Utopia Talk / Politics / OT- Designated Survivor

Aeros Member	Tue Dec 13 02:40:39 Holy fucking shit this show is amazing. The West Wing meets La Femme Nikita/Jason Bourne watch it.
Asgard Member	Tue Dec 13 02:55:07 "Designated Survivor is an American political drama television series created by David Guggenheim, and starring Kiefer Sutherland," Another "24"? fuck me.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 13 04:35:29 I've watched it from the first episode and it just gets better. I think the episode I liked best was when Sutherland arrested a governor for treason after he refused to follow a legitimate request from Washington to schedule elections for new representatives and he was going to secede. I posted about it here a couple of times but was ignored. This is really the best show on TV right now. The only one better is 'The Last Ship', but it is a Summer show and won't be back on till June.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Dec 13 08:27:29 i find it annoying (spoilery): the CIA has known the guy was involved for a long time (due to the bomb shelter he hid in) yet not continuing to not tell anyone... and that was before the kidnapping which still doesn't really affect the female agent (and whats the fathers end game there?) 'lets keep letting the clear threat see the president...'
Seb Member	Tue Dec 13 09:53:31 No, it's really, really bad. Kiefer Sutherland badly wanting to play President Bartlett, while the producers want to make homeland. Result is all over the place tonally and completely implausible.
obaminated Member	Tue Dec 13 10:43:26 Really seb, it's implausible?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 13 11:30:49 Seb, it is damned fine entertainment. It isn't real.
Seb Member	Tue Dec 13 11:52:20 Obaminated, Hot Rod: I mean within it's own premise. To the point people keep doing stupid things, and momentous stuff happens and is near instantly forgotten. Homeland, largely, didn't do that. The pacing is all wrong. A bio terror attack, arresting a sitting governor, race war and - oh yes, the murder of the entire political establishment has happened in the space of a week or so. You can be homeland, or you can be West Wing. A fusion of the too is jarring. Trying to use the pace and moral simplicity of 24 doesn't work. Especially as the liberal sensitivities of the president don't simply down the way the conservative ones do: the underlying rationale is more complex, so you end up with idiotic things like "no, I will not tollerate any collateral dammage and will inform the Algerian president of my air raid". First two episodes or so were good, but it went down hill quickly.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 13 13:37:20 I never watched Homeland so that is lost on me. If there was to be a wipeout of the government like episode one many events would be happening quickly and simutaniously.
Forwyn Member	Tue Dec 13 14:07:38 It's not that great. Too serialized, too many off the wall issues. I'll keep watching because it's moderately entertaining and my wife loves it. Still prefer House of Cards for political drama.
Seb Member	Tue Dec 13 14:38:16 HotRod: Yes, but that's sort of my point. They don't happen simultaneously. Huge, thorny, impossible problems happen, are resolved in an episode relatively easily, and then the next thing happens. And why did the far right nutjob poison the voting machines? Made no sense. The writers needed a threat that wasn't Islamic or the conspiracy.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 13 14:42:30 [tw]: "the CIA has known the guy was involved for a long time (due to the bomb shelter he hid in) yet not continuing to not tell anyone... and that was before the kidnapping which still doesn't really affect the female agent (and whats the fathers end game there?)" Yeah that's getting pretty stupid. I understand that they want to have all of the evidence before approaching the president, but there were some key moments where they should have at *least* gone to the president and been like, "hey, don't select this guy; things look suspicious." And even that moment where the FBI director sees the VP candidate in the oval office shouldn't have stopped him; he could have handled that situation much differently, like, "Mr. President this information is for your eyes only." or something :/ ..so at this point it's just become an obvious plot device, and they need to move past it. That T-Bone car accident was also a super obvious show of this... right when they showed Maggie Q driving to the White House I was like, "great, here comes the T-Bone surprise" ...it's been used in *a lot* of movies and shows — I'm trying to compile a list, actually :p ... [Seb]: "A bio terror attack, arresting a sitting governor, race war and - oh yes, the murder of the entire political establishment has happened in the space of a week or so." Not true; last week was episode 9, and in episode 7 they mentioned that a month had passed since the events of the pilot. Aside from the first two or three episodes which *were* the first day or two after the attack, the show has had multiple days pass per episode or multiple days pass between episodes: S1-E1: State of the Union occurs; stated date was early January; "January" was in the phone bill of the VP-candidate S1-E7: Near the episode start, Kirkman says, "All it took was a month in the White House"; Episode ends with Majid Nassar dying (stated date of his death was February 4th; 2 days before episode 8 begins with Nassar's funeral). FBI agent's son abducted February 5th (stated as being the night before February 6th) S1-E8: Stated date was February 6th (mentioned about 30seconds into the episode); on February 6th, the bio attack stated to have begun "in the last 24 hours" .. Anyways I think they've moved well into breaking their own sense of fiction, but not by the timeline. They've modeled their timeline pretty closely on the U.S. handling of 9/11 (like "confirming" who was responsible, shifting leadership, etc.). And given the starting premise (almost the entire government being killed), there's a necessary rush for elections, mass instability and power grabs, and an understandable need to move quickly — it's all uncharted territory, so irrationality makes sense and has historical backing. A month seems pretty reasonable, even if the *way* plot details have unfolded has shown bad writing at times. I'm still interested in the show, though I wish they weren't going for a season-to-season vibe and instead were doing a limited run type of thing.. like a planned 3-season show or something..
