Utopia Talk / Politics / Take Down George Washington's Statue...

Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 19 17:19:48 2017 and rename the park after Mayor Harold Washington, and Jackson Park could be named after civil rights leader Rev. Jesse Jackson or singer Michael Jackson. That is *****NOT MY POSITION*****. That is what Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center of Chicago wants. Here it is, the first pebble tossed into, what should be, The Placid Waters of Freedom. Now They Want to Tear Down a George Washington Statue August 17, 2017 Daniel Greenfield The left has no natural stopping point. It keeps on going and going. Whatever its current stated goal is, it's not a stopping point, only the next step. And yes, it doesn't stop with Lee. It won't even stop with Washington for that matter. But yes, George is next on the statue hit list. A bronze statue of George Washington on horseback stands at the corner of 51st and King Drive, at the northwest entrance to Washington Park. Bishop James Dukes, pastor of Liberation Christian Center, said he wants the statue gone, and he wants George Washington’s name removed from the park. And he's got a great idea for the next step. He said he’s not necessarily asking the city rename the parks altogether. He suggested Washington Park could be named after former Mayor Harold Washington, and Jackson Park could be named after civil rights leader Rev. Jesse Jackson or singer Michael Jackson. That's a tough one. Should Chicago name a park after a pedophile or a racist? The Pentecostal Liberation Christian Center has had its own local issues. All sorts of issues. Aretha Hence filed a lawsuit July 28 in the Cook County Circuit Court against Liberation Christian Center and James E. Dukes, alleging breach of contract. According to the complaint, Hence made four loans to Dukes for Liberation Christian Center on multiple occasions in 2007 and 2009 for plumbing work, legal fees and the church's mortgage, but has only been repaid about $1,000. Hence further claims she lent Dukes $75,000 that he allegedly told her would only need to sit in his bank account for a bank to see in order to make the decision to grant the church a mortgage. The suit states Dukes on Nov. 18 made a sworn testimony the loans were not gifts and the church would pay Hence back. Both the church and Dukes are accused of breach of contract. Duke is also accused of fraud, fraudulent misrepresentation and negligent misrepresentation. Maybe the park should be renamed after him? http://www...ngton-statue-daniel-greenfield
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 19 17:21:47 2017 And so we are getting close to the final stretch. Next they will want The Declaration of Independence and, the Greatest Document was ever written, The United States Constitution to be removed from our lives. Not long after that, you will get the Thought Police, something that is very similar to the religious police in Saudi Arabia. You will no longer be allowed the freedom of thought. Get George Orwell's book or movie, '1984' to see what you are in for. In Boston, the right is having a Free Speech rally. Yes, they are Nazi's, but it was pointed out to me yesterday that those very Nazi's are entitled to free speech according to The United States Supreme Court. If that is the case and you deny the Nazi's, as despicable and Evil as the Nazi's are, their free speech rally then it is indeed a reality, IMHO, that if you are there or if you support the deniers that if you refuse to allow the Nazi's their freedom to speak then you are no more entitled to ***your free speech*** than you claim they are. Wake up and smell the toxin's that are invadng the logic of both the extreme Right an the Extreme Left. We must rid ourselves of this extremism or we will lose all of our freedoms regardless of which side ends up dominating.
jergul rank	Sat Aug 19 17:28:20 2017 HR "Its getting close to the final stretch" Which party controls congress, the senate, the executive office, and how are supreme court judges appointed?
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 19 17:37:50 2017 It is not going to happen this year or even next. There are still a few years, or decades, to go, possibly. Whichever extremist group 'wins', that will be the end of America as we know it because both groups are just two sides to the same coin.
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 19 18:01:32 2017 jergul, Once Hitler was poised with the power to do it he took over Germany in about a year. The Congress and the Courts will be arrested and disbanded when the power is there. "Nazi seizure of power See also: Adolf Hitler's rise to power Although the Nazis won the greatest share of the popular vote in the two Reichstag general elections of 1932, they did not have a majority, so Hitler led a short-lived coalition government formed by the NSDAP and the German National People's Party.[10] Under pressure from politicians, industrialists, and the business community, President Paul von Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Chancellor of Germany on 30 January 1933. This event is known as the Machtergreifung (seizure of power).[11] In the following months, the NSDAP used a process termed Gleichschaltung (co-ordination) to rapidly bring all aspects of life under control of the party.[12] All civilian organisations, including agricultural groups, volunteer organisations, and sports clubs, had their leadership replaced with Nazi sympathisers or party members. By June 1933, virtually the only organisations not in the control of the NSDAP were the army and the churches.[" http://en...._Germany#Nazi_seizure_of_power
jergul rank	Sat Aug 19 18:06:48 2017 HR Nah. Your military is not heavily demilitarized and is sworn to uphold the constitution (not sworn to personal loyalty to the president). So unless you imagine the military joining the would be domestic tyrant...
