Utopia Talk / Politics / Cheney makes me feel good

Average Ameriacn Member	Tue May 10 02:31:28 We did what we had to do and it was right. I feel good. I say if we had waterboarded communists in the 50s then the soviet union would have been defeated much earlier, maybe in the 60s. http://www...02043ba9252f3fa2fe6c31dce7.7b1 Bring back waterboarding, says Cheney (AFP) – 1 day ago WASHINGTON — Harsh interrogation methods such as waterboarding played a role in tracking down Osama bin Laden and should be reinstated, former US vice president Dick Cheney said Sunday. Another top member of the Bush administration, former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld, credited the use of so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques" with yielding "a major fraction" of US intelligence on Al-Qaeda and called ending them a "mistake." In one of the first acts after entering the White House in 2009, President Barack Obama suspended such methods, equating them with torture and saying they represented all that was wrong with the Bush-era "war on terror." But the killing of bin Laden, or more exactly the way the intelligence was gathered that led the CIA to track him down, has reopened a raging controversy in the United States over their use. Cheney, speaking on the "Fox News Sunday" program, said top intelligence officials had stated that "some of the early leads" that helped agents find bin Laden had come thanks to the harsh interrogation techniques used on terror suspects. "All have said one way or the other that the enhanced interrogation program played a role," he said. "My guess is that's probably the case that it contributed, just as did a number of other factors." Asked whether the methods should be reinstated if the United States were to capture a new high-value target, Cheney replied: "I certainly would advocate it. I'd be a strong supporter of it." Rumsfeld said three former CIA directors -- George Tenet, Porter Gross and retired general Michael Hayden -- say suspects subjected to waterboarding during CIA interrogations provided a "major fraction of all our knowledge about Al-Qaeda." "I think that it's clear that those techniques that the CIA used worked. And to have taken them away and ruled them out I think may be a mistake," he told CBS television's "Face the Nation." Chene also dismissed the notion that waterboarding, or simulated drowning, amounted to torture, saying he and the rest of the Bush team had gone to great lengths to ensure what they did was legal. "Waterboarding and all of the other techniques that were used are techniques that we use training our own people," he said. "This is stuff that we've done for years with own military personnel and to suggest that it's torture I just think is wrong." Vice president at the time of the September 11 attacks, Cheney was one of the Bush administration's biggest hawks as the United States launched its invasion of Afghanistan and the hunt for bin Laden. A vehement opponent of Obama, he has nonetheless congratulated him on killing the of Al-Qaeda chief, while paying tribute to the "tireless work" of the US military and intelligence services. Key intelligence over the identity of a courier -- among the few men bin Laden trusted, passing messages from the him to commanders in the field -- ultimately led US agents to the Al-Qaeda leader's compound in the Pakistani garrison town of Abbottabad. And detainees once held at secret CIA "black sites," or secretive prisons, were linked to the courier, known as Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, in previously classified intelligence assessments of Guantanamo prisoners released by whistleblower website WikiLeaks. Kuwaiti has been identified as a protege of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and assistant of Abu Faraj al-Libbi, another key Al-Qaeda operative. Some Republicans and Bush officials have claimed the pair may have revealed important details about Kuwaiti's identity after being subjected to harsh interrogations. "Information provided by KSM and Abu Faraj al-Libbi about bin Laden's courier was the lead information that eventually led to the location of [bin Laden's] compound and the operation that led to his death," Jose Rodriguez, who headed the CIA's counterterrorism efforts from 2002 to 2005, told Time magazine this week. Yet some Obama administration officials have hit back at such claims, insisting that they finally identified bin Laden's whereabouts after years of intelligence gathering from a broad variety of sources. White House National Security Adviser Tom Donilon told Fox News Sunday that enhanced interrogations were "not consistent with our values, not consistent and not necessary in terms of getting the kind of intelligence that we need."
Rugian Member	Tue May 10 07:04:45 It's not often that someone wraps their entire political platform around "we need to torture more motherfuckers."
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 09:40:00 So you think we should never have used harsh interrogation and that OBL should still be alive. Onterestin.
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 09:47:18 *-Interesting
Rugian Member	Tue May 10 09:56:21 Can someone please inform the fat fuck trying to troll me that this is an example of him blatantly lying, since I said nothing of the sort?
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 09:59:39 It is a fact that the initial clue to locating OBL came from harsh interrogation. Even Leon Paneta is on record as verifying that. If you oppose harsh interrogation, then where should that belief logically lead us?
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 10:01:35 Rugian - It's not often that someone wraps their entire political platform around "we need to torture more motherfuckers." If you oppose another persons belief it seems logical that you believe the opposite. Doesn't it?
asdasdfasdfasdfasdfa Member	Tue May 10 10:17:32 "John Brennan, assistant to the president for homeland security, has said information obtained through waterboarding did not, to his knowledge, play a role in the operation."
