Utopia Talk / Politics / Unfit

chuck Member	Sat Aug 19 13:16:33 After Charlottesville Donald Trump has no grasp of what it means to be president U-turns, self-regard and equivocation are not what it takes Print edition | Leaders Aug 19th 2017 DEFENDERS of President Donald Trump offer two arguments in his favour—that he is a businessman who will curb the excesses of the state; and that he will help America stand tall again by demolishing the politically correct taboos of left-leaning, establishment elites. From the start, these arguments looked like wishful thinking. After Mr Trump’s press conference in New York on August 15th they lie in ruins. The unscripted remarks were his third attempt to deal with violent clashes in Charlottesville, Virginia, over the weekend (see article). In them the president stepped back from Monday’s—scripted—condemnation of the white supremacists who had marched to protest against the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee, a Confederate general, and fought with counter-demonstrators, including some from the left. In New York, as his new chief of staff looked on dejected, Mr Trump let rip, stressing once again that there was blame “on both sides”. He left no doubt which of those sides lies closer to his heart. Mr Trump is not a white supremacist. He repeated his criticism of neo-Nazis and spoke out against the murder of Heather Heyer (see our Obituary). Even so, his unsteady response contains a terrible message for Americans. Far from being the saviour of the Republic, their president is politically inept, morally barren and temperamentally unfit for office. Self-harm Start with the ineptness. In last year’s presidential election Mr Trump campaigned against the political class to devastating effect. Yet this week he has bungled the simplest of political tests: finding a way to condemn Nazis. Having equivocated at his first press conference on Saturday, Mr Trump said what was needed on Monday and then undid all his good work on Tuesday—briefly uniting Fox News and Mother Jones in their criticism, surely a first. As business leaders started to resign en masse from his advisory panels (see article), the White House disbanded them. Mr Trump did, however, earn the endorsement of David Duke, a former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The extreme right will stage more protests across America. Mr Trump has complicated the task of containing their marches and keeping the peace. The harm will spill over into the rest of his agenda, too. His latest press conference was supposed to be about his plans to improve America’s infrastructure, which will require the support of Democrats. He needlessly set back those efforts, as he has so often in the past. “Infrastructure week” in June was drowned out by an investigation into Russian meddling in the election—an investigation Mr Trump helped bring about by firing the director of the FBI in a fit of pique. Likewise, repealing Obamacare collapsed partly because he lacked the knowledge and charisma to win over rebel Republicans. He reacted to that setback by belittling the leader of the Senate Republicans, whose help he needs to pass legislation. So much for getting things done. Mr Trump’s inept politics stem from a moral failure. Some counter-demonstrators were indeed violent, and Mr Trump could have included harsh words against them somewhere in his remarks. But to equate the protest and the counter-protest reveals his shallowness. Video footage shows marchers carrying fascist banners, waving torches, brandishing sticks and shields, chanting “Jews will not replace us”. Footage of the counter-demonstration mostly shows average citizens shouting down their opponents. And they were right to do so: white supremacists and neo-Nazis yearn for a society based on race, which America fought a world war to prevent. Mr Trump’s seemingly heartfelt defence of those marching to defend Confederate statues spoke to the degree to which white grievance and angry, sour nostalgia is part of his world view. At the root of it all is Mr Trump’s temperament. In difficult times a president has a duty to unite the nation. Mr Trump tried in Monday’s press conference, but could not sustain the effort for even 24 hours because he cannot get beyond himself. A president needs to rise above the point-scoring and to act in the national interest. Mr Trump cannot see beyond the latest slight. Instead of grasping that his job is to honour the office he inherited, Mr Trump is bothered only about honouring himself and taking credit for his supposed achievements. Presidents have come in many forms and still commanded the office. Ronald Reagan had a moral compass and the self-knowledge to delegate political tactics. LBJ was a difficult man but had the skill to accomplish much that was good. Mr Trump has neither skill nor self-knowledge, and this week showed that he does not have the character to change. This is a dangerous moment. America is cleft in two. After threatening nuclear war with North Korea, musing about invading Venezuela and equivocating over Charlottesville, Mr Trump still has the support of four-fifths of Republican voters. Such popularity makes it all the harder for the country to unite. This leads to the question of how Republicans in public life should treat Mr Trump. Those in the administration face a hard choice. Some will feel tempted to resign. But his advisers, particularly the three generals sitting at the top of the Pentagon, the National Security Council and as Mr Trump’s chief of staff, are better placed than anyone to curb the worst instincts of their commander-in-chief. An Oval Office-shaped hole For Republicans in Congress the choice should be clearer. Many held their noses and backed Mr Trump because they thought he would advance their agenda. That deal has not paid off. Mr Trump is not a Republican, but the solo star of his own drama. By tying their fate to his, they are harming their country and their party. His boorish attempts at plain speaking serve only to poison national life. Any gains from economic reform—and the booming stockmarket and low unemployment owe more to the global economy, tech firms and dollar weakness than to him—will come at an unacceptable price. Republicans can curb Mr Trump if they choose to. Rather than indulging his outrages in the hope that something good will come of it, they must condemn them. The best of them did so this week. Others should follow.
