Utopia Talk / Politics / Liberaltard Judge gives Hispanics 6votes

Dukhat Member	Fri Jun 18 20:04:29 http://www...hp?id=D9GDV6JG0&show_article=1 PORT CHESTER, N.Y. (AP) - The court-ordered election that allowed residents of one New York town to flip the lever six times for one candidateâ??and produced a Hispanic winnerâ??could expand to other towns where minorities complain their voices aren't being heard. But first, interested parties will want to take a look at the exit surveys. The unusual election was imposed on Port Chester after a federal judge determined that Hispanics were being treated unfairly. The 2010 Census is expected to show large increases in Latino populations and lawsuits alleging discrimination are likely to increase, said Rob Richie, executive director of FairVote, a nonprofit election research and reform group. "The country's been changing in a lot of places, with minority growth in exurbs and commuter cities, and there will be a realization that those minorities can't elect candidates of choice," Richie said. That will leave minority groups, federal prosecutors and municipalities looking for ways to keep elections from violating the federal Voting Rights Act, which protects minorities' constitutional right to equal protection under the law. In Port Chester, trustees had been elected two at a time every two years, with conventional at-large voting. Most voters were white, and there were always six white trustees even though Hispanics made up half the population and nearly a quarter of the voters. Judge Stephen Robinson concluded the system violated U.S. law by diluting Hispanics' votes. The standard remedy was to break a municipality into districts, with one district including many from the minority, thereby increasing the chances for a candidate backed by the minority group. The Justice Department proposed that solution for Port Chester. But the village of about 30,000 objected to districts. It suggested instead a system called cumulative voting. All six trustees would be elected at once and the voters could apportion their six votes as they wishedâ??all six to one candidate, one each to six candidates or any combination. The system, which has been used in Alabama, Illinois, South Dakota and Texas, allows a political minority to gain representation if it organizes behind specific candidates. Judge Robinson went for it, and cumulative voting was used for the first time in a New York municipality. Peruvian immigrant Luis Marino, 43, finished fourth, making him Port Chester's first Hispanic trustee. "It helped me get elected," said Marino, a Democrat who works in maintenance at the Scarsdale schools. "I will be representing all the people of Port Chester, but I am aware that I can help Hispanics bring their concerns to the board." Voters also elected a black trustee for the first time: Joseph Kenner, a Republican who was already on the board as an appointee. The village said Friday that 3,278 residents voted, about 31 percent of those registered, a slightly higher turnout than usual. Hispanic turnout had not been analyzed, but Richie said about a quarter of all votes went to Hispanic candidates. Marino's victory might prompt other judges to consider cumulative voting as a remedy. "The way this election was implemented in Port Chester can be an example for other jurisdictions with similar problems," said Randolph McLaughlin, a lawyer who has represented plaintiffs in several voters' rights cases, including Port Chester's. He cautioned, however, that the success was not just due to the unusual election system, but "was the result of the work that went in before the election." That workâ??an extensive voter education programâ??was the principal subject of exit surveys. The questions, in Spanish and English, weren't about whom they voted for but about how well they understood the system and what strategy they used in voting. The survey also asked which of Port Chester's outreach programsâ??a website, radio and TV commercials, voter forums, handoutsâ??were helpful. Voter education was a requirement of the settlement, but Port Chester officials believe they went beyond their obligation. "We put so much emphasis on educationâ??we may have spent $100 a voterâ??because we knew it would be critical to success," said village spokesman Aldo Vitagliano. "We also know that the next community can point to Port Chester and say `That's how it's done.'" Two political science professorsâ??David Kimball of the University of Missouri-St. Louis and Martha Knopf of the University of North Carolina at Charlotteâ??were hired to analyze the Port Chester data. Kimball said their report would take a few weeks. "There's a very important issue here: Were voters comfortable? Did they understand how it works?" Kimball said. "Did they plump (give more than one vote to a candidate)? Did they know they could plump?" Until there's a separate analysis of the votes, including who did well in Hispanic neighborhoods, it won't be known for sure if Marino was actually the preferred candidate of Latino voters. "The election of a Hispanic candidate does not necessarily mean that a Hispanic-supported candidate was chosen," McLaughlin said. "But it's definitely a step forward." Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. ********************************* Too many evil white people were being elected so the judge made each person able to vote 6 times at one time for an at-large candidate, and you can vote for the same person 6 times. Obama likes the idea. In 2012, everyone will get a vote for president, senator, congressman, governor, and mayor (along with 12 at-large-city councilman and comptroller). But they can now use all 18 votes on one candidate. It's the only way he has a chance of being re-elected.
