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Utopia Talk / Politics / GOP civil war
LeftEvilSodomizer
Member
Fri Sep 17 05:27:50
I love it!



http://tpm...donnell-diss-video.php?ref=fpa

Rush Limbaugh Apoplectic Over Rove's O'Donnell Diss (VIDEO)

Add Rush Limbaugh to the list of prominent conservatives tearing into Karl Rove's hide today. As Rove continued his tour slamming freshly minted Delaware Republican Senate nominee Christine O'Donnell over the considerable number of skeletons in her closet, Rush was almost literally beside himself with frustration at the idea that anyone -- much less The Architect -- would dare violate the 11th Commandment so brazenly.

O'Donnell's nomination has created deep divisions between the Republican Party and right-wing activists. Last night, Rove bashed O'Donnell -- and her chances of being elected -- and insisted that she's said a lot of "nutty things." He was attacked by some right-wingers for those comments. O'Donnell whacked him back in a televised interview this morning. And then Rove responded to O'Donnell and his right-wing critics, daring them to 'prove me wrong'. Then Palin slammed Rove. Now it's Limbaugh's turn.

"If 51 seats was really the objective -- if getting the majority is really that important, then let's go balls to the wall for Christine O'Donnell!" Limbaugh screamed on his radio show today after playing a clip of Rove's already infamous anti-O'Donnell interview on Hannity last night.

"Why not fight for it?" Limbaugh asked. "Why not fight for it? Castle's OK as the 51st vote but this woman isn't?"

Rush seemed in danger of having an aneurysm at the idea that Rove would do something as heretical as point out that O'Donnell has more than a few very serious character flaws and -- as the polls show -- is a serious underdog against her Democratic opponent in November, in a race that Republicans had once thought was theirs for the taking.

"Everyone I know that saw this was just--they were perplexed and said, 'What's going on? Why is he so mad at a Republican?'" Rush said of Rove. "Where was this anger directed at a Democrat ever?"

Limbaugh then freaked out over all the horrible character flaws about Democrats -- the late Ted Kennedy and President Obama were mentioned -- that Rove has supposedly never pointed out in an interview.

"Our Vice President Joe Biden is a known plagiarist," Rush said. "We're going to talk about Christine O'Donnell's baggage? Where is this criticism of Democrats? Where has it been?"

Watch (Rush really wigs out a few minutes in at about 3:20):
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 05:44:24

isnt it time the teabaggers and the GoP finally split once and for all? The insane teabaggers doubled the amounts of votes the GoP got but they wrecked the party at the same time.
What USA actually should have is 25% of voters vote GoP, 25% of voters vote for the racist 19th century feodal religious fundy teatollers and 50% of voters vote dem.
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:23:47
O'Donnell's opponent is too far left even for Delaware. He even claimed to be a Marxist at one time. She won't have any trouble beating him.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:48:00
Roddy and his religious fanatic idols lol...
Rot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:49:53
Claimed to be a Marxist? Does this "libertarian" have anything to back that up?
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:50:43
Come on, tell us again how religion is one of the worst evils known to man and then lets hear your hilarious on the fly excuses for every single political idol you worship having his entire moral existence drenched in religion. lol
asdasdfasdfasdfasdfa
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:51:01
HR do you, as a libertarian, want her to win?
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:55:30
As opposed to her Marxist opponent?

Yes.

As opposed to a possible Libertarian or other candidate?

I don't know.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:59:06
An article Democrat Chris Coons wrote for his college newspaper may not go over so well in corporation-friendly Delaware, where he already faces an uphill battle for Vice President Joe Bidenâ??s old Senate seat.

The title? â??Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.â??

In the article, Coons, then 21 years old and about to graduate from Amherst College, chronicled his transformation from a sheltered, conservative-minded college student who had worked for former GOP Delaware Sen. William Roth and had campaigned for Ronald Reagan in 1980 into a cynical young adult who was distrustful of American power and willing to question the American notion of free enterprise.

Coons, the New Castle County executive who is running against GOP Rep. Michael Castle for the stateâ??s open Senate seat, wrote of his political evolution in the May 23, 1985, edition of the Amherst Student.

The source of his conversion, Coons wrote, was a trip to Kenya he took during the spring semester of his junior yearâ??a time away from America, he wrote, that served as a â??catalystâ?? in altering a conservative political outlook that he was growing increasingly uncomfortable with.

â??My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists,â?? Coons wrote, noting that at one time he had been a â??proud founding member of the Amherst College Republicans.â??

â??[I]t is only too easy to return from Africa glad to be American and smugly thankful for our wealth and freedom,â?? added Coons. â??Instead, Amherst had taught me to question, so in turn I questioned Amherst, and America.â??

Dave Hoffman, a Coons campaign spokesman, said the title of the article was designed as a humorous take-off on a joke Coonsâ??s college friends had made about how his time outside the country had affected his outlook.

Hoffman said the trip to Kenya helped lead to Coonsâ??s decision to become a Democrat.

â??Chris wrote an article about a transformative experience during his semester in Kenya more than twenty-five years ago,â?? said Hoffman in a statement to POLITICO. â??After witnessing crushing poverty and the consequences of the Reagan Administrationâ??s â??constructive engagementâ?? with the South African apartheid regime, he rethought his political views, returned to the America he loved and proudly registered as a Democrat.â??

