Utopia Talk - Politics - The Devil Made Me Do It

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Utopia Talk / Politics / The Devil Made Me Do It

Hot Rod
Revved Up Sun Feb 16 12:35:18

Pa. woman admits Craigslist killing in interview
Feb 16th 2014 8:25AM

SUNBURY, Pa. (AP) - A Pennsylvania woman charged along with her newlywed husband in the murder of a man they met through Craigslist admitted to the slaying in a jailhouse interview with a newspaper and said she has killed more than 20 others across the country, claims police said they are investigating.

In an interview with the Daily Item in Sunbury, Pa., 19-year-old Miranda Barbour said she wants to plead guilty to killing Troy LaFerrara in November. She also said in the interview that she has killed at least 22 other people from Alaska to North Carolina in the last six years as part of her involvement in a satanic cult.

"I feel it is time to get all of this out. I don't care if people believe me. I just want to get it out," Barbour told the newspaper for a story published Saturday night (http://bit.ly/1f7fvOH).

Sunbury police Chief Steve Mazzeo told the newspaper that investigators have been in contact with the FBI and law enforcement in several other states.

"From information we gathered and from information gathered from her interview we are seriously concerned and have been in contact with the proper authorities," Mazzeo said.

Lawyers for the couple did not immediately return messages from The Associated Press left at their offices Saturday night. An FBI spokesman referred questions to its Philly office, but an email message wasn't immediately returned.

Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against Barbour and her husband, 22-year-old Elytte Barbour. Authorities said Miranda Barbour, a petite woman with long brown hair, told investigators she met the 6-foot-2, 278-pound victim after he responded to her Craigslist ad offering companionship for money.

Police allege in court papers that Elytte Barbour told investigators they committed the crime because they wanted to kill someone together. The couple, who were married in North Carolina and moved to Pennsylvania about three weeks before the crime, told police Miranda Barbour stabbed LaFerrara in the front seat of her car while her husband held a cord around his neck.

She said in the interview that she doesn't want to get out of jail and that she would kill again if she were released.

Miranda Barbour offered little detail on the murders she claimed to have participated in in Alaska, Texas, North Carolina and California. She claims she joined a satanic cult in Alaska when she was 13 before moving to North Carolina. Online records for the woman that the newspaper identified as Barbour's mother show her as having lived in both Alaska and North Carolina.

Last week, a judge granted a lawyer's request to have a forensic psychiatrist evaluate Miranda Barbour. The judge earlier approved a psychiatrist to evaluate Elytte Barbour.

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/02/16/pa-woman-admits-craigslist-killing-in-interview/20831291/?icid=maing-grid7|maing8|dl4|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D443427

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 05:18:08

I thought sure this gory story would attract your attention.

Rugian
Member Mon Feb 17 09:51:27
What is there to say? The anti-death penalty people might whine about how it's somehow an injustice to put down this piece of shit, but otherwise there's not much to comment on.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 10:02:41
She really has misunderstood satanism.

Satanism is based on the concept of man as a egoistic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as its measure, and reason as his only absolute.

Rugian
Member Mon Feb 17 10:06:33
I thought Norwegian satanism consisted of loving black metal music and setting fire to historic church buildings. Although I will agree that she could have just practiced her faith by banging every man in sight.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 10:11:05

Rugian, jergul is just spouting more lies about Objectivism. A subject he knows absolutely nothing about.

Rugian
Member Mon Feb 17 10:13:01
Fuck me, I totally missed that. jergul you clever bastard.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 10:15:21
I was merely expressing my opinion on what rests at the core of Satanism HR.

I would refer you to the Satanist bible for details. I think you would find it quite the source of inspiration.

Ruggy
Egoism (doing what you like) within the constraints of not harming others without their concent is at the core of Satanism.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 10:16:17
Ruggy
Why thank you buddy :)

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 11:03:05

As I said, he knows absolutely nothing about Objectivism.

TJ
Member Mon Feb 17 11:56:27
I have absolutely no difficulty with Ayn Rand's factuality in the economical message. The correction is rather problematic. Her book Atlas Shrugged wasn't far behind in sales from the Bible.

They tell all the problems with an equal end. The major problem here is force and how it should or not be enforced in a modern world. One is only as good as the ability to understand reality and not just how it should be. Murphy's Law

I'd say the murderess is being objective and should get what she's is begging for in the request.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 13:30:22
Hot Rod
The Satanic bible (first published in 1969) is heavily influenced by Ayn Rand. Hence my suggesting you seek guidance in its writings.