Cloud Strife Member	Fri Jun 18 20:11:16 What the fuck... Fuck this shit...
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 20:11:24 "The unusual election was imposed on Port Chester after a federal judge determined that Hispanics were being treated unfairly." Why don't the sons of bitches move?
yankeessuck123 Member	Fri Jun 18 20:20:29 "Why don't the sons of bitches move?" It's responses like this that make me worry for the future of this country. It's this attitude that would have upheld segregation 50 years ago. The darkies don't like getting beat up and lynched by white people? Well maybe the sons of bitches should move. All very easy for Probably Rod to say from behind his keyboard, because he's not the one being told to uproot his family and all his belongings and go somewhere else, so he can live a life without being discriminated against. (none of this should imply that I support this ruling)
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 20:25:05 >-It's responses like this that make me worry for the future of this country. And you see nothing wrong with giving a minority six votes to my one? Hell, there are fewer Muslims than Hispanics. Are you going to give Muslims 50 votes to my one? Jesus Christ m,ar, read The Constitution.
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 20:25:34 man
yankeessuck123 Member	Fri Jun 18 20:26:31 "And you see nothing wrong with giving a minority six votes to my one?" Read the parenthetical at the end of my post, jackass.
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 20:28:39 The Guardian Member Fri Jun 18 20:25:05 "And you see nothing wrong with giving a minority six votes to my one?" That's not what is happening here you fucking retard.
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 20:33:30 I know what is happening here. Instead of voting for six candidates they are allowed to vote six times for one candidate.That gives them an unfair advantage.
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 20:35:54 Your previous statement clearly indicates that you do not understand cumulative voting.
werewolf dictator Member	Fri Jun 18 20:38:31 is dukhat [who invents title] or guardian more retarded..close contest..
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 20:56:54 I had never heard of it and I do not like it. This has nothing to do with segregation, that was to allow people to vote and to give them equal rights under the law (at the cost of property rights in some cases.) Here they had equal rights under the law. The article says, "and there were always six white trustees even though Hispanics made up half the population and nearly a quarter of the voters." If they have one fourth of the votes it stands to reaso n they could in fact get an Hispanic elected. All they need to do is not vote for whites while casting a single vote for their candidate. Besides, candidates should be looking to serve the community at large and not just what is good for the white people. This opens the door to a voting system that can too easily be manipulated.
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 21:04:23 Angel, read the fucking article. There are six trustees but they are elected two at a time. You just make yourself look more foolish with every post.
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:07:50 Yes, and they could haver solved the problem by voting all six at large at the same time. There is no reason to allow a voter to vote six times for one person.
Freddy Member	Fri Jun 18 21:11:36 "The court-ordered election that allowed residents of one New York town to flip the lever six times for one candidate" It doesn't say that only wetbacks and jiggaboos get 6 votes.
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 21:13:52 Freddy Member Fri Jun 18 21:11:36 "It doesn't say that only wetbacks and jiggaboos get 6 votes." Correct. Everyone gets 6 votes. That's how cumulative voting works.
Madc0w Member	Fri Jun 18 21:15:22 Yeah, Dukhat's thread title is misleading, but what can you expect from him.
Freddy Member	Fri Jun 18 21:17:30 He'll be the first lawyer to never win a case.