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 10:26:52 Leon Paneta, head of The Central Intelligence Agency said harsh interrogation did help. I'll stick with Leon.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 10:45:59 "Leon Paneta, head of The Central Intelligence Agency said harsh interrogation did help." Care to source this?
Rugian Member	Tue May 10 10:50:00 You gotta love how Republicans hate big government...except when it comes to the power to indefinitely detain and torture anyone it arbitrarily declares to be a "threat."
Rugian Member	Tue May 10 10:55:32 Call me crazy, but when it comes to defining "big government," I would MUCH rather have an additional 5% of my income be taxed, than live with the knowledge that the government could kidnap me, take me to a secret prison, and torture me for years on end without providing me any kind of legal recourse whatsoever.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 11:03:58 Look, Hamas Rod, supporting torture does not make you look any less of a terrorist. "OBL is innocent until proven guilty." -Hamas Rod
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 11:08:04 OBL is innocent until proven guilty." ~ Rugian FIXED
Rugian Member	Tue May 10 11:09:05 MF, see how he blatantly puts words in other posters' mouths, that they didn't utter themselves?
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 11:17:59 It was you that got me ensnared in that sentence when you were happy that OBL was dead and I was questioning the lack of a trial for OBL after you had given me such a hard time over Manning. Suffice it to say, we both agree that OBL being dead is a good thing and I agree with you that Manning should be given a fair trial. Then stood against the wall and shot. I was giving you a hard time about it and mf took something I said, turned it upside down and pulled it out of his ass. Let's bury the hatchet and put the blame where it belongs, on mf's pointed head.
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 11:18:58 You have my apology.
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 11:24:17 You have my apology.
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 11:24:22 You have my apology.
Hot Rod Member	Tue May 10 11:24:52 Oops
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue May 10 11:30:38 dictionary.com: "waterboarding: a form of torture" wikipedia: "Waterboarding is a form of torture" when Japanese did it, waterboarding was torture if people from all around the world think it is torture, what difference does it make if Cheney says it isn't also HR, your argument is essentially the ends justify the means effectiveness issues are not why torture was banned
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 11:35:09 Hamas Rod, why are you trying to pin the attribute on Rugian when everyone knows that I have the quote linked and posted on this forum? I mean, are you a masochist or something? You are asking people to give you a whoopass or something?
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 11:36:52 "It was you that got me ensnared in that sentence when you were happy that OBL was dead and I was questioning the lack of a trial for OBL" Sounds treasonous, Hamas Rod.
chen Member	Tue May 10 12:24:06 Rugian getting kidnapped and tortured is for your own safety.
Rugian Member	Tue May 10 12:37:21 I can't enjoy my freedoms if I'm dead!
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 12:39:56 that's ultimate freedom.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 12:39:58 that's ultimate freedom.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue May 10 12:40:09 that's ultimate freedom.
CrownRoyal Member	Thu May 12 12:15:07 Leon Paneta, head of The Central Intelligence Agency said harsh interrogation did help. I'll stick with Leon." ----------------------------- Stick with Leon. Here is yesterday speech from John McCain, where he shares the information he received from Leon. "“With so much misinformation being fed into such an essential public debate as this one, I asked the Director of Central Intelligence, Leon Panetta, for the facts. And I received the following information: “The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. We did not first learn from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the real name of bin Laden’s courier, or his alias, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the man who ultimately enabled us to find bin Laden. The first mention of the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, as well as a description of him as an important member of Al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country. The United States did not conduct this detainee’s interrogation, nor did we render him to that country for the purpose of interrogation. We did not learn Abu Ahmed’s real name or alias as a result of waterboarding or any ‘enhanced interrogation technique’ used on a detainee in U.S. custody. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts, or an accurate description of his role in Al-Qaeda. “In fact, not only did the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed not provide us with key leads on bin Laden’s courier, Abu Ahmed; it actually produced false and misleading information. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married, and ceased his role as an Al-Qaeda facilitator — which was not true, as we now know. All we learned about Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti through the use of waterboarding and other ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ against Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the confirmation of the already known fact that the courier existed and used an alias. “I have sought further information from the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and they confirm for me that, in fact, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in Al-Qaeda and his true relationship to Osama bin Laden — was obtained through standard, non-coercive means, not through any ‘enhanced interrogation technique.’ “In short, it was not torture or cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama bin Laden. I hope former Attorney General Mukasey will correct his misstatement. It’s important that he do so because we are again engaged in this important debate, with much at stake for America’s security and reputation. Each side should make its own case, but do so without making up its own facts. " http://www...yer_embedded&v=3I94Yb4KUic
Chris Dodd Member	Thu May 12 14:55:37 God, you just cant trust a single hotrod post. Ever.
