Utopia Talk / Politics / The Mosque is an insult to victims

Ninja Member	Sun Aug 15 15:47:10 http://www...other-local-realities/19590651 Call it "the ground zero mosque," as some of its critics have, and some people might get the impression that the mosque in question will be located, well, right at ground zero, or at least across the street. But that label obscures a few important facts: the Cordoba House complex at 45-51 Park Place would sit not right next door but instead two blocks away from the World Trade Center site, in an area that is not a somber pastoral landscape but a busy and diverse city district. Whatever the arguments for and against the project, then, it's not accurate to call it the ground zero mosque -- any more than it would be to apply that nomenclature to these other residents of the WTC neighborhood: The Proximity: One Block: * The Ground Zero Deli * Actual name: Stage Door Delicatessen * Location: 26 Vesey St. * The skinny: NYC (of course) has a number of delis, but this one has an important location: It's right next to St. Paul's Chapel, the most noted religious building in the area until that changed for some reason. (If it actually gets built, the Stage Door could perhaps prove a good place to go for a few pops before hitting Fox News provocateur Greg Gutfeld's proposed ground zero Muslim gay bar?) * The Ground Zero Knittery * Actual name: Seaport Yarn * Location: 181 Broadway * The skinny: A few blocks away from the mosque, closer to the southern end of ground zero, is a knitting store that describes itself as "the yarnaholic's candy store." It carries 53 brands of "designer" yarn (based on our quick count), which is 53 more than we knew existed. Two Blocks: * The Ground Zero Falafel Carts * Actual names: Sam's Falafel Stand; Alan's Falafel * Location: Cedar Street between Trinity Place and Broadway; 140 Broadway * The skinny: The iconic Middle Eastern dish is represented by not one but two carts within shouting distance of each other. And they have a massive rivalry to boot. Sam's has a huge following, but so does Alan's; New York Magazine called their competition for stomachs a "tahini-splattered falafel war." * The Ground Zero Camping Supply Store * Actual name: Tent & Trails * Location: 21 Park Place * The skinny: A block away from the World Trade Center site, the 30-year-old business is very thorough in its approach to outfitting outdoorsy types. It has an entire page on its site recommending different types of gear for different trips, including Mount Kilimanjaro, which is not within four blocks of the World Trade Center site. * The Ground Zero Horse Betting Bureau * Actual name: Off-Track Betting * The location: 25 Park Place * The skinny: Strip clubs (see below) aren't the only vice that one can find close to the WTC site. Gambling is readily available, too. You can bet on horse races from this location, two doors down from Tent & Trails. Three Blocks: * The Ground Zero Strip Club * Actual name: New York Dolls * The location: 59 Murray St. * The skinny: About a block away from the planned mosque is pretty much the exact opposite of a house of worship, an establishment that led one Yelp user to rave (somewhat NSFW image at the link): "New York Dolls has given me a new appreciation for stripping." In case you're wondering, it's wheelchair accessible, too. * The Ground Zero Trashy Lingerie Store * Actual name: Thunder Lingerie and More * The location: 100 Greenwich St. * The skinny: Not to be outdone by New York Dolls, this adult shop sells a lot of wares that can't be described on this family-friendly website. But it scores patriotism points with an iconic sign complete with American flag. * The Ground Zero Hair Restoration Center * Actual name: Dr. Mike and Son Highly Customized Hair Systems * The location: 130 Church St. * The skinny: Dr. Mike isn't just the proprietor of this barber shop/hair restoration business. He's also a client, as shown by the photos at this site. Four Blocks: * The Less-Acclaimed Ground Zero Strip Club * Actual name: The Pussycat Lounge * The location: 96 Greenwich St. * The skinny: This longstanding New York gentlemen's club and music venue gets slightly less positive reviews from Yelp. (One take: "Where strippers go to die. One of the most horrible places I've ever been in my life.") * The Ground Zero Fountain Pen Repair Shop * Actual name: Fountain Pen Hospital * The location: 10 Warren St. * The skinny: This funny-sounding business specializes in repairing antique writing devices, using thingamajigs such as an "alligator tool" (a giant needle used to insert and remove parts from old pens) and pen polish. It also boasts an endorsement of sorts from Bill Cosby. * The Ground Zero Specialty Bookstore * Actual Name: The Mysterious Bookshop * The location: 58 Warren St. * The skinny: Should the Cordoba House face further unexpected plot twists, it'll be in good company with this bookstore, which focuses almost entirely on the mystery genre and is a fitting part of the retail landscape of the city that birthed Paul Auster's famously meta "New York Trilogy." ------------------------------------------------- But yes, the Mosque is victims while we don't give a shit about any of this other stuff. .... fucking assholes.