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:18:54 "It doesn't say that only wetbacks and jiggaboos get 6 votes." True, they all get six votes and I have no problem with that. It is six candidates and six votes, cool. What I take exception to is allowing all six votes to be cast for one candidate. I see that causing a great deal of problems in the future.
Ninja Member	Fri Jun 18 21:20:18 Holy fuck are you retarded TG. The feds suggested they split it up into districts but the VILLAGE objected and INSTEAD decided to go with cumulative voting. "The standard remedy was to break a municipality into districts, with one district including many from the minority, thereby increasing the chances for a candidate backed by the minority group. The Justice Department proposed that solution for Port Chester. But the village of about 30,000 objected to districts. It suggested instead a system called cumulative voting. All six trustees would be elected at once and the voters could apportion their six votes as they wishedâ??all six to one candidate, one each to six candidates or any combination" This system was not forced on them, they choose it so all you morons claiming a judge gave wetbacks 6 votes are FUCKING retarded. Everyone got the same amount of votes and the village decided on that system themselves.
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:28:03 I understand the system, I just do not like it. Isn't that my prerogative?
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:32:43 What the fuck is wrong with you fucking idiots? You are just like the radical left that wants to shut down ever voice against what they want. If you can't win with a program that makes sense to your opponent you want to steamroller over them until you silence them. I do not like the fucking idea so fuck off.
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 21:34:42 No, your posts indicate that you do not understand the system. The Guardian Member Fri Jun 18 20:25:05 "And you see nothing wrong with giving a minority six votes to my one?" The Guardian Member Fri Jun 18 20:56:54 "The article says, "and there were always six white trustees even though Hispanics made up half the population and nearly a quarter of the voters." If they have one fourth of the votes it stands to reaso n they could in fact get an Hispanic elected. All they need to do is not vote for whites while casting a single vote for their candidate."
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:37:17 "Yes, and they could haver solved the problem by voting all six at large at the same time. There is no reason to allow a voter to vote six times for one person."
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 21:38:29 The Guardian Member Fri Jun 18 20:25:05 "And you see nothing wrong with giving a minority six votes to my one?"
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:41:18 I don't like it, and yo do not understand the possible repercussions so lets leave it at that.
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 21:42:33 You don't understand it, and you eat catfood while rape prepubescent males so let's leave it at that. The Guardian Member Fri Jun 18 20:25:05 "And you see nothing wrong with giving a minority six votes to my one?"
Renzo Marquez Member	Fri Jun 18 21:42:53 while *you* rape
The Guardian Member	Fri Jun 18 21:46:12 I won't rape if you will give up sucking nigger dick. Too much to ask opf you? Just as I thought.
Ninja Member	Fri Jun 18 21:58:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulative_voting Cumulative voting (also accumulation voting, weighted voting or multi-voting) is a multiple-winner voting system intended to promote more proportional representation than winner-take-all elections. History Cumulative voting is used frequently in corporate governance, where it is mandated by many U.S. states. It was used to elect the Illinois House of Representatives from 1870 until its repeal in 1980 and used in England in the late 19th century to elect some school boards. As of November 2009, more than fifty communities in the United States use cumulative voting, all resulting from cases brought under the federal Voting Rights Act. Among them are Peoria, Illinois for half of its city council, Chilton County, Alabama for its county council and school board, and Amarillo, Texas, for its school board and College Board of Regents [1]. Courts sometimes mandate its use when they deem it necessary to provide fair representation; an example of this occurred in 2009 in Port Chester, New York.[2][3][4] A form of cumulative voting has been used by group facilitators as a method to collectively prioritize options, for example ideas generated from a brainstorming session within a workshop. This approach is described as "multi-voting" and was likely derived from the nominal group technique and is one of many tools suggested within the Six Sigma business management strategy[5].
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 00:21:26 "I don't like it, and yo do not understand the possible repercussions so lets leave it at that. " Exactly what repercussions do you speak of?