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 19 18:10:50 2017 Like I said, "It is not going to happen this year or even next. There are still a few years, or decades, to go, possibly." We have barely reached the halfway point.
Paramount rank	Sat Aug 19 18:17:06 2017 Que sera sera.
tumbleweed rank	Sat Aug 19 21:40:11 2017 headline: 'Now They Want to Tear Down a George Washington Statue' article: 'Bishop James Dukes wants to tear down a George Washington statue'
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 19 22:18:18 2017 tw, you missed this. "Here it is, the first pebble tossed into, what should be, The Placid Waters of Freedom."
tumbleweed rank	Sun Aug 20 00:00:52 2017 that's not in the outrage seeking article hey look, Trump destroyed sculptures: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XWoirFToY ...then lied about them with his fake persona... a great man
tumbleweed rank	Sun Aug 20 00:10:48 2017 good luck finding an issue he hasn't been hypocritical on... quite remarkably so really
werewolf dictator rank	Sun Aug 20 01:38:24 2017 the leftist fake news mainstram media wants to blow up mount rushmore http://www...-blow-mount-rushmore-says-vice
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 02:21:30 2017 tw, I tell you that for a fact you or your children will lose your freedoms and all you can do is piss and moan about Trump when he may be your only salvation. You Sir, are fucked up beyond belief.
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 02:41:59 2017 tw, I just heard a black woman on TV say she wanted Washington's statutes brought down and I heard your hero, the Rev. Al Sharpton, say he wanted the Jefferson statues torn down. Now there's another Black woman that wants them torn down and replaced with statues of prominent black people. And you support those monsters.
Cold Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 02:56:32 2017 Hot rod wants to you to pick supporting adolf hitler and al Sharpton. This is going to be a difficult choice....
werewolf dictator rank	Sun Aug 20 03:07:53 2017 in the twisted minds of leftists.. thomas jefferson is adolf hitler
Cold Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 03:15:33 2017 No one said that, moron. This was towards rod's personal beliefs as he supports Nazis. Nonetheless, a person with your limits pretty much explains how you couldn't piece that together.
jergul rank	Sun Aug 20 03:18:03 2017 HR Its up to the park owners to decide what monuments should be there.
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 03:45:44 2017 It belongs to the public. And not the public on the other side of the country. Or the national politicians or the talking heads on TV.
tumbleweed rank	Sun Aug 20 04:20:15 2017 your God kept saying he wanted education local... and pretends people are learning history from statues... ergo, he should believe it should be decided at the local level
jergul rank	Sun Aug 20 04:26:18 2017 HR They belong to the municipalities in question. Who will do with them as they choose, right?
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 04:29:14 2017 I have no God, I am an atheist. I think the local public should decide, leave them up or move them to the nearest museum where they can be displayed either inside or on the grounds. Just a thought. If you destroy a statue then you are no better than a book burner,
tumbleweed rank	Sun Aug 20 04:30:44 2017 "I think the local public should decide, leave them up or move them to the nearest museum where they can be displayed either inside or on the grounds. " then what are you arguing about? your OP person was a local also Al Sharpton Is Really Awful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPUVVRi1mOI
jergul rank	Sun Aug 20 04:34:35 2017 HR You do not seem to have a very firm grasp of ownership. But sure, the municipalities could choose to devolve the decision to referenda, or give away, selle, or store the statues. Hell, they could even decide to just keep them where they are.
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 04:35:13 2017 I'm not arguing. I am telling you that if either the extreme right or the extreme left subjugate the other you will lose all of your freedoms.
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 04:39:45 2017 I think that is what I said. If they store them it would be the same as locking up the history books. If they sell or give them away then the new owner is faced with the same decision.
jergul rank	Sun Aug 20 05:14:49 2017 HR The same as locking up a history book. I lock up quite a number every time I leave the house.
Hot Rod rank	Sun Aug 20 14:21:49 2017 jergul, you become more the fool every day. Your little "jest" tells me there are books that you would like to see burned. Would this be a start, 'Alexis de Tocqueville. On Democracy in America'?
jergul rank	Sun Aug 20 17:12:28 2017 What jest? I own books. I can do what I like with them. Keeping them locked up when I leave the house is one of the things I like to do with them. Artistic and or historical value is of course a valid argument. Which should be made as part of a decision making process on the fate of an individual statue or school/street/county name. Most of the monuments are from 1900-1970 incidentally and a number are shoddy mass productions from Northern foundries. http://www...t/files/whoseheritage_splc.pdf
Hot Rod rank	Tue Aug 22 14:37:15 2017 Now they are after Christopher Columbus, have no idea why. What next? Will they want to tear down The White House because it was built by slaves? This hard left that is causing problems, that no one wants to accuse them of, is nothing but hard core communist radicals that have an agenda of their own. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the Democratic Party or their agenda. They care nothing for the statues. That may be an excuse, but what they really want is a battleground where they can fight the Nazis. This needs to be brought to light so the situation can be understood by all.
yankeessuck123 rank	Tue Aug 22 14:37:57 2017 Hot Rod Revved Up Tue Aug 22 07:37:15 Now they are after Christopher Columbus, have no idea why. No idea why, you say?
