Utopia Talk / Politics / London is third world

Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 00:34:59 Unintelligent sebs, random religious violence... skyscrapers made out of third rate flammable materials. Seriously how does every inch of that skyscraper burn? What the fuck did you make it out of? At least the pictures are cool.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 01:00:26 Sam continues to fap over dead people.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 01:02:18 It's a housing block. Flammable material density is much much higher than in office blocks - peoples stuff.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 01:17:17 120 homes in there. Fire broke out at 1am, and the fire alarms and suppression didn't go off. It's council housing I think. You're laughing a joking about children waking terrified and then being burned to death in the middle of the night. To score points with a internet stranger. Remember the "Muslims who cheered on 9/11" - you're one of them.
The Children Member	Wed Jun 14 01:24:14 "London is third world" >> man wasnt i sayin this since 2000 its a shithole here
Paramount Member	Wed Jun 14 02:06:58 I read on a swedish news site that the building had a cladding (is that the right word?). The fire supposedly started in a kitchen on the second floor, and then spread outside because of the cladding.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 03:43:34 https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ The landlord's got form. See the blog posts of the residents action group. "It is our conviction that a serious fire in a tower block or similar high density residential property is the most likely reason that those who wield power at the KCTMO will be found out and brought to justice! The Grenfell Action Group believe that the KCTMO narrowly averted a major fire disaster at Grenfell Tower in 2013 when residents experienced a period of terrifying power surges that were subsequently found to have been caused by faulty wiring. We believe that our attempts to highlight the seriousness of this event were covered up by the KCTMO with the help of the RBKC Scrutiny Committee who refused to investigate the legitimate concerns of tenants and leaseholders. We have blogged many times on the subject of fire safety at Grenfell Tower and we believe that these investigations will become part of damning evidence of the poor safety record of the KCTMO should a fire affect any other of their properties and cause the loss of life that we are predicting."
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 03:45:31 "Many Muslims in the North Kensington area were up late due to the holy month of Ramadan, and mosques have swung into action [providing relief]." They all hate us, don't they?
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 03:54:23 Paramount: I would take that with a pinch of salt. It had cladding recently fitted, but I'd be surprised if that's "the reason". The fire suppression systems and alarms didn't go off.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 03:54:52 It's too early to say what caused it and how it spread.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 04:51:16 "The more I looked up, floor upon floor. Endless numbers of people. Mainly the kids, because obviously their voices, with their high pitched voices - that will remain with me for a long time." But the pictures are cool right? Sam has near autistic lack of empathy.
smart dude Member	Wed Jun 14 05:46:02 Don't be so sensitive, Seb. Some dude on the internet is commenting on (not laughing at, or are you just making stuff up?) the inadequacy of a building that is literally in flames right now. But you're right. It's no one's fault. No criticism is in order. Let's just hope and pray for the victims (which is useless and doesn't change anything.)
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 06:23:42 Smart Dude: The issue is more about the lack of basic sensitivity and compassion that some people have here. You say "Be less sensitive" - I think the opposite and that is fundamental issue to much disagreement in general on this board. There is a fundamental lack of basic human decency and empathy in some - this should not prevent making difficult decisions through reason rather than emotion. However there are some here that think that is a mark of emotional maturity (rather than immaturity) to discount the human impact of events out of hand. To be talking about cool pictures while the fire still burns and people die, while slinging out insults on a daily basis about others not regarding life importantly, is a key issue. Re culpability, it really looks like the holding company of the local authority that manages the property may well have huge liability. I think heads will roll.
Average European Member	Wed Jun 14 06:56:52 Council housing? UKIP arsonist.
russian Member	Wed Jun 14 06:58:20 ok who wants to guess how many died. My estimate is about 62.
McKobb Member	Wed Jun 14 07:45:58 "Children banged on closed windows as they were enveloped by the dark smoke. A woman dropped her baby from at least a dozen stories up, desperately hoping someone would catch it in the streets below." Damn
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Jun 14 07:47:44 Horrible
Rugian Member	Wed Jun 14 08:11:09 AP: London mayor Sadiq Khan states that high-rise infernos are "part and parcel" of living in a major urban center
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 08:30:20 Rugian: “part and parcel of living in a great, global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police" Unlike Sadiq Khan, Rugian thinks that anti-terror measures are wrong he thinks we should: * scrap the police terrorist detection attempts, * stand down the rapid response units, * stop the community policing and de-radicalisation programmes, * cut police funding. * stop arresting and deporting hate preachers Because Terror shouldn't happen, Rugian thinks we should not plan for it. That's why Sadiq Khan is mayor of London, and Rugian wouldn't be trusted to run a lemonade stand.