Aeros Member	Sun Aug 15 15:50:46 You forgot the other mosque 4 blocks away from Ground Zero that has been there for 40 years.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 15:53:49 Ninja - Whatever the arguments for and against the project, then, it's not accurate to call it the ground zero mosque... Didn't the engine from one of the jets end up inside that building? Seems I heard that somewhere. If so wouldn't that, in fact make it a distinct part of ground zero?
pillz Member	Sun Aug 15 15:55:16 Oh god, it hurts to read your posts Hot Rod
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Aug 15 15:57:20 Yah, that lil old ladies apartment that got visited by a plane seat through the window 5 blocks away, her apartment is GZ too. Christ almighty
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 15:57:29 Did an engine from one of the planes end up there or not?
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Aug 15 15:58:41 Go find out yourself. We're not your employees dumbass
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 16:00:04 2. a scene of great devastation Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition 2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Aug 15 16:02:06 noun Psychiatry . an adult who is sexually attracted to young children. Also, pedophiliac.
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 15 16:04:30 What about the mosque in Pentagon? Why haven't the Republicans, the KKK and the neo-nazis objected to that? http://www...05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 16:08:32 You people keep bring up crap that is totally irrelevant. There is only one questio: Is building there the right thing to do considering the pain it is causing?
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Aug 15 16:09:55 How about the pain caused by killing 1,000,000,000 people Roddy? How do you feel about that?
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 15 16:13:18 Families of the victims has said that they fully support the building of the mosque.
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 15 16:16:52 "Is building there the right thing to do considering the pain it is causing?" Is building illegal settlements on occupied territories the right thing to do considering the pain it is causing, Hot Rod? Building a mosque in the USA isn't even illegal, Hot Rod.
Ninja Member	Sun Aug 15 16:23:38 "Is building there the right thing to do considering the pain it is causing? " What pain? If this is seriously causing anyone pain they need to go see a psychiatrist.
Milton Bradley Member	Sun Aug 15 16:23:59 Was killing off the native americans and stealing their country the right thing to do?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 16:24:14 Paramouth - Families of the victims has said that they fully support the building of the mosque. Yeah, you brought that up before. There were only about 299 that are on that list out of the tens of thousands that were effected.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Aug 15 16:26:47 Why are innocent people being accused of causing pain again?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 16:28:03 *-200
Paramount Member	Sun Aug 15 16:29:27 Hot Rod won't even answer my question about the settlements.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 16:31:07 Paramouth - Hot Rod won't even answer my question about the settlements. Go open a thread on that subject, you might get an answer.
Milton Bradley Member	Sun Aug 15 16:31:31 hotrod likes to demand that everyone answers him, he even makes threads demanding that but he is not very good at practicing what he preaches.
Canadian Member	Sun Aug 15 16:32:02 Emphasis on might.
saiko Member	Sun Aug 15 22:08:11 "Is building there the right thing to do considering the pain it is causing?" That depends on whether you want the state to legitimize bigotry through restrictive building laws. In the right corner: Bigotry and State Interference. In the left corner: Tolerance and Free Market. Guess which side Hot Rod is rooting for.
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 22:10:45 The center of the ring where you find consideration for your fellow man.
saiko Member	Sun Aug 15 23:24:56 So who is it you're trying to condemn here? The people building an Islamic cultural center where there already was a mosque in the first place? Or the right wing hacks making it into an awkward and painful media circus?
