Utopia Talk / Politics / One Final Question on The Mosque.

Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 18:47:50 What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities? All the worst things that can be imagined about it turn out to be true. What will you people do then?
Asgard Member	Tue Aug 17 18:48:32 ^Proof HR is JB. He uses his other account here to hide the fact he's spamming again.
chen Member	Tue Aug 17 18:53:47 What if they build a church and it turns out just to be a front for producing child pornography and hiding perverts? What will you do then?
chen Member	Tue Aug 17 18:56:00 "What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities?" What kind of answer are you looking for anyway? 'I would hold that against all Muslims and wouldn't allow them to build any more mosques anywhere in the country.'
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 18:57:03 An honest answer if you have one.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 18:59:49 So much has been said about not building it. I am curious what the thinking is on how to handle it if the worst possible scenario occurs after it is built. I am sure there are a number of different POV.
smart dude Member	Tue Aug 17 19:00:27 I don't know what I would "do", but I would want the persons responsible to suffer all the punishments that a terrorist organization should receive... If you are attempting to persuade to us rational folk that the freedom of religion is a mistake, you have failed.
chen Member	Tue Aug 17 19:01:15 I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if that's what you're getting at. Individuals within a religion do batshit things, but we have a first amendment which says people are free to worship whatever the hell they want whereever the hell they want. If this mosque turns out to be a front for terrorist activities it reflects poorly on the individuals running the mosque rather than the entire faith. By taking this approach, I would find someone more capable of running the mosque and prosecute those who break the law.
smart dude Member	Tue Aug 17 19:02:29 "One Final Question" Oh, and don't shit yourself. This for damn sure will not be the "final question" from either you or your bigoted ilk.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 19:02:47 I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything. I told you what I want. An honest answer if you have one.
Tragically Hip Member	Tue Aug 17 19:04:41 What happens if we become so paranoid about terrorists that we vote for some crazy Fascist dictator that calls a state of emergency, suspends constitutional rights, and turns America into a dictatorship?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 19:05:09 Less than 12 minutes to play the race card. Please stick to the subject.
river of blood Member	Tue Aug 17 19:05:58 I'd laugh my ass off.
Tragically Hip Member	Tue Aug 17 19:07:51 And in response to your question, HR, I'd turn the other cheek.
Nimatzo Member	Tue Aug 17 19:09:43 It is a retarded question from a retarded old fuck and thus does not deserve an answer. That is my honest answer.
Rugian Member	Tue Aug 17 19:13:34 Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 17 19:05:09 "Less than 12 minutes to play the race card. Please stick to the subject." Who said anything about racism you dumbshit? You were called a bigot, not a racist. Considering that you and MrP07 have been bitching about not using the terms interchangably for the last week now, I'd think that you would at least try to adhere to your own goddamn rules.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 19:15:16 He may have, I didn't.
Amadeus Member	Tue Aug 17 19:23:38 There will be no guilty emotion from this chair HR if that is what you are suggesting. The idea of thought police is a wicked agenda. You sure you want a part of such an idea. It is alleged in this forum that you are a pedophile. I'm fairly sure I know how you feel about such behavior against your person? It doesn't seem to be a distant line from dot to dot.
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Tue Aug 17 19:27:11 I thought chen's response was well thought out and presented. HR paid it no attention though.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 19:29:45 I have no agenda, I don't know what the future holds. This is just a what if question none of us knows the ansewr to. I'm just interested in the reactions to the question. So far, so good don't you think.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 19:31:20 PPS, as I said. I have no agenda. I'm not here to debate. But if you guys want to, feel free.
Ninja Member	Tue Aug 17 19:39:35 If this mosque turns out to be a front for terrorist activities it reflects poorly on the individuals running the mosque rather than the entire faith. By taking this approach, I would find someone more capable of running the mosque and prosecute those who break the law.
Alex Member	Tue Aug 17 19:47:11 What the FUCK do you MEAN by "IF"? I already established in my thread that the mosque is being established by fucking terrorists.
Alex Member	Tue Aug 17 19:47:42 This thread is like asking "what if Obama was a neo-marxist?'
