Utopia Talk / Politics / Us to reduce oil imports by half in 10 y

Snuke Member	Thu Feb 10 12:54:10 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110209/ap_on_re_us/us_shale_oil
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 12:57:56 Yeah, until the tree huggers complain or a pail of oil leaks into where it is not supposed to be and the government shuts it down.
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 13:11:45 In 50 years, oil will be used purely in manufacturing and jet fuel. Private and public transportation, other than air travel, will be all electric. Although that means we need to have an energy renaissance in regards to our power plants.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 13:15:27 We need to start pumping our own oil from every source available and start building nuclear plants as fast as possible. Then we can worry about alternative energy.
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 13:16:47 "Oil engineers are applying what critics say is an environmentally questionable method developed in recent years to tap natural gas trapped in underground shale. They drill down and horizontally into the rock, then pump water, sand and chemicals into the hole to crack the shale and allow gas to flow up." So... water and chemicals pumped into the ground. What could go wrong? "Environmentalists fear that fluids or wastewater from the process, called hydraulic fracturing, could pollute drinking water supplies." Oh. Also, the West is typically dry. Where exactly are they getting all this water?
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 13:24:02 "We need to start pumping our own oil from every source available " It wouldnt help. It would increase worlwide oil production less than 1%. Any and all oil currently available for reasonable drilling costs(both financial and environmental) is currently being pumped. Its not like there is a huge reserve in the Dakotas that we just dont want to drill into. Even the ANWR and offshore potential wells that are controversial are not that big respective to those in the rest of the world. The US uses too much oil, even if every drop known to us in the United States and its territorial waters were being pumped, it still wouldnt be enough. You need to get it through your head that despite the protestations of Fox News, that we cannot drill our way out of the problem. "start building nuclear plants as fast as possible" This I agree with, assuming we use a feeder/breeder system where most of the nuclear fuel is simply reused to give us an almost perpetual supply of fuel. Coal, oil, diesel, and even wind powered electricity is not conducive to an environmentally friendly and power-happy future. "Then we can worry about alternative energy. " Alternative energy is our ticket out of gas shortages and high pump prices. If we didnt depend on refined petroleum for fuel for individual transportation and commerical trucking then oil could be $1000 a barrel and we would barely notice.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 13:40:12 "Any and all oil currently available for reasonable drilling costs(both financial and environmental) is currently being pumped." Stopped reading right there. That is bullshit. Fuck the environmental, Obama has placed an unwarranted embargo on drilling in The Gulf and because of that most, if not all, of the deep water platforms have moved to other countries and it has cost us 30,000 jobs to boot. It will probably take years to get that production back. Most all of the environmental restrictions are placed there by the states to get and keep the votes of the environmentalists. It is all fucking politics and we need someone who will stand up and say so and tell the environmentalists to go fuck themselves.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 13:44:07 Do you think this will ever get built? Especially if Obama gets a second term? "The Keystone XL pipeline, awaiting a thumbs up or down on a presidential permit, would increase the import of heavy oil from Canada's oil sands to the U.S. by as much as 510,000 barrels a day, if it gets built. Proponents tout it as a boon to national security that would reduce America's dependence on oil from unfriendly regimes. Opponents say it would magnify an environmental nightmare at great cost and provide only the illusion of national benefit." MORE: http://www...1/02/10/idUS292515702420110210
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 13:46:36 "Stopped reading right there. That is bullshit. " Source? "Fuck the environmental, Obama has placed an unwarranted embargo on drilling in The Gulf and because of that most, if not all, of the deep water platforms have moved to other countries and it has cost us 30,000 jobs to boot. It will probably take years to get that production back. " Source? "Most all of the environmental restrictions are placed there by the states to get and keep the votes of the environmentalists. " So people believe that short-term minimal gains are not worth the potential long term environmental and aestethic costs, and you think this is bullshit since our politicians should ignore their constituents. "It is all fucking politics and we need someone who will stand up and say so and tell the environmentalists to go fuck themselves. " Hot Rod, you are such a hack and a moron its no longer comical.