chuck Member	Sat Aug 19 13:17:21 http://www...ald-trump-has-no-grasp-what-it
werewolf dictator Member	Sat Aug 19 13:56:23 the economist.. so chuck is either foreign agent or useful idiot of foreigners
yankeessuck123 Member	Sat Aug 19 13:59:48 Hot Rod will be along presently to earnestly gripe about how nobody can see that Trump is really just trying to do what's best for the country.
chuck Member	Sat Aug 19 15:03:07 Foreign depends on your perspective, doesn't it werewolf?
hood Member	Sat Aug 19 15:07:56 It's funny to see Putin's fluffer accuse someone of being foreign.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Sat Aug 19 15:42:13 chuck - stressing once again that there was blame “on both sides”. He left no doubt which of those sides lies closer to his heart. Did you watch the video? I did, and I saw two sides wearing body armor, helmets, and wielding clubs including baseball bats. I don't think those that 'represented' the left found their equipment just laying around in the park. The left brought that stuff with them too. To me, I call that premeditation. The same goes for the Nazis who brought the same kind of equipment with them. Ergo, how can you not put ***SOME*** of the blame on them? Trump is right, both sides share the blame. If you don't agree and blame only Trump then you are just as guilty as one of the left that swung a club.
Cold Rod Member	Sat Aug 19 16:39:24 No.
werewolf dictator Member	Sat Aug 19 23:12:38 trump condemned nazis repeatedly meanwhile it was obama who voted at un [with ukraine and palau] to say glorifying nazis was okay.. when everyone else in un said it was bad.. that was the unfit president
chuck Member	Sat Aug 19 23:23:40 White knighting for Trump at 7:12am on a Sunday morning? Such dedication.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 00:33:14 chuck can't explain why obama voted at un to say it was cool to glorify nazis [with only ukraine and palau agreeing with his warped leftist message]
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 11:26:52 This is just spewing nonsense in the hopes that I'll be forced to waste my time rebutting it. Everybody knows it's easier and less time-consuming to say an untruth than it is to debunk that untruth. Debating 101, really. Pertinent facts are: - Obama is not President - Trump is a dumpster fire Even his fans know it now though they might not be willing to say it aloud yet.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 11:43:44 obama was president and decided it was okay to glorify nazis according to un vote.. siding with ukraine a country where nazis drive tanks and their daily hate crimes against jews go uninvestigated.. and only also palau [that hardly counts as third since it is virtually uninhabited puppet of usa just mirroring master] leftists don't say a word to denounce obama at time meanwhile trump denounces nazis and people act like he is unfit president.. absurd selectiveness of course
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Aug 20 11:50:39 i knew he was unfit his entire campaign! find one instance of him demonstrating knowledge of a subject...
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 20 11:51:24 Please don't call liberals and Obama leftists. They are not leftists.