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 00:35:12 Unless you are willing to admit the current administration has committed actions, on a regular basis since they took office, that are unconstitutional it would do no good to tell you what the possible ramifications are, you would not believe it.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 01:11:04 Oh, I absolutely agree that they've done things that I think are unconstitutional. I'm not sure we think the same things are unconstitutional but I think without a doubt Obama has not only abandoned his pledges to restore civil liberty infringements imposed by Bush but has gone further. One particularly outrageous case is the defense of Bush era actions against Maher Arar. The US takes a guy on US soil, ships him to Syria and tortures him and then claims state secrets. and pretty much everything mentioned by Jon Stewart in this clip: http://www...-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 01:15:18 I was think more in terms of his ignoring established bankruptcy laws by seizing the assets of the auto industry bondholders without due process and giving said assets to his union cronies.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 01:31:56 What exactly do you know about bankruptcy laws? Honestly, I doubt that much. http://en....tors#Chapter_11_reorganization On July 10, 2009, a new entity, NGMCO Inc. purchased the ongoing operations and trademarks from General Motors Corporation.[29] The purchasing company in turn changed its name from NGMCO Inc. to General Motors Company, marking the emergence of a new operation from the "pre-packaged" Chapter 11 reorganization.[30][31][32] Under the reorganization process, termed a 363 sale (for Section 363 which is located in Title 11, Chapter 3, Subchapter IV of the United States Code, a part of the Bankruptcy Code), the purchaser of the assets of a company in bankruptcy proceedings is able to obtain approval for the purchase from the court prior to the submission of a re-organization plan, free of liens and other claims. Itâ??s used in most Chapter 11 cases that involve a sale of property or other assets. This process is typical of large organizations with complex branding and intellectual property rights issues upon exiting bankruptcy.[33][34][35][36] The new company plans to issue an initial public offering (IPO) of stock in 2010.[37] GM's remaining pre-petition creditors' claims are paid from the remaining assets of Motors Liquidation Company, the new name of the former General Motors Corporation, although the directors of that company believe its debts far outweigh its assets.[32][37] This means that while the former GM's bondholders may recover a small portion of their investment, former GM shareholders (now shareholders of Motors Liquidation Company) will likely not receive anything.[38] Also on July 10, 2009, GM announced plans to trim its U.S. workforce by 20,000 employees as part of its reorganization by the end of 2009 due to economic conditions.[39] ------------------------------------------------- The fact of the matter is that the government did NOT seize assets. Any sale of shares to the government was voluntary. That still doesn't have anything to do with the Justice Department suggesting voting districts and the village instead choosing to go with cumulative voting.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 02:01:02 rofl great comedy from the masters of stupidity, HR and Fukhat
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 06:30:45 "Under GM's existing $13.4 billion in emergency loans from the U.S. Treasury, bondholders are being asked to take some 33 cents on the dollar in new equity or other payouts in exchange for forgiving the remainder of the debt. That swap would wipe some $18 billion in debt from GM's balance sheet. At the same time, the UAW is being asked to take $10 billion of GM stock instead of cash it is owed for retiree health care. It would get the remaining $10 billion in cash. That would give the union a cash payout ratio of 50 percent on its remaining claim, compared with 33 percent for the bondholders. This gap has become an increasingly contentious issue since the Bush administration hurriedly established the terms of the GM bailout in December. UAW LOBBIES HARD This week the UAW urged Congress to reject the bondholders' claims for improved terms, a position based in part on concessions the union had made in contract talks with GM in 2005 and again in 2007. Deals in those years cut GM's health care liability by 40 percent. "Retirees have already had to settle their claims for less than 60 cents on the dollar," UAW lobbyist Alan Reuther said in an open letter released on Thursday. "In contrast, bondholders and other lenders have not made any sacrifices." In addition, he said, speculation of a GM bankruptcy has driven the price of its bonds so low that some holders could book profits even at 33 cents on the dollar. The argument has failed to sway representatives of GM bondholders, who had a single hearing of just over an hour with the U.S. auto task force two weeks ago. From their perspective, the GM restructuring was backward from the start. U.S. officials decided what the automaker's balance sheet would look like in December, while the company's business plan was not ready until February, they say. "Bondholders would be walking away from two-thirds of the principal, and they would be left with highly speculative securities," said a person with direct knowledge of their position. "Everyone else is walking away with far more," said the source, who asked not to be named because of the confidential nature of the talks between the bondholders and GM." http://www...tandoff-imperils-gm-plan-37951
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 06:58:18 http://www.../2009/06/daycare-sign-fail.jpg
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 07:14:01 What is that, your child porn site. Yopu must be a member to get in evidently. And you have the audacity to talk about others. Freak.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 07:40:19 You need to be a member to see pics at epicfail.com? No you do not. I fear you are mixing the url up with one of the bookmarks with passwords that the previous owner of your computer, a well known pedophile, must have left. If I was you, I'd turn the whole computer over to the FBI.