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 13:47:34 "Opponents say it would magnify an environmental nightmare at great cost and provide only the illusion of national benefit." Id say thats pretty close to the truth.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 13:55:18 And your ignorant liberal economics thinks it is wise to pay close to $750,000,000 a year to people who hate us? You want to see Sharia Law and Wahhabism continue in the Muslim countries? Fuck the 'environmental and aestethic costs' stick you head back up your ass and ignore the problems facing America. Your ignorance and shortsighted liberalism is beyond belief.
milton bradley Member	Thu Feb 10 13:58:45 "And your ignorant liberal economics thinks it is wise to pay close to $750,000,000 a year to people who hate us? " No, actually I thought it rather obvious I was suggesting that we not do that. Its your ignorant self who wants to continue down the road of fossil fuels. "You want to see Sharia Law and Wahhabism continue in the Muslim countries? " Not particularly, but I dont care enough to want to forcibly change their minds. "Fuck the 'environmental and aestethic costs' stick you head back up your ass and ignore the problems facing America. " No, Roddy, you are ignoring the real problems by suggesting we can just drill more wells to solve all of the worlds problems. "Your ignorance and shortsighted liberalism is beyond belief. " This might be the most comically ironic statement I've ever read.
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 13:59:03 ^ that was me.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 14:03:24 Dak - Id say thats pretty close to the truth. Of course you would. And as proof you have every single oil pipeline in the world that has turned into huge pools of oil from leaky pipelines that were built and never maintained. What an environmental disaster each and every one of them has turned out to be. Why do I even bother talking to an environmentalist? It is like talking to a dead tree log.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 14:08:20 Dak, So you are the fuckhead that spams all of my threads. Go fuck yourself.
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 14:15:42 Goddamnit Hot Rod, no one is this dense. Anyone can log on as milton bradley. ANYONE. Other than possibly you due to your stupidity and inability to decipher such a basic password. People have been using milton bradley as a way of posting anonymously for months. You know this. I dont spam anyone's threads. That would mean I actually gave a shit about your opinion. I dont.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 14:20:03 I havge sai9d it before and I will say it to you personally. ANYONE WHO LOGS IN UNDER THAT TAG IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THE ACTIONS AND POSTS BY THAT TAG. So go fuck yourself spammer.
Milton Bradley Member	Thu Feb 10 14:29:16 "ANYONE WHO LOGS IN UNDER THAT TAG IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THE ACTIONS AND POSTS BY THAT TAG. " haha, nobody obeys your orders, old wanna-be tyrant tard
Dakyron Member	Thu Feb 10 14:32:31 ^ Not me The world doesnt obey your orders, Hot Roddy
MrPresident07 Member	Thu Feb 10 14:35:07 We need to do both. We need to pump what we have all the while start converting as soon as possible. Nuclear power must start getting more popular in this country.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 14:37:49 MP07 - We need to do both. We need to pump what we have all the while start converting as soon as possible. Nuclear power must start getting more popular in this country. That is exactly what I said, but the moronic tree huggers can't comprehend simple English.