Jewgle Member	Tue Aug 17 19:51:09 What do you mean what will we do then? Are you implying that every new mosque that gets built has to be some kind of front for terrorism? Do we hold that same standard for new churches built for being some kind of front for ill-will? Let me ask you this instead since new mosques are constructed daily around the country, has that always bothered you?
Jewgle Member	Tue Aug 17 19:52:22 Shut up JalexB. You offer nothing to the discussion. Stop spamming. Thanks.
Alex Member	Tue Aug 17 19:53:37 Yes, all mosques are fronts for terrorism... of various degrees. Ask muslim women if they aren't terrorized on a daily basis. Ask muslim sheep if their bungholes aren't terrorized daily.
Dickhead UPer Member	Tue Aug 17 20:03:00 I proclaim that muzzlefree.com is a hub for pedophiles to trade CP. And JB is the ring leader. There is undeniable proof.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue Aug 17 20:05:50 "PPS, as I said. I have no agenda. I'm not here to debate. But if you guys want to, feel free." So you just wanted some trolling, yes? That can be arranged easily with all your subsequent threads.
Alex Member	Tue Aug 17 20:09:22 Go ahead Dickhead UPer. Knock yourself out. It will be interesting to see where that goes.
Dickhead UPer Member	Tue Aug 17 20:19:35 Go ahead what. We truly know what the initials J and B actually mean and that muzzle supports nambla.
Madc0w Member	Tue Aug 17 21:59:55 What if we take a hypothetical situation that has no chance of happening in reality and ask a pointless question about it? What if the new Chile's opening up two miles away from me actually turns out to be a breeding ground for humanoid aliens from Southern Pluto? What will you people do then? And you see how stupid these kinds of questions sound?
Madc0w Member	Tue Aug 17 22:00:15 Chili's*
Firestorm Phoenix Member	Tue Aug 17 22:35:47 Paranoia is bad, mmkay?
Jewgle Member	Tue Aug 17 22:40:44 I got you all beat. What if..... You had credible information based from analysis and intelligence gathering by your government agencies informing you that a terrorist attack is imminent but you scoffed it off and an attack occurred? What would you all do then?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 17 23:08:14 Madc0w, every single time you express an opinion, without empirical proof, you are expressing a 'what if'.
kargen Member	Tue Aug 17 23:09:05 "What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities?" Punish those who are associates of terrorists and turn the building into a YMCA. Or do as Chen suggested and find someone suitable to run the building activities. "I already established in my thread that the mosque is being established by fucking terrorists." No, you established that others hold the same theory that you hold. No real proof was provided.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue Aug 17 23:38:19 As HR has admitted, he was just trolling.
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Wed Aug 18 00:05:11 HR, to answer your question I will feel exactly the same as I would feel had it been built in Omaha, Nebraska. As I understand it you are in the same boat as those who just don't want it built in that location, but would have no problem with it being built further away. So my question to you would be - what if they decided to build it where you were not offended, and then the same worst-case-scenario that you speak of occured? WOULD YOU FEEL ANY DIFFERENT?
Sam Adams Member	Wed Aug 18 00:05:28 "If this mosque turns out to be a front for terrorist activities it reflects poorly on the individuals running the mosque rather than the entire faith." bullshit. after about 800,000 muslim terrorist attacks per decade, that individual bullshit becomes something else. lets call it a trend or perhaps an infestation...
KreeL Member	Wed Aug 18 00:48:26 What if they build the mosque, worship their god, and we find out they had nothing to do with 9/11? What will you do then, nimrod?
saiko Member	Wed Aug 18 03:33:16 "bullshit. after about 800,000 muslim terrorist attacks per decade, that individual bullshit becomes something else" No, it really doesn't.
Nekran Member	Wed Aug 18 05:13:44 By that logic, all americans are murderers.