Rugian Member	Wed Jun 14 08:38:38 Seb, Despite the fact that the UK has one of the most sophisticated and pervasive surveillance and intelligence regimes in the entirety of human history, exceeding even those of the fascist and communist dictatorships of the 20th century, London continues to be one of the most frequent victims of terrorist attacks in the world. There's a reason for that, and we both know what it is. But since you can't openly acknowledge it, you have to call back on depriving existing UK citizens of even more freedoms and turning your country into an even more oppressive state instead. That's why the United States is the greatest country in the world, and Seb and the UK are considered threats to freedom and liberty.
Rugian Member	Wed Jun 14 08:45:27 Seb after a terrorist attack: "People who call for immigration bans because four people got knifed yestersay are overreacting hysterical fools and should be ignored. All we need to do instead is abolish the privacy rights of 65 million Britons and monitor their activities 24/7. That's totally reasonable, unlike those immigration-haters." Would you agree that about encapsulates everything you stand for?
hood Member	Wed Jun 14 08:48:20 "The issue is more about the lack of basic sensitivity and compassion that some people have here." Is there anything wrong with lacking sensitivity and compassion?
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 08:49:21 Rugian: That's a big change in subject form someone who doesn't want to admit they were peddling lies. Lets go back to the point where you were accusing London's Mayor of turning a blind eye to terrorism. An appropriate response might be "oops, maybe I shouldn't use that news source anymore, it's clearly pushing an agenda", not "lets double down and continue trying to prove a point that isn't there to be had." The US isn't considered the greatest country in the world - UK regularly tops US on soft power indexes. As for UK being a frequent target for terrorist attacks, I'd point out it was next to zero in the period between the Good Friday deal up until we got on board with the Iraq war. And what measure, exactly, would you take to address the issue I "won't talk about"? Because apparently you won't talk about it either, I have to assume you mean "waaa, Muslims". So, what's your solution then? Mass deportations? Mass incarcerations? Death camps? How do you reconcile this with *not* "Depriving existing UK Citizens of even more freedoms" ? You know the UK has taken less than 5000 refugees from Syria and the middle east? So you can't weasel your way out of that.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 08:58:52 hood: Yes, there is. Public policy is about delivering the public good, and peoples emotional responses are a part of that. People who lack sensitivity and compassions are often blind to the negative consequences of some of their proposed policies, meaning they are unable to come to a sensible cost benefit analysis because they dismiss those costs as they cannot understand or quantify them. It is one thing to appreciate sensitivities and compassion, but weigh them against wider issues and chose to discount them. It is another to simply not appreciate them at all. Rugian: "People who call for immigration bans because four people got knifed yesterday" ... "are barking up the wrong tree as the vast majority of the terrorists are not immigrants so we will need to adopt the measures you wish to avoid anyway, unless we intend to leave ourselves open to much more deadly attacks we have largely thwarted successfully using those measures. All they will achieve is to severely impact a number of British citizens and residents, with no increase in security; and in fact a reduction in it if they intend to reduce police surveillance powers, which are already subject to a number of independent checks and balances." Fixed it for you.
hood Member	Wed Jun 14 09:10:23 None of us are developing public policy though.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 09:25:03 hood: Same applies for making meaningful comment on it. Also, generally, it means you are missing what for most people is a huge dimension in thinking and viewing the world.
hood Member	Wed Jun 14 10:02:19 So it's "for the public good" for me to be sensitive and compassionate? But nonetheless, I asked what is wrong with lacking these things and you only said that someone "would be blind to negative consequences." I'm asking for the negative consequences.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 10:56:34 Well i was mainly commenting on the staggering incompetence required for a fire to engulf an entire skyscraper rapidly. Even the fires started by sebs immigrants on 9/11 didnt spread much beyond the impact floors. But since seb is going to get all butthurt about it, i will comment that seb glosses over the deaths of far more people in terror attacks, which, according to him, is an acceptable ammount of collateral damage from his immigration plans.
smart dude Member	Wed Jun 14 11:10:47 "To be talking about cool pictures while the fire still burns and people die, while slinging out insults on a daily basis about others not regarding life importantly, is a key issue." Holy shit you are so immune to sarcasm detection. It's sad. And you're British?