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 14:58:38 "And as proof you have every single oil pipeline in the world that has turned into huge pools of oil from leaky pipelines that were built and never maintained." Who said that? You can't deny that there is tons of environmental impact in creating the pipe and providing the services and the infrastructure to maintain it. You also can't deny that there are often leaky pipelines. http://www...-shuts-chevrons-salt-lake.html A second leak in six months has shut down a Chevron Corp. pipeline near Salt Lake City. News reports from Salt Lake City said temperatures below freezing were helping to minimize the spread of any spilled oil. Last summer, an electrical arc burned a hole in the pipeline, which runs near Red Butte Creek, and about 800 barrels, or 33,000 gallons, of oil leaked out into the creek. This leak was reported to be much smaller, about 100 barrels. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-10/enbridge-illinois-pipeline-leak-pushes-crude-gasoline-higher.html Illinois: At the time of the leak the pipeline was transporting about 459,000 barrels per day of heavy crude, the company said in a statement. Neither the size nor the cause of the leak has been determined, Enbridge said. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/07/oil-pipeline-leak-pollutes-major-michigan-river/ Estimated 877,000 gallons of oil reportedly coating birds and fish Southern Michigan residents are learning that devastating oil spills aren't limited to the Gulf Coast. Crews were working Wednesday to contain and clean up an estimated 877,000 gallons of oil that coated birds and fish as it poured into a creek and flowed into the Kalamazoo River, one of the state's major waterways. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/business/energy-environment/10oil.html There have been repeated leaks and spills in the Alaska pipeline network over the last several years. The most serious occurred in March 2006 when corrosion in BPâ??s network of north Alaska feeder lines caused a spill of more than 260,000 gallons of oil, the worst in the history of the North Slope. BP eventually paid more than $20 million in fines and restitution. -------------------------------------------------- It happens plenty so fuck off
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 16:48:26 Golly, just think what the environmental impact of our modern cities is. Do you think we should bulldoze them and move into caves so we can have bunches and bunches of pretty flowers? You people better wake up, our society is in trouble and we better do something about it or we *will* be forced to move into those caves.
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 17:13:55 "Golly, just think what the environmental impact of our modern cities is. ... You people better wake up, our society is in trouble and we better do something about it or we *will* be forced to move into those caves. " Said the guy advocating the continued use of fossil fuels. Oh the irony.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 18:01:31 CAN ANY OF YOU PEOPLE READ SIMPLE ENGLISH? "We need to start pumping our own oil from every source available and start building nuclear plants as fast as possible. Then we can worry about alternative energy." I have never met such a gaggle of morons in my life.
Hotter Odd Member	Thu Feb 10 18:20:56 http://www...k-it-demotivational-poster.jpg Do *YOU*?
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 18:30:58 "We need to start pumping our own oil from every source available and start building nuclear plants as fast as possible. Then we can worry about alternative energy." So basically you advocate continuing cheap oil while trying to convince people to allow nuclear plants in their backyard and putting off renewable energy investment for later. Ya, that will work well, kind of like it has for the last 30 years. ... moron.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 18:55:04 Who said anything about convincing anyone. Just build them. They haven't done shit for 30 years except send trillions of dollars to people that hate us and all they put up is to allow foreign oil companies to poke holes in their grounds. You are just as stupid as the leadership that listens to the tree huggers to get their votes. What gets me is you liberals have no idea how much trouble this country is in and what it is going to take to extricate ourselves. Letting Obama build multi-billion dollar railroads is not going to work.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Thu Feb 10 18:58:51 nor is destroying our greatest natural resource (land/air). dump billions of dollars into manufactured oil (the shit made from bacteria) and get that up and running. then we can continue to fuel our cars, HELP the environment (the entire process is carbon negative) and a US company would hold the rights to the technology. if you're so stubborn about staying on oil, of course.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:02:12 You just made my point about the leadership not doing shit. If you suggestion is feasible why aren't they already in mass production?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:03:55 Or is it like ethanol where it takes more energy to create than it produces?
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Thu Feb 10 19:04:26 because the technology isn't finished. hence my point of dumping money into it. I guess I could have said something about finishing the research to be clear. google 'bacteria produced oil', quite a few articles will come up on the subject.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:06:01 So how many billion will it take to finish the research in the next year?
