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Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump wants to cut his taxes massively
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 26 12:48:53
no 'death' tax (which only affects people w/ > $5 million)

no alternative min tax (which was >85% of Trump's tax bill, if that 2005 return was real)

15% business tax

yay for rich people
Sam Adams
Member
Wed Apr 26 13:00:33
Ahahaha what an asshole
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 26 13:01:14
early in his campaigning he suggested he would pay more taxes than now... haha... what a jokester / massive continuous liar
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Apr 26 13:08:58

tw, what does thew new tax ideas do for you?

Anything?

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Apr 26 13:20:48

What? No comment?

Paramount
Member
Wed Apr 26 13:47:21
What a corrupt shittyhole.
Average Ameriacn
Member
Wed Apr 26 13:59:47
I work really hard, so I will be a millionaire one day. Then I will enjoy low taxes, too. Everyone can be a millionaire if you only work hard enough.
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 26 14:39:39
"what does thew new tax ideas do for you?"
he wants to double the standard deduction

so massive cuts for rich, lower cuts for the rest, yay dynasties, yay debt, keep pooling wealth to the top & make sure they keep it
Rugian
Member
Wed Apr 26 15:08:23
I'm confused. How can Trump be cutting his taxes if he doesn't pay any taxes anyway?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 26 15:27:32
i believe the zero tax speculation was back when he could carry his huge fake business losses forward year after year

if that 2005 return revealed awhile ago was real, 31 of his 36 million in taxes was from the alt min tax

& obviously the 'death' tax would substantially affect his poor children
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Apr 26 21:28:51

tw, I guess it is going over your head.

He has taken the individual deduction of $6000 plus to $12,000.

So he put $6000 in your pocket right off the bat, and you can still deduct your mortgage and charity donations.


(Numbers prox.)


When you are making a Million a year you can take advantage of the rich guy's deduction then. Until then you have not earned it.

This is a solid plan that is going to put a lot of money back into the economy.

BTW, the rich guys are not like Scrooge McDuck where they put their money into big piles and roll around in it for shits and giggles. They investment it which create more jobs.



tumbleweed
the wanderer
Wed Apr 26 21:48:03
"
He has taken the individual deduction of $6000 plus to $12,000.

So he put $6000 in your pocket right off the bat
"

that's not how taxes work, you mean $6,000 less of your income is taxable... while Trump's tax bill is cut by 85% just on the AMT
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Wed Apr 26 21:58:51

You are right. It has been quite awhile since I dealt with taxes. But still, that is a nice chunk of change in your pocket.

So, what was your bracket before? 25%? Less?




Isn't the top cut by 4% plus the loss of loopholes?

Hood
Member
Wed Apr 26 23:02:03
"This is a solid plan that is going to put a lot of money back into the economy."

Rich people savings accounts isn't the economy. The stock market isn't the economy.
Paramount
Member
Thu Apr 27 01:57:49
"This is a solid plan that is going to put a lot of money back into the economy."

Lol, does the Panama papers ring a bell?

The rich are moving all their moneys to tax havens, hiding them away.
Paramount
Member
Thu Apr 27 02:15:32
Yeah, keeping money in an account doesn't help the economy. If they spend all their moneys then it helps. But they are just saving billions of dollars on a pile. If they don't spend it or don't know what to do with all their moneys they should give it to the poor and the middle class so they can spend it and actually help the economy. It's better for you, for me, for everyone.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Thu Apr 27 05:02:09

Ignorance is running rampant in the ranks of the liberals once again.

hood
Member
Thu Apr 27 07:32:26
I don't think hot rod is allowed to use the word ignorant.
CrownRoyal
Member
Thu Apr 27 08:36:24
In case anyone forgot how tax increases in 1990s and tax cuts in 2000s turned out, Kansas had a more recent experience with it. Same tax cuts, advised by the same people that their retarded governor Brownback introduced in 2012. Now, several years later, here is the summary on tax cuts effect on the budget, employment and growth

----

Editorial: The lessons Trump should learn from Kansas’ experiment in tax reform

By The Kansas City Star editorial board
The White House has unveiled its massive tax-cut proposal. It strongly resembles the 2012 tax cut in Kansas, which did not turn out well.
Next week, Kansas lawmakers will once again try to figure out how to cover a massive shortfall in the state’s budget.