Dukhat Member	Sun Aug 20 12:02:37 Werewolf's so fucking stupid, he actually beat obaminated. Literally spewing far-right website bullshit and not being able to tell it's bullshit. He's going straight to hell along with dumb rod.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 12:04:29 dukhat and chuck on the same side again.. confederacy of dunces
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 12:05:11 werewolf dictator Member Sat Aug 19 23:12:38 meanwhile it was obama who voted at un to say glorifying nazis was okay werewolf dictator Member Sun Aug 20 00:33:14 chuck can't explain why obama voted at un to say it was cool to glorify nazis werewolf dictator Member Sun Aug 20 11:43:44 obama was president and decided it was okay to glorify nazis according to un vote.. siding with ukraine Wait lol. You're talking about when Russia invaded Ukraine and, in this context, as proof of that phrase you keep repeating, "Obama decided it was okay to glorify Nazis according to un vote"? Just lol. So much lol. Hammering home the same untruth over and over is a good way to get people to believe it but I don't think you've carried it off that well in this instance. Now would you care to talk about the current President and the current thing we're talking about, or are you just watching the clock today? Also, do you get comp time off during the week or is this a 7 days a week type gig?
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 12:24:04 http://jpo...asses-UN-committee-vote-473036 Despite the United States voting against it, a resolution that condemns the glorification of Nazis passed a UN General Assembly committee vote Thursday night, according to Russian News Agency Tass. The UN Social, Humanitarianism and Culture committee passed the vote, 131 states voted in favor, while 48 states abstained, most of which were European Union countries. The United States, Ukraine and a Palau- a small Island country in the Pacific, were the only three to vote against the resolution. Anatoly Viktorov, the Director of the Russian Foreign Ministry Department for Humanitarian Cooperation and Human Rights spoke, stressing the importance of the resolution. Viktorov stated that there are countries that have made "national heros" out of pro-Nazi forces. The resolution speaks of the concern in the "glorification" of the Nazi movement and of neo-Nazism such as the erecting of monuments or memorials and public demonstrations that glorify anything to do with the Nazi and neo-Nazi movement. Co-authored by 55 states including Russia, the resolution is set to be brought to the UN General Assembly by the end of the year. The vote, which happens for the same resolution annually, was vetoed by the US in 2014 and 2015 as well. In 2014 Terri Robl, who was at the time the US deputy representative to the UN Economic and Social Council, explained her opposition to the resolution, stating that the Russian government had thrown around terms such as Nazi and fascist for its own political ends. “We believe Russia’s efforts at the General Assembly, via this resolution, are aimed at its opponents, rather than at promoting or protecting human rights,” she said. Sam Sokol contributed to this report.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 12:32:09 http://www...-targets-WZO-in-Ukraine-501190 According to Ukrainian community leader Eduard Dolinsky, vandalism of Holocaust mass graves, monuments and Jewish cemeteries occurs on a daily basis across the country, but no such case has ever been investigated nor has anyone ever been caught. lol imagine that jews and russians are sensitive to nazis for some reason lol lol
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 12:41:32 It's interesting to step back for a moment and look at how you're attempting to derail the thread. That's the surest sign that you know how fucked your task of preventing people on the internet from discussing Trump is...you don't even try to defend him, you just jump straight over to this nonsense. I'll play your game though. ---------------- "We condemn without reservation all forms of religious and ethnic intolerance or hatred at home and around the world. However, due to this resolution's overly narrow scope and politicized nature, and because it calls for unacceptable limits on the fundamental freedom of expression, the United States cannot support it." - Deputy U.S. Representative to the Economic and Social Council Stefanie Amadeo, explaining the U.S. vote. I notice that the resolution has also been brought up (and received a no vote from the US, not a veto - gg jpost.com) in 2014 and 2015. So after Russia invaded Ukraine, Russia became very concerned with UN resolutions about Nazism? Fascinating.