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 13 17:58:09 I am not watching any network shows. Maybe if it is on the air for several years and universally praised. Otherwise you know that networks can't match cable (or all the new original content makers like Netflix or amazon)
Seb Member	Tue Dec 13 18:03:34 I must admit I wasn't following in too much detail, I got the sense it was a week rather than a month. Yes, there are call backs, but generally issues seem "closed" - sequentially compartmentalised rather than generating a cascade of consequences that interact with others. Compare that to, say, Game of Thrones, House of Cards etc. (which have the virtue of being books and thus needing tighter plotting) and you get a sense of what I'm trying to convey. Like, a few of the governors are grumpy about locking up a sitting governor, but the idea that this event would be "past history" rather than a continued ongoing current event generating it's own continued political consequences seems utterly implausible. Wouldn't there be an ongoing court case against the president? Wouldn't other governors have put their foot down? Would whoever is governing (Michigan?) have simply fallen in line? I mean the national guard is in a weird position where you'd think they'd double down. The reason they want this kind of narrative structure is so kiefer's character can keep playing a sort of left wing messiah and hammer us over the head with "this is the right thing to do" - so we have the mad paranoid governor locking up muslims (really?) who needs to be locked up to get him to stop. It seems narrative overkill to cover the point they want to make, ratchets up the ante and then poof. Also, has the head of the FBI really not realised that he cannot possibly be given his kid back? Very bad writing, and the idea of making west wing meets 24 /homeland. I can't see it working. A slower pace is needed to let things unfold and consequences play out.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 20 22:12:39 "Yes, there are call backs, but generally issues seem "closed" - sequentially compartmentalised rather than generating a cascade of consequences that interact with others" Definitely :/ .. they have continuity, but episode-to-episode they have these major closure moments.. not sure if they'll bring those up again.. .. "Also, has the head of the FBI really not realised that he cannot possibly be given his kid back?" I suppose it's understandable if he thinks that these people will actually honor an agreement, but even then it still doesn't fit for someone in his position to be affected by that kind of threat... maybe he'll explain that he couldn't trust anyone except Maggie Q, even the president.. .. The last episode (S1-E10) was pretty neat! Nice cliffhanger, anyways. Even though the season was ordered as 22 episodes, apparently episode 10 was considered the midseason finale, so episode 11 won't air until March 8th. Lame :/
smart dude Member	Tue Dec 20 22:28:36 Yeah I watched the first few episodes. First two or so were good. Turned to shit real quick.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 20 22:34:55 Have any of you watched the Summer show 'The Last Ship'? If you can get ahold of the first season check it out. It is much better than 'Designated Survivor'. And Seb will like it because it is spread out with three or four episodes used to complete a storyline sometimes. They are not afraid to kill off major characters from time to time and sometimes when you think someone is going to be a major character they go their separate ways. It has a little of everything in it. Comedy, romance, gunfights, ship to ship fights and lots of drama and suspense and the characters are believable. Personally, I think it is the best TV show I have seen since the Original Star Trek was on. But, for now, I think Designated Survivor is pretty cool.