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 07:50:05 You are the one posting a link to a forbidden site moron. Go away.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 07:51:46 No, everyone here can testify its epicfail.com, thus you are clicking as different url. If its forbidden, you really should report that computer. As I told you before, its previous owner was a well known pedophile. You might be looking at the firing squad if they catch you with that lemon.
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 07:58:09 Are you fucking insane? You post a link, I click it to see what nonsense you are bringing up this time I get a Forbidden message and you tell me I clicked on a different link than the one you posted. You are the stupidest dickhead I ever came across, you make Paramount look like a rocket scientist.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 08:03:41 Once again, everyone here can testify that epicfail.com is not a forbidden site. This prove to the board, if you are going to a forbidden site, that you are using a different link, probably from the bookmarks, mmuch the same way you mistakenly logged on as hot rod from the bookmarks. The previous owner was a well known 400lb pedophile who died on xmas day when he got stuck trying to get into the crawlspace in his santa suit and died of suffocation. His computer is probably riddled with child porn. You do realize they have the DP in Kansas?
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 08:13:43 ^-Fucking moronic idiot.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 08:37:08 "No, everyone here can testify its epicfail.com, thus you are clicking as different url. If its forbidden, you really should report that computer. As I told you before, its previous owner was a well known pedophile. You might be looking at the firing squad if they catch you with that lemon. "
Jewgle Member	Sat Jun 19 08:42:07 Holy fucking christ, with dukhats retarded title line and HR's totally lack of understanding the subject. I have to dub this one of the most retarded threads in a while. HR you admitted that you didnt know of this concept and then clearing showing you're not understanding this so now can you fucking possibly know the repercussions of if there would or are any? God damn....
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 08:47:07 Asked and answered.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 08:47:22 poor guy knows nothing about his own country. Doesnt even know the constitution as he was similarly pwnd on the other day lol
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 08:48:54 No, I wasn't. You are just too stupid to understand what the 14th Amendment said.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 08:50:46 ^Also known as a pathological liar who pretends he's ead.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 08:50:59 *dead
Renzo Marquez Member	Sat Jun 19 12:16:09 I've heard that the webmaster or epicfail.com has forbidden access by pedophiles. Angel's inability to view the site seems to confirm this.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 12:40:30 TG 1) you haven't shown where the government seized GM's assets. Deals were worked out where different entities took different stakes in the new company. The alternative was the company going under and them getting far less return on their investment as GM was repo'd. Also, we're still waiting for an explanation of the repercussions that you claim will happen.
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 13:18:47 The company should have went under and the bondholders paid in full ahead of the unions. The Unions had received $47 Billion in cash for the health insurance liability, the other $19 Billion in stock gave them full payment for the plan. While the bondholders, who should have been paid first had to settle for 33 cents on the dollar. Perhaps 'seize' is too strong a term but the bondholders were screwed royally in the process. As for Constitutional violations: Starts with putting Hillary in place as secretary of state.. In doing so he violated the "emoluments clause", you can Google that for more detail. Since when does the government have the RIGHT to take trillions of our dollars and use them to shore up / purchase controlling interest in privately held corporations? Since when does the government have the authority to tell privately held organizations they must take the money or risk an audit that would ruin their credit rating? Since when does the government have the power to loan money to a corporation and refuse to take it back because they want to maintain their unlawful control of a privately held corporation? Where in the constitution does it allow for federal healthcare? Where in the constitution does it allow for a national civilian police force? Where does it provide the authority for the cap and trade program? If you think those actions are Constitutional then you are bonkers.
