Utopia Talk - Politics - Nerd Sniping

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Nerd Sniping

Seb
Member Fri Dec 03 16:38:07
http://jayisgames.com/games/manufactoria/

Aeros
Member Fri Dec 03 17:06:55
The fuck is this?

Seb
Member Fri Dec 03 21:03:57
Adictive.

Cthulhu
Tentacle Rapist Fri Dec 03 21:10:03
If only mac could figure out left click function. Fuck I need a PC again.

cloud strife
Member Fri Dec 03 21:32:23
Ha.

Still Well
Member Fri Dec 03 23:18:55
nice find.

Seb
Member Sat Dec 04 00:08:09
cs is thinking about Turing machines. Probably other people are too... they should be.

Seb
Member Sat Dec 04 00:08:59
BTW, CS, if you use pen and paper you are cheating :P

Madc0w
Member Sat Dec 04 00:25:00
Is there some sort of algorithm for this? It seems like trial and error but I feel like I'm missing something...

Cloud Strife
Member Sat Dec 04 00:35:13
It reminds me of circuits.

Seb
Member Sat Dec 04 00:51:02
CS:

You mathmos, so obsessed with projecting cool detachment :P

Madocw:

The whole game is about algorithms.
Each level is about figuring out the algorithm to satisfy the requirements.
Read wiki on turing machine.

Madc0w
Member Sat Dec 04 01:08:44
Yeah, it makes more sense now after playing it a little longer.

Cloud Strife
Member Sat Dec 04 01:33:41
I'm not really sure what a good mechanism of keeping count of something is, except to build a huge machine...

Cloud Strife
Member Sat Dec 04 01:41:29
I'm not really sure what a good mechanism of keeping count of something is, except to build a huge machine...

Seb
Member Sat Dec 04 01:42:38
cs:

Yeah, the lack of memory sucks.

I've found it better to use top and start markers for strings and using that to process a single operation for the entire string where alternate colours are available.

Theoretically, you should be able to do it more rigorously with bigger machines, but space is a premium. Hold down shift to allow belts to cross other belts BTW, didn't notice that till late on.

Even so, I think a few of my solutions are not real solutions, even if they pass all the tests the game throws at them, due to lack of space to do things properly.

saiko
Member Sat Dec 04 20:36:55
Nice. No apparent way to make a for loop though. While loops are easy.

cloud strife
Member Sat Dec 04 20:42:47
I liked the adding and subtracting ones. They were deep and tough.

Seb
Member Sun Dec 05 10:41:33
Yeah, the adding and subtracting ones are hard.

Nekran
Member Mon Dec 06 14:52:25
Fun stuff :)

Seb
Member Mon Dec 06 14:55:34
Urgh, trying to do the yellow in the middle of an even length string one now

Nekran
Member Mon Dec 06 15:06:20
I'm just on the 10th one or so... just finished the one that has to end like it starts... nothing too frustrating yet :)

Nekran
Member Mon Dec 06 15:31:37
Some number of blue, then the same number of red is the first one that really has me scratching my head right now :\

Cloud Strife
Member Mon Dec 06 16:28:28
That one you can beat cheaply by just putting a bunch of red blue switches on the first row, and a conveyor to the bottom.

It's not complete (can fail if falls off the edge), but that string does not come as a test.

Still, have to figure out how to do it to do the red then blue then red that that one unlocks.

To beat it, I think first check to see that it is in fact all red than all blue.

Then pull off one red at a time and find a corresponding blue and remove it.

Then you are pretty much done.

Seb
Member Mon Dec 06 16:38:43
CS:

All solutions must be complete... cheating is not permitted!

Cloud Strife
Member Mon Dec 06 16:43:20
Which is better? A convoluted complete algorithm that takes a ton of time and sucks.

Or an elegant simple algorithm that handles everything in a fairly large set, but has constraints on machine size.

Cloud Strife
Member Mon Dec 06 16:45:54
NVM, the cheap thing solved a totally different problem anyway :p

Nekran
Member Mon Dec 06 16:50:38
Yeah that's lame, CS.