I think you will fine more contradictions to Rand's teachings in Atlas Shrugged than you will in the Satanic bible.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 15:54:01

jergul - The Satanic bible (first published in 1969) is heavily influenced by Ayn Rand.

And it was probably written by someone like you with the sole purpose of trying to negate Rand's writings.

Hence, it is trash and not worth wasting time on. Too bad you are not able to figure that out.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 16:37:47
Neither point would stand to reason. Which ultimately marks you as a failed student of Rand. Reason being the only absolute of that philosophy.

An honest and careful person would simply acknowledge that Satanism imposes religious trappings on core Randian principles.

Do what is best for you, but do not initiate harm on others unless they expressly permit you to harm them.

The inherent egoism and focus on contractual obligations are shared traits.

You really should check out the writings for inspiration.

TJ
Member Mon Feb 17 16:43:20
LaVey(writer of the Satanic Bible) developed his philosophy though a number of writers. Rand was only one, but a very significant one she was for his professed philosophy. That is not to negate Rand's writing, but to understand how she influenced the development of his philosophy. Jerhul seems to have a pretty good grip even if not a complete understanding of the connections. I'd need to leave that to his own devises and explanation.

One thing for certain is that there is nothing bad about understanding a background that fortifies a foundation. The twists and turns are invaluable when forming a foundation of existence.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 16:53:33

"Do what is best for you, but do not initiate harm on others unless they expressly permit you to harm them."

And that is the core belief of Satan as he is presented in the bible? I hardly think that Satan is concerned with the welfare of others or whether they give permission to be harmed.

The same could be said that Atlas Shrugged represents a valid critique of American Liberalism.

No thanks, I have no use for your trash.

What you people do not understand is that her writings represent her view of the perfect society. I doubt she expects anyone to ever live up to the perfection she presents and especially not society.

It is like any other morality, it is to be striven for, but realistically will never be achieved. Especially by society as a whole.

TJ
Member Mon Feb 17 17:03:11
It is perfectly understood that her writings form an idea of a perfect society and they encourage followers to be dedicated toward that end. No problem with understanding.

Levay did the same. It is perfectly understood. If we only lived in a perfect society we'd be the heaven of our imagination. Unfortunately we aren't and won't be in this life and as far as we know it is the only one we live.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 18:12:31
Hot Rod
Satan as a religious figure held freely entered contract obligations in much higher regard than you ever will. You should in fact aspire to his level of dedication in that regard. Lacking free will, he was also compelled to have humans agree to his bidding through the expression of their own free will. So no harm without consent.

I was however speaking of Satanism as formulated by Levay. Which does have religious trappings, but otherwise shares the same core values as objectionism.

An honest informed person would tend to view Satanism as a branch of objectionism and recognize Levay as one of the more important contributors in developing Rand's ideas.

And I don't think anyone has any problem grasping a philosophical ideal state as opposed to a practical world view.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 18:18:27

"he was also compelled to have humans agree to his bidding through the expression of their own free will. So no harm without consent."

Yes, and he certainly made perfectly clear all of the evil ramifications that would befall his victims didn't he.

"An honest informed person would tend to view Satanism as a branch of objectionism and recognize Levay as one of the more important contributors in developing Rand's ideas."

If you promote it, I want nothing to do with it.

I understand the pros sand cons of Objectivism far better than you ever will.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 18:19:56

And since you are totally ignorant of Objectivism I have no desire to discuss it with you.

Bye.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 18:26:27
Hot Rod
I think you know I am neither a fan of Rand, nor by extension of Levay. So promoting is a wrong word. It being more that I would encourage you to seek inspiration in his writings.

Contracts always assume due diligence. It does not matter if the contract is freely entered with the devil or indeed any other libertarian. There is no obligation to outline any and all ramifications following from a contract.

I am pretty sure I understand the failing and strengths of Objectivism quite well. Starting with the fundamental dichotomy stemming from Locke's axiomatic "fruits of labour"

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 18:28:35
Hot Rod
Anyone reading this or any other thread on the topic knows I am at least highly informed about Rand's philosophy, as indeed I am about her biography.

Claiming otherwise makes you seem ignorant, not me.

jergul
large member Mon Feb 17 19:30:02
"and reason as his only absolute."

Your cut and run from a perfectly reasonable discussion using a very unreasonable excuse = fail at Objectivism HR.

You can abandon your principles so easily?