Oddfish Member	Thu May 12 15:00:48 Horror Rod's entire worldview is built on lies like this. Thats why he's relegated to using the shittiest sources in the MSM - the ones that tell him the lies like this he wants them to tell him.
Hot Rod Member	Thu May 12 19:16:04 Yeah, Paneta works for Obama and was forced to back track and McCain opposes torture, IIRC, so of course they had to cook that up. The New York Times ignores Panettaâ??s confirmation of waterboardingâ??s role in bin Laden killing in harsh interrogation story Daily Caller Email Print Matthew Boyle - The Daily Caller â?? Wed May 4, 1:13 am ET In a story about the resurrection of the harsh interrogation techniques debate slated to run on The New York Timesâ?? front page Wednesday morning, reporters Scott Shane and Charlie Savage completely ignore CIA director Leon Panettaâ??s Tuesday evening confirmation that waterboarding played a role in procuring the intelligence that led U.S. forces to terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. â??As intelligence officials disclosed the trail of evidence that led to the compound in Pakistan where Bin Laden was hiding, a chorus of Bush administration officials claimed vindication for their policy of â??enhanced interrogation techniquesâ?? like waterboarding,â?? Shane and Savage write in their story, accusing Republicans of igniting a debate they thought was long over. Shane and Savage looked the other way, though, when it came to Panettaâ??s confirmation that waterboarding was part of the â??enhanced interrogation techniquesâ?? used on detainees. â??We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situationâ?¦ clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,â?? Panetta told NBC News anchor Brian Williams. The New York Times duo also suggested that House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Rep. Peter King, New York Republican, inflamed the debate by saying he thought the intelligence came from waterboarding. â??The chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Representative Peter T. King, Republican of New York, told Fox News that the success of the hunt for Bin Laden was due to waterboarding,â?? Shane and Savage wrote. It turns out King was right. [ For complete coverage of politics and policy, go to Yahoo! Politics ] The duoâ??s story also wrongly reported the day of the attack on bin Ladenâ??s complex in Pakistan. â??Obama administration officials, intent on celebrating Mondayâ??s successful raid, have tried to avoid reigniting a partisan battle over torture,â?? Shane and Savage wrote. The raid was conducted on Sunday, not Monday, as Shane and Savage reported. A spokesman for The New York Times did not immediately return The Daily Callerâ??s request for comment. You guys will swallow anything they stick under your nose. No matter how much damage control they try to do it does not change what Paneta said, "We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situationâ?¦ clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees," Panetta told NBC News anchor Brian Williams.
Chris Dodd Member	Thu May 12 19:35:06 About Us Founded by Tucker Carlson, a 20-year veteran of print and broadcast media, and Neil Patel, former chief policy adviser to Vice President Cheney, The Daily Caller is a 24-hour news site hotrod never fails to go find some utter bullshit lol...and he talks about others believing whatever is stuck under peoples noses...lol
Hot Rod Member	Thu May 12 19:41:12 Rugian - You gotta love how Republicans hate big government...except when it comes to the power to indefinitely detain and torture anyone it arbitrarily declares to be a "threat." Big government or small government, makes no difference. There job is to protect The American People. IMHO, that is what they were doing. Of course if you want to let the terrorists run wild, write Obama a letter and tell him to turn them loose.
Chris Dodd Member	Thu May 12 19:42:47 The Daily Caller is a right-wing political journalism website based in Washington, D.C., United States founded by journalist and political pundit Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. Tucker Swanson McNear Carlson is an American political news correspondent and conservative commentator for the Fox News Channel. He is co-founder and editor-in-chief of The Daily Caller. On Thursday, July 15, 2010, The Daily Caller announced its acquisition of KeithOlbermann.com.[9] That domain links to The Daily Caller's homepage. Olbermann, the former host of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, suggested he'd sue The Caller for the rights to the site.[10][11][12] In November 2010, Philadelphia Daily News reporter Stu Bykofsky attempted to contact Olbermann for comment by emailing keith@keitholbermann.com. The responses, which came from someone at The Daily Caller, not from Olbermann, were attributed to Olbermann when published on the website Phawker.com; If you ever stop using joke sources instead of testimony by McCain, you'll find your whole world falls apart.
miltonfriedman Member	Thu May 12 19:45:21 "I will say whatever I want using whatever sources I found. Please don't ask for proof." -Hamas Rod
Hot Rod Member	Thu May 12 20:00:28 â??We had multiple series of sources that provided information with regards to this situationâ?¦ clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of those detainees,â?? he told NBC anchor Brian Williams. When asked by Williams if water-boarding was part of the â??enhanced interrogation techniques,â?? Panetta simply said â??thatâ??s correct.â??