In one passage of the article, Coons explains how in the months leading up to the trip abroad â??leftistsâ?? on campus and college professors had begun to â??challenge the basic assumptionsâ?? he had formed about America.

A course on cultural anthropology, noted Coons, had â??undermined the accepted value of progress and the cultural superiority of the West,â?? while a class on the Vietnam War led him to â??suspectâ?¦that the ideal of America as a â??beacon of freedom and justice, providing hope for the worldâ?? was not exactly based in reality.â??

For Coons, Kenya was an especially jarring experience that significantly influenced his already-changing political beliefs. He wrote that he was particularly troubled by his experience with Kenyan elites, who he said were utterly dismissive of the poor.

â??I became friends with a very wealthy businessman and his family and heard them reiterate the same beliefs held by many Americans: the poor are poor because they are lazy, slovenly, uneducated,â?? wrote Coons. â??I realize that Kenya and America are very different, but experiences like this warned me that my own favorite beliefs in the miracles of free enterprise and the boundless opportunities to be had in America were largely untrue.â??

Coons wrote that upon his return to Amherst for his senior year he realized that, while he had discovered the faults of his country, he had also â??returned to loving America.â??
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 08:59:29
so as usual, hot cunt is proven a lying fucking bastard
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:01:37

'Beck attacks Chris Coons as "a Marxist,"'

Roddy, the mind controlled Beck Bot lol
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:17:25

FYI, Coons is the one who wrote the article and the title for the article. He is calling himself a Marxist.

"In May 1985 Chris Coons wrote an article for his college newspaper, The Amherst Student, titled "Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist.""

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/71754


"Marxism is intellectualism for stupid people."



"I'm going to be very honest with you - Chris Coons, everybody knows him in the Democratic caucus. He's my pet. He's my favorite candidate."

~Harry Reid
Average American
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:22:24
Stop lying fucking cunt.

"My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists" Coons wrote".

Chris coons is a marxist = a lie by Beck, perpetuated by HR.

Now that you were thoroughly proven to be disseminating Becks lies as you are so infamous for, why will you continue to say this? The next time you tell this lie (and you will never stop lying that he's a marxist), it cant be blamed on you being misled by Beck, it will be you choosing to lie with intent, since you now know the truth. Why are you like this? What made you scorn honesty to the point of utter absurdity?
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:28:50
You have not proved anything except you know how to rant without proof.

I gave you a link that clearly states Coons wrote the article *AND THE* title. Disprove it or go away AH.


BTW, I have only seen about 15 minutes of Beck in the last two weeks. I have been either busy or napping while he has been on.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:30:26
lying cunt,

"My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists" Coons wrote" at 21 when he was in college.

To pretend that means he is in present time a marxist isnt even worth adressing, you lying fucking bastard.

Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:33:24
A college paper when he was 21 is to define his political beliefs? Have you even read the paper? Already people are putting implications there.

We already had people take things out of context already, remember the Shirely Sherrod fiasco.

Seriously...
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:36:42
Oh oh oh guess what! He wrote articles at college as a conservative too! This proves he's a conservative! Just like hilary clinton!

Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:37:16
It's the title of the paper due to the content and message and the hyperbole behind it. It's usually what authors do and have been doing for years when they right a HEADLINE.

There are thousands of papers and articles with HEADLINES that are wrote to capture your attention and you automatically presume that is the theme or they are describing themselves where in reality its a label that others may place on them.

So judging by his voting records and offices held has any of his previous actions indicated that he is a "marxist" or ever has gone out and promoted "marxists beliefs"?

Prove it.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:37:19
* you snivelling, lying cocksucker
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:38:22
"and you automatically presume that is the theme or they are describing themselves "

No he doesnt. He didnt care whether it was true or not. It was filth that he could sling at a democrat and thats all he wanted.
Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:39:37
"I gave you a link that clearly states Coons wrote the article *AND THE* title. "

No one is arguing against the title. However it's a paper that I am sure that you and most of us haven't read so therefore we do not know the contents of the paper, except for the excerpts we are seeing that are most likely being taken out of context. But that's how you function right? Or should we forget about such instances. i.e. Shirley Sherrod.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:39:56
Hot Rod Jun 18th, 2008 1:56 PM

I will tell lies about the democrats because I think they are more dangerous than the republicans.

Does that clear things up? :)
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:40:07
No one said he was. All I said was he called himself a Marxist at one time which is irrefutably true.

You third worlders really need to brush up on your ESL.

"He even claimed to be a Marxist at one time."


Now if you want to quote where I said, "As opposed to her Marxist opponent?" Let me give you another English lesson.

I had already made it clear that he had called himself a Marxist at one time. The latter statement is how most people, including myself, will perceive him in November.

Wheter he is now a Marxist or not is moot. He will be perceived as such.
Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:41:19
Yep, that's exactly what he did. Notice how he doesn't want to debate the content of the paper, just the title because it had a 'naughty' word "marxist" in the title. Or show somehow during his political career that he tried to implement any 'marxist' policies.

Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:41:26
Conservative, see my last post.
Clitoral Hood
The Bloody Scourge
Fri Sep 17 09:43:18
"All I said was he called himself a Marxist at one time which is irrefutably true."

one title and one excerpt doesn't prove that, retard. read the article and give us direct quotes with context explicitly saying he considered himself a marxist or shut the fuck up. you claimed at one point to have graduated high school, and I'm starting to understand why both my parents are pretty moronic yet have college degrees.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:43:37
Hot Rod: "I will lie about Democrats in order to keep them out of power."
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:43:44
"No one said he was."

Here you did, lying son of a whore:

Hot Rod
Member Fri Sep 17 08:55:30
As opposed to her Marxist opponent?


"All I said was he called himself a Marxist at one time"

"He is calling himself a Marxist."

Present time.

Lying, lying, lying cunt.
Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:44:56
"No one said he was. All I said was he called himself a Marxist at one time which is irrefutably true. "

That was the title of the paper without context put behind that you are perpetrating as truth that his political views are "marxist".

Yes, let's have an english lesson dipshit.

"He even claimed to be a Marxist at one time. " -Hot Rod

That implies or clearly states that he was a Communist. Those are your words. You are saying that based on a paper he wrote without reading the contents or understanding the context of what is behind the title or the paper.

Thanks for proving once again that you're a hack. Messer "Libertarian".
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:48:07
Con - Notice how he doesn't want to debate the content of the paper...


I don't care about the content the title is what is important now.

"Whether he is now a Marxist or not is moot. He will be perceived as such."


I'm sure the article may very well explain the title and it may very well be nothing to it.

But the title is what people will remember. Just think of it as youthful misspeak that may very well rise up and bite him on the ass.
Glenn Beck
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:48:53
By writing Marxist this shows irrefutably that he is a Marxist. Our country is dying and this is the end of the world as we know it.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:50:51
"I don't care about the content" = I dont want to know the truth when smearing someone.

hot rod, you never did answer the question? When that whore was shoving a clothes hanger in her cunt trying to kill you behind a dumpster, did she pierce your brain you snivelling lying, brain damaged filth?
Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:51:09
"I don't care about the content the title is what is important now."

Obviously, then it's an unfair accusation by you and other dipshits that are using this as an attack to claim he is a "Marxist".


"I'm sure the article may very well explain the title and it may very well be nothing to it.

But the title is what people will remember. Just think of it as youthful misspeak that may very well rise up and bite him on the ass. "

That title is what people will remember when dipshits with no objectiviy and extreme rightwingers will focus and advertise it as he is a marxist such as what you are doing presently.

Thank you for being a slave.
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:56:01
>-That title is what people will remember when dipshits with no objectiviy and extreme rightwingers will focus and advertise it as he is a marxist such as what you are doing presently.


BS, you are wasting my time.

I'm trying to explain a little bit about American Politics to you and you are saying it should be different. I agree, it should be different.

*BUT IT IS NOT*.

Been a pleasure.
Rugian
Member
Fri Sep 17 09:58:28
"I'm trying to explain a little bit about American Politics to you and you are saying it should be different. I agree, it should be different."

So you agree that the title should not be important, but that it will be only because most voters have a very deficient understanding of the candidates and context?
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:04:26
>-So you agree that the title should not be important, but that it will be only because most voters have a very deficient understanding of the candidates and context?


Yes, I am afraid the majority of voters will take it at face value rather than researching the article to find out what it is all about.

I don't intend to spend any time on iot because I can't vote one way or the other.


Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:10:33
Lie #1:

Hot Lying Shitstain - "No one said he was (a marxist)."

Hot Lying Shitstain - "As opposed to her Marxist opponent?"


Lie #2:

Hot Lying Shitstain - "All I said was he called himself a Marxist at one time which is irrefutably true."

Hot Lying Shitstain - "He is calling himself a Marxist." (present time again)


Lie #3:

Hot Lying Shitstain - "All I said was he called himself a Marxist at one time which is irrefutably true"

He did not call himself a marxist in anything anyone here has read. He based an article title on a joke made by his friends. Another irrefutable lie.

Just a few random, proven everyday lies that
the Lying, Lying, Lying Cunt vomits in every thread, every day.

"Yes, I am afraid the majority of voters will take it at face value rather than researching the article to find out what it is all about. "

If you are afraid of it, you utter lying whore, why are you doing it yourself, you fucking bastard? Kill yourself you sick slime.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:17:35
Let's be fair here, the guy did not call himself a Marxist at least not from anything I have read so far. With that said, even if it isn't true having too close an affiliation with Harry Reid is just as toxic and is going to cost him. Now I realize that Chris Coons is attempting to distance himself from Reid, but that was a pretty bold statement and people are going to remember it in two months. I don't know if it was enough to make the difference but Reid may have just stabbed his own pet in the back.
Conservative
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:17:53
"BS, you are wasting my time.

I'm trying to explain a little bit about American Politics to you and you are saying it should be different. I agree, it should be different. "

First off I'm American from Kentuckey to be precised. Secondly, no you are not, what you are doing is the usual Hot Rod hack job. If that was your point it probably would have made more sense to enter this thread and probably say "this coons guy wrote a paper title "...bearded marxist" and this may hurt him in the elections.

Well, that's what you are claiming you are trying to convey, others are smart enough not to fall for your bullshit.