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 18 05:20:44 excerpt from a good rant.. "Remember when George W. Bush and his neoconservative allies used to say that the "war on terror" was a struggle on behalf of Muslims, decent folks who wanted nothing more than to live free like you and me? Remember when Karen Hughes paid millions to produce glitzy videos of Muslim Americans testifying about how free they were to practice their religion in the USA? Remember Bush's second inaugural, when he said "America's ideal of freedom" is "sustained in our national life by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran?" Once upon a time, Republicans were so confident that the vast majority of Muslims preferred freedom to jihad that they believed the U.S. could install democracy in Iraq within months. Now, confronted with a group of Muslim Americans who want to build a cultural center that includes Jews and Christians on the board (how many churches and synagogues do that?), GOP leaders call them terrorists because they don't share Benjamin Netanyahu's view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Once upon a time, the "war on terror" was supposed to bring American values to Saudi Arabia. Now Newt Gingrich says we shouldn't build a mosque in Lower Manhattan until the Saudis build churches and synagogues in Mecca-which is to say, we're bringing Saudi values to the United States. I wonder how David Petraeus feels about all this. There he is, slogging away in the Hindu Kush, desperately trying to be culturally sensitive, watching GIs get killed because Afghans believe the U.S. is waging a war on Islam, and back home, the super-patriots on Fox News have... declared war on Islam. So please, no more talk about those idealistic neoconservatives who are willing to expend blood and treasure so Afghans and Iraqis can live free. People in Basra and Kandahar had better hope that America's counterinsurgency warriors create a society in which they can practice their religion free of intimidation and insult. Because it's now clear they can't do so on the lower tip of the island of Manhattan." http://www...-america-has-disgraced-itself/
patom Member	Wed Aug 18 05:50:37 "bullshit. after about 800,000 muslim terrorist attacks per decade, that individual bullshit becomes something else." Source? Who did the Muslims attack? What is the religious affiliation of the victims of these attacks? Etc.?
roland Member	Wed Aug 18 06:04:10 It is not about who they are, it is about who we are.... oh wait.... We are the same as them...
Paramount Member	Wed Aug 18 07:20:47 Hot Rad "What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities? All the worst things that can be imagined about it turn out to be true. What will you people do then?" So if the cultural center is funded by terrorists and if it will be a recruiting ground for Al-Qaida, lol, wouldn't it be a good thing to have it built in New York then so that the NSA and CIA can spy on them and arrest the terrorists? Keep your friends close but your enemies closer.
Isaksson Member	Wed Aug 18 07:21:37 I cannot help myself... ROFL
Madc0w Member	Wed Aug 18 10:26:20 "Madc0w, every single time you express an opinion, without empirical proof, you are expressing a 'what if'. " Incorrect, these are two unrelated concepts. "What if" leads to a hypothetical situation. An opinion could be, "X is morally wrong". Where's the what if in that opinion? And anyway, your hypothetical situation has no chance of happening in reality. Why are you any more worried about this community center becoming a terrorist training ground than any other terrorist training ground?
river of blood Member	Wed Aug 18 11:01:14 "What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities?" Then the US will have "ties to terrorists" and should be invaded and bombed and occupied.
Dakyron Member	Wed Aug 18 11:21:25 "What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities? All the worst things that can be imagined about it turn out to be true. What will you people do then? " Go on a genocidal killing spree, ending the life of every man, woman, and child with any affiliation with the Muslim religion anywhere on earth, by whatever means are neccessary, including nuclear weapons. Or, possibly, just shut down the mosque and lease the space to someone else.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 18 17:14:12 >-"X is morally wrong". Where's the what if in that opinion? The 'what if' is you are basing your opinion on your morality. My morality is totally different than your. 'What if' J am right and you are wrong. >-Why are you any more worried about this community center becoming a terrorist training ground than any other terrorist training ground? I worry about all of them. I believe the majority of Muslims want to see me dead.
Madc0w Member	Wed Aug 18 17:27:37 "'What if' J am right and you are wrong. " If your opinion is that this mosque will be a front for terrorists, and you have no basis for your opinion (as I am sure you do not), the rest of us could easily dismiss your opinion. "I worry about all of them. I believe the majority of Muslims want to see me dead. " That's because you are an uneducated, brainwashed, paranoid fool who has probably never met a single Muslim.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 18 17:43:56 I have no opinion. I merely ask 'what if', in your opinion what would you do.