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 13:19:50 *-other $10 Billion in stock
Dickhead UPer Member	Sat Jun 19 13:57:35 "Starts with putting Hillary in place as secretary of state.. In doing so he violated the "emoluments clause", you can Google that for more detail. " LOL, no, no. I've got to hear this. How was it unconstitutional?
CrownRoyal Member	Sat Jun 19 14:06:47 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28179393/ Wht Rod, (I presume he watched some fox program) is talking about.
Dickhead UPer Member	Sat Jun 19 14:08:46 Oh, I know. I just want him to interpret.
CrownRoyal Member	Sat Jun 19 14:09:31 I didn't know. I had to google it. Sorry.
Dickhead UPer Member	Sat Jun 19 14:12:21 lol, no need for apologies. I just want to hear his explanation. Among is other retarded statements in his post. Especially the part about the national civilian police force. LOL!
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 14:13:53 *gets pizza slice*
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 14:33:15 Dickhead, I should have know you would be too stupid to use google. No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have have been encreased during such time. . . . --U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 6, Clause 2 Dickhead - Especially the part about the national civilian police force. LOL! http://www...xt_from=PL&playnext=1&index=30
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 14:39:24 "Clinton to make about $4,700 less than Condoleez Rice." I had not heard about that deveopment, I stand corrected.
CrownRoyal Member	Sat Jun 19 14:40:10 Oh come on, Fox did not mention it?
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 14:45:06 Poor idiot redneck knows nothing about his own country lol
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 14:49:52 Fuck off, I said I stood corrected. In case you dont understand such a simple sentence it means I was wrong. Go sober up and come back when you can carry on an adult conversation without insulting people.
Renzo Marquez Member	Sat Jun 19 14:50:50 You stood retarded before you stood corrected. You still stand a catfood-eating pedophile.
Dickhead UPer Member	Sat Jun 19 14:51:52 This has nothing to do with using google or not as I already know this was a retarded issue brought forth when Clinton was nominated for the position. I just find it hilarious that you're dumb fucking ass still is harping on it where in reality that her position was not an infringement. I just had to hear it from you so I can get a good fucking laugh at your dumbass expense. And the "national security force" you fucking idiot has nothing to do with Obama having his own force. This method of such has been going on especially during Bush's Administration. All types of conractors have gone to Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama was saying that more resources could go with them and here is the shocker....the Bush Administration agreed with Obama's assessment! Holy fucking shit! Now google that you fucktard.
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 15:16:25 Did you watch the video? I didn't think so.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 15:18:16 Is it more child porn? In that case, please learn to use NSFW.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 15:42:19 we're still waiting for an explanation of the repercussions that you claim will happen HR.
Madc0w Member	Sat Jun 19 16:00:15 Now when will Dukhat admit his thread title was wrong?
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 16:01:12 And I'm still waiting for your admission that you believe the President has repeatedly violated The Constitution.
Renzo Marquez Member	Sat Jun 19 16:01:59 We're still waiting for you to release Lil Davey.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 16:05:32 I was thinking of going with repeatedly violated lil davey but whatever
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 16:08:40 A) The administration is irrelevant to the discussion on cumulative voting. It wasn't even the administration's idea. B) still having trouble reading? I already said: "Oh, I absolutely agree that they've done things that I think are unconstitutional. "
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 16:10:47 really, Hot Rod just has no legs to stand on or he wouldn't be trying so hard to not talk about it.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 16:13:16 HR's like a zombie. Unless you shoot his head off, he'll just keep slowly crawling after you leaving a trail of blood and rotting guts no matter how many bullets you put in his body.