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 12:45:11 Do you think Trump will tell our UN delegation to support this resolution this year? It'd let him be harsh on Nazis while also making advancing Putin's agenda. I call that a win-win. You should pass that suggestion along to your superiors. Should be good for a promotion or at least a one-time bonus.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 12:45:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Parubiy Andriy Parubiy.. Andriy Volodymyrovych Parubiy (Ukrainian: Андрій Володимирович Парубій) is a Ukrainian politician[6] who has been the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, the Ukrainian parliament, since 14 April 2016.[1].. In 1991 he founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine together with Oleh Tyahnybok;[10] the party combined radical nationalism and some neo-Nazi features (by its name and the "Wolfsangel"-like sign).[6][11][12].. Parubiy co-led the Orange Revolution in 2004.[6][13] .. In February 2010 Parubiy asked the European Parliament to reconsider its negative reaction to former Ukrainian President Victor Yushchenko's decision to award Stepan Bandera, the leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, the title of Hero of Ukraine.[15].. From December 2013 to February 2014 Parubiy was a commandant of Euromaidan.[18] He was coordinator of the volunteer security corps for the mainstream protesters.[19] He was then appointed Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine.[7] This appointed was approved by (then) new Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on June 16, 2014.[20]
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 12:47:30 http://the...nt-of-un-anti-nazi-resolution/ US Sole Opponent of UN Anti-Nazi Resolution Posted on November 10, 2010 by therearenosunglasses US Sole Opponent of UN Anti-Nazi Resolution UN Building, New YorkBy Carla Stea / RCFP On December 18, 2009, The United Nations General Assembly, by an overwhelming majority, adopted Resolution 64/147, A/C.3/64/L.53 put forth by the Third Committee, entitled: “Inadmissability of Certain Practices that Contribute to Fuelling Contemporary Forms of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance.” Excerpts from this resolution stated:.. Since 2003, similar resolutions opposing the resurgence of Nazism have been sponsored by the Russian Federation, along with other similarly concerned member States of the United Nations. Each year, the resolution has been adopted by the overwhelming majority of the members of the United Nations, in each case, with Iran, Syria and Israel voting together in favor of the resolution, and in each previous year the resolution was opposed by only 2 out of the 192 States belonging to the United Nations: previously, only the United States and the Marshall Islands opposed that resolution. This year, despite the change promised by the Obama Administration, the United States, alone and in isolation, opposed the resolution.
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 12:58:36 Why did you go from linking jpost.com to "therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com"? Enquiring minds want to know.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 13:00:35 because it's hard to find things usa msm barely covered 6+ years ago that's your best comeback after being humiliated huh
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 13:03:39 if you prefer [but you will probably whine like kind of person you are] http://sputniknews.com/russia/20091220157304558/
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 13:07:57 Why are you suddenly so huffy puffy? It looks like you've been caught trying to pull a bait and switch. "Here are undeniable facts...and here is slipping on something else and hoping nobody notices." I understand this is a crucial part of the act and very humiliating to be caught red-handed like this. No need to become aggrieved, bro. It looks bad is all I'm saying. Was Russia passing anti-Nazi resolutions at the UN in 2010? I'm open to non-American news sources.
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 13:15:01 Oh, I see. So from what I can piece together from that at-least-not-wordpress link you shared, this originally comes from Russia tearing down Soviet-era monuments after the Russia-Georgia conflict in 2008? So you're ah-ha, gotcha reveal here is "no this has been going on since TWO wars of aggression ago. Take THAT" You've shown me that Trump is fit for office. Thanks for your relevant and timely contributions to the discussion.
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 13:15:50 *Georgia tearing down Soviet monuments
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 20 14:05:38 "after Russia invaded Ukraine" Crimea? Wasn't Russia already there? They had a contract that allowed them to have troops on Crimea. When shit started to happen in Ukraine the people of Crimea then voted to join with Russia. So Russia didn't really invade anyone.
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 14:18:04 @paramount Off-topic Russian apologism is off-topic. WD is aiming to distract from the dumpster fire Trump and his dysfunctional regime. Why? I just don't know. I'm indulging WD here but it's tangential to the actual thread topic which is Trump. Even Hot Rod's defense of Trump in this thread was half-hearted. He's clearly tired of this shit too. Feel free to start a thread about Russian apologism though. I'd be happy to contribute.
werewolf dictator Member	Sun Aug 20 14:45:48 the idea russia invaded georgia or crimea is like saying russia aggressively invaded germany via ukraine at end of wwii [as yatsenyuk has his history].. to which i expect chuck would move goalposts again and ask me to find un resolution with complete voting records from before 1945.. and find it reasonable to stand with only like obama and palau and ukraine in believing it's therefore cool to glorify nazis
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 14:50:21 Lol. And back to the talking points. Pass along my suggestion about having Trump sign this brave Russian stand against Nazism.
chuck Member	Sun Aug 20 14:52:01 I feel like I spend all my time talking to you recently WD. You seem to have taken a real interest in Americans expressing their opinions about American politics. It is heartwarming. What are your opinions about your country's politics? Which country is that again?
murder Member	Mon Aug 21 07:23:27 "chuck can't explain why obama voted at un to say it was cool to glorify nazis" Because they killed millions of your Soviet comrades.
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