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Thu Feb 10 19:10:43 http://cos...0-bacteria-rebuilt-to-make-oil other links within the article, but its all a year old. however: "One of the funders for the research is LS9, a California-based biotech company that intends to market fuels and other microbe-produced chemicals. "I'm reasonably optimistic that we're going to have high-level production of these kinds of biofuels in the next couple of years," Keasling said. Check out this Berkeley Lab news release to learn more about the research." next couple years from jan 2010 should put it at no more than 3 years away. assuming everything goes as planned.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Thu Feb 10 19:12:31 as for how much it would cost to finish, no idea. don't think any estimates have been put forward.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:20:30 "high-level production of these kinds of biofuels in the next couple of years," How close is that to the 19 to 20 million plus barrels per day that we need?
Honest Politician Member	Thu Feb 10 19:23:15 How about you fucking reduce the amount you think you need in the first place.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:24:17 So, in other words you are offering a technology that is not complete and will take years, per haps decades, before it can supply the amount of oil we need. Meanwhile we keep sending hundreds of billions of dollars a year to our enemies. Good plan.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:25:38 Honest Politician - How about you fucking reduce the amount you think you need in the first place. Tell it to the CIA. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2174rank.html
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:28:07 If you don't believe them, try this one. http://www..._cons_psup_dc_nus_mbblpd_a.htm
Honest Politician Member	Thu Feb 10 19:31:04 Oh look, the EU with ~500m citizens uses 2/3rds of the oil of US which has 300m citizens. If you didn't use so much, and piss of other countries, maybe your enemies wouldn't get so many hundreds of billions of dollars.
Honest Politician Member	Thu Feb 10 19:32:25 BTW, when I said "you think you need", I meant make efforts to reduce the amount of oil or "gas" that you use instead of acting like cheap fuel is your god given right.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:42:41 Have you ever been to America? We are nearly twice as big as all of Europe, we are much more spread out than you are. It is almost impossible to live in some cities without a car and virtually impossible in the rural areas.
Ninja Member	Thu Feb 10 19:42:51 "Who said anything about convincing anyone. Just build them. " This is a democracy you moron, not a dictatorship. It's all fine and dandy until you decide where to build them then it's the "not in my back yard" syndrome. "What gets me is you liberals have no idea how much trouble this country is in and what it is going to take to extricate ourselves. " Conservatives had the house and senate for at least a decade both the legislature and white house for at least 8 years. Why is this a "you liberals" bullshit? Again, the point is that spending a ton of money, destroying the environment of several highly sensitive areas and 5-10 years for the production and pipelines in place, is not the solution. If anything we need to gradually increase the price of oil and let the economics create opportunity for other sources of energy or the motivation to invest in alternative energy and non-fossil fuel technologies. You think people aren't going to start eying cars like the volt when the cost of ownership of a car that primarily runs on gas skyrockets?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:48:54 "Conservatives had the house and senate for at least a decade both the legislature and white house for at least 8 years. Why is this a "you liberals" bullshit?" Don't start that crap. I talked earlier about our shit for brains leadership and i meant both democrats AND republicans. The 'YOU' liberals I am talking about is the liberal ostriches on this forum that thinks we are living in the land of milk and honey. The
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 19:54:56 Volt = MSRP starting at $32,780 I'll take two. Oh wait... We get a government subsidy when we buy one. I'll take seven, one for each day of the week. You guys are thinking just like the dumb asses politicians.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Thu Feb 10 20:00:17 "So, in other words you are offering a technology that is not complete and will take years, perhaps decades, before it can supply the amount of oil we need." years, not decades. not to mention, we don't need to replace all the oil we use with domestic oil. even replacing 1/2 is a huge step.
Honest Politician Member	Thu Feb 10 20:01:22 As a matter of fact I have been to the US on a number of occasions, spent a few months there last summer. Reason you need a car is because, from what I've seen in several states in the eastern seaboard atleast, public transport only exists between certain cities or certain routes. There is no alternative to a having car because you've had it good with gas prices for a while that any public transport was irrelevant. It's not that it's so spread out in the major states, there are plenty towns and cities, it's just there's no way to travel except by car. Increase gas prices, build Obamas HSR and you won't be spending so much on foreign oil.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 20:06:16 LOL, you all have a nice evening.