It really sucks btw if you have this whole floor-filling complex piece of machinery worked out and it turns out not to quite work for everything... I'm getting close though... I know I am!

*twitch*

I'm working with writing yellows for the first sequence of blue and using the ability to pass through the ones of the other colour, thus knowing the amount and such and so... but I'm having a hard time to make it work for any number. I must not be thinking of something...

Nekran
Member Mon Dec 06 17:45:41
Finally... though I couldn't make it work until infinity... made it so it worked up 'till 8 blue, 8 red, with better organisation I'm sure I could've gone up until about 15, discarding everything that wasn't a number of 15 blue followed by 15 red, but if after the 15th red there would be a 16th red, it would've had me (a new blue would obviously have been eliminated).

Wouldn't mind seeing the screenshot of one that could do it for an infinite number if one of you guys succeeded in that.

Nekran
Member Mon Dec 06 17:57:01
Playing the extremely easy swap blue for red and red for blue after that one is kind of silly :)

Seb
Member Mon Dec 06 21:15:31
Whats the level name?

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 04:44:28
Androids! Third on the first column.

Ended on moving the last one to the front last night... should be easier later today now that I have a fresh head again... was really annoying myself last night knowing that it couldn't be that hard, but I kept on failing.

Seb
Member Tue Dec 07 09:26:13
I'll pm you my level code.

I think it is a complete a solution as you can get....

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 09:48:41
Yaaaaaaaaargh the moving the last to the front is driving me insane still... really thought it was my late night fuzzy head that was my problem.

Finding out what the last colour is and moving it to the front is no problem... but how I have to get around to removing the last one is doing my head in.

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 10:08:07
Very nice sollution... but fuck me I thought (I don't know why I did now) discarding always had to happen in the original place they came from... that does simplify some things :)

Seb
Member Tue Dec 07 10:12:34
Androids took me ages...
the longest one so far.

One of the later ones though... you have to put a yellow into the middle of all even numbered strings. I haven't even got an idea of how to start!

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 10:16:21
The lack of a way to just count the amount of signs you have is a problem... though of course if you would have that, it'd be a bit stupidly simple.

Robomecha is now competing for longest one so far with Androids... I've been trying all sorts of stupid things.

Most painfully I just built this huge elaborate piece of machinery that gets the first 3 right, I start to get happy and proud, but then it turns out that was just a lucky fluke that only works with short strings of symbols, as the 4th test shows the inherent crappiness of your design.

Ah... the best games are the ones you love to hate.

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 10:17:54
I think I might start another one soon and revisit robomecha later... sometimes the best sollution is to let it rest for a while... I'm not thinking clearly about it anymore.

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 10:26:20
LOL @ multiply by 8 :)

Seb
Member Tue Dec 07 10:28:22
heh heh yeah, multiple by 8 is silly.

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 10:44:24
Just got to robocop after three easy ones above it... on one hand your problems have me discouraged, on the other hand I'd feel really awesome getting it before you do ;-p

Seb
Member Tue Dec 07 10:56:13
Well, all my saved ones are at work, so you have one day before I start again :P

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 11:01:56
Sweetness! :p

Already got a first bit that only allows through even number strings... now for the hard bit :s

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 11:11:48
I just got a headache realising I'm gonna need to make some sort of special case scenario for a string of 2...

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 11:32:07
Woop woop the equipment for seperation and for solving the 2 string exceptions is in place... sure the really hard bit still needs to be done, but I'm so getting this thing solved tonight! ;-D

Cloud Strife
Member Tue Dec 07 13:41:26
Moving last to front is easy.

In fact, I assumed that you were using that technology in later ones (except without moving to the front.

Cloud Strife
Member Tue Dec 07 13:41:41
That, is identifying the last element in a string is critical.

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 16:43:20
Yeah it wasn't so hard in the end, just gotten too obsessed with it... moved back to it after trying to fit the yellow one in the middle for a bit and solved it pretty quickly. Just copy unless you meet yellow (or green if you so choice) really.

