims and a weelchair freak who barely speaks now and who claims 2 see everything now...

its forced. for instance tyrion trial lasted a good portion of season 4. here we have littlefingers trial...3 min.

the entire show sucks now.
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 02:32:20
[TC]: "some random droghati dude had more screentime than he did for instance dude dude chasing bron who got speared by a big scorpion ... or the random wildling walkin in front of the group that got eaten by a dead bear ... some random extra...had more screentime than the mastermind behind the wars!!!!"

That's demonstrably inaccurate (Littlefinger had about 8 scenes this season with major plays in about 6 of them), so do you mean that it *feels* like he didn't have *enough* screen time? I might agree with that. I've said it before, but I think HBO should have paid for a full 10 episodes by recasting major characters with their stunt doubles ;)

..
[TC]: "its forced. for instance tyrion trial lasted a good portion of season 4. here we have littlefingers trial...3 min."

Hardly the same kind of trial. A better comparison would be Janos Slynt's treason trial. How fast was that? 30 seconds? If it wasn't a matter of position then it was a matter of evidence. With Tyrion there was no direct evidence so they had to establish/fabricate some, but with Janos and Littlefinger it was clear. While the Northern lords may not have been convinced of Bran's seer abilities, they did seem to accept the larger body of evidence against Littlefinger, and Littlefinger's inability to answer the questions with direct refutations would be seen as guilt to Northerners who value clear speech. It also looks bad for Littlefinger that no one would stand with him. Littlefinger might have requested trial by combat, but without the Vale or Sansa he had no one to stand for him.
The Children
Member
Tue Aug 29 04:28:56
lol comparin littlefinger to a little weasel like janos?

littlefinger is the mastermind, he needed 2 be exposed to all on a grand stage with a big trial for all 2 see...

not a 3 min cutscene

that dohragi that chased bron had more screentime than littlefinger.

Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 05:34:05
[TC]: "that dohragi that chased bron had more screentime than littlefinger."

Again, that's demonstrably inaccurate. Even clocking the actual death scenes (start of their first on-screen moment in that scene to their last), Littlefinger's final scene was 5 minutes, whereas that Dothraki soldier had 2 minutes. The Dothraki soldier also only appears for about 10 or 15 seconds total in that entire 2 minutes, whereas Littlefinger was present and/or speaking for about 4:30 minutes.

..
[TC]: "lol comparin littlefinger to a little weasel like janos?"

A comparison based on the nature of their crimes (treason), yes. It's not about giving a big character a big theatrical extended-cut death scene, it's about showing how punishment would be applied for the crime. Janos was clearly guilty and executed within about a minute. Similarly Littlefinger plead his case but was found clearly guilty and executed quickly. For Tyrion there could be no quick execution because he admitted nothing of evidence to the charges. Then Tyrion's champion lost but at the end of a trial that was complete with all of Tywin's insistences on the royal bureaucratic flourishes of King's Landing, thus his sentence was not immediate but delayed for the following morning.

And as for that theatricality, this show has prided itself on showing that death is not some BS theatrical glory game. Main characters will die suddenly and quickly. Catelyn's throat was slashed after about 30 seconds of panicked screen time. Were people upset that she couldn't relate to everyone her entire life story before dying for the clarity of posterity? No. People don't get to resolve every issue of their lives before dying. That's what made Catelyn and Littlefinger's deaths all the more tragic, painful, or frightening: if they had had more time, they might have been able to calm everyone, put their weapons down, and talked their way out of it somehow, but death was right there in front of them.

And think of all the other quick deaths. Did Ned get to recant after being sentenced? Did he get to say, "No, actually I lied just now and Joffrey is illegitimate"? No. He had a 1-minute speech and then Joffrey had him executed. Stannis? 30 seconds maybe: "Go on, do your duty". Mance Rayder? A little speech and then burned. Old Mormont? Stabbed in the back. This is not a show where heroes get to die after some dramatic aristeia. Death is usually shocking and quick.
The Children
Member
Tue Aug 29 05:56:21
2 random dohragis had more screentime than the mastermind of the war then... same thing.

littlefinger was the mastermind. he wasnt jonas, he wasnt some mutaneer that cut mormonts throat...he was the mastermind!!!

some nightwatch mutaneer drinking from the skull of mormont had more screentime than littlefinger.

some fat kid travellin with arya and gendry had more screentime than littlefinger in the whole of season 7.

the writing sucks. we r to believe jon and denearys is true luv...they barely know eachother lol.