Because fact 1; He is already an established politician who has held other offices and his "marxisism" was hardly or never an issue before.

Fact 2: You already established that you have no desire, just like your other extreme right wingers, including Glenn Beck will not research it's contents, so yes the attention brought forth was nothing more than your usually hackery, Messer "Libertarian.

Do not sit there and hide behind the words you have said in this thread.

Let us review;

O'Donnell's opponent is too far left even for Delaware. He even claimed to be a Marxist at one time. - Hot Rod

You're done.
LazyCommunist
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:21:33
The usual HR tactics: if a topic is negative about the GOP and he is unable to refute he, he switches to bashing the democrats.

If only people here (yes you AH) would not always follow HR on his distraction.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INTERNAL GOP FIGHTING.

Get this now idiots?
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:22:37
See now valishin?
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:23:17
Valishin,

So how much are you still in agreement with molester Rod's beliefs?

Check this thread and molester Rod's trolling if you are still wavering.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:23:32
lazycommie is right, another HR thread hijack. Back to topic.
Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:25:31
Con - First off I'm American from Kentuckey to be precised.


To be what?
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:27:48
Hey, thats a smart comeback, lying son of a rotting whore, a mistyped letter! Man, you are the intellectual shit!

Hot Rod
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:28:34
gtg, bye bye.


You are right, I could have said it better.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:30:18
I didnt say that, and no you are wrong, of course.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:31:11
There are a number of things I agree with him on. He is entirely accurate in his assessment in this situation that Coons will be percieved as a Marxist and it is going to hurt him. I do however agree that perception is not neccessarly reality in this case. Of course, Reid being thrilled enough to refer to Coons as his pet is more than reason enough not to put this guy in office so either way you end up with the same result.

This is a good example of the problem you guys have with HR, he actually has a valid point however the treatment he has received over there years has turned his methods toxic. You guys made him this way. I simply weight what I know he is capable of against his current methods and give leyway for the way he was treated. As such he gets a lot of leyway for saying provokative things to make an associated valid point. Back in the day I wouldn't have given him that leyway but now its your mess you created him have at it.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:32:22
Hot Lying Shitstain - "gtg, bye bye."

lie #4 in this thread alone. You dont got to go anywhere, you're going to stay right here lurking as you do every single day when you get caught stuck in your tangled web of pre-adolescent lying, you fucking prick.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:34:14
my point exactly, why was that neccessary
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:34:17
"You guys made him this way."

He made me this way.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:36:45
"my point exactly, why was that neccessary "

Because he's lying us right in our faces and has done since the first time I ever read his posts. because he's genocidal. Because he's racist. Because he lies about all these things. Because treating a genocidal liar decently is indecent. Because one doesnt treat genocidal, lying bastards decently, that is immoral.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:36:52
I had always assumed you were a someone from the old board who renamed himself, however if you're not then you might be a casuality of a war you weren't original part of. However, I was there he didn't start that war and I still see it rear its head from time to time often by you ironically.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:41:42
Oh, Im never going to let him enjoy ruining the board with his genocidal, unintelligent, lying vomit. If this was in real life at say a pub, and someone came up and told me the kind of disgusting, racist, genocidal lies that hot cunt does, I'd say: "listen, I think youre a fucking retard and you're ruining my evening. Im going to go over there and drink my beer" and if he continued anyway, I'd punch his fucking teeth in.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:45:02
Maybe if you toned down the retoric once in a while and attempted an honest discussion with him you wouldn't have this problem. For instance, he made a mistake in how he presented his arguement and was willing to admit that in this thread. I have seen you make the same types of mistakes in the past and never seen you admit your failing. We all have, although I like to think I am more willing to admit mistakes than most; I am sure there were times I didn't admit them either.

End result, from the perspective of someone looking from the outside in your frustrations with HR seem much more connected to his disagreement with your views than his tactics. Are his tactics toxic from time to time yes but considering the treatement he gets who can blame him.

With that said, HR maybe it is time for you to give peace a chance again. I know it didn't work for you last time as they kept attacking you for reasons other than your political views but maybe these discussions will help.
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:45:55
"To pretend that means he is in present time a marxist isnt even worth adressing"

You are exactly correct.

It is also unfair to judge Christine O'Donnell on something she said over a decade ago on a MTV show called Sex in the 90s.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:47:23
"Maybe if you toned down the retoric once in a while and attempted an honest discussion with him you wouldn't have this problem."

This is completely incorrect. Ive tried hundreds of times. Possibly thousands. Ive certainly read thousands of attempts. He is a genocidal lying bastard and will remain so all his life.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:49:21
"It is also unfair to judge Christine O'Donnell on something she said over a decade ago on a MTV show called Sex in the 90s. "

So she doesnt believe that anymore, since you're comparing this to an accusation that someone who isnt a marxist today wrote an article about how people joked about him coming home from kenya a bearded marxist?
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:50:25
"There are a number of things I agree with him on. He is entirely accurate in his assessment in this situation that Coons will be percieved as a Marxist"

Is that right? Check out molester Rod's initial "assessment," and by assessment, I mean trolling:

"He even claimed to be a Marxist at one time." And "As opposed to her Marxist opponent [Coon]?"

molester Rod clearly stated that Coon claims himself to be a Marxist, and that molester Rod also believed that Coon to be a Marxist. This is different from his subsequent claim that Coon will be perceived as one by the electorate as he tried to change his tune after getting caught for lying (wow, again?)