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 19:50:14

Nothing about you is reasonable. You are a communist.

Renzo Marquez
Member Mon Feb 17 19:52:54
He's not a pedophile though. Advantage jergul.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Mon Feb 17 20:03:02

Yes he is and so are you pervert.

jergul
large member Tue Feb 18 00:21:11
Ready to hold reason in higher regard today Hot Rod?

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Feb 18 04:47:25

Are you?

jergul
large member Tue Feb 18 05:08:45
Sure. Feel free to point out any of my statements you might find lacking in reason.

It might be quite the challenge. I am quite adept at consistent internal logic.

I can help you out a little. Your main issue here is caused by being steadfast to guilt by association. IF Satanism can be associated with Objectivism, then Objectivism is Satanism.

This is untrue as it is a logical fallacy (all crows are black, crows are birds, therefore all birds are black).

You should actually not have any problems with Satanism being a form of Objectivism. Particularly as you have clearly pointed out you are an Atheist, so Satanisms religious trappings are of supreme disinterest to you.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Feb 18 07:25:25

"Sure. Feel free to point out any of my statements you might find lacking in reason."

All of them unless you have an independent reliable source.

I no more believe in Satanism than I do God, though obviously you do.

jergul
large member Tue Feb 18 08:35:04
Your defence is then that you are incapable of reason and need an echo box to confirm to you what you already think you know.

At least you remain steadfast in your stupidity Hot Rod, though an insult to libertarianism and Objectivism.

But that sort of goes without saying. They are not systems for the meek and weak of heart and mind.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Feb 18 12:38:39

No, my defense is you are a liar until you are able to back up your claims.

I suspect that will be sometime between never and eternity.

jergul
large member Tue Feb 18 12:52:40
Nah, I got it right.

You lack the ability to reason. Which is a huge flaw for any Objectivist.

You would do better with virtually any other philosophy.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Feb 18 13:10:50

Link please.

jergul
large member Tue Feb 18 13:18:53
http://www...hread=66679&time=1392749737061

There you go. Pay particular attention to HR's posts demonstrating a clear inability to reason.

Hot Rod
Revved Up Tue Feb 18 16:48:47

I see nothing wrong with my logic or my conclusions.

jergul
large member Tue Feb 18 17:30:43
You have not applied logic or reached any any intellectually meaningful conclusions.

You have simply expressed your opinion. As you stated numerous times.

