Utopia Talk / Politics / Reactions to bible disguised as koran

Peter Walsh Member	Tue Dec 08 21:56:51 http://www...passages-Bible-told-Koran.html Pranksters film people's shocked reactions at reading violent passages from the Bible - after being told they are from the Koran * Dutch filmmakers Alexander Spoor wanted to test prejudice * Filmed people reading from a Bible disguised as a Koran * Passages ordered gay people to be killed and women's hands cut off * Interviewees were shocked to learn they were reading Christian text * Film has had more than 2.4 million views on YouTube Two Dutch filmmakers have recorded people’s horrified reactions to being read gruesome verses from the Bible - disguised as the Koran. Director Alexander Spoor said he carried out the experiment to put Christianity under the same scrutiny Islam has received since the Paris terror attacks last months. He took to the streets with presenter Sacha Harland to see how people reacted to passages, which they are led to believe are from the Bible, such as: 'I do not allow for a woman to teach. You will have to cut off her hand.' The film of their experiment has been viewed more than 2.4 million times since being posted on their YouTube channel Dit Is Normaal. At the beginning of the video, Sacha explains that recently Muslims have been accused of following a religion that has no place in Western culture. 'This made us wonder about Christianity, a religion that has influenced our culture greatly,' he says. The pair are seen looking through a copy of the Bible, and Alexander says: 'According to this entire book, the woman has to be submissive.' He explains that they then 'highlighted a couple of shocking verses that are in great contrast with our Western norms and values.' The pair took to the streets and read out their selected verses. One passage from Leviticus said: ‘If two men sleep with each other they will both have to be killed.' A woman is seen recoiling in shock as she is read the words: 'I do not allow for a woman to teach. You will have to cut off her hand. Do not forgive her.' Another passage threatened vengeance on anyone who disobeyed god. 'If you reject my commands and abhor my laws you will eat the flesh of your own sons and the flesh of your own daughters,' it said. A man is seen nodding and seems unsurprised to hear the passage: 'If two men sleep with each other they will both have to be killed.' The presenter then asks people what their initial thoughts were. ‘This sounds ridiculous,’ a young man in a baseball cap said. 'Well, I didn’t know that this kind of stuff was also in this book,' a woman with blonde hair added. 'Cutting off people’s hands, I mean apparently that’s just the way they are, but how could anyone believe in this? That’s unbelievable to me,’ another woman said. A young man who was interviewed alongside two friends said he thought that children would be affected by this kind of teaching. 'If you’ve been raised with this book and these kind of thoughts it’s going to influence the way you think,' he said. The woman who looked shocked by the passage on cutting off a woman's hand said: ‘To me this sounds like they want to oppress you and force you to believe what they believe.’ Sacha then asked people what the biggest differences between the Koran and the Bible were. 'Hearing this I would think the Quran is more aggressive especially with things like cutting off people’s hands,' one young man said. 'I think the Bible mostly has a lot of positive things in it,' a woman replied. 'The story in the Bible is told very differently,' one man insisted. Another agreed that the Bible was 'a lot less harsh and a bit more peaceful'. The interviewees went on to say what they thought of people who believed in these teachings. 'The world is changing and I think they should have to adapt to it,' a young woman said. A man added: 'Most of our people have experience the freedom to make their own choices and freedom of speech, and having that freedom allows you to think differently.' One woman said it bothered her that 'some people see these old writings as the absolute truth'. Sacha asked a group of friends: 'But then couldn’t we get rid of these books?' A female member of the group disagreed: 'Well they are really old so we can’t really do anything about them.' He then revealed the surprise, saying: 'These beautiful verses from the Koran are actually from the Bible. One shocked one man, laughed and said: 'What the f***?' 'Seriously?' a girl said. One man just laughed, too surprised to say anything. Another grimaced and said: ‘What the hell?’ 'Wow, I did not see that coming,' a woman replied. Sacha is asked: 'Are you actually for real?' An interviewee congratulated him, saying: 'Very well done, you really got me.' Another added: 'That is unbelievable. That is sick, that is really sick.' One woman expressed her shock, saying she never knew this kind of content was in the Bible. 'Of course I’ve heard Bible stories when I was young and I went to a Christian school, but I really had no idea this was in there,' she explained. 'It’s all just prejudice really, a man added. ‘I always try not to be prejudiced myself but apparently I already am. It’s just something you do unconsciously.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 08 23:21:37 Dec 5 http://www...hread=75567&time=1449367711524
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Dec 08 23:21:53 Dec 7 http://www...hread=75587&time=1449519839226
Hrothgar Member	Tue Dec 08 23:49:02 These kinds of things are to a large degree stupid because they are also to a large degree cherry picked for the reactions that meet the film makers desired reaction. I'm sure they left out any number of people who were like - "Hey man, that's not the Koran that's the bible" or "Hey man, that's the old testament, which isn't Christian beyond historical context to compare to the new 'love god, love they neighbor' teachings of Christ". It's no different than the late night shows with skits involving walking down the street talking to idiots for their funny answers. They of course cut out anyone that is competent.
pillz Member	Wed Dec 09 01:07:37 So youre saying that the old testament is just fluff? What denomination are you?