Renzo Marquez Member	Sat Jun 19 16:16:04 Good analogy. Someone should cut off hit rotten zombine cock for Lil Davey's benefit though.
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 16:28:56 Your "admission" was nothing more than another cut at Bush. I dont know of any infringements of Civil Right left over from the Bush Administration that wer not approved by Congress, and dependin on the time frame it may have been a democratic Congress. I'm not going to look it up. I am talking about policies his administration has fomed and carried out.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 16:46:58 "Your "admission" was nothing more than another cut at Bush. " Sure it was. I believe Bush cut away privacy and civil rights and I believe not only has Obama violated campaign promises by not scaling that stuff back but has infact gone above and beyond the civil rights and privacy violations that Bush instituted. " I dont know of any infringements of Civil Right left over from the Bush Administration that wer not approved by Congress, and dependin on the time frame it may have been a democratic Congress. " Does that make the infringements any less legal if they violate the constitution? You still haven't answered the questions related to the OP, you tool.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 16:47:49 Does that make the infringements any more* legal if they violate the constitution?
The Guardian Member	Sat Jun 19 17:01:12 No it doesn't, I just wanted to see if you would blame Obama for the infractions that are solely his. I think a serious ramification of this way of voting is that someday, someone, possibly Obama, but not necessarily him might conceivably, once The Constitution is shattered and lies in ruins might come along and say something like this poor under represented (minority of your choice) is outnumbered 50 to one. Let's give them 50 pulls on the voting lever so they can elect some of their people. Sorry, I do not believe a voter should be able to vote six times for the same person. Nor 50 times for the same person.
Ninja Member	Sat Jun 19 17:21:20 "No it doesn't, I just wanted to see if you would blame Obama for the infractions that are solely his. " How is going above and beyond Bush's civil rights/privacy violations not solely violations of his own? Ie the right to unilaterally kill American citizens in foreign countries that are on no battle field? "Let's give them 50 pulls on the voting lever so they can elect some of their people. " Here's what you don't understand. EVERYONE gets 50 votes if anyone gets 50 votes and a multitude of positions are represented by this vote. If, in this case, people vote all 6 times for one candidate they get no say in the other 5 candidates that are being elected. It's a system that promotes more moderate politicians who are more likely to be able to work to solve the problems that the people face.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Jun 19 17:26:15 overall, this is mathematically nearly identical to a situation wherein everyone gets a single vote, but elections for all of the offices in question are held at the same time. i'd prefer a situation wherein everyone gets one vote, and the top 6 finishers are elected, but it's not a big deal. the significant difference here is that this method makes the voter feel more warm and fuzzy inside. whatever. results appear to be: 1 african american elected 1 latino elected 4 white folks elected according to wiki, this community is about 60% white. why would there be any objections to an election system that results in 66% of the elected representatives also being white?
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Jun 19 17:30:18 our method of electing folks is simply a reminder that it was the old Roman Republic that our founding fathers where thinking of when they wrote our constitution. picking the word "Senate" to describe our upper house was no coincidence, after all. nor was the euphemism "property" to describe slaves in all cases that the word appears in our Deceleration of Independence and Constitution. the time for reform is long past due. what is described here isn't exactly what i would advocate on a larger scale, but it's a worthy experiment. California's Prop 15 is similarly worthy. http://www.smartvoter.org/2010/06/08/ca/state/prop/15/
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Jun 19 17:42:06 i also definitely would prefer plurality party elections. what this would mean: california has 50something seats in the house. lets use 50 for easier math. elect each 25 every two years. so, you step into the voting booth. you see each political party capable of getting X signatures listed. attached, each party has a list of 25 names. if that party miraculously got 100% of the vote, all 25 of those names would be given a seat. more likely, the breakdown would be something like 35% republican 45%, democrat, 20% other. so, the half of California's house of representatives elected that session would end up being 9 republicans, 11 democrats, and 5 green/libertarian/tea/whatever. suddenly, the democratic and republican leadership has a reason to actually give a fuck about how independent voters feel about things.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sat Jun 19 17:55:29 Poor Roddy. He just doesnt understand the USA.