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 11:57:56 Hood: Actually, no, I didn't say that it's for the public good that you are sensitive and compassionate. I said that people who lack sensitivity and compassion tend to misunderstand what the public percieves as the public good. Negative consequences: so for example Sam Adams wants a blanket ban on Muslim immigration, ignoring the fact that this would prevent many British citizens seeing their family. It would result in mass shortages of hospital staff (doctors and nurses). Consistently the public will support travel bans at a higher level when primed to think about terrorism, but when asked if they want to stop family reunions of British Muslims or to reduce doctors and nurses, they say the opposite. A failure to properly understand why that is and what the public will think when implemented and the required actions are put in place leads to disastrous politics. Sam: Of course you were... a near autistic lack of social and emotional intelligence hasc never been your hallmark. Given so few of the attackers were immigrants, again, how can you say that immigration is the problem? Smart Dude: Sam isn't being sarcastic. He means it.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 11:57:58 Hood: Actually, no, I didn't say that it's for the public good that you are sensitive and compassionate. I said that people who lack sensitivity and compassion tend to misunderstand what the public percieves as the public good. Negative consequences: so for example Sam Adams wants a blanket ban on Muslim immigration, ignoring the fact that this would prevent many British citizens seeing their family. It would result in mass shortages of hospital staff (doctors and nurses). Consistently the public will support travel bans at a higher level when primed to think about terrorism, but when asked if they want to stop family reunions of British Muslims or to reduce doctors and nurses, they say the opposite. A failure to properly understand why that is and what the public will think when implemented and the required actions are put in place leads to disastrous politics. Sam: Of course you were... a near autistic lack of social and emotional intelligence hasc never been your hallmark. Given so few of the attackers were immigrants, again, how can you say that immigration is the problem? Smart Dude: Sam isn't being sarcastic. He means it.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 11:58:01 Hood: Actually, no, I didn't say that it's for the public good that you are sensitive and compassionate. I said that people who lack sensitivity and compassion tend to misunderstand what the public percieves as the public good. Negative consequences: so for example Sam Adams wants a blanket ban on Muslim immigration, ignoring the fact that this would prevent many British citizens seeing their family. It would result in mass shortages of hospital staff (doctors and nurses). Consistently the public will support travel bans at a higher level when primed to think about terrorism, but when asked if they want to stop family reunions of British Muslims or to reduce doctors and nurses, they say the opposite. A failure to properly understand why that is and what the public will think when implemented and the required actions are put in place leads to disastrous politics. Sam: Of course you were... a near autistic lack of social and emotional intelligence hasc never been your hallmark. Given so few of the attackers were immigrants, again, how can you say that immigration is the problem? Smart Dude: Sam isn't being sarcastic. He means it.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 11:58:01 Hood: Actually, no, I didn't say that it's for the public good that you are sensitive and compassionate. I said that people who lack sensitivity and compassion tend to misunderstand what the public percieves as the public good. Negative consequences: so for example Sam Adams wants a blanket ban on Muslim immigration, ignoring the fact that this would prevent many British citizens seeing their family. It would result in mass shortages of hospital staff (doctors and nurses). Consistently the public will support travel bans at a higher level when primed to think about terrorism, but when asked if they want to stop family reunions of British Muslims or to reduce doctors and nurses, they say the opposite. A failure to properly understand why that is and what the public will think when implemented and the required actions are put in place leads to disastrous politics. Sam: Of course you were... a near autistic lack of social and emotional intelligence hasc never been your hallmark. Given so few of the attackers were immigrants, again, how can you say that immigration is the problem? Smart Dude: Sam isn't being sarcastic. He means it.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 12:20:28 Sebs posting ability is about as competant as londons third world leftist beurocrats maintaining community housing.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 12:22:46 "We didnt fix the sprinkler system or move the oily rags out of the stairwell, but we did have our morning standup, so we did part of our job" -seb
hood Member	Wed Jun 14 12:28:08 None of what you listed requires any sort of compassion or sensitivity to understand. Also, there's a huge difference between immigration and travel. A British Muslim traveling to xyz then trying to come back to Britannia wouldn't be bothered at all by immigration limitation.