u can make all kinds of fancy calculations how its "3 months" and all, in reality, they barely had lines together throughout the whole s7 lol

CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Aug 29 06:14:03
Would a regular dragon fire destroy the Wall? Or does it have to be this blueish ice fire, from the zombie dragon?
jergul
large member
Tue Aug 29 06:18:55
The thermodynamics don't really work for me in that scene.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Aug 29 06:19:52
I tried to find the answer for this in numerous 'explainer' articles, but nothing so far.
CrownRoyal
Member
Tue Aug 29 08:02:23
Ok, I got it now. Apparently blue fire > regular fire, therefore Viserion now pwns Drogon and the other one

http://www...iserion-game-of-thrones-finale
The Children
Member
Tue Aug 29 09:18:01
think regular fire is good enough 2 take down the wall.

took gendry one afternoon to get back from the lake to the castle by the sea...

took nightking on a dragon a full week or two...i thought a dragon is 100mph.

other things to do? like they were sitting around a lake doing jackshit and that was good enough 4 them, apparently no other stuff to attend to?

what important businzess do dead people have anyway...

Paramount
Member
Tue Aug 29 12:17:45
"think regular fire is good enough 2 take down the wall."

Yeah, heat melts ice.

But where was the night watch when the dragon came? There was only like less than a dozen of them on the wall. Aren't they supposed to keep watch? Doesn't the night watch have archers or spears that they could have attack the dragon with?

Man, the night watch was useless. A fking joke.

I thought they had made dragon glass weapons. Dragon glass arrows? Dragon glass spears? Nope.
McKobb
Member
Tue Aug 29 13:09:15
http://youtu.be/IApUK_eu3Ek

Click, boom, done
Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 16:19:38
[TC]: "littlefinger was the mastermind. he wasnt jonas, he wasnt some mutaneer that cut mormonts throat...he was the mastermind!!!"

Again, you seem to be expecting a higher level of theatrical denouement just because *we* know how involved Littlefinger was in the story. That was never something that the show hinted would be possible, preferring as it did realism instead. Sansa didn't need to list LF's every accomplishment, just the ones that she knew would get him executed. Similarly the Cleganes may not get a true arena fight; despite all of the hype, their deaths may be short and simple. That would likely be true even if it was a 10-episode season. 10 episodes would just give them more screen time before dying.

..
[TC]: "some nightwatch mutaneer drinking from the skull of mormont had more screentime than littlefinger.
some fat kid travellin with arya and gendry had more screentime than littlefinger in the whole of season 7."

More demonstrably inaccurate statements...

..
[TC]: "they barely had lines together throughout the whole s7 lol"

Yeah, sure, except for the 14 scenes that they had together which were all quite lengthy, they "barely had lines together".

Seems that none/few of your criticisms have any validity. You've based many of your complaints on faulty assumptions (like the time lapse between scenes or assumed distances), and you've taken your inattentiveness while watching the show as an excuse to hate on the writers for plot reveals. That's the problem with binge-watching a show that is meant to be digested more carefully; you miss important details and fail to understand the story. This isn't a Marvel show where you can space out and then have a character explain everything you missed. In GoT, big details get revealed in quiet conversations.

..
[Paramount]: "Man, the night watch was useless. A fking joke."

Pretty sure that if you were expecting to be attacked by ground troops at a post that was guarded by a few hundred wildlings and a few dozen regular Night's Watch people, you'd be pretty fucking freaked out if a dragon was flying towards you, melting your positions out from under you while an army of 100k foot soldiers stood at the treeline out of range. Do you stay on the Wall to shoot an arrow at a giant fucking dragon while the ground disintegrates from under you, do you shoot an arrow at a soldier that's just waiting in the distance, or do you panic and run? Tormund and Beric would probably be the best at battle psychology, yet they chose to run. And for what kind of effect would you hope from a dragon glass arrow shot at an undead dragon? If steel-tipped arrows didn't pierce Drogon's scales, would a dragon-glass arrow pierce Viserion's scales? No, probably not. And Cersei was the only one who had any motive to build scorpions for dragon-killing. The Night's Watch had no clue that a dragon would be their enemy much less that they'd need to have dragon-glass-tipped scorpion bolts. The Night King just brought a bazooka to a popsicle stick fight.
The Children
Member
Tue Aug 29 16:46:53
sounds like more excuses.

they culdve had 400 scenes...theres no fuckin click between them. they can fake it but everyone knows its forced.

they didnt had 400 scenes. they barely had any lines, which makes it even more glaringly possible.

some doghragi had more screentime than littlefinger, fuckin scheming littlefinger the mastermind of the war, character since day one.
even if exaggerated a bit, how does a random extra get almost the same amount of time as the mastermind of the war.

show sucks, writing sucks, characters sucks.

this is just another stannis. they fuckin killed off stannis in the dumbest way possible. now they done the same 2 littlefinger.