Hot Rod Member	Sun Aug 15 23:48:03 I'm not trying to condemn, I'm trying to commiserate.
saiko Member	Sun Aug 15 23:56:29 So no one did anything wrong?
saiko Member	Mon Aug 16 00:02:14 Because, you know, I think somebody did do something wrong. Somebody is, quite intentionally, making a mountain out of a molehill and abusing the suffering of the 9/11 victims to create animosity along party lines, because they know that will cause people to flock to one of the larger parties. I think somebody is trying to create this artificial atmosphere of ethnic hostility (that you and many others are taking hl&s) to bias the American political discourse toward the two-party system. This somebody is a Bad American Conservative.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 16 00:18:49 saiko - So no one did anything wrong? Yeah, there was a bunch of terrorists that murdered nearly 3000 innocent people that directly effected the lives of thousands of people.
saiko Member	Mon Aug 16 00:24:07 Way to dodge the iss--ah never mind.
KreeL Member	Mon Aug 16 01:17:25 "Yeah, there was a bunch of terrorists that murdered nearly 3000 innocent people that directly effected the lives of thousands of people." Only a theory with zero evidence.
Canadian Member	Mon Aug 16 02:43:35 "Is building there the right thing to do considering the pain it is causing?" - Hot Rod, I figured that people from your generation would understand what it was like to "man the fuck up". If anyone has "pain" from this mosque, they need to take off the Pampers.
J.B. Member	Mon Aug 16 10:45:57 If you are in favor of the mosque, you are a terrorist. Simple as that. Enjoy your new mosque, terrorists.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Aug 16 10:46:39 J.B. comes out from hiding.
ehcks Member	Mon Aug 16 10:46:52 So terrorist is now equivalent to constitutionalist. Good to know.
patom Member	Mon Aug 16 12:11:05 Wasn't there Muslim victims of the 9/11 attack? If I recall there were victims that were of almost all major religions killed or injured in the attack. If the religions want to have a competition of some sort, let them all raise funds and buy property near ground zero and build their own places of worship.
ehcks Member	Mon Aug 16 12:13:16 Sure, there can be a mosque, and a church, and a synagogue, what have you. Kinda like the Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor.
saiko Member	Mon Aug 16 20:46:18 "If you are in favor of the mosque, you are a terrorist." You didn't protest the one that was already there. Terrorist.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 16 20:48:36 It has been there 40 fucking years. Jesus.
Canadian Member	Mon Aug 16 20:57:16 "It has been there 40 fucking years." - What's the difference between one and two?
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 16 21:00:28 You do realize it you liberals that are the ones bring up racism don't you. It is not an issue of race or religion.
Canadian Member	Mon Aug 16 21:07:20 "It is not an issue of race or religion." - Yes, it is entirely.
Hot Rod Member	Mon Aug 16 21:16:36 That is only because you liberals have made it so. The republicans have specific questions such as why won't the Iman call Hamas a terrorist organization and and where is the money coming from to build it. They have other questions too, but I don't pay attention to them because I have a reason of my own. And I will not get sucked into a discussion about racism.
Canadian Member	Mon Aug 16 21:31:24 It's only about racism to people that don't like Arabs, which, sadly are a fair chunk of those opposed to the mosque. The religious discrimination almost seems like the righties are baiting the left on tolerance, in addition to those that hate specifically Islam (but not other religions) for whatever irrational reason(s). Why should the Imam call Hamas a terrorist organization, or do they want to exercise thought control over him? I seem to remember an American patriot that once said, "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death to ensure your right to say it." Or something to that effect. I was not aware that New York building statutes made you disclose the source of funding for a building. IMO, that's excessive government intrusion into the private sphere, and as a libertarian, you would agree with that statement.
Canadian Member	Mon Aug 16 21:32:29 The "they" wishing to exact thought control being Republicans.
Mexicantornado Member	Mon Aug 16 21:45:52 Wow hr you're getting trolled like no other. I sincerely doubt the majority of posters here genuinely believe it is bigoted to say it is tasteless for muslims to build a 100 million dollar mosque two blocks from the ground where Muslims killed 3k Americans. (thanks for clarifying the número for me rug)
Canadian Member	Mon Aug 16 21:58:48 Taste has nothing to do with it. They (being trolls and bigots) are making an issue out of something that isn't, and in doing so are poisoning the political atmosphere (you're right on that one, thanks saiko).
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