"You guys made him this way."

Yes, when you have been caught lying and faking your own death, you will be treated very harshly.

Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:51:54
It is also unfair to judge Christine O'Donnell on something she said over a decade ago on a MTV show called Sex in the 90s.

In that specific case, I have to disagree. I think it is perfectly fair to use her judgement to view her as someone who at least claims to be striving for high personal standards. As such if we to find a sex video of her then that would hurt her more than it would someone else. But on the flip side she should get the benefit of the so called "high moral fiber".

What is unfair is assuming that the high moral standard she is setting for herself is a reflection of her political agenda. In other words, why doesn't the media just ask her: If elected to the Senate would you push anti-masterbation legislation?
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:53:42
"Maybe if you toned down the retoric once in a while and attempted an honest discussion with him you wouldn't have this problem."

Wait. You serious?

Did you not see this thread where he purposefully deleted another poster's quote to make it look differently than what the poster had written?

http://www...hread=38367&time=1284641872136


If you felt some sort of kindred spirits with molester rod simply because he is a retarded conservative, then I don't know what else to say.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 10:56:10
"If elected to the Senate would you push anti-masterbation legislation?"

This is just dumbing it down. That doesnt remove the inherent stupidity behind her comment which is an expression of a moral code that is backwards, completely unscientific and unhealthy.

If someone who was convicted of pedophilia runs for office, the matter doesnt end if you ask him: "If elected to the Senate would you push pro-pedophilia legislation?" "No Sir, no I would not".

CrownRoyal
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:00:08
I like this O'Donnell gem better.

"The O'Reilly Factor," November 15, 2007.

O'Donnell: "American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311946,00.html
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:01:27
"What is unfair is assuming that the high moral standard she is setting for herself is a reflection of her political agenda. In other words, why doesn't the media just ask her: If elected to the Senate would you push anti-masterbation legislation?"

Agreed. I should have been more specific with my message though. In the other thread some people wondered what this view had to do with politics and what kind of nut-job would mention masterbation being a sin as a political view. As it turns out the comment was made on a show talking specifically about sex so it is unfair to take that statement based on when and where it was made and hold it against her politically.
She was a big advocate of the government promoting abstanence and lobbied for a group promoting abstanence, so that is something that would be fair game to ask her about, and see where she stands on legislation in that area.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:01:58
jesus fucking christ.

Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:04:44
Come on kargen, I bet you can churn some horseshit nonsense excuse about the crownroyal quote while youre at it. valishin and HR will fall for it at least.
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:18:28
Adolf, reading comprehension can be your friend. Get some.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:24:31
And yet, I'm more literate than you, in fact I'm schooled and work within literature, so I have to smile at the irony of your ignorance. Come on, wheres your nonsense horseshit excuse for the mice with human brains quote?

Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:26:49
"This is just dumbing it down. That doesnt remove the inherent stupidity behind her comment which is an expression of a moral code that is backwards, completely unscientific and unhealthy."

See you can't even discuss someone with a different view than you without being insulting. Why do you seem to assume the authority to determine what is in or out of bounds as acceptable anyway? Specific to this issue who made you the determining factor on what is inherent stupidity. In my personal opinion, inherent stupidity is the lack of ability or willingness to view and rationally discuss an arugement you may not neccessarly agree with. And for the use of the term "backwards" in my mind that is basicly a concession of the arguement and an admittance that you don't have any valid points to make. I will let eveyone else decide to whom that may or may not apply.

As for this specific example, she is taking a position that is shared by millions and millions of others and is entirely in line with the religious text that dominates the majority of hearts and minds of our society. Most of us aren't as adamant about it as she is.


"If someone who was convicted of pedophilia runs for office, the matter doesnt end if you ask him: "If elected to the Senate would you push pro-pedophilia legislation?" "No Sir, no I would not"."

Let's see here using your example. The pedophilia has a track record of forcing his personal views on someone else. The woman claiming to hold a high moral standard does not have a track record of forcing her personal views on someone else. I am not sure were you are making the connection.



"Come on kargen, I bet you can churn some horseshit nonsense excuse about the crownroyal quote while youre at it. valishin and HR will fall for it at least."

In all fairness, I read CrownRoyal's link and she did make the statement. However, when I read over it the first time in my mind I inserted the word "trying" thus making the statement logical which based on context seems very likely the statement she intented to make and entirely changes the "insanity" of her statement. So, if this is a concern by all means let the media ask her to clarify her statement. If she returns a nut job answer then she is a nut job, but that one seems a pretty reasonable misstatement.

Now if you don't want to support her because she doesn't want to support cloning then that is understandable but hardly makes her a nut.

That doesn't mean she isn't a nut, just that the evidence of her nuttyness at this point is suspect.
CrownRoyal
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:30:13
"However, when I read over it the first time in my mind I inserted the word "trying" thus making the statement logical "

Well, this is certainly an interesting way to evaluate people. I am positive I can make any insane statement "logical", using this method.
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:31:42
"I inserted the word "trying" thus making the statement logical which based on context seems very likely the statement she intented to make and entirely changes the "insanity" of her statement."