The Children Member	Wed Dec 09 01:27:15 what they only proved with this is that gayness is as old as the creation of da white men
Paramount Member	Wed Dec 09 04:17:39 " "Hey man, that's the old testament," So basically, to kill gays and to whip women is a Jewish idea?
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 05:26:09 killing gays is a Jewish thing. Whipping women probably predates the Jews though.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Dec 09 05:35:56 The old testament is without a doubt the most aweful of all religious texts. And amongst most denominations it is viewed as (his)stories and not laws to live after. That is the consensus amongst the majority of christian denominations. Further more even if you believe they are gods laws, there is very little in the way of support in Christianity to compel anyone to apply these laws and punish those that break it. Christianity relies on a messianic savior to come and make everything right, you have little in the way of support from scripture or faith to stone adulterers or behead infidels, because Jesus will see to it himself. The fact that many christians don't recognize it, is partially a testament to how unimportant they are. They publish and hand out the New Testament as a book of it's own.
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 05:38:30 The old testament should be mostly irrelevant to Christians, according to the supposed teachings of Christ. His lifes work was trying to convince the Jews they were completely wrong about Yahweh.
Seb Member	Wed Dec 09 07:07:43 Nim: All the homophobia on Christianity comes from the old testament. It's not at all present in the new testament. It's not as simple as saying the old stuff is all non canon.
werewolf dictator Member	Wed Dec 09 07:31:10 'It's not at all present in the new testament.' eg romans 1:21-32
The Children Member	Wed Dec 09 07:34:40 is it now safe 2 say that white males invented homosexuality
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 07:41:08 In East Asia, same-sex love has been referred to since the earliest recorded history. Homosexuality in China, known as the pleasures of the bitten peach, the cut sleeve, orthe southern custom, has been recorded since approximately 600 BCE. These euphemistic terms were used to describe behaviors, not identities (recently some fashionable young Chinese tend to euphemistically use the term "brokeback," 斷背duanbei to refer to homosexual men, from the success of director Ang Lee's filmBrokeback Mountain).[10] The relationships were marked by differences in age and social position. However, the instances of same-sex affection and sexual interactions described in the classical novel Dream of the Red Chamber seem as familiar to observers in the present, as do equivalent stories of romances between heterosexual people during the same period. Homosexuality in Japan, variously known as shudo or nanshoku, has been documented for over one thousand years and had some connections to the Buddhistmonastic life and the samurai tradition. This same-sex love culture gave rise to strong traditions of painting and literature documenting and celebrating such relationships. Similarly, in Thailand, Kathoey, or "ladyboys," have been a feature of Thai society for many centuries, and Thai kings had male as well as female lovers. While Kathoey may encompass simple effeminacy or transvestism, it most commonly is treated in Thai culture as a third gender. They are generally accepted by society, and Thailand has never had legal prohibitions against homosexuality or homosexual behavior.
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 07:41:51 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality
The Children Member	Wed Dec 09 07:56:47 600 bc aint shit. the greeks were going gay 2000 years before christ! u peoplez practically invented rainbowness
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 08:00:40 Yes, I know you fear the gays because you dont want to be caught longing for them
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Dec 09 08:14:14 As referenced you are wrong seb. The support for homophobia is there in the NT, but it is much weaker than say in Islam.
The Children Member	Wed Dec 09 08:19:01 chulu = closet fag?
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 08:21:33 Followed by projection. you must really be embarrased aboit your love of cock.
Aeros Member	Wed Dec 09 08:29:52 The Old Testament primarily exists to teach about how fucked up we were before Jesus. There are some more hard core Christians that also try and practice the Mosaic law of ancient Israel, but in general Mosaic law is not taken as seriously as say, the 10 commandments. Mosaic law in Leviticus incidentally is where you find all the "stone women", "kill the infidel" stuff. Personally, I don't even think its divinely inspired at all. Its just the civil and criminal code of the Kingdom of Israel that over a millenia or two somehow found its way into religious text. Kinda like how some people in the USA are starting to view the Constitution as divine inspiration. People have a tendency to deify useful things, and laws are useful in their own way.
The Children Member	Wed Dec 09 08:33:07 "Followed by projection. you must really be embarrased aboit your love of cock. " >> i am a worshipper of da female race. females do not have cocks unless they one of those transgnder freaks from ur country or one of them thai boys if u know what i mean.