Now to get back to yellow in the middle :)

Nekran
Member Tue Dec 07 16:43:37
*chose

Seb
Member Tue Dec 07 16:58:43
Hey nekran, if you do solve the yellow in the middle one... *don't* post the principle of the solution!

saiko
Member Tue Dec 07 19:20:50
Got androids in one. Not a universal solution but it got through the test battery... :)

Nekran
Member Wed Dec 08 10:56:20
Approaching insanity...

Seb
Member Wed Dec 08 13:43:24
Saiko: CHEAT.

Nekran: I think I have figured out how to do it in princple... now trying to figure out if I can make it.

Seb
Member Wed Dec 08 17:28:48
WOOHOO

Done it :P

Seb
Member Wed Dec 08 18:05:53
I think I have been underusing string reversal...

Nekran
Member Thu Dec 09 03:36:13
Balls! Haven't had much time the past day, apart from about an hour of time before I made that last post... probably won't look at it again until monday either.

saiko
Member Thu Dec 09 04:28:50
Got the universal for Androids and I think I have Police.

Still Well
Member Thu Dec 09 11:00:44
ok Soldiers was stupid.

Still Well
Member Thu Dec 09 11:05:14
as was robotanks

Seb
Member Thu Dec 09 11:16:04
Still Well:

I think they are only supposed to be hard if you are the wrong one of those 10 types of people when it comes to binary. :P

(I'll get my coat)

Still Well
Member Thu Dec 09 14:55:48
I think I've got the put a yellow in the middle one. Tried a run at work that failed but I think I know why. Will be trying when I get home.

Rugian
Member Thu Dec 09 15:08:06
Seb
Member Thu Dec 09 11:16:04
"I think they are only supposed to be hard if you are the wrong one of those 10 types of people when it comes to binary. :P"

Ladies and gentlemen, the British sense of humo[u]r.

*groan*

Seb
Member Thu Dec 09 15:59:44
Only Accademics and the final one to go!

Rugian:
British humour has to have a victim, or be totally surreal. This was just geeky.