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 20:17:00 "The 'YOU' liberals I am talking about is the liberal ostriches on this forum that thinks we are living in the land of milk and honey. " What the fuck are you smoking? We're the ones pushing for money to science and tech for renewable energy while the republicans are cutting/not investing and sit there screaming drill baby drill. God damn you're a moron
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 20:20:32 And ***I*** am the one pushing to get a handle on our immediate problems before wondering off into La La 'Research' Land. Produce our own energy and we can afford to put more into research if you isist on doing so.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 20:22:59 *-insist
miltonfriedman Member	Thu Feb 10 20:33:20 There is one sure way to stop us from sending money to Middle East - use less oil. p.s. there would be no oil drilling to begin with had we not spent money on "research." p.p.s. pedo rod is a retard.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 20:35:57 Fuck you Dakyron. Go away and leave your betters alone.
miltonfriedman Member	Thu Feb 10 20:40:51 you misread the handle. p.s. you are seriously retarded.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Feb 10 20:43:47 PS, all of you fuckheads are the same ilk. Translation = The lowest scum I can think of.
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 20:43:59 "And ***I*** am the one pushing to get a handle on our immediate problems before wondering off into La La 'Research' Land. " You don't just turn the tap on for Oil drilling and infrastructure to get the oil where we need it. What is there is a drop in the bucket. "Produce our own energy and we can afford to put more into research if you isist on doing so. " so destroy the environment now and make it worse off with all the carbon emissions so we can afford green tech down the line? brilliant. "Volt = MSRP starting at $32,780 I'll take two. Oh wait... We get a government subsidy when we buy one. " Yes, nothing could be gained by the economics of scale as demand went up when the economics of more expensive oil drove up the total cost of ownership of cars that run on gas. nothing at all. moron. We keep circling it but the fact is that more expensive oil will drive the market place to alternatives. What we need is more expensive oil, not cheaper/more cheap oil.
Hellfire Member	Thu Feb 10 20:49:21 Also: http://www...-reserves-overstated-wikileaks The US fears that Saudi Arabia, the world's largest crude oil exporter, may not have enough reserves to prevent oil prices escalating, confidential cables from its embassy in Riyadh show. The cables, released by WikiLeaks, urge Washington to take seriously a warning from a senior Saudi government oil executive that the kingdom's crude oil reserves may have been overstated by as much as 300bn barrels â?? nearly 40%. ------------------------------- cheap oil isn't the answer, the cost of oil needs to go up.
miltonfriedman Member	Thu Feb 10 20:50:33 Here are some of the things a scum might say: he Guardian Member Tue Jul 06 23:13:21 mf, I didn't include yopu in being a closet homosexual. We all know how much you love those big juicy nigger cocks with their cum drooling down your chin. The Guardian Member Tue Jul 06 23:17:06 Why not call them what they are? It is obvious what they are trying to hide. That is what I respect about you, you are not ashamed of sucking nigger cock. Hot Rod Member Tue Jul 06 23:35:23 You still got that big juicy nigger cock up your ass queer? Hot Rod Member Tue Jul 06 23:59:16 So you consider sucking those great big juicy nigger cocks to be mentally healthy. Well as long as you consider yourself virtuous you just go right aheadd. Just don't bite down. Hot Rod Member Wed Jul 07 00:07:59 Who you got at the plate tonight? Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton? http://www...hread=36586&time=1278479933111 Hot Rod Moderator Tue Aug 26 08:08:42 Stupid shit face foreigner, can't even read English. Hot Rod Member Mon Sep 13 07:03:24 Is it your mother or your father that is a nigger. Renzo says it is your dad, I say it is your mother.
The Powers That Be Member	Thu Feb 10 22:22:57 ^ Gets me every time. There is something hilarious about visualizing an old man angrily debating about nigger cocks.
Snuke Member	Mon Feb 14 05:56:13 WHITE POWER
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