State Department Member	Wed Dec 09 09:48:45 And how many Christians are blowing up planes and flying them into buildings because of what's in the Old Testament?
pillz Member	Wed Dec 09 10:04:11 "600 bc aint shit. the greeks were going gay 2000 years before christ!" No evidence for homosexuality or pederasty in bronze age Greece except for the myth of Zeus and Ganymede and the very ambiguous but non-sexual relationship between Patroclus and Achilles. "Personally, I don't even think its divinely inspired at all. Its just the civil and criminal code of the Kingdom of Israel that over a millenia or two somehow found its way into religious text. " Over a few (500) years, you mean. I'll never wrap my head around Abrahamic religions.
jergul large member	Wed Dec 09 10:27:45 The bible is second only to the Quran as a Muslim holy book, so showing horrible things in the bible as an influence to radical islam is of course completely relevant. It also shows that the problem is not aged books with outlandish ideas, the problem is the people using such books to justify their own contemporary agenda.
Paramount Member	Wed Dec 09 11:48:51 "And how many Christians are blowing up planes and flying them into buildings because of what's in the Old Testament?" Once Christians will start to feel threatened they will.
Paramount Member	Wed Dec 09 11:50:11 Just look at how some Christians in the US feels that their religion is being threatened by abortion clinics. So they blow them up or massacre people because of it.
Nekran Member	Wed Dec 09 11:55:16 Jesus states on several occasions in the NT that the laws of the OT still stand.
werewolf dictator Member	Wed Dec 09 12:59:03 law [torah] has broad range of meanings and is not equivalent to only talking of legal code of punishment x for punishment y.. it can mean pentateuch or entirety of scriptures [eg including non legalistic prophets] jesus says he is not abolishing law but fulfilling it.. how would that even make sense if speaking of legal code.. how would a person 'fulfill' united states law for instance.. possibly by fulfilling he is making inferior teachings complete [in almost b'hai evolutionary way].. including improving draconian lex talionis [explicitly mentioning moses's 'eye for eye and tooth for tooth'] with more evolved ideas ['turn the other cheek'].. and not stoning adulterer or possibly [in pauline interpretation] the legalistic law had been there to show all had sinned and all deserved death.. and it is only through divine sacrifice and grace that they are given eternal life
werewolf dictator Member	Wed Dec 09 13:00:44 then we have peter figuring out it is okay to eat pork etc
werewolf dictator Member	Wed Dec 09 13:02:46 besides scriptures also oral law
Nekran Member	Wed Dec 09 13:03:29 "how would that even make sense" Pretty much none of any religion does. Also you're just talking one quote there. As I said, he says it on several occasions and in different ways. And then constantly contradicts himself. That's because none of it makes much sense and was constantly changed throughout the ages to boot.
werewolf dictator Member	Wed Dec 09 13:15:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Wed Dec 09 13:18:23 'Jesus states on several occasions in the NT that the laws of the OT still stand' He also goes directly against them on several occasions.
werewolf dictator Member	Wed Dec 09 13:21:18 Meaning and names The word "Torah" in Hebrew is derived from the root ירה, which in the hif'il conjugation means "to guide/teach" (cf. Lev 10:11). The meaning of the word is therefore "teaching", "doctrine", or "instruction"; the commonly accepted "law" gives a wrong impression.[10] Other translational contexts in the English language include custom, theory, guidance,[11] or system.[12]
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Dec 09 15:41:15 The fact that the bible is so contradictory is also a saving grace, allowing for picking and choosing. Islam and the Koran, not so much. The doctrines and ideas are very straight forward. The contemporary "agenda" of spreading gods law by the sword, is the original agenda. It never went away, read some history and you will see that from the conquest of Muhammed, the Fitnas and up until ISIS, there are no surprises for those familiar with the texts and doctrines. There are straigth paths from belief to action.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Dec 09 15:48:13 It kind does not matter if us atheist point out that Jesus said what ever in the Bible, the fact remains that the OT is not central to Christian faith as established by the churches and Christians around the world. Christian do not believe in stoning adulteres for instance, if you ask questions about Islam from muslims you will find huge support independant of culture and geography.
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Wed Dec 09 15:49:17 Not to say that cultures and geography do not matter, they do.
smart dude Member	Wed Dec 09 18:29:51 "All the homophobia on Christianity comes from the old testament. It's not at all present in the new testament." Once again Seb is wrong. Is it safe to assume generally that you are speaking of things you know nothing about? In that smug way, too.
smart dude Member	Sat Dec 12 00:35:59 ttt, interested in Seb's response. Do you just make things up? I mean it, seriously. Are you literally just making things up? Or are you just confused? Like, did you read the NT carefully and simply forget what it says, or are you just making weird assumptions?
smart dude Member	Sun Dec 13 14:01:05 Ttt
smart dude Member	Sun Dec 13 15:35:43 "Not at all present" Just like Hot Rod. Running cold after proven to be wrong.
smart dude Member	Tue Dec 15 07:51:35 Ttt
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