show deleted posts

Hot Rod Revved Up	Sun Feb 16 12:35:18 Pa. woman admits Craigslist killing in interview Feb 16th 2014 8:25AM SUNBURY, Pa. (AP) - A Pennsylvania woman charged along with her newlywed husband in the murder of a man they met through Craigslist admitted to the slaying in a jailhouse interview with a newspaper and said she has killed more than 20 others across the country, claims police said they are investigating. In an interview with the Daily Item in Sunbury, Pa., 19-year-old Miranda Barbour said she wants to plead guilty to killing Troy LaFerrara in November. She also said in the interview that she has killed at least 22 other people from Alaska to North Carolina in the last six years as part of her involvement in a satanic cult. "I feel it is time to get all of this out. I don't care if people believe me. I just want to get it out," Barbour told the newspaper for a story published Saturday night (http://bit.ly/1f7fvOH). Sunbury police Chief Steve Mazzeo told the newspaper that investigators have been in contact with the FBI and law enforcement in several other states. "From information we gathered and from information gathered from her interview we are seriously concerned and have been in contact with the proper authorities," Mazzeo said. Lawyers for the couple did not immediately return messages from The Associated Press left at their offices Saturday night. An FBI spokesman referred questions to its Philly office, but an email message wasn't immediately returned. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against Barbour and her husband, 22-year-old Elytte Barbour. Authorities said Miranda Barbour, a petite woman with long brown hair, told investigators she met the 6-foot-2, 278-pound victim after he responded to her Craigslist ad offering companionship for money. Police allege in court papers that Elytte Barbour told investigators they committed the crime because they wanted to kill someone together. The couple, who were married in North Carolina and moved to Pennsylvania about three weeks before the crime, told police Miranda Barbour stabbed LaFerrara in the front seat of her car while her husband held a cord around his neck. She said in the interview that she doesn't want to get out of jail and that she would kill again if she were released. Miranda Barbour offered little detail on the murders she claimed to have participated in in Alaska, Texas, North Carolina and California. She claims she joined a satanic cult in Alaska when she was 13 before moving to North Carolina. Online records for the woman that the newspaper identified as Barbour's mother show her as having lived in both Alaska and North Carolina. Last week, a judge granted a lawyer's request to have a forensic psychiatrist evaluate Miranda Barbour. The judge earlier approved a psychiatrist to evaluate Elytte Barbour. http://www.aol.com/article/2014/02/16/pa-woman-admits-craigslist-killing-in-interview/20831291/?icid=maing-grid7\|maing8\|dl4\|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D443427
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 05:18:08 I thought sure this gory story would attract your attention.
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 09:51:27 What is there to say? The anti-death penalty people might whine about how it's somehow an injustice to put down this piece of shit, but otherwise there's not much to comment on.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 10:02:41 She really has misunderstood satanism. Satanism is based on the concept of man as a egoistic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as its measure, and reason as his only absolute.
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 10:06:33 I thought Norwegian satanism consisted of loving black metal music and setting fire to historic church buildings. Although I will agree that she could have just practiced her faith by banging every man in sight.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 10:11:05 Rugian, jergul is just spouting more lies about Objectivism. A subject he knows absolutely nothing about.
Rugian Member	Mon Feb 17 10:13:01 Fuck me, I totally missed that. jergul you clever bastard.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 10:15:21 I was merely expressing my opinion on what rests at the core of Satanism HR. I would refer you to the Satanist bible for details. I think you would find it quite the source of inspiration. Ruggy Egoism (doing what you like) within the constraints of not harming others without their concent is at the core of Satanism.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 10:16:17 Ruggy Why thank you buddy :)
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 11:03:05 As I said, he knows absolutely nothing about Objectivism.
TJ Member	Mon Feb 17 11:56:27 I have absolutely no difficulty with Ayn Rand's factuality in the economical message. The correction is rather problematic. Her book Atlas Shrugged wasn't far behind in sales from the Bible. They tell all the problems with an equal end. The major problem here is force and how it should or not be enforced in a modern world. One is only as good as the ability to understand reality and not just how it should be. Murphy's Law I'd say the murderess is being objective and should get what she's is begging for in the request.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 13:30:22 Hot Rod The Satanic bible (first published in 1969) is heavily influenced by Ayn Rand. Hence my suggesting you seek guidance in its writings. I think you will fine more contradictions to Rand's teachings in Atlas Shrugged than you will in the Satanic bible.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 15:54:01 jergul - The Satanic bible (first published in 1969) is heavily influenced by Ayn Rand. And it was probably written by someone like you with the sole purpose of trying to negate Rand's writings. Hence, it is trash and not worth wasting time on. Too bad you are not able to figure that out.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 16:37:47 Neither point would stand to reason. Which ultimately marks you as a failed student of Rand. Reason being the only absolute of that philosophy. An honest and careful person would simply acknowledge that Satanism imposes religious trappings on core Randian principles. Do what is best for you, but do not initiate harm on others unless they expressly permit you to harm them. The inherent egoism and focus on contractual obligations are shared traits. You really should check out the writings for inspiration.