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 15:33:38 Sam: You are not even pretending to make sense any more. Hood: "there's a huge difference between immigration and travel" Firstly, right, yeah, explain that one to me. If your thesis is that people from Syria pose a terrorism risk, why do they need to settle here to pose that threat? Secondly, I don't think the docotor's and nurses are going to commute here, and when they want to bring their parents or dependents here, that also implies immigration. RE Compassion and Empathy, yeah, basically it does - because otherwise you need someone else to come along and tell you that these are even issues. Hence you see some politicians misjudge the mood time and time again. They don't get it. Like how a certain number of people here don't get why going "white lives matter" is a massively inappropriate response to "Black lives matter" - no emotional intelligence. They come at it from a purely logical point of view.
hood Member	Wed Jun 14 15:49:11 "If your thesis is that people from Syria pose a terrorism risk, why do they need to settle here to pose that threat?" You're looking at it backwards. Muslim brits already live in britain (otherwise they wouldn't be brits). Harsh immigration laws do not prevent them from leaving the country and then returning. If they still have family in "the old world" they can easily travel there and return; after all, they aren't immigrating back to the UK on their way back from vacation, they're only traveling. "I don't think the docotor's and nurses are going to commute here, and when they want to bring their parents or dependents here, that also implies immigration." What does that have to do with anything? Or are you in some fantasy land where the only doctors and nurses are muslim and live in the middle east? "Compassion and Empathy, yeah, basically it does - because otherwise you need someone else to come along and tell you that these are even issues. Hence you see some politicians misjudge the mood time and time again. They don't get it." This has nothing to do with compassion. "Like how a certain number of people here don't get why going "white lives matter" is a massively inappropriate response to "Black lives matter" - no emotional intelligence. They come at it from a purely logical point of view." Black lives matter is already inappropriate itself. White lives matter is a response to the intellectual dishonest arguments from blm (or dumbasses spouting dumbass things; but that isn't a compassion thing and in fact, dumbasses spouting dumbass things is almost entirely emotional).
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 16:14:58 Seb is actually complaining that his opponents are too logical.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 16:16:15 Mah feeeeewings are hurt!!!! I demand action!!!! Facts be damned! Heaar me roar!!!
Seb Member	Wed Jun 14 16:40:52 Sam: Yes - too logical as in "Our objective is to reduce crime in this city, therefore we will depopulate this city. No people, no crime, QED". As in, fails to understand the desired outcome, delivers objective instead. Hood: "You're looking at it backwards" No, you are. "Harsh immigration laws do not prevent them from leaving the country and then returning" It prevents them from bringing their family members who are dependents. It actually does prevent them from leaving the country for more than 90 days a year (you lose ILR). It prevents the recruitment of doctors and nurses - which is something we do. It prevents a newly recruited doctor from bringing his wife and kids, so he doesn't come here. "Or are you in some fantasy land where the only doctors and nurses are muslim" So the UK doesn't train enough doctors and nurses, it recruits a lot from overseas. In terms of "Only" let me introduce you to the concept of supply and demand. Reduce supply to less than demand, what happens to prices? This in a context of a continued deficit, increasing demand for medical services due to ageing population, and rising costs of medical provision due to growing technical capability. Sure, magic this idea up that somehow we are going to get cheap nurses from elsewhere. We'll train them! Well ok, but British people aren't going into nursing and medical courses enough - probably because the prices are not high enough. So you are going to look at price increases. "This has nothing to do with compassion." Consistently, the public says it doesn't think it is right to split up families and prevent family re-unions - so yeah it is. "Black lives matter is already inappropriate itself" "Bzzzt, does not compute. Does not compute. Illogical. Emotional. Error."
Sam Adams Member	Wed Jun 14 17:11:03 Seb the retard thinks that all people are equally likely to be criminals.
obaminated Member	Wed Jun 14 17:52:53 Pretty horrific situation.
LazyCommunist Member	Thu Jun 15 01:30:57 Conservatives killed them! http://www...-mays-chief-staff-sat-10620357 Theresa May's chief of staff 'sat on' report warning high-rise blocks like Grenfell Tower were vulnerable to fire A coroner's report into a previous fire recommended a review of building regulations four years ago. Successive ministers said they were "still looking at it."
