Utopia Talk / Politics / Is self reliance a good thing?

Sam Adams Member	Sun Nov 27 00:48:48 yes or no?
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Nov 27 00:56:36 Not if you want to consume beyond what you yourself are able and willing to produce.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 02:36:20 An honest man does not consume more than he produces.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Nov 27 02:37:19 I don't even know where to start.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 02:37:53 HR will now provide the proof of owning cows and a variety of fruits and vegetables and the skills to turn such things from raw materials into food on his plate and the ability to create all tools used.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 02:41:41 An honest man is allowed to barter or did you consider that?
CrownRoyal Member	Sun Nov 27 02:43:46 Can an honest man barter for more than he produces?
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 02:44:35 I was addressing your inability to comprehend ep's point. you are not self-reliant if you rely on a farmer to grow food for you with the intent to trade shoes you made him for food to feed your family. if all you know how to do is make shoes, you must be reliant on others because you yourself are unable to produce the basic necessity of food. you, however, are too retarded to grasp that point.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 02:44:41 Isn't that a contradiction in terms?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 02:47:19 Clit, how do you know I was addressing ep?
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 02:48:27 it is the only logical conclusion. it's nice to see that you're already trying to wiggle out of this.
MrPresident07 Member	Sun Nov 27 02:49:16 Self-reliance can mean a lot of things. You'd have to get specific.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Nov 27 02:49:37 "how do you know I was addressing ep?" Either you were addressing me, or you're a Marxist. "An honest man does not consume more than he produces." -- Quick, who else said that?!
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 02:57:02 Self-reliance as I read Sam's post is to exist without asking another man to live for my sake. In other words, to provide me sustenance without remuneration. Sam's OP can be answered in a number of ways. One is to live life as a hermit as ep suggested where you are responsible for each and everyone of your own needs. Another is to perform honest work for wages which are traded in the open market for ones needs. This is my response to Sam's post. Both are self reliant, only the economies are different.
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Nov 27 03:00:02 You mean like Juche?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 03:01:31 ep - Either you were addressing me, or you're a Marxist. You have a very narrow view of the world, but you are young yet. You will learn. And, to my knowledge, Marx never said, "An honest man does not consume more than he produces."
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 03:04:04 Camaban, no. More along the lines of von Mises.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 03:13:48 and there goes HR trying to hand wave his way out of his own stupidity.
Camaban The Overseer	Sun Nov 27 03:23:04 My response was @ the OP
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 03:31:54 Clit, you are a close minded ignorant person. You refuse to see any form of self-reliance connected with the free market where private property, based on trade, is the driver. Is it so hard to understand that transactions can be made between two or more parties where you have mutual trade for mutual benefit? Heck man, you conduct trades like that everyday. You work at a job for a salary you are willing to accept paid by someone who thinks you are worth it. You fill up your car with gas paying an amount that you think is worth the gas from someone willing to sell at that price. That goes for every transaction you make with others. They have something you want so you pay the price they ask. The only other alternatives are to take it by force or do without or make it yourself. That is my position, are you so dense you cannot understand that. It is how you have lived your entire life basically. If you don't get it, I surely do pity you.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 03:34:01 Camaban, cool. I hope they believe you. They seem to have it in their heads that I could not possibly be responding to the OP and my original post was aimed at ep only.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 03:34:43 HR can't understand english. nothing is new.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 03:38:01 Clit, Then explain it to me. All I have from you is that I could not possibly be responding to the OP and that I was indeed responding to ep. Which is false.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 03:42:06 lies and hand-waving. what happened to admitting when you're wrong?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 03:52:11 I'm not wrong. I was responding to the OP, not ep. You wanted to attack me and the only way you can do that is insist that I was responding to ep and not the OP. THAT IS A BALDFACED LIE. If you read my posts as a response to the OP you will see there are no flaws to my argument. The only way you can find flaws with my argument is to lie about my intentions. How can you presume to read my mind when your assumption is a lie from the get go, as any honest person can see from my response to the OP. Are you just jerking my chain, are you stupid or are you just a plain dyed in the wool liar. Either way your position is despicable.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 04:08:21 your word choice, the timing of your reply and the lack of any clarification as to what you were responding to (as is usual with a post from you that is not immediately after what you are responding to) says otherwise, hoot rod. (not a typo) please drop this ridiculous charade.
WilliamtheBastard Member	Sun Nov 27 04:10:53 "As you all Know, I am *THE FIRST* to admit when I am Wrong" - some random pedo
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 04:15:25 You are fucking idiot and a liar to boot. Go soak you head in a toilet to get the shit out of it.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 04:33:10 do you deny addressing posts or sections of posts to specific people or quotes on a regular basis, hot rod, specifically, when posts have separated what you are addressing and your reply?
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Nov 27 04:45:26 Yes.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Nov 27 04:45:53 And my post was in response to the 03:13:48 post. Obviously.