show deleted posts

Seb Member	Fri Dec 03 16:38:07 http://jayisgames.com/games/manufactoria/
Aeros Member	Fri Dec 03 17:06:55 The fuck is this?
Seb Member	Fri Dec 03 21:03:57 Adictive.
Cthulhu Tentacle Rapist	Fri Dec 03 21:10:03 If only mac could figure out left click function. Fuck I need a PC again.
cloud strife Member	Fri Dec 03 21:32:23 Ha.
Still Well Member	Fri Dec 03 23:18:55 nice find.
Seb Member	Sat Dec 04 00:08:09 cs is thinking about Turing machines. Probably other people are too... they should be.
Seb Member	Sat Dec 04 00:08:59 BTW, CS, if you use pen and paper you are cheating :P
Madc0w Member	Sat Dec 04 00:25:00 Is there some sort of algorithm for this? It seems like trial and error but I feel like I'm missing something...
Cloud Strife Member	Sat Dec 04 00:35:13 It reminds me of circuits.
Seb Member	Sat Dec 04 00:51:02 CS: You mathmos, so obsessed with projecting cool detachment :P Madocw: The whole game is about algorithms. Each level is about figuring out the algorithm to satisfy the requirements. Read wiki on turing machine.
Madc0w Member	Sat Dec 04 01:08:44 Yeah, it makes more sense now after playing it a little longer.
Cloud Strife Member	Sat Dec 04 01:33:41 I'm not really sure what a good mechanism of keeping count of something is, except to build a huge machine...
Cloud Strife Member	Sat Dec 04 01:41:29 I'm not really sure what a good mechanism of keeping count of something is, except to build a huge machine...
Seb Member	Sat Dec 04 01:42:38 cs: Yeah, the lack of memory sucks. I've found it better to use top and start markers for strings and using that to process a single operation for the entire string where alternate colours are available. Theoretically, you should be able to do it more rigorously with bigger machines, but space is a premium. Hold down shift to allow belts to cross other belts BTW, didn't notice that till late on. Even so, I think a few of my solutions are not real solutions, even if they pass all the tests the game throws at them, due to lack of space to do things properly.
saiko Member	Sat Dec 04 20:36:55 Nice. No apparent way to make a for loop though. While loops are easy.
cloud strife Member	Sat Dec 04 20:42:47 I liked the adding and subtracting ones. They were deep and tough.
Seb Member	Sun Dec 05 10:41:33 Yeah, the adding and subtracting ones are hard.
Nekran Member	Mon Dec 06 14:52:25 Fun stuff :)
Seb Member	Mon Dec 06 14:55:34 Urgh, trying to do the yellow in the middle of an even length string one now
Nekran Member	Mon Dec 06 15:06:20 I'm just on the 10th one or so... just finished the one that has to end like it starts... nothing too frustrating yet :)
Nekran Member	Mon Dec 06 15:31:37 Some number of blue, then the same number of red is the first one that really has me scratching my head right now :\
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Dec 06 16:28:28 That one you can beat cheaply by just putting a bunch of red blue switches on the first row, and a conveyor to the bottom. It's not complete (can fail if falls off the edge), but that string does not come as a test. Still, have to figure out how to do it to do the red then blue then red that that one unlocks. To beat it, I think first check to see that it is in fact all red than all blue. Then pull off one red at a time and find a corresponding blue and remove it. Then you are pretty much done.
Seb Member	Mon Dec 06 16:38:43 CS: All solutions must be complete... cheating is not permitted!
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Dec 06 16:43:20 Which is better? A convoluted complete algorithm that takes a ton of time and sucks. Or an elegant simple algorithm that handles everything in a fairly large set, but has constraints on machine size.
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Dec 06 16:45:54 NVM, the cheap thing solved a totally different problem anyway :p
Nekran Member	Mon Dec 06 16:50:38 Yeah that's lame, CS. It really sucks btw if you have this whole floor-filling complex piece of machinery worked out and it turns out not to quite work for everything... I'm getting close though... I know I am! twitch I'm working with writing yellows for the first sequence of blue and using the ability to pass through the ones of the other colour, thus knowing the amount and such and so... but I'm having a hard time to make it work for any number. I must not be thinking of something...
Nekran Member	Mon Dec 06 17:45:41 Finally... though I couldn't make it work until infinity... made it so it worked up 'till 8 blue, 8 red, with better organisation I'm sure I could've gone up until about 15, discarding everything that wasn't a number of 15 blue followed by 15 red, but if after the 15th red there would be a 16th red, it would've had me (a new blue would obviously have been eliminated). Wouldn't mind seeing the screenshot of one that could do it for an infinite number if one of you guys succeeded in that.
Nekran Member	Mon Dec 06 17:57:01 Playing the extremely easy swap blue for red and red for blue after that one is kind of silly :)
Seb Member	Mon Dec 06 21:15:31 Whats the level name?
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 04:44:28 Androids! Third on the first column. Ended on moving the last one to the front last night... should be easier later today now that I have a fresh head again... was really annoying myself last night knowing that it couldn't be that hard, but I kept on failing.