We hope President Donald Trump will be in the gallery, taking notes.

That’s because the president’s tax plan, unveiled by the White House Wednesday, strongly resembles the disastrous tax plan passed in Kansas in 2012.

Trump wants to consolidate individual tax brackets and lower the top rate. He would eliminate some deductions and, most crucially, dramatically reduce taxes for business owners, including millions of people who own businesses but pay taxes on their profits as individuals.

Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback’s 2012 tax reform blueprint was quite similar, and we know why. The same worn-out supply-side “experts” helped write both proposals.

Still, the president, the Congress and millions of Americans may be somewhat unfamiliar with the outcome of what Gov. Sam Brownback once called a “real live experiment” in tax policy.

No problem. We’re happy to offer some of the lessons we’ve learned first-hand over the last five years:

▪ The economy won’t grow at the rate you think. Brownback promised his tax cuts would provide a “shot of adrenaline” to the Kansas economy.

It never happened. Job growth in Kansas has lagged behind peer states, neighboring states and even some states that raised taxes.

A recently published academic paper suggests why: Kansans used the small business exemption to avoid taxes, not to add workers.

The governor and his allies blame slow growth on unanticipated slumps in the farming and energy sectors. That merely proves tax cuts are usually less significant than other macro-economic trends.

The American economy is changing dramatically. Health care jobs are up, while retail jobs have collapsed. Coal mining isn’t coming back.

Giving companies a huge tax break won’t change that.

▪ The deficit will increase. Remember when Republicans worried about the federal deficit? Good times.

Those worries have apparently vanished. That’s less important in D.C. than in Kansas — Washington can deficit spend, Kansas can’t — but, contra former Vice President Dick Cheney, deficits still matter.

And the White House can’t make that reality go away, no matter how many dynamic-scoring magic asterisks it uses. Kansas passed the biggest tax increase in state history in 2015 and is still $900 million short over the next two years.

▪ The business tax cuts will be unpopular. Kansas is one of the most Republican states in the nation, yet its GOP governor is a political outcast. Why?

The tax cut drama is one explanation. Kansans have grown tired of credit rating cuts, crowded schools, one-time transfers and budget crises.

But something else is at work. Kansans resent the fact that thousands of business owners pay no state income taxes at all, while working people do. In fact, those working people have seen taxes on food rise dramatically.

Trump’s huge business tax cuts, coupled with smaller reductions for individuals, will anger low- and middle-income Americans.

And ending the federal estate tax and the alternative minimum tax while eliminating federal deductions for health expenses and state and local taxes will make it worse.

We do not oppose tax reform. Paying federal taxes is too complicated and too distorted by tax breaks for special interests. Taxes at all levels should be simple, low, broad and fair.

But the president isn’t just proposing tax reform. He also wants a trickle-down tax cut for the wealthy. Kansans know how this story ends.

http://www...itorials/article146986734.html
delude
Member
Thu Apr 27 08:42:13
"Ignorance is running rampant in the ranks of the liberals once again. "

Says the one that believes Stock market = the US economy.
Sam Adams
Member
Thu Apr 27 08:55:22
This is probably trumps most retarded idea yet.
delude
Member
Thu Apr 27 10:13:33
It is up there. But, I am riding this wave and enjoying the show.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Apr 27 10:46:20
Still Confused About Trump's 1-Page Tax Plan? Goldman Explains It All

http://www...x-plan-goldman-explains-it-all
Paramount
Member
Thu Apr 27 11:32:36
The rich wants more. They have got to get more.
Paramount
Member
Thu Apr 27 11:52:18
The rich seems confident, though, that the people won't bring out the pitchforks.
swordtail
Anarchist Prime
Thu Apr 27 12:01:55
"that the people won't bring out the pitchforks."

they won't.
they're too busy worrying about the poor moderate rebels in syria and norh korea's ambitions to take over the world.
zavyx
Member
Thu Apr 27 12:15:48
OK, so cuts to income tax aren't such a bad idea, but its an even better idea if you simultaneously increase consumption or sales tax.

I don't know which economics text book you didn't read in college, but higher consumption tax and lower income taxes has been the obvious solution to americas problems than anything else anyone has suggested recently...

Who's Trumps economics adviser?