WilliamtheBastard Member	Sun Nov 27 05:22:06 some interesting selective deleting going on in this thread. Pedo still has a little delete button? http://www...&thread=49803&showdeleted=true
Jesse Malcolm Barack Member	Sun Nov 27 06:00:19 Rod protection act in force dude even though he instigates it every time
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 06:06:14 Clit, I do not understand your last post, it makes no sense. All I can say is that ep's response to the OP *might* apply to 1 in 10,000,000 people on earth (guesstimate). Whereas my response to the OP applies to the vast majority of mankind. If you honestly think that I was applying my response *ONLY* to the people that ep was referring to then you are in serious contention for the most asinine person on earth. How could you or any person with half a brain possibly conclude that I intended to say that *ONLY* hermits that are totally self-sufficient could be the only honest people on earth. That is idiotic. And no. I did not misinterpret ep's post. I was offering an alternative POV. Your problem is that you take this forum seriously and personally. You dislike me for whatever reason your little mind has conjured up. Because of that you have to attempt to ridicule me at every opportunity, trouble is that 99% of the time you have to use some kind of faux mind reading trick to distort my post to mean something that was the furthermost thing from my mind when I posted it. Then you hold that position like a pit bull regardless of the logic of my explanation. That puts your level of intelligence right down there with Oddfish, miltonfriedman and renzo. You should grow up and take this forum for what it is. Little more than a slambook that is not to be taken seriously. With all of the insults I throw out there are damned few of the members that I would not enjoy meeting. If you don't grow up and start taking your discussions seriously and honestly then you will soon find yourself among that select few. As things stand right now I find your actions dishonest and despicable.
jergul Member	Sun Nov 27 07:35:41 PM Kargen if you feel insulted by attacks on your person.
WilliamtheBastard Member	Sun Nov 27 07:44:26 rofl@retarded rant about other people taking the forum too seriously
Dakyron Member	Sun Nov 27 08:48:30 Yes, self-reliance is a good thing. No, it doesnt mean you cant ever buy or barter for something someone else made. /End thread
so what Member	Sun Nov 27 10:56:08 Hot Rod Member Sun Nov 27 02:36:20 An honest man does not consume more than he produces. ----- So... are you a dishonest man then, HR? Since you're not a productive member of society, but are leeching of social services and wellfare.
WilliamtheBastard Member	Sun Nov 27 11:16:21 there is no argument on earth that can get through his armor of excuses. "Conservatives also scored highest on measures of rationalization, which gauge a person's tendency to justify, or explain away, inequalities. The rationalization measure included statements such as: "It is not really that big a problem if some people have more of a chance in life than others" http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354424,00.html Verb 1. rationalize - defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for by reasoning; "rationalize the child's seemingly crazy behavior"; "he rationalized his lack of success", - give a deceptive explanation or excuse for; "color a lie"
Sam Adams Member	Sun Nov 27 11:17:15 wow this thread got derailed fast.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 12:05:30 so what, look up the word *insurance*. Sam, you can blame Clit for that.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Nov 27 12:06:30 @sa - yw
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 12:38:17 sam, are you really that bothered? troll bait caught something. it just happens to be the little, infected fish nobody wants and always tosses back in the pond. HR, I'm not even reading your short missive. I don't care. you're an ass and a retard and you constantly lie.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 12:41:04 Clit - HR, I'm not even reading your short missive. I don't care. you're an ass and a retard and you constantly lie. Meaning he already read it and has no response because he knows I nailed it. Go crawl back in your.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 12:41:22 *-hole.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 12:43:18 I got to mankind, realized there was still several more paragraphs and figured you were still puffing smoke trying to justify your own fucking stupidity again. I don't have a penchant for lying though. whereas you lie almost every chance you get.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 12:45:56 You lie every time you *PRESUME* to read my mind. You have no idea what I am thinking, you just lie to create an excuse for attacking me. As I said, go crawl back in your hole.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 12:55:42 I don't lie, I voice opinions. you should learn the difference and rescind such slanderous statements. you've yet to do such a thing, by the way. you make shit up about me and never apologize once you realize you're wrong (usually 3 days later, and you never admit it anyway).
Nimatzo iChihuaha	Sun Nov 27 13:16:21 >>Sam Adams Member Sun Nov 27 11:17:15 wow this thread got derailed fast.<< Surprised?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Nov 27 13:27:33 Clit, I apologize for any errors I have made about your character. Most were made as throw away insults because that is the nature of this forum. Any time I stepped over the line without intending to is very much regretted and I do sincerely apologize.
river of blood Member	Sun Nov 27 13:58:39 Sam, how does murdering other people for their natural resources and to keep oil pegged to the dollar constitute self-reliance? We don't even do the murdering by ourselves - we have to get the UK and others to help us.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Nov 27 18:47:53 while I don't necessarily believe it, I do appreciate the gesture. I do try to be fair to you as well, as you might have noticed in the skyrim thread.
Sam Adams Member	Sun Nov 27 18:52:57 "Sam, how does murdering other people for their natural resources and to keep oil pegged to the dollar constitute self-reliance?" it shows that we are more self reliant than they are?
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