Utopia Talk / Politics / $18 Trillion and Counting.

Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 02 11:19:21 http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Obama called Bush's $5 Trillion increase over 8 years unAmerican. What does $8 Trillion in less than 6 years make him?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 02 11:22:29 Take the last image from this site and add 17 more images on top of it. http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 11:22:52 "What does $8 Trillion in less than 6 years make him? " It makes him the guy who inherited a $1.2 trillion budget defict from George Bush, been in the office for 6 years and presided over lowering it from $1.2 trillion to about $450 billion. Thats is a budget defict reduction unseen since WWII, iirc. But in the meanwhile the debt grew. Thank you, W and your Great Recession.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 11:25:26 http://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3ZuhlBCMAE5opt.jpg:large High five, Rod!
Dakyron Member	Tue Dec 02 11:47:02 $450B is still unacceptable. Just because Bush was horrible doesn't mean that Obama is not bad. He inherited a bad situation, but he has done little other than wait for the economy to get better.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 11:53:55 "$450B is still unacceptable." It is not $450B, it is $450B from $1.2T, this is quite acceptable in a 6 year span. More than acceptable actually, historically speaking. Thats is, if we assign spending and revenues to presidents " he has done little other than wait for the economy to get better. ' Growing economy and revenues is the only way to cut budget deficit when you are in economic downturn.
Dakyron Member	Tue Dec 02 11:57:03 "It is not $450B, it is $450B from $1.2T, this is quite acceptable in a 6 year span. More than acceptable actually, historically speaking. Thats is, if we assign spending and revenues to presidents " Did Obama do anything or did tax receipts just increase a bunch? I know there was the sequester, but that only limited spending increases. Not a good idea to slash spending in a recession, but once out of the recession the need to dial it back exists. Obama has shown no interest in doing so. "Growing economy and revenues is the only way to cut budget deficit when you are in economic downturn." We havent been in a downturn in several years. When can we stop using the 2008 recession as an excuse for government spending? 6 years not enough? 10 years? What about 2045, will we still be claiming we are in housing recession and need to keep spending up interest rates near zero?
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 11:57:54 also, denominate it in terms of GDP%, real $ are misleading. Anything close to 2.5% of GDP is ok, you can grow by an achievable 3% a year and shrink your debt (with current interest rates)
Dakyron Member	Tue Dec 02 12:02:32 Until the next cyclical recession, then you are back into debt. You need long term plans, average out GDP growth over 20 years, and set 1/2% point below that as maximum debt.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:05:08 "Did Obama do anything or did tax receipts just increase a bunch?" Well, why do we even discuss the president then? He did end most of 2001 and 2003 tax cuts thereby increasing receipts. "Not a good idea to slash spending in a recession, but once out of the recession the need to dial it back exists. Obama has shown no interest in doing so. " Slowest federal spending growth in decades http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/slowest-spending.png ". When can we stop using the 2008 recession as an excuse for government spending? " What spending? This is the summary of federal, state and local spending
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:05:25 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
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:05:34 damn
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:06:48 http://ret...mages/gov-spending-decades.png
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:09:39 "You need long term plans, average out GDP growth over 20 years, and set 1/2% point below that as maximum debt." I don't know who would disagree but thats politically impossible. And it wouldn't be right, you can't make plans for the next Congress and the next one. They'll just change them.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Dec 02 12:24:03 You even refuse to take responsibility for your fuck ups too I see.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:26:43 I'm all about taking responsibility
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Dec 02 12:54:51 the R's own congress next year so they can fix it
pillz Member	Tue Dec 02 12:54:54 DOW Jones 17,000 and we're saying this is a good thing? It's just going to crash again, and probably worse.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:58:00 "and we're saying this is a good thing? It's just going to crash again, and probably worse." Come on, don't be retarded. Is it going to crash? Yes. Is it better when DOW is lower, considering the stocks people and pension funds owe? Again, don't be retarded
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 12:58:20 *own
Dakyron Member	Tue Dec 02 14:18:24 You keep pointing to slow spending growth. I admit, Obama is not as bad as recent presidents, but he is still bad. Thanks for listening.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Dec 02 14:28:28 Well, good luck finding a "good" president then. You got old people, so entitlements are untouchable, you got republicans so military and security spending is untouchable and you got dems so Medicaid and other low income programs are untouchable. Moreover, you got a bicameral Congress, with a filibuster, and another mini-Congress in Supreme Court, so the president is almost irrelevant, unless his party gets both chambers and five SC justices. At the end, slow spending growth, accompanied by the acceptable economic growth is the best option out there.
Hrothgar Member	Tue Dec 02 14:35:11 Consider this: In the case the economy stays strong and taxes are raised in just the right places for just the right amount and we somehow end up with a 1 trillion dollar per year surplus... it will still take close to 20 years to pay off the debt if those good times continue for decades.
zavyx Member	Wed Dec 03 23:37:58 debt doesn't matter anymore spend up while the goings good, or the going will just get worse. Like I said 4 years ago, let the dust settle, then pour on the infrastructure investment: and thats exactly the plan now after the recent G20 conference. It doesn't matter who prints it now, as long as its spent on infrastructure, and lent out at either 0% or even 1% interest, then the total debt level is sustainable for over 100 years. You know that England is about to finish paying off its world war 1 debt. I think they borrowed 1.9 billion, and its cost them a total of over 5 billions to pay it back with interest. My city still hasn't finished paying off the load that payed for all the sewerage pipes that were constructed 40 years ago.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Wed Dec 03 23:46:12 I would not be surprised if the plan is to pay off the debt with highly inflated fiat money. Possibly even hyper-inflated fiat money.
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