Seb Member	Tue Dec 07 09:26:13 I'll pm you my level code. I think it is a complete a solution as you can get....
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 09:48:41 Yaaaaaaaaargh the moving the last to the front is driving me insane still... really thought it was my late night fuzzy head that was my problem. Finding out what the last colour is and moving it to the front is no problem... but how I have to get around to removing the last one is doing my head in.
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 10:08:07 Very nice sollution... but fuck me I thought (I don't know why I did now) discarding always had to happen in the original place they came from... that does simplify some things :)
Seb Member	Tue Dec 07 10:12:34 Androids took me ages... the longest one so far. One of the later ones though... you have to put a yellow into the middle of all even numbered strings. I haven't even got an idea of how to start!
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 10:16:21 The lack of a way to just count the amount of signs you have is a problem... though of course if you would have that, it'd be a bit stupidly simple. Robomecha is now competing for longest one so far with Androids... I've been trying all sorts of stupid things. Most painfully I just built this huge elaborate piece of machinery that gets the first 3 right, I start to get happy and proud, but then it turns out that was just a lucky fluke that only works with short strings of symbols, as the 4th test shows the inherent crappiness of your design. Ah... the best games are the ones you love to hate.
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 10:17:54 I think I might start another one soon and revisit robomecha later... sometimes the best sollution is to let it rest for a while... I'm not thinking clearly about it anymore.
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 10:26:20 LOL @ multiply by 8 :)
Seb Member	Tue Dec 07 10:28:22 heh heh yeah, multiple by 8 is silly.
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 10:44:24 Just got to robocop after three easy ones above it... on one hand your problems have me discouraged, on the other hand I'd feel really awesome getting it before you do ;-p
Seb Member	Tue Dec 07 10:56:13 Well, all my saved ones are at work, so you have one day before I start again :P
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 11:01:56 Sweetness! :p Already got a first bit that only allows through even number strings... now for the hard bit :s
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 11:11:48 I just got a headache realising I'm gonna need to make some sort of special case scenario for a string of 2...
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 11:32:07 Woop woop the equipment for seperation and for solving the 2 string exceptions is in place... sure the really hard bit still needs to be done, but I'm so getting this thing solved tonight! ;-D
Cloud Strife Member	Tue Dec 07 13:41:26 Moving last to front is easy. In fact, I assumed that you were using that technology in later ones (except without moving to the front.
Cloud Strife Member	Tue Dec 07 13:41:41 That, is identifying the last element in a string is critical.
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 16:43:20 Yeah it wasn't so hard in the end, just gotten too obsessed with it... moved back to it after trying to fit the yellow one in the middle for a bit and solved it pretty quickly. Just copy unless you meet yellow (or green if you so choice) really. Now to get back to yellow in the middle :)
Nekran Member	Tue Dec 07 16:43:37 *chose
Seb Member	Tue Dec 07 16:58:43 *Hey nekran, if you do solve the yellow in the middle one... don't* post the principle of the solution!**
saiko Member	Tue Dec 07 19:20:50 Got androids in one. Not a universal solution but it got through the test battery... :)
Nekran Member	Wed Dec 08 10:56:20 Approaching insanity...
Seb Member	Wed Dec 08 13:43:24 Saiko: CHEAT. Nekran: I think I have figured out how to do it in princple... now trying to figure out if I can make it.
Seb Member	Wed Dec 08 17:28:48 WOOHOO Done it :P
Seb Member	Wed Dec 08 18:05:53 I think I have been underusing string reversal...
Nekran Member	Thu Dec 09 03:36:13 Balls! Haven't had much time the past day, apart from about an hour of time before I made that last post... probably won't look at it again until monday either.
saiko Member	Thu Dec 09 04:28:50 Got the universal for Androids and I think I have Police.
Still Well Member	Thu Dec 09 11:00:44 ok Soldiers was stupid.
Still Well Member	Thu Dec 09 11:05:14 as was robotanks
Seb Member	Thu Dec 09 11:16:04 Still Well: I think they are only supposed to be hard if you are the wrong one of those 10 types of people when it comes to binary. :P (I'll get my coat)
Still Well Member	Thu Dec 09 14:55:48 I think I've got the put a yellow in the middle one. Tried a run at work that failed but I think I know why. Will be trying when I get home.
Rugian Member	Thu Dec 09 15:08:06 Seb Member Thu Dec 09 11:16:04 "I think they are only supposed to be hard if you are the wrong one of those 10 types of people when it comes to binary. :P" Ladies and gentlemen, the British sense of humo[u]r. groan
Seb Member	Thu Dec 09 15:59:44 Only Accademics and the final one to go! Rugian: British humour has to have a victim, or be totally surreal. This was just geeky.
	show deleted posts

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