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 02:23:55 Sam: Sam can't do maths in a sensible way. Lets do this with cancer. Eating ham apparently has a very high correlation with increased cancer risk. The connection in the data is as strong and clear as smoking. Eating ham will increase your risk of bowel cancer by 17%! This is far more than the risk of an individual becoming someone who commits a large scale violent crime. However, bowel cancer isn't very likely. About 0.6% of people. So you have a 0.6% possibility of getting bowel cancer. The risk of eating ham will increase your absolute risk of getting bowl cancer in absolute terms by 0.1 percentage points. This is far, far more than the relative risk posed by additional immigration from Muslims. Do you give up Ham? And when you further divide the Muslim population between recent immigrants, and native born, almost all the "risk" factor comes from native born - which immigration bans will not effect. You argue that recent immigrants will either become terrorists or their children will. There is no evidence for that - otherwise the first wave of immigrants themselves would have radicalised. So when you add it all together, your analysis becomes an amalgamation of numbers crashed together, divorced of any reasoning or logic, and divorced from any of the costs associated with it - even quantifiable ones. It's poor reasoning Sam. And all you can offer in your defence is the non-sequitur argument that anyone disagreeing with you doesn't understand your argument. We do, it's just: a. contrary to the evidence (the increased rate of terror is in segments of the population who will not be directly impacted by your proposed policy) b. lacking in evidence (over the last 50 years, Irish people are a bigger statistical source of terror attacks, so logically this should be applied to Irish people if we think propensity to terror is an intrinsic personality issue) c. faulty analysis - you don't use the number appropriately.
EuropeanPussy Member	Thu Jun 15 03:26:08 Sam Adams is correct: London is third world Glad that UK leaves EU, they don't match our high standard. http://www...s-grenfell-tower-lies-twitter/ Meanwhile, one former chief firefighter, Jon Hall, described it as a “third world-type ­accident” and asked: “How can this possibly happen in 2017?” He tweeted: “It represents a failure of every component of fire safety & building management. No words for this.”
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 03:45:58 European Pussy: Sam Adams levels of tact there. This is the first spreading tower block fire in the UK for many decades, with over 4000 such buildings. Standards don't seem to be the cause to me - it's an easy get out of jail free card put out by the landlord: we did a bad job but there was no specific law against it, so it's not our fault. People are saying regulations are the issue but I think we will find it was negligence. Regulations don't and shouldn't specify exactly what to do - that varies by the nature of the building. The fact the building was built to contain fires but the contractors didn't box in gas pipes and used external cladding with plastic foam components look to be contributing factors. Essentially the property management company didn't do a risk assessment and undermined the safety features of the building. Which probably counts as criminal negligence, whether or not there is a specific regulation saying "don't put flammable panels on the outside of a building when far buildings ability to contain fire is dependent on the outside not being flammable." We shall see.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 08:20:38 Seb you retard, the more immigrants from terror groups you import, the more future terrorists you have. Do you think they wont breed? How many times have you gotten this wrong?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 09:09:36 The exterior was flammable. The interior was flammable. The sprinklers didnt work and the alarms didnt go off. And the best part is this was government housing managed by incompetent buerocrats and government functionaries. Lol. Sebs.
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 09:11:43 Sam: "from terror groups" You realise we don't import immigrants from terror groups? "Do you think they wont breed?" Non-sequitur - as the parents aren't terrorists, why sould their children be terrorists? Conversely the terrorists we do arrest are often shopped by their own families. The problem isn't simply "muslims are being born", it's radicalisation - and there are plenty of British Muslims to be radicalised. "How many times have you gotten this wrong?" None. You, conversely, aren't even wrong. Your proposition is like a man who has been injected with poison saying "Jolly good, I'll just not drink any more posion and I'll be fine." It does nothing to address the fact he has poison in him, and he didn't drink it in the first place.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 09:18:34 "You realise we don't import immigrants from terror groups?" Lol you retard. You import from a group statisticly much more likely to produce terrorists. "the parents aren't terrorists, why sould their children be terrorists?" Islam?
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 09:37:16 Sam: "You import from a group statisticly much more likely to produce terrorists." And this makes them a terrorist group as a whole? "Islam?" Are there parents not Islamic?
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 09:54:10 Yes. That is why they become terrorists. If the parents were not from a terror group, the kids wouod not be either.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 10:00:54 Which means, you should really execute the parents of terrorists. And in this case, you should execute the local landlords/government functionaries
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 10:45:26 Sam: So why don't the parents become terrorists at the same rate as second and third generation Muslims? This isn;t the case, so your hypothesis clearly can't be true.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 10:55:00 Why is the terror rate so much higher amongst muslims seb?