Pillz Member	Wed Dec 21 08:02:12 I watched a few episodes of the last ship. Easily one of the worst things I've seen in years...
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed Dec 21 08:07:15 ^^^^^^^^^ No Taste.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Mar 08 19:23:28 Designated Survivor returns tonight! (10EST/9CST.) Obligatory hype-up: - Will Nikita (Maggie Q) be shot a bunch of times for shooting the sniper (reflecting realism and confusion), or will the Secret Service suddenly be cool about it and tackle her instead (reflecting convenient writing)? - Was it the VP who was shot?? A plan to make him look heroic, thus enhancing the trust he's getting with the uninformed? - Will they steal from Homeland, where the sniper was just a distraction to start security protocols? - Will Emily Rhodes (Italia Ricci) accuse Aaron Shore (Adam Canto) of being a traitor -- breaking the trust between them -- only to find out that he's on the level -- only he's actually *not* on the level and he only *feigned* that he was insulted by her accusation?? ;D - Did the smoke monster eat the polar bear? - Will the writing go mainline CNN and find a way to insult Trump every chance it can find? ;p These questions and more to be answered... eventually
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Mar 09 00:30:15 @Designated Survivor S1-E11: "Warriors" Things amping up! :D Lots of closure in this episode.. I wonder if the market crash was just general anarchism or if the VP had a money-making scheme there.
Aeros Member	Thu Mar 09 10:01:02 Its looking at the VP and Catalan are just pawns in someone elses game. The reveal about Catalan was just the tip of the conspiracy. The Big Bad has yet to show itself.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Mar 09 11:16:31 Trues! I was surprised that they dropped Catalan so quickly; seemed like he was a head-hancho type
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Mar 11 16:23:40 awhile ago i assumed the VPs kid was taken hostage like with the FBI guy because i think his excuse for leaving before the bombing was his wife calling about his kid missing or being late or something but they're making him seem more evil now & haven't mentioned any of that lately so probably not...
Aeros Member	Sat Mar 11 16:36:46 I'm thinking he's a tortured Patriot who is hung up over his war crimes in Afghanistan as being manipulated hard core by his Wife who is probably fucking the big bad behind his back.
obaminated Member	Sat Mar 11 23:42:01 I haven't watched this show because it feels so limited. 24 was fun because we had a low level agent fighting against ridiculously big conspiracies and terrorists plots. I can't imagine a show having legs when the top dog, a president, is doing the same thing.
Aeros Member	Sat Mar 11 23:58:06 President Kirkman isn't really doing the investigating. That's being done by the supporting cast who are trying to save him before the Conspiracy kills him off.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Mar 15 23:58:38 @S1-E12: "End of the Beginning" Whoa! D: ... looks like they're shaking things up! It was a big move for the traitor group to drop their candidate, though I guess they had to do so after all that open talk. Also neat that Aaron got the congresswoman to divulge the VP info to him -- he managed to hide his surprise from her, but no telling yet if he was surprised about it being the VP under suspicion or surprised that their man had been exposed (the latter if Aaron is a traitor). If it's the former, then the congresswoman becomes more suspicious as a potential traitor (exposing the info to Aaron could be a manipulation; she might be cultivating distrust with Kirkman's peeps or something). Neat stuff!
Aeros Member	Thu Mar 16 13:58:25 Seems a bit of a wasted opportunity to drop the Vice President like that. The drama of having to deal with a snake in the grass could have netted a few more good Episodes. They are certainly moving quickly with the story though. Still really unclear who the bad guys are and what they want.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Mar 23 02:30:23 @S1-E13: "Backfire" ..kind of a transition episode; not much happening. They really sped past the immediate drama of the VP being shot... kind of a strange decision to skip some of the gravity of that. Interesting for Congresswoman Hookstraten to burn that bridge with Aaron so quickly. Seems like her move there was to get Aaron fired and/or force the president to make mistakes with the press (she seemed to want a coverup to go badly), but her face during his speech seemed to show that she wasn't happy with the outcome, maybe explaining part of that "Backfire" title (the president spun it in his favor and she'll probably be cut out of any secret intel in the future). And that presidential address sounded like an address to Trump or something.. like a call for transparency in the White House. They even tried to vilify Press Secretary Wright a little, pushing for some Spicer parallels maybe. .. the music during the helicopter take-off scene was pretty weird.. I guess the producers felt like they'd invested too much money in that shot to waste it. Should be some interesting stuff next episode!