Which lab and which American scientist is trying to do that, Valinshin?
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:32:38
Oh, btw, so you just magically insert words into people's quotes to make them look logical?

That's awesome.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:34:12
""This is just dumbing it down. That doesnt remove the inherent stupidity behind her comment which is an expression of a moral code that is backwards, completely unscientific and unhealthy."

See you can't even discuss someone with a different view than you without being insulting."

See, I wasnt insulted, I was clarifying the fallacy of that comment, based on scientifically correct and sound judgment. Saying masturbation is a sin is an expression of a moral code that is backwards, completely unscientific and unhealthy.


""American scientific companies are cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains." == a pretty reasonable misstatement? If you insert 'trying' its ok? Can we all insert words into retarded claims? Yes. this is getting right down to HR nonsensical pretend debate.
Really, the only thing you insult is my intelligence.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:39:24
"Well, this is certainly an interesting way to evaluate people. I am positive I can make any insane statement "logical", using this method."

I am not saying that my assumption is accurate just that if she ment it the way I originally read it then it isn't a "call the guys in the white coats" kind of alarm. Considering how often people make those kinds of mistakes on TV and that it would be a logical version of the statement then I think we can give her the benefit of the doubt long enough to ask her about it. If she insists that they are making mice with human brains at this point then you have a valid point for her being in cookoo land. If not then it is an understandable mistake.


"Which lab and which American scientist is trying to do that, Valinshin?"

Stanford University, Researcher Irving Weissman
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:43:50
Oh? Here is a description of his research:

Irving L. Weissman's research encompasses the phylogeny and developmental biology of the cells that make up the blood-forming and immune systems. His laboratory identified and isolated the blood-forming stem cell from mice, and has defined, by lineage analysis, the stages of development between the stem cells and mature progeny (granulocytes, macrophages, etc.). This required developing and cloning stromal cells of the hematolymphoid microenvironmentsâ??from the bone marrow for myeloid and B cells, and from the thymus for T cells. While the adhesion molecules and factors from these stromal cells proved important as molecules (and the genes that encode them) for myeloid and B cells, the analysis of T cell development required in vivo studies of thymic development. In addition, the Weissman laboratory has pioneered the study of the genes and proteins involved in cell adhesion events required for lymphocyte homing to lymphoid organs in vivo, either as a normal function or as events involved in malignant leukemic metastases.

Where does it indicate that a human brain is being developed?

Or are you magically inserting words into other people's quotes and speeches again to make them appear to say something completely different?
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:47:13
Let me rephrase, that a functioning brain is being developed.
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:49:23
I also copied his most recently publications in 2010:

# Anti-CD47 antibody synergizes with rituximab to promote phagocytosis and eradicate non-Hodgkin lymphoma. Chao MP, Alizadeh AA, Tang C, Myklebust JH, Varghese B, Gill S, Jan M, Cha AC, Chan CK, Tan BT, Park CY, Zhao F, Kohrt HE, Malumbres R, Briones J, Gascoyne RD, Lossos IS, Levy R, Weissman IL, Majeti R. Cell. 2010; 142 (5): 699-713

# Cancer stem cells in bladder cancer: a revisited and evolving concept. Chan KS, Volkmer JP, Weissman I. Curr Opin Urol. 2010; 20 (5): 393-7

# Coronary arteries form by developmental reprogramming of venous cells. Red-Horse K, Ueno H, Weissman IL, Krasnow MA. Nature. 2010; 464 (7288): 549-53

# Differential DNA damage response in stem and progenitor cells. Seita J, Rossi DJ, Weissman IL. Cell Stem Cell. 2010; 7 (2): 145-7

# Distinguishing mast cell and granulocyte differentiation at the single-cell level. Franco CB, Chen CC, Drukker M, Weissman IL, Galli SJ. Cell Stem Cell. 2010; 6 (4): 361-8

# Human melanoma-initiating cells express neural crest nerve growth factor receptor CD271. Boiko AD, Razorenova OV, van de Rijn M, Swetter SM, Johnson DL, Ly DP, Butler PD, Yang GP, Joshua B, Kaplan MJ, Longaker MT, Weissman IL. Nature. 2010; 466 (7302): 133-7

# Macrophages as mediators of tumor immunosurveillance. Jaiswal S, Chao MP, Majeti R, Weissman IL. Trends Immunol. 2010; 31 (6): 212-9

# MiDReG: a method of mining developmentally regulated genes using Boolean implications. Sahoo D, Seita J, Bhattacharya D, Inlay MA, Weissman IL, Plevritis SK, Dill DL. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2010; 107 (13): 5732-7

# Purified hematopoietic stem cell transplantation: the next generation of blood and immune replacement. Czechowicz A, Weissman IL. Immunol Allergy Clin North Am. 2010; 30 (2): 159-71

# The origin and fate of yolk sac hematopoiesis: application of chimera analyses to developmental studies. Ueno H, Weissman IL. Int J Dev Biol. 2010; 54 (6-7): 1019-31


Which publication indicates that he is trying to develop a functioning human brains in mice?
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:52:38
I never said that a functioning brain was being developed. However, you guys bit on this one like she was in left. I pointed out that maybe she made a mistake in her verbage. I will even go so far as to say she her conclusion about what they are trying to do is off. However, when scientists are putting human brain cells into mice then you point to a person referencing this reasearch and making the connection that they are trying to grow human brain cells that is a far cry from being bat shit crazy which is what you guys are trying to claim.

