Utopia Talk / Politics / Repeal delayed

Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Tue Jun 27 23:49:37 Wow It looks like he could not even get 41 votes for and some sources say only five votes in favor of repeal. Republicans fucked up massively. You can already here the ads with Trump saying "We will repeal and Replace. IT'll be Easy. No problem. Believe me!"
Paramount Member	Wed Jun 28 04:45:54 Trump has apparantly said that he is okay with if his health care reform does not go through. lol He is basically saying that Obamacare isn't so bad after all.
patom Member	Wed Jun 28 05:32:30 Won't the Koch consortium of billionaires be upset that their investment in these members of Congress is not paying off?
Chen Member	Wed Jun 28 06:04:36 If Trump was half the dealmaker he says he is he'd opt for liberal ideas in a ACA repeal and replace. There's too many moderate Republicans and those up for reelection to vote for an unpopular law, and there's too many conservatives who will oppose everything short of an outright repeal. Trump's supporters are stupid enough to think he came up with these ideas. He'll get all of the credit.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Jun 28 06:33:21 This bill is going to pass eventually, I think, because the health care part is not particularly important, they can change pretty much anything, to appease conservatives or moderates. (for appearance sake individual mandate is replaced by a penalty or something) The tax cut for the wealthy is what counts, as long as it is on the table, chances are it is going to pass ---------------------- Senate Health Bill Gives Huge Tax Cuts to Businesses, High-Income Households WASHINGTON—The Senate’s health-care bill repeals hundreds of billions of dollars in taxes on businesses and high-income households and includes a retroactive cut in capital-gains taxes. The tax portions of the proposal, a draft of which was released on Thursday in advance of a possible vote next week, are very similar to the elements in the version the House passed last month. The plan operates like the 2010 Affordable Care Act, but in reverse. Instead of raising taxes to pay for expanded insurance coverage, it reduces coverage and cuts taxes. “It’s very important that we repeal these taxes as quickly as possible,” said Sen. Pat Toomey (R., Pa.) “These taxes are doing damage to our economy.” New Senate Health Bill Draws Mixed Reactions Senate Republicans’ version of a bill to replace Obamacare drew mixed reactions on the Hill, with four senators saying they aren’t ready to support it. But what do Americans want? A new WSJ poll shows many want Congress to find some way to fix the Affordable Care Act The taxes it would remove were created to pay for Obamacare. The most notable is a 3.8% tax on investment income, including capital gains and dividends. The tax only applies to individuals with incomes exceeding $200,000 and married couples making more than $250,000. cont https://www.wsj.com/articles/senate-health-bill-gives-huge-tax-cuts-to-businesses-high-income-households-1498151061
Trolly McSerious Member	Wed Jun 28 07:39:52 Because they are suffering. So lets give them their break.
Dukhat Member	Wed Jun 28 10:15:46 @Chen - He alienated the dems too much to do that. If he were really playing 4d chess he'd fix Obamacare by pushing for fixes with moderate republicans and dems to vote against it. But he's pissed off dems and moderates and only has the far-right GOP under his heel so he's stuck governing like President Ted Cruz would have. @Crownroyal - reconciliation must be deficit neutral. All the "savings" come from screwing over poor people and cutting essential health benefits. If people were mad with Obamacare's silver plans, wait until they have more expensive bronze plans with even higher deductibles that let them die if they get cancer and don't cover things like opioid treatment. The republicans can't cut anyone's taxes without causing everyone's premiums to go up and decreasing their benefits. There will literally be 99 people hurt for every 1 person that "benefits." For the people that "benefit," only maybe 10% would get money worth more than the cost of losing essential health benefits and be able to use the money to self-insure. So the Republicans might pass this shit bill to pay off the Koch brothers and Mercer family. 40 percent of the voters in this country would even go along because they are so hopelessly partisan and get their news from Fox News. But once premiums go up, dems will be able to register enough new voters to overwhelm the current GOP gerrymander. So let them pass it if they dare. It would be the most politically stupid event since Hitler declared war on the US.
Dukhat Member	Wed Jun 28 10:16:28 dare* dems to vote against it
patom Member	Wed Jun 28 11:31:45 Every Democrat politician in the country who is running against a Republican that supports this bill should shout till their lungs collapse: Are you more concerned with the health of the American Citizens or more concerned with the health of the Health Insurance industry? In every debate, in every ad, in every opportunity they can muster. Repeat that like it's a mantra. Maybe then the voters will see who might have their best interests.
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Wed Jun 28 12:11:00 I don't know voters are pretty stupid these days.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Jun 28 15:24:33 "reconciliation must be deficit neutral." Right, but what happens if it isn't? Policy sunsets in 10 years, like GWB tax cuts for example. So republicans might go for that, why not, every dollar wealthy can get counts. Did you see the "retroactive cut in capital-gains taxes" in the GOP Senate bill? Because the losses in capital gains taxes for a few years must, must be recovered. Basically a decade ACA- tax free for the rich, whats not to like. Thats one way. Another way is even better. The 10 years sunset rule is just a rule, it can be changed, to, lets say 30 years. Republicans can definitely go for it. "So let them pass it if they dare. It would be the most politically stupid event since Hitler declared war on the US." I am not so sure about that. I mean, I am positive that this law will be horrendous and horrendously unpopular, but i am not sure that this will translate into huge and long term political losses for GOP. For the holy grail of massively cutting Medicaid and taxes for the wealthy at the same time, GOP might go for it, even threatened with some losses.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Jun 28 19:20:57 From today's Foxnews(!) poll: Senate GOP health care plan: 27% favor 54% oppose Obamacare 52% favorable 46% unfavorable http://www...plan-as-vote-gets-delayed.html the fact that GOP is still trying to pass a bill this unpopular, tells you everything you need to know how much they want these capital gains/dividends and other upper bracket tax cuts.
delude Member	Wed Jun 28 19:36:09 Or how much they hated Obama.
Chen Member	Wed Jun 28 21:09:51 I'd be surprised if anything the GOP does has any lasting negative impact because voters will just get pissed at Democrats again when the pendulum swings back. These same Republicans completely tanked the economy due to deregulation, but here we are with them again. As to the bill I doubt they'll get the tax cuts they want without gutting coverage. That's why this seems like it won't happen. There's too many who worry about their jobs in the short term.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Jun 28 21:58:48 "As to the bill I doubt they'll get the tax cuts they want without gutting coverage." they'll gut it.
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