Dukhat Member	Sat Jun 19 18:31:05 Fuck that parliamentary bullshit. Our system works fine as it is to nominate moderate candidates as it is. Independent voters don't give a shit about the green or wacky extremist parties. They care about government working effectively and we don't need the 10-15% of fringe voters fucking up things with a voice at the table. This 6 votes for a hispanic candidate only nominates extremist la raza candidates. Do you ever hear of white supremecist candidates anymore? No. La raza and all those bullshit groups are the same thing but for hispanics.
Dickhead UPer Member	Sat Jun 19 18:31:34 Hot rod, did you listen when I said that the bush adminstration was in favor of what obama was saying? Didn't think so. It would be nice if you would be more informed before you open your god damn mouth. But no, you just open and spew out all kinds of stupid shit. I'm suprised you didn't go into convulsions from all the kids in that video. I know ur a pedophile.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Jun 19 18:32:26 and if some Latino communities elect La Raza fanatics, general public sentiment towards those communities will adjust itself accordingly.
Madc0w Member	Sat Jun 19 18:49:46 "HR's like a zombie." HR *is* a zombie, unless you subscribe to the theory that he's a ghost. Either way, he rose from the dead and has all the intelligence of a dead person.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Jun 20 00:48:32 So how does one register the tag Hot Zombie these days?
garyd Member	Sun Jun 20 01:01:49 Everybody gets six votes not just the minorities, guardian. I works in a rather more convoluted way than necessary because there are a lot more caucasian candidates than their will be black or Latino candidates, hence the votes of the Latinos and blacks, will be split among far fewer candidates than will be the caucasian vote. The problem here is that the city fathers didn't want to do what about 98% of the rest of the towns in the country do and divide up in to districts. This is not to say that the district method does much for minorities either.
The Guardian Member	Sun Jun 20 07:48:34 Dickhead - And the "national security force" you fucking idiot has nothing to do with Obama having his own force. I think you are confusing the "national security force" with the "Civilian Expeditionary Workforce." Here is the difference. "In January, without any recognizable corporate media coverage, Rep. Bob Filner, a California Democrat, introduced H.R. 675. The bill would amend title 10 of the United States Code and extend to civilian employees of the Department of Defense the authority to execute warrants, make arrests, and carry firearms. The bill was referred to the Armed Services Committee on January 26, 2009. Filnerâ??s bill would amend the United States code with the following: "Sec. 1585b. Law enforcement officers of the Department of Defense: authority to execute warrants, make arrests, and carry firearms... or any offense against the United States." (Emphasis added.) The Posse Comitatus Act, passed on June 18, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction, limits the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits members of the federal uniformed services from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property within the United States. H.R. 675 sidesteps Posse Comitatus by defining â??law enforcement officer of the Department of Defenseâ?? as "a civilian employee of the Department of Defense," including federal police officers, detectives, criminal investigators, special agents, and game law enforcement officers classified by the Office of Personnel Management Occupational Series 0083 (the United States Office of Personnel Management is described as an "independent agency" of the U.S. government that manages the civil service of the federal government)." "According to Sec. Def. Robert Gates, defeating terrorism will require the use of more â??soft power, with civilians contributing more in communication, economic assistance, political development and other non-military areas. "Gates called for the creation of new government organizations, including a permanent group of civilian experts with a wide range of expertise who could be sent abroad on short notice as a supplement to U.S. military efforts. And he urged more involvement by university and other private experts," the Associated Press reported in late 2007. (Civilian Expeditionary Workforce.) It should be noted that the original Civilian Expeditionary Workforce directive mentions the term "overseas" no fewer than 33 times, while the Obama revision does not mention "overseas" at all. In other words, the revised directive is designed for "emergency operations" in the United States. Both H.R. 675 and the DoD Civilian Expeditionary Workforce directive will establish civilian â??soft powerâ?? under the direction of the Pentagon. Obama is now actively working to create a paramilitary "civilian national security force thatâ??