Cherub Cow
Member
Tue Aug 29 20:11:06
[TC]: "they culdve had 400 scenes...theres no fuckin click between them. they can fake it but everyone knows its forced."

If we ignore the rest of your post (which yet again, is factually incorrect / demonstrably inaccurate given that they had 14 scenes together, looked at each other with googly eyes for most of it, stole moments alone together, and gradually fell in love via script and directorial framing), then this would be a more legit complaint because it means you think that Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke did not have on-screen chemistry specifically via their performance abilities. That's a little different from pretending that the show didn't produce any of those moments, since factually it did.

This might be relevant:
"In a recent interview with The New York Times, director Alan Taylor noted that avid fans shouldn't have been surprised by the development of Jon and Dany's now-romantic storyline" ( http://www...arrington-kiss-in-2012-w500237 ).
The Children
Member
Wed Aug 30 01:28:40
u must be da only one who saw googly eyes between them then.

everyone else just saw awkwardness and pretend scenes where they pretend 2 be deeply in luv and we are told they r deeply in luv coz...coz coz they say so!!!

noone is buyin that shit

hood
Member
Wed Aug 30 07:42:56
Cc, why do you keep arguing with tc? He's quite literally a man child who can't keep a job in the doldrums of the service industry because of a percecution complex. His opinion is worthless and he clearly lacks the ability to comprehend the subject matter or articulate his interpretation of it.
Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Aug 30 07:57:05
Yeah :/ ... I was getting obsessive about the show so my interest was out-weighing my normal limits of "I'm being trolled so I should stop responding" thoughts. Not anymore! :D
hood
Member
Wed Aug 30 08:20:04
One thing I will note about the writing this season though...

There were some lines that were just completely out of character for the show. Lines that were fairly modernized and sort of threw me. I know Jon Snow had one or two of these lines, and Jaime did as well. I'm not sure if it's because the writers have had to improvise instead of being able to fall back on source material or if it was due to poor QA or even just lazy/hasty writing. But there were instances of non-medieval phrases being used and it clashed in a bad way.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Aug 30 08:26:33

You guys talk about that show like a bunch of old ladies in a sewing circle talking about their favorite soap operas.

You guys do realize it isn't real, don't you?

The Children
Member
Wed Aug 30 08:42:10
hood = cuck

proven time and time again. ur opinion does not matter cuck.

bottomline is this season 7 is bullshit.
they butchered the story and some of the characters ends coz they r cucks writing for other cucks.

Cherub Cow
Member
Wed Aug 30 15:20:46
[HR]: "You guys talk about that show like a bunch of old ladies in a sewing circle talking about their favorite soap operas."

Is this angst because no one would watch "The Last Ship" and talk about it with you? ;p
..
[HR]: "You guys do realize it isn't real, don't you?"

Umm, duhh! We know that the scenes are reenactments of real stories, just like "Unsolved Mysteries".
hood
Member
Wed Aug 30 15:23:33
Wait HR. SOAP OPERAS AREN'T REAL?

:(((((((((((((((((((((((
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Aug 30 16:13:56
http://var...n-finale-cut-scene-1202541941/


One of the more retarded occurrences of this season has now been explained, at least. You know how the scenes of Arya and Sansa hatefully arguing alone in the room made zero sense? This was all a ruse to fool Littlefinger after all, why would they keep the charade even when they were alone? Well, apparently the hatred and argument were real, only afterwards Sansa realized that Bran is capable of looking in the past and consulted him, thus discovering the truth about Petyr. Only we didn't know that because the scene got cut out
Rugian
Member
Wed Aug 30 16:20:15
Don't take it personally HR, it's a generational thing. The Last Ship could have been the greatest show in human history, but the millenials that predominate on this board would disembowel themselves before consenting to watching anything on basic cable (sports and Its Always Sunny being lone exceptions). If it doesn't cost $15 a month to watch, we're not interested.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Aug 30 16:22:15

CC, you guys are missing a great series.

Season four opened where they were in the middle o a gun battle.


Seriously, I hope they run your show on free TV eventually and I'm still alive to enjoy it. It sounds really good.



hood
Member
Wed Aug 30 16:59:54
"the millenials that predominate on this board would disembowel themselves before consenting to watching anything on basic cable (sports and Its Always Sunny being lone exceptions). If it doesn't cost $15 a month to watch, we're not interested."