The Children Member	Thu Mar 23 02:58:05 meh i watched first 2 episodes so far it doesnt trike me as "wow its good". the fuck u talkin about. watchin jack bauer in his old age, wasnt he supposed 2 be a badass. he looks so...underwhelmin in this. u can tell he gettin old.
Aeros Member	Thu Mar 23 10:57:07 "the music during the helicopter take-off scene was pretty weird" The vibe I got from that scene was that the role of President has fully claimed Kirkman. Before that moment he was trying to desperately cling to his old life. Instead his family gets taken away from him aboard a helicopter emblazoned with "United States of America" leaving him alone on the White House lawn. As for hookstraten, I don't think she's in on the conspiracy. Her motivations seem to be those of a standard DC political animal. The conspiracy is waaaaay too culty. Only "true believers" do murder/suicides to preserve the operation. Which also throws "evil corporations" theories out the window. Its looking more like "super patriots" a la Ted Bundy. They really love America, the constitution and freedom, and express their love for it by "saving" it from the corrupt and tyrannical Federal Government. I'm taking the outside bet that Seth Wright is the traitor. Its revealed today that "Wright" is not his actual name. He also comes across as super patriotic, and the way he interacted with his friends is exactly the same way a cultist disconnects.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 24 03:10:47 oo good theory! Wright would make sense for a lot of this. He definitely has had access. And yeah, Hookstraten may just be a cynical politician as opposed to a conspirator. In Monty Python witch test fashion, if she becomes a potential VP option again and suddenly dies, I guess it'll be clear that she was innocent ;D .. "The vibe I got from that scene was that the role of President has fully claimed Kirkman." That would make sense for his character, and they definitely did the setup for what it meant to him. Weird for me still was that the music was very majestic/celebratory and positive instead of somber. .. [The Children]: "meh i watched first 2 episodes so far it doesnt trike me as "wow its good"." I mean, it's not great or anything, but it's a fair popcorn show and has a fun premise (that "reset button" idea). :D ..it's walking on the edge, though.
The Children Member	Fri Mar 24 04:12:53 im at episode 6 now. it gets a little better but nottin WOW. another thing is, how accurate is this show. is there really something called designated survivor. and have the governors all really so much power while the president has barely any say. seems like the show, everyone talks to him like a small child while he is supposed 2 be the leading man. and i thought whitehouse is where they sleep and shit but never realized they had so much ppl walkin in there. i guess they work there so the president doesnt have 2 commute 2 work like the rest of peasants.
The Children Member	Sat Mar 25 05:51:57 i finsihed all episodes yesterday and i gotta say it kinda picks up a little. last 2 episodes were meh though. but the plot seems kinda crazy, and i mean crazy in a bad way. it just kinda goes nuts. i mean wtf she killed him and then shoots herself. wtf? like wtf with that astin guy mournin his child? i mean like wtf. anyway, any other series like this? kinda dry right now.