TJ Member	Mon Feb 17 16:43:20 LaVey(writer of the Satanic Bible) developed his philosophy though a number of writers. Rand was only one, but a very significant one she was for his professed philosophy. That is not to negate Rand's writing, but to understand how she influenced the development of his philosophy. Jerhul seems to have a pretty good grip even if not a complete understanding of the connections. I'd need to leave that to his own devises and explanation. One thing for certain is that there is nothing bad about understanding a background that fortifies a foundation. The twists and turns are invaluable when forming a foundation of existence.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 16:53:33 "Do what is best for you, but do not initiate harm on others unless they expressly permit you to harm them." And that is the core belief of Satan as he is presented in the bible? I hardly think that Satan is concerned with the welfare of others or whether they give permission to be harmed. The same could be said that Atlas Shrugged represents a valid critique of American Liberalism. No thanks, I have no use for your trash. What you people do not understand is that her writings represent her view of the perfect society. I doubt she expects anyone to ever live up to the perfection she presents and especially not society. It is like any other morality, it is to be striven for, but realistically will never be achieved. Especially by society as a whole.
TJ Member	Mon Feb 17 17:03:11 It is perfectly understood that her writings form an idea of a perfect society and they encourage followers to be dedicated toward that end. No problem with understanding. Levay did the same. It is perfectly understood. If we only lived in a perfect society we'd be the heaven of our imagination. Unfortunately we aren't and won't be in this life and as far as we know it is the only one we live.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 18:12:31 Hot Rod Satan as a religious figure held freely entered contract obligations in much higher regard than you ever will. You should in fact aspire to his level of dedication in that regard. Lacking free will, he was also compelled to have humans agree to his bidding through the expression of their own free will. So no harm without consent. I was however speaking of Satanism as formulated by Levay. Which does have religious trappings, but otherwise shares the same core values as objectionism. An honest informed person would tend to view Satanism as a branch of objectionism and recognize Levay as one of the more important contributors in developing Rand's ideas. And I don't think anyone has any problem grasping a philosophical ideal state as opposed to a practical world view.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 18:18:27 "he was also compelled to have humans agree to his bidding through the expression of their own free will. So no harm without consent." Yes, and he certainly made perfectly clear all of the evil ramifications that would befall his victims didn't he. "An honest informed person would tend to view Satanism as a branch of objectionism and recognize Levay as one of the more important contributors in developing Rand's ideas." If you promote it, I want nothing to do with it. I understand the pros sand cons of Objectivism far better than you ever will.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 18:19:56 And since you are totally ignorant of Objectivism I have no desire to discuss it with you. Bye.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 18:26:27 Hot Rod I think you know I am neither a fan of Rand, nor by extension of Levay. So promoting is a wrong word. It being more that I would encourage you to seek inspiration in his writings. Contracts always assume due diligence. It does not matter if the contract is freely entered with the devil or indeed any other libertarian. There is no obligation to outline any and all ramifications following from a contract. I am pretty sure I understand the failing and strengths of Objectivism quite well. Starting with the fundamental dichotomy stemming from Locke's axiomatic "fruits of labour"
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 18:28:35 Hot Rod Anyone reading this or any other thread on the topic knows I am at least highly informed about Rand's philosophy, as indeed I am about her biography. Claiming otherwise makes you seem ignorant, not me.
jergul large member	Mon Feb 17 19:30:02 "and reason as his only absolute." Your cut and run from a perfectly reasonable discussion using a very unreasonable excuse = fail at Objectivism HR. You can abandon your principles so easily?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 19:50:14 Nothing about you is reasonable. You are a communist.
Renzo Marquez Member	Mon Feb 17 19:52:54 He's not a pedophile though. Advantage jergul.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Mon Feb 17 20:03:02 Yes he is and so are you pervert.
jergul large member	Tue Feb 18 00:21:11 Ready to hold reason in higher regard today Hot Rod?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Feb 18 04:47:25 Are you?
jergul large member	Tue Feb 18 05:08:45 Sure. Feel free to point out any of my statements you might find lacking in reason. It might be quite the challenge. I am quite adept at consistent internal logic. I can help you out a little. Your main issue here is caused by being steadfast to guilt by association. IF Satanism can be associated with Objectivism, then Objectivism is Satanism. This is untrue as it is a logical fallacy (all crows are black, crows are birds, therefore all birds are black). You should actually not have any problems with Satanism being a form of Objectivism. Particularly as you have clearly pointed out you are an Atheist, so Satanisms religious trappings are of supreme disinterest to you.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Feb 18 07:25:25 "Sure. Feel free to point out any of my statements you might find lacking in reason." All of them unless you have an independent reliable source. I no more believe in Satanism than I do God, though obviously you do.
jergul large member	Tue Feb 18 08:35:04 Your defence is then that you are incapable of reason and need an echo box to confirm to you what you already think you know. At least you remain steadfast in your stupidity Hot Rod, though an insult to libertarianism and Objectivism. But that sort of goes without saying. They are not systems for the meek and weak of heart and mind.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Feb 18 12:38:39 No, my defense is you are a liar until you are able to back up your claims. I suspect that will be sometime between never and eternity.
jergul large member	Tue Feb 18 12:52:40 Nah, I got it right. You lack the ability to reason. Which is a huge flaw for any Objectivist. You would do better with virtually any other philosophy.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Feb 18 13:10:50 Link please.
jergul large member	Tue Feb 18 13:18:53 http://www...hread=66679&time=1392749737061 There you go. Pay particular attention to HR's posts demonstrating a clear inability to reason.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Tue Feb 18 16:48:47 I see nothing wrong with my logic or my conclusions.
jergul large member	Tue Feb 18 17:30:43 You have not applied logic or reached any any intellectually meaningful conclusions. You have simply expressed your opinion. As you stated numerous times.
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