Basic cable costs more than $15/month these days.
CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Aug 30 17:01:27
millenials, smellenials. I'm generation X and I aint watching network lamefest, no idea what Rugian is about
Seb
Member
Wed Aug 30 17:40:01
CR:

I assumed that happened - bran/sansa. Some of the charges she laid could only have come from bran iirc and sansa Arya reconciliation showed they really had been at daggers drawn (Literally). Bran was the obvious catalyst for her to resolve to take out Littlefinger. Otherwise, she has no reason not to either get rid of Arya or sit on the fence.

CrownRoyal
Member
Wed Aug 30 19:00:03
"I assumed that happened - bran/sansa. "

Well, yeah. That's all that was left for us this season. To assume. Because otherwise things did not make sense very often. But now I'm thinking, maybe it was not the writers intention to be retarded. Maybe they shot well thought out episodes, where things were explained and made sense, but it just didn't survive the editors cuts? Maybe they just had a given time, like 10 hours, and had to fit it all in? Like, when Jon travelled with implausible speed to Dragonstone, maybe there were another couple of episodes in between that got cut, filled with wondrous adventures, and taking a few months? I am assuming it, at least
The Children
Member
Thu Aug 31 01:20:18
we also gotta assume stuff like the magical luv between the wolf and the dragoness, that it really wasnt just a few days but a few months.
and that stuff like tyrion entering kings landing wuld be able 2 find bron asap and convince him 2 bring jamie to the dungeons for a spar...

also assuming the night king had other bizness he had 2 attend to other than blowing up the wall, maybe they prepapred a feast and a partee for him, for finally leavin ghte frozen north...a farewell partee or something.

maybe we just gotta assume highgarden fought bravely with whatever soldiers they had left. surely even then a siege wuldnt last several hours lol but we just gotta assume the battle took many days.

also just assume baelon greyjoy can do all these wondrous things with big giant ships that they made in days?


Paramount
Member
Thu Aug 31 06:39:26
It will turn out that when Bran was pushed out of da window, he became unconcious and ha just been dreaming everything we have seen. So in the final episode Bran will wake up and his family will celebrare it with a cake and some coffee.
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Aug 31 18:18:03
[Paramount]: "So in the final episode Bran will wake up and his family will celebrare it with a cake and some coffee."

Like dis?
(set to right time; ending of Bruce Lee parody portion of "Kentuck Fried Movie".. unfortunately zoomed in to avoid copyright claims :/ ..)
http://youtu.be/YcAI3b1tPvA?t=46m12s

I thought the whole Game of Thrones universe was supposed to exist within the eyeball of a giant, and that that's why the opening credits map is curved :p
pillz
Member
Thu Aug 31 18:38:54
Bran is the Night King, as well as all famous Brandons, and he is trapped in an eternal struggle against himself (original First Man Bran vs. Post-Ritual Night King Bran) but in actuality the Night King has just been setting up a conquest of Westros + Essos by giving himself to consolidate White Walkers and let the Wilding population grow for wights and the Wall offered protection from Men while he did all this... Then the entire War of Five Kings was actually instigated by Bran who intentionally had himself crippled.
Cherub Cow
Member
Thu Aug 31 22:01:58
Meh.
:p

Don't usually like GoT memes, but this was okay:
http://imgur.com/gallery/k1Obk
pillz
Member
Fri Sep 01 01:13:44
Oh, since nobody in Cersei's camp knows, could Arya impersonate Littlefinger?

Not enough time left for scenes like that I guess.
Pillz
Member
Fri Sep 01 13:41:43
Actor who plays Bran shared a video of himself testing a 'turn yourself into the night king' app.

Either this is a joke at folks that believe that theory or foreshadowing
Paramount
Member
Mon Sep 04 14:43:08
I was looking forward to another episode of GoT today, but there was no new episode.

Was The Dragon and the Wolf the last episode of season 7? I thought it was going to be 8 episodes?
Pillz
Member
Mon Sep 04 14:47:35
Last episode.

Next season is only 6 episodes I think? So probably not much screen time for intrigue plots and stuff.
Paramount
Member
Mon Sep 04 14:54:49
So we have to wait one year for only 6 new episodes. Great :)
Paramount
Member
Mon Sep 04 14:56:26
What if I die in 6 months. I will never get to see how GoT ends.
Pillz
Member
Mon Sep 04 15:29:08
Probably more than a year. I think it airs in the fall
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