Hot Rod rank	Tue Aug 22 14:42:43 2017 Yes. True he did not treat the natives at all right, but I believe that native tribe no longer exists. Not 100% sure though.
yankeessuck123 rank	Tue Aug 22 14:51:55 2017 So...genocide clears the moral slate?
Hot Rod rank	Tue Aug 22 15:35:43 2017 Of course not, but why is this group involving him in taking down the statues. I just don't see a ***MODERN*** motivation. There have been thousands of cases of genocide throughout history. This was a fairly modest attempt on the part of Columbus if you want to keep score. I think the real blame for the genocide lies with the king and queen of Spain. They did a thousand or more damage to that tribe than Columbus did. It just seems a bit bizarre to me that they are blaming Columbus for anything.
yankeessuck123 rank	Tue Aug 22 16:14:01 2017 Perhaps because statues are typically meant to glorify?
jergul rank	Tue Aug 22 16:48:33 2017 HR What is your position on Hitler memorials?
TJ rank	Tue Aug 22 18:31:33 2017 Statues can't feed themselves. They only manage to exist in foolish minds. A lesson in idolatry and diversity. Damn, this is fun.
Hot Rod rank	Tue Aug 22 23:21:40 2017 jergul - HR What is your position on Hitler memorials? I would take a different route to avoid looking at it if the community were in favor of displaying it.
yankeessuck123 rank	Wed Aug 23 09:50:44 2017 So it comes down to popular will for you, then? So if the community favors removing these Confederate statues, you support doing so?
Hot Rod rank	Wed Aug 23 15:47:02 2017 Of course, that is the whole idea about America. We should have a much smaller federal government and let the local governments have more control over their affairs. That is what I have thought for a very long time now. If they do remove them from the public park I would hope they would at least move them to the grounds of the nearest museum.
yankeessuck123 rank	Wed Aug 23 21:47:15 2017 So then I suppose my next question would be, given that it is local governments removing statues, do you have some sort of clear evidence that the majority of locals in these cases actually oppose this?
Hot Rod rank	Wed Aug 23 22:23:26 2017 No, and neither does the local officials that are bringing them down. Personally, I think they should be left up. We need to be reminded of our history. We certainly made some egregious mistakes in the past. I think slavery was very near the top if not the most critical error. Some others were the Indian wars where we stole their lands and their culture. Another 'episode' was the internment of Japanese Americans in the United States during World War II, 62% of them were American Citizens. I'm sure there were many more instances where our government screwed over some of our own people.
TJ rank	Thu Aug 24 03:55:59 2017 I wouldn't be surprised to see fruits eventually wanting to change the nine places in the States named Lynchburg.
Hot Rod rank	Thu Aug 24 04:25:48 2017 LOL.
Cold Rod rank	Thu Aug 24 11:37:40 2017 "We need to be reminded of our history. We certainly made some egregious mistakes in the past. I think slavery was very near the top if not the most critical error. " Yet, you rather igmore the timeline to when these statues were erected? People are reminded of history, through museums, history classes, documentaries. These are relics erected during a time to disenfranchise a group during jim crow ans civil rights movies. More in the 20th century. You also had generals who did not favor having any monuments dedicated to them as they viewed it divisive. But that is history you rather ignore, yes?
Cold Rod rank	Thu Aug 24 11:39:46 2017 Civil rights movements*
zavyx rank	Sat Aug 26 00:36:17 2017 Hot Rod "as despicable and Evil as the Nazi's are," what did the nazis ever do to you? nazis killed jews because they are jews. americans killed vietnamese because they didn't want to vote. weight it dude.
zavyx rank	Sat Aug 26 00:37:45 2017 hitler disposed of jews in an orderly and humane way. when american soldiers arived in germany, they went around raping and killing little girls. so don't give me this shit that hitler was evil and americans are righteous.
zavyx rank	Sat Aug 26 00:58:02 2017 tell me hot rod, and please be completely honest with us; who deserves to die more> the jew for being a jew, or the vietnamese man who didn't give a crap about voting?
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 26 01:56:58 2017 You. Because you are full of hate and you have no control of it.
zavyx rank	Sat Aug 26 02:20:52 2017 nice side step, I bet you were thinking 'jew' you can't bring yourself to be honest about it.
Hot Rod rank	Sat Aug 26 02:44:58 2017 I have had good friends that are Jews. As for Vietnamese, they never did anything to me. They would have been an American ally if Truman had helped them.
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