Madc0w Member	Wed Aug 18 17:49:06 It's a pointless question, since it has no chance of happening.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 18 17:50:15 Then that is your opinion. Thank you.
ehcks Member	Wed Aug 18 17:55:57 Probabilities are not opinions.
saiko Member	Wed Aug 18 18:12:18 "I worry about all of them. I believe the majority of Muslims want to see me dead." Presumably you also believe zombie Elvis is after your gold. That doesn't mean anyone needs to take that into account.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 18 18:15:20 No one says you have to? Do you think everyone should think the same about every subject? Would all of you like to think like me? I certainly don't want you guys telling me how to think.
Madc0w Member	Wed Aug 18 18:19:52 People should think rationally.
Dickhead UPer Member	Wed Aug 18 18:37:02 Exactly the case. Unless you want to campaign that every religious establishment be investigated if your scenario should come true connecting to any criminal activity. -Every-
CrownRoyal Member	Thu Aug 19 01:43:44 Poll shows more Americans think Obama is a Muslim By Jon Cohen and Michael D. Shear Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, August 19, 2010; A04 The number of Americans who believe -- wrongly -- that President Obama is a Muslim has increased significantly since his inauguration and now account for nearly 20 percent of the nation's population. Those results, from a new Pew Research Center survey, were drawn from interviews done before the president's comments about the construction of an Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero, and they suggest that there could be serious political danger for the White House as the debate continues. The president's religion, like his place of birth, has been the subject of Internet-spread rumors and falsehoods since before he began his presidential campaign, and the poll indicates that those rumors have gained currency since Obama took office. The number of people who now correctly identify Obama as a Christian has dropped to 34 percent, down from nearly half when he took office. White House officials expressed dismay over the poll results. Faith adviser Joshua DuBois blamed "misinformation campaigns" by the president's opponents. "While the president has been diligent and personally committed to his own Christian faith, there's certainly folks who are intent on spreading falsehoods about the president and his values and beliefs," DuBois said. DuBois said the president's Christian faith plays an "important part" in his daily life. And he pointed to six speeches on faith that the president has given in which he talked about his beliefs. But Dubois said coverage of Obama's Christianity has been scant compared with news about the economic crisis, legislative battles and other issues. Among those who say Obama is a Muslim, 60 percent say they learned about his religion from the media, suggesting that their opinions are fueled by misinformation. But the shifting attitudes about the president's religious beliefs could also be the result of a public growing less enamored of him and increasingly attracted to labels they perceive as negative. In the Pew poll, 41 percent disapprove of Obama's job performance, compared with 26 percent disapproval in its March 2009 poll. More than a third of conservative Republicans now say Obama is a Muslim, nearly double the percentage saying so early last year. Independents, too, are now more apt to see the president as a Muslim: Among independents, 18 percent say he is a Muslim, up eight percentage points. Those numbers come as Obama and other Democrats try to minimize potential fallout from the president's remarks on Friday about the Islamic center in New York. A new Time-SRBI poll found that 61 percent of Americans oppose building the center. Nearly twice as many people said the center, and the mosque inside it, would be an insult to 9/11 victims than said it would be a symbol of religious tolerance. In the Time poll, 25 percent say most Muslims in the United States are not patriotic Americans. But the survey also indicates that the public's opposition to the center may be more complicated than just anti-Muslim sentiment. Fifty-five percent said they would accept a Muslim community center and place of worship two blocks from their own home. http://www.../08/18/AR2010081806913_pf.html
eds Member	Thu Aug 19 21:21:31 "What if they build the mosque and it turns out to be a front for terrorist activities? All the worst things that can be imagined about it turn out to be true. What will you people do then?" Shrug our shoulders and say, "Well that's the price of liberty."
KreeL Member	Fri Aug 20 23:24:58 Good answer, eds. the 'preemptive stupidity' propagated by the jubush administration was found wanting. A good rightwing nutjob like HR can find a boogeyman in every closet. Just ask him.
saiko Member	Sat Aug 21 14:16:15 A better question is: what if they don't build the mosque and then the house next to it turns out to be a terrorist base of operations and they nuke all major US cities? Then what would you say, Hot Rod? Would you admit you were WRONG?
Hot Rod Member	Sat Aug 21 14:31:36 Certainly.
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