Chris Dodd Member	Thu May 12 20:03:45 Oh we can all just repeat posts The Daily Caller is a right-wing political journalism website based in Washington, D.C., United States founded by journalist and political pundit Tucker Carlson and Neil Patel, former adviser to former Vice President Dick Cheney. Tucker Swanson McNear Carlson is an American political news correspondent and conservative commentator for the Fox News Channel. He is co-founder and editor-in-chief of The Daily Caller. On Thursday, July 15, 2010, The Daily Caller announced its acquisition of KeithOlbermann.com.[9] That domain links to The Daily Caller's homepage. Olbermann, the former host of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, suggested he'd sue The Caller for the rights to the site.[10][11][12] In November 2010, Philadelphia Daily News reporter Stu Bykofsky attempted to contact Olbermann for comment by emailing keith@keitholbermann.com. The responses, which came from someone at The Daily Caller, not from Olbermann, were attributed to Olbermann when published on the website Phawker.com; If you ever stop using joke sources instead of testimony by McCain, you'll find your whole world falls apart.
yankeessuck123 Member	Thu May 12 20:21:11 Sometimes you have to walk on the Dark Side.
Hot Rod Member	Thu May 12 20:37:14 So you people admit that NBC News with Brian Williams is, indeed, a joke source. LOL
Chris Dodd Member	Thu May 12 20:39:15 Ive never even heard of brian williams, so your projecting continues to fail. Apart from that pwnge, it feels icky and degrading reading and acknowledging your posts, so we'll just conclude you got pwnd with yet more shitty sources that feed you with the lies you need to not kill yourself, and return your ass to the ignore list.
Chris Dodd Member	Thu May 12 20:46:34 Real quote from nbc with williams: "In the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here," Panetta said. "We had a multiple source â?? a multiple series of sources â?? that provided information with regards to the situation. Clearly some of it came from detainees and the interrogation of detainees but we also had information from other sources as well." Yupp, hotrod --> ignored list for being so unreliable.
Hot Rod Member	Thu May 12 20:56:47 So you don't know who Brian Williams is? I kind of figured you never watch the news. So, where did you dig up that NBC quote?
Oddfish Member	Fri May 13 04:44:40 Cause if a human being somewhere in the world doesnt watch some american newscaster of your choice, they never watch the news. Dumbfuck.
CrownRoyal Member	Fri May 13 05:23:45 It is abnormal how bushies are on their knees, praying "Please god, let the information come from our sadism". Wouldn't any normal human being hope for something else? If I were a bush fan, I'd pray that torture episodes are forgotten and never associated with his name.
Oddfish Member	Fri May 13 05:29:00 "So, where did you dig up that NBC quote? " errr...duh...mebbe...NBC? Y'know, go to the original source, dumb fucking redneck? Wait, of course you dont
Hot Rod Member	Fri May 13 07:31:06 OK, I googled that entire quote and this is what I got back from The Huffington Post. ""We had multiple series of sources that provided informatio­n with regards to this situation... clearly some of it came from detainees [and] they used these enhanced interrogat­ion techniques against some of those detainees,­" Mr. Panetta said. He confirmed â?? â??thatâ??s correctâ?? â?? when asked specifical­ly whether waterboard­ing was one of the techniques­." It appears Dudd did some editing.
Oddfish Member	Fri May 13 07:33:05 errr...duh...mebbe...NBC? Y'know, go to the original source, dumb fucking redneck? Wait, of course you dont
Chris Dodd Member	Fri May 13 07:36:23 just do what I do: when you see his tag, skip to the next post.
Hot Rod Member	Fri May 13 07:43:41 Tell you what. Forget the link to your fiction because we all know it doesn't exist. Instead go to google and enter that entire quote and find the page that leads to that exact quote *on the NBC site*. Just let me know the google page number. Cool? Otherwise, stop accusing me of doing exactly what is being done here. Posting edited garbage as truth.
Chris Dodd Member	Fri May 13 07:47:27 "It is abnormal how bushies are on their knees, praying "Please god, let the information come from our sadism". Wouldn't any normal human being hope for something else? If I were a bush fan, I'd pray that torture episodes are forgotten and never associated with his name. " indeed
Rugian Member	Fri May 13 07:49:15 I was slightly disappointed when I figured out that the person currently using the Oddfish tag isn't the real Oddfish. I kinda liked that poster.
Hot Rod Member	Fri May 13 07:52:25 Me too, but this Oddfish is even stupider than the original. This one is Master Bate stealing yet another ancient tag.
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