Does he know what he's talking about, or is he just another one of those hairless mutant chimps with a brain hard-wired like a supercomputer, sitting at an old Remington typewriter, with a cigar hanging out of his mouth sitting in the basement at the U.S fedral reserve.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Thu Apr 27 17:33:56

tumbleweed wants the rich to pay less in taxes than he does.

Hot Rod
Revved Up
Thu Apr 27 17:41:04
*-more
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Apr 27 17:55:09
everyone wants the rich to pay more than others in taxes

Trump had nearly $10 million in interest income on that 2005 return... did he work hard for that money?
tumbleweed
the wanderer
Thu Apr 27 18:02:25
and without the Alt Min Tax (that he wants to eliminate), he'd have made nearly double just in interest than he owed for the year in taxes

so like zero tax + free money
delude
Member
Fri Apr 28 16:17:47
"tumbleweed wants the rich to pay less in taxes than he does. "

Hot Rod wants ruin the economy.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 28 18:38:33

Hood - Rich people savings accounts isn't the economy.

What do you think the banks do with that savings account, lock the money in their vault for safe keeping? No, they lend it out to people who need a loan for whatever reason.



Hood - The stock market isn't the economy.

No, but when someone buys a stock that means someone is selling. The seller either spends it or reinvests it. Perhaps the may even buy a new issue.

The stock market is much closer to what you are trying to say, but it still misses the mark. The money is still out there.



"Money is like manure. It's not worth a thing unless it's spread around, encouraging young things to grow."

~Dolly Levi

kargen
Member
Fri Apr 28 18:54:11
No death tax is a great idea.

Also all for a flat tax though that isn't quite what President Trump is calling for.
Hood
Member
Fri Apr 28 18:55:00
"No, they lend it out to people who need a loan for whatever reason."

No, these days they gamble with it.

"when someone buys a stock that means someone is selling"

Right. But nothing is actually happening. That investment isn't giving the company new money; the company already got their money when they went IPO or release new stock. This would potentially stimulate the economy. But people shifting investment from random person A to random person B doesn't do shit.

"The money is still out there"

Sitting there, doing nothing.



"It's not worth a thing unless it's spread around, encouraging young things to grow."

Indeed. And the rich people who stockpile it aren't doing anything with it. It sits there, decaying. Investment isn't spending. Spending makes money useful. Investment just delays any use.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 28 19:05:12

Hood, then your contention is that this is a capitalist country without capital.


The Stock Market is a form of a savings account.

You put your money in a savings account and you receive interest.

You put money in the stock market and you get dividends.

Same difference.

Hood
Member
Fri Apr 28 19:11:56
Yes, and doing that to the extent that rich people do, instead of spending money, is a strain on the economy.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 28 19:20:31

How much did you ay for your car? Your house, Your yacht?

How many people work for you where you pay their wages

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. Sure they make more than the spend, but it's not all in the stock market.


Rich people take the risks, they deserve what the get except for the CEO that gets a $20 million bonus. hat money belongs to the stockholder.

You know who the stockholder is don't you? She is the little old lady from Nebraska that has her life savings in the stock market.

Hood
Member
Fri Apr 28 19:27:10
"You know who the stockholder is don't you? She is the little old lady from Nebraska that has her life savings in the stock market."

No, she isn't. The stockholders are other rich people.

"Rich people take the risks, they deserve what the get"

And people who work deserve to earn fair pay.


The point here is that giving the rich tax breaks will not put money into the economy. It will create more dead money, that just sits around invested. It will not increase the flow of money because for that to happen, it would have to be spent.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 28 19:33:38

"The point here is that giving the rich tax breaks will not put money into the economy."


Trump is taking away the tax breaks. i.e.: the loopholes.

Hood
Member
Fri Apr 28 20:18:32
"Trump is taking away the tax breaks. i.e.: the loopholes."

1. no, he's not taking away tax breaks.
2. this is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Fuck off.
Hood
Member
Fri Apr 28 20:22:14
Also, from swordtail's link:

"Ultimately, we expect that Congress will cut the corporate rate to perhaps 25%, and we would expect the tax rate on small business to be higher—quite possibly still aligned with the top individual tax rate."

Gotta love those "small business" republicans sticking it up the ass of those small businesses they pretend to support.
Hot Rod
Revved Up
Fri Apr 28 20:27:05

You have source for that or did you get it out of the commode after you took a dump?

chuck
Member
Mon May 01 22:34:44
Look ma, imma S-Corp!
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