Don't get me wrong, I still think she might be bat shit crazy I just don't see any evidence of it at this time. I also think her stance against cloning for medical research is a mark against her politically and she should be held accountable for that. I don't think it is reason enough to vote for her or to not vote for her but that is my personal opinion.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:57:45
Trying to cure cancer with experiments on mice, Valishin, is not on the same planet as "cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains", no matter how many words you insert. Pretending those two comments are even on the same continent is all one needs to realize this person is ignorant as a brick.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 11:59:29
They've probably inserted human cells in vegetables as well. That does not mean that ""cross-breeding humans and cucumbers and coming up with cucumbers with fully functioning human brains" is anything but fucking retardness, though it is at the same level as the original quote.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:01:03
And even if you insert '"cross-breeding humans and animals and *trying* to come up with mice with fully functioning human brains" is still ignorance that belongs to a different century, alternatively a complete lie about what they're trying to do.

miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:01:45
""However, when scientists are putting human brain cells into mice then you point to a person referencing this reasearch and making the connection that they are trying to grow human brain cells that is a far cry from being bat shit crazy which is what you guys are trying to claim."

Who is this "person" referencing Dr. Weissman's work and claiming that Weissman is trying to develop a human brain in mice?

And has Dr. Weissman acknowledged this to be true?
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:14:25
Youre pretty disappointing valishin. I'll tell you why I can be the judge of this persons mental incapacity; because I cannot possibly envision myself being told that this guy is putting functioning human brains in mice and not checking it up myself first. I wouldnt even mention it at UP without checking it, let alone say it on TV while chasing political office. Thats just unthinkable. Every braincell would be telling me: "this is unintelligent. This is stupid", and I would of course be making the correct call. She says something so wrong that my intelligence level would not permit me to do. Now I know she's at least somewhat stupid and frighteningly ignorant for this century.

Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:17:00
"Trying to cure cancer with experiments on mice, Valishin, is not on the same planet as "cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains""

It is if you are putting human brain cells into mice in the process. There is a difference in objectives as one is more nobel than the other. However, agree with them or not the anti-cloning crowd's point is about moving beyond where we should even if the cause is nobel because where it may lead to. You obviously don't agree with them and quite frankly neither do I. However, that doesn't make their point any less valid.


"And even if you insert '"cross-breeding humans and animals and *trying* to come up with mice with fully functioning human brains" is still ignorance that belongs to a different century"

How very judgemental. Why does it belong to a different century?


"Who is this "person" referencing Dr. Weissman's work and claiming that Weissman is trying to develop a human brain in mice?"

http://www...gy/technovel_mouse_050217.html
kargen
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:22:46
"Come on, wheres your nonsense horseshit excuse for the mice with human brains quote?"

Haven't researched it yet. Unlike you I don't just hop in on any and every topic no matter my ignorance on the subject.

had to go meet a client so I haven't even had time to finish reading this thread yet.

"And yet, I'm more literate than you, in fact I'm schooled and work within literature,"

So you are pretending to be severely difficient in reading comprehension skills? If so you are pulling in off marvously. If you took just, oh half a second, to ponder what I wrote in the message above you would see I obvioulsy wasn't throwing her my support. I said her lobbying congress about abstaining from sex was more of a concern than what she said on an MTV talk show about sex over a decade ago.

Have another client on the way (actually I guess this time I am the client) so will be a bit longer before I can check into the mice with super brains comments.
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:29:09
"It is if you are putting human brain cells into mice in the process."

Why, Valishin, does this constitute a development of a human brain?

Do you consider brain to be without human cognition and devoid of experiences and therefore, can be "grown" in mice?

""Who is this "person" referencing Dr. Weissman's work and claiming that Weissman is trying to develop a human brain in mice?"

Do you find this idiot credible, Valinshin?
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:29:36
Your atrocious spelling hurts my literate senses. This is why its pretty funny to see you think of yourself as literately superior. Its kind of like when your equally educated pal Grrrdy lectures scientists here on science. It's mind-boggling and all you can do is laugh. As for not reading your whole post, I've explained that to you before. You're in the same category as HR and JB. 99% of the times I get the nonsense you guys post within 3-4 words and its always stupid, the 1% of the times I didn't get the gist still is irrelevant, because experience and being a literate man, unlike you, has taught me it's going to be nonsense anyway.
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:29:57
P.S. Weissman injects stem cells, not brain cells into animals.
asdasdfasdfasdfasdfa
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:30:09
The link you have given contradicts you Valishin:
http://www...gy/technovel_mouse_050217.html
"We concluded that if we see any signs of human brain structures . . . or if the mouse shows human-like behaviors, like improved memory or problem-solving, it's time to stop."

They are *NOT* trying to develop fully funcition human brains in mice.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:32:02
"Unlike you I don't just hop in on any and every topic no matter my ignorance on the subject."