The Children Member	Sun Mar 26 08:06:26 started watchin westworld. this thing is a red dead redemption clone put in a tv show. anyway, cast is certainly impressive. AAA actors all over the place. i guess hollywood nowadays is filled with superheors movies and the actors not able 2 get roles are now doing shows and series. not a bad idea anyway since if it gets big like games of thrones, i heard like jon snow earns like 1 mill for 1 shitty episode even though hes got jackshit of actin skills. anyway, westworld certainly is an interestin idea but first few episodes was kinda boring. not really gettin it either. r they gettin self aware now or what and what will happen then. war? boring ass shit so far. walk around in a wild wild west, start a quest, except u do it in real life. this might be some 24th century stuff, i think this might go real just not like westworld. theres VR for that shit. thats how u gonna play games in the future, VR type machines man. no need 2 get out the door and shit.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Mar 30 03:15:43 "how accurate is this show. is there really something called designated survivor. and have the governors all really so much power while the president has barely any say." Designated survivors do get used in real life. And governors do have a lot of emergency discretion in their states, though it's difficult to say if a National Guard general would actually follow a governor's orders if the governor were overstepping like that.. not impossible, though! With 50 possible states, a crazy governor is bound to have a crazy general to use ;) .. "anyway, any other series like this?" Homeland, Nikita, and 24, maybe? Not sure .. @S1-E14: "Commander-in-Chief" Not bad! I'm not sure if I agree with Aaron's reasoning for leaving (the press would have to infer a lot about Aaron meeting with the FBI, and any of it could be re-spun, like they could say that he was helping, or it's classified or something), but okay. It makes sense if he really thought it could get out of hand. There was good character work in his departure scene, and the preview made it look like the congresswoman would try to hire him. With Aaron stepping down and the question about why Kirkman was selected as the survivor, I almost wonder if Kirkman was selected because Emily Rhodes is a sleeper agent and had infiltrated Kirkman's office years before it appeared relevant. Or maybe more simply: Kirkman could be the mastermind. That'd be fun.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Apr 06 03:35:03 @S1-E15: "One Hundred Days" That was some pretty gross incompetence by Atwood and Wells. [Their last?] suspect on her knees with her hands on her head and yet they let it fall apart... In reality Wells would have made the assisting arrest by cuffing her immediately after her hands were up. They tried to sell it with Atwood's emotional situation, but that was pretty thin — Wells had a number of options before and after Atwood's anger shots, but they weren't written. A little too convenient for the plot.. Also, why didn't we get to see the pizza? They can't just show two pizza boxes and not show the pizza. That's Game of Thrones level cruelty. Maybe they'll show it next week?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Apr 06 08:11:39 Pizza Hut or Papa John's?
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Apr 06 18:46:29 In the episode it was "Zino's Pizza" http://i.imgur.com/kUltPNt.png
The Children Member	Fri Apr 07 05:53:03 i watched those two episodes...im thinkin the series are going downhill as of right now. the story is gettin more and more unbelievable. anyway, seems like the nazis shut down putlocker and vodlocker??? know any substitutes?
The Children Member	Sun Apr 09 01:45:40 i sure miss my putlockers/ vodlockers. they took down that shit like flies swarmin in on fresh dogturd.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed Apr 12 22:01:02 It just got better.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Apr 13 01:55:08 @S1-E16: "Party Line" Yeah! Nice cliffhanger for this one. Still, does seem odd that the silo wouldn't have any guards. That was a lot of ordnance just left unattended (kind of reminiscent of images of GoT wildfire storage hallways, btw). I hope that turns out to be because the conspirators wanted it all found... or maybe they were tipped off and left? hmm. The episode spent a *lot* of time on the vote being passed. I hope they don't gravitate too much to making it into "West Wing"; even though the independent government fantasy story can be nice, I think the conspiracy should probably have more screen time than this.. And it looks like episode 18 is called "Lazarus", which makes me wonder if Catalan will turn out to be alive after all.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu Apr 13 02:01:10 "anyway, seems like the nazis shut down putlocker and vodlocker??? know any substitutes?" My normal sites have all died, but the one that The Powers that Be posted in the movie forum still populates: http://www.tvmuse.com/tv-shows/Designated-Survivor_43052/ They usually claim no availability, but under each episode you can unhide the user comments to get streaming links.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Apr 19 23:56:09 @S1-E17: "The Ninth Seat" Yay! Was right about Catalan/Lozano :p .. guess that was pretty obvious though. The "Pax Americana" peeps seem interesting, otherwise not much happening in this episode.
Cherub Cow Member	Thu May 04 00:48:10 @S1-E19: "Misalliance" Lol@ending :D Gotcha good, Maggie!! ;D -- wonder why the Pax Americana peeps thought it would be better to ship her off rather than just killing her outright (is Lozano an admirer?). It was already pretty flimsy writing that she was staying at a motel (peeps in deep missions usually don't go anywhere unsecured), so maybe the writers wanted her under threat but not dead yet. Atwood, meanwhile... ;p ... that was a nice surprise. Thought he would get the captive treatment too. Does at least look like he sent the information off before Lozano found him. Was there some forbidden romance brewing between Tyler Richmond and Alex Kirkman? Hope not! Though they do need to figure out how to make her more relevant.
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