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 11:08:34 Why is the terror rate so different between different Muslim populations Sam?
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 11:09:39 Why is the terror rate for Irish people so much higher? And of different generations? It's almost as if it can't be so simple as "Catholics" or "Irish".
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 11:25:21 "Why is the terror rate so different between different Muslim populations Sam?" By all means, allow the safer groups in. But to allow the least safe groups access to your homeland is retarded.
Forwyn Member	Thu Jun 15 11:45:13 Iranians commit less terror for the same reason Korean immigrants commit less terror; they aren't as marginalized by the white man - Seb
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 12:25:31 Sounds like something that retard would say.
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 14:15:16 Sam: So you accept there is a difference in terror rates between different groups identified as Muslims? By far the most dangerous group - the one that accounts for over 90% of the attacks, are the ones born and raised in Europe. How is cutting migration going to stop that Sam? Once you have excluded those born and raised in Europe, the remaining Muslim born overseas who then comes to the UK do not have a statistically higher rate of terrorism. And the entire logic of your argument falls apart. Forwyn: So you think that the kinds of thing that drive British minorities to gang crime are completely different to those that drive them to terrorism? You really think there is no overlap at all? I suspect second generation Iranians are as likely to commit terror as second generation Pakistanis.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 14:25:53 Seb is an utter retard that doesnt realize a first generation leads to a second and then third generation.
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 14:29:11 Sam: And yet you are unable to explain why a future second generation would inevitably turn to terrorism when the first generation didn't. The only plausible explanations are local circumstance, and yet that is the one you dismiss.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 15:22:58 "And yet you are unable to explain why a future second generation would inevitably turn to terrorism" History.
Seb Member	Thu Jun 15 15:58:07 Sam: Be more specific.
Sam Adams Member	Thu Jun 15 17:08:47 You have not successfully integrated middle east immigrants in the past, you are unlikely to do so in the future.
McKobb Member	Thu Jun 15 22:43:31 I think Trump just issued a travel advisory on London.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Jun 16 13:21:06 A third world tower inhabited by third world residents burnt up and a third world mayor babbled incoherently. Yup. Sounds like london to me.
Paramount Member	Fri Jun 16 13:28:05 At least the building is still standing. In America, WTC7 imploded after a curtain catched fire.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Jun 16 13:39:37 The people that put up the structural core of grenfel clearly did a much better job than those who managed its fire safety...
Forwyn Member	Fri Jun 16 14:24:29 Pretty sure WTC7 had thousands of tons of debris on its roofs.
Seb Member	Fri Jun 16 15:44:10 Sam: So your approach is to ignore the big problem, the existing population - and do something ineffective instead. Khan's response was clear and reasonable. He's a hell of a lot more articulate than you. Being born and bred in the UK, calling him third world is just an example of your racism. Anyone dark skinned - "third world."
obaminated Member	Fri Jun 16 16:07:30 Actually seb, there are several eastern European countries populated by Caucasian which would be deemed 3rd world.
obaminated Member	Fri Jun 16 16:12:14 The fact that you instantly associate 3rd world with dark skinned human beings is fairly despicable.
Seb Member	Sat Jun 17 04:35:40 Obaminated: Khan isn't from eastern Europe. He's from the UK. Why do you think Sam is saying that he's "third world"? Do you think Sam thinks he's from eastern Europe?
Seb Member	Sat Jun 17 04:36:19 Turns out the cladding is banned under fire regs. So this is straight up criminal negligence.
jergul large member	Sat Jun 17 11:37:45 Seb The core problem is piss-poor inspecting regimes. An aspect that reeks of cover-up.
Seb Member	Sat Jun 17 12:47:09 jergul: Lots of contributing factors. The fire regs are apparently unclear. That said, which fucking shit stain decided to save £5000 by buying the non fireproof cladding irrespective of whether s/he was required to or not. The difference is £2 a sq meter.
Seb Member	Sat Jun 17 12:50:22 Not really sure it's cover up to be honest. The immediate claim by the borough that it was built to standards indicates they thought they had built it to standards using that panel. Of course, whether it was compliant with the regs or not does not trump the statutory duty to safety. There's case law on this for almost the same situation (panelling in a kitchen which was not required to be fireproof by building regs, but the courts ruled that whether there was no regulation that specified that paneling should be fire proof, the land lords had criminally failed in their obligations to provide a safe environment.
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