See, I read a little further and just as I said: nonsense. I always check my claims at google before stating them and I'm not alone in this at UP, thats why you, JB and HR can never catch me being as wrong as you guys are. Oh you'll claim you can, but you cant provide a single example. Ever.
miltonfriedman
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:38:23
Look Valinshin, I don't really care that you bought into the human-mice crossbreeding crap. But in an effort to preserve the sanctity of science, here are some of the works that are being done.

1. The team injects STEM CELLS
2. If you clicked on the link provided by that idiotic author, then the full report reads:

"Stanford biologist Irving Weissman's research team would inject human cells into developing mice. Some cells would be cancerous or have other diseases while others would be perfectly healthy.

While the team has no immediate plans to create the human-mouse chimera"


You got that? In case you can't comprehend it (To tell you the truth, I have difficulty reading retards trying to report science), here is the gist:

THERE IS NO PLAN TO DEVELOP ANYTHING RELATED TO HUMAN BRAIN IN MICE



So, are you done now, Valinshin? Are you ready to retract your earlier claim that O'Donnell's claim has a kernel of truth to it?
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:44:40
""Trying to cure cancer with experiments on mice, Valishin, is not on the same planet as "cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains""

It is if you are putting human brain cells into mice in the process."

No its fucking not. Thats your last chance. I now know you are not very intelligent (I knew all the time, but I wanted to give you a chance). You're in the HR, kargen, JB basket now. The laugh-at-basket.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:50:56
""And even if you insert '"cross-breeding humans and animals and *trying* to come up with mice with fully functioning human brains" is still ignorance that belongs to a different century"

How very judgemental. Why does it belong to a different century? "

Yeah, I judge you now, because my intelligence is superior. From the higher vantage point of my intelligence level, I can correctly say this is a retarded statement. You are judged an idiot. Dont worry, kargen will be along to claim literate superiority with 3-4 spelling mistakes per sentence. You religious tards, you're too much lol
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 12:57:43
"Why, Valishin, does this constitute a development of a human brain?"

Placing human brain cells into a mouses brain is attempting to grow human brain cells or at the very least a hybrid between the two. I am perfectly comfortable with this practice mind you.


"Weissman injects stem cells, not brain cells into animals"

Fair enough, but the point stands about growning brain cells. You do realize what stem cells do right?


"The link you have given contradicts you Valishin: "

No it doesn't, I never said the researchers weren't being reasonable and considerate of the concerns about going to far. I am talking about her views of their research and how her claim while I agree worded poorly is valid and so are her concerns. As you point out even the researcher team recognizes those same concerns. Now, I think she puts too much weight in those concerns as do many people who argue against cloning for medical research. Thus their stance of it is too dangerious to even attempt. However, the point of all this is that her stance is valid. I may not agree with it but it is valid and more importantly does not make her bat shit crazy.

Although, I still have a sinking feeling that she is bat shit crazy. I just can't prove it.


"Your atrocious spelling hurts my literate senses."

Consider my dislike for so much we deem literature at least in the classic academic sense, I am perfectly ok with that. I don't spell check on purpose.


"This is why its pretty funny to see you think of yourself as literately superior"

Where did you get that idea? I am many things, I have even claimed a few of them, superior not one of them.


"While the team has no immediate plans to create the human-mouse chimera""

I never said they were. I limit my comments to the arguement of validity of the candidate specifically the question of her sanity.


"So, are you done now, Valinshin? Are you ready to retract your earlier claim that O'Donnell's claim has a kernel of truth to it?"

Here's the problem. From her view point the statement is true based on what they are attempting to do. Do I agree with her fears over the severity of the issue, of course not. But based on her perspective although not the most popular perspective it is still valid.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 13:16:59
"Your atrocious spelling hurts my literate senses."

...was adressed to kargen, who humorously tried to have a whack at my literacy, from his lower literacy level.
Nekran
Member
Fri Sep 17 13:19:48
Pretty lame to make 3 spelling errors in that very post though.
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 13:26:16
""Trying to cure cancer with experiments on mice, Valishin, is not on the same planet as "cross-breeding humans and animals and coming up with mice with fully functioning human brains""

It is if you are putting human brain cells into mice in the process. There is a difference in objectives as one is more nobel than the other. However, agree with them or not the anti-cloning crowd's point is about moving beyond where we should even if the cause is nobel because where it may lead to. You obviously don't agree with them and quite frankly neither do I. However, that doesn't make their point any less valid. "

This is all complete BS. Its not valid, because its not true. Its not even imaginable that there wouldn't be huge ethical protests from not just the moral majority but the science world as well if they were trying to put functioning human brains in mice. You have to be out of touch with the real world to think this could possibly be a correct understanding of whats going on in science or/and be a science hater, as is probably the case in this religious lunatics case. Its not valid, its idiotic, unbelievable (to a thinking person) science fiction nonsense.
Valishin
Member
Fri Sep 17 13:26:18
ah sorry, I thought it was a carry over from the other day when you referenced my bad spelling because I don't spell check
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 13:28:41
"So you are pretending to be severely difficient in reading comprehension skills? If so you are pulling in off marvously. If you took just, oh half a second, to ponder what I wrote in the message above you would see I obvioulsy wasn't throwing her my support."

Well 4...
Adolf Hitler
Member
Fri Sep 17 13:29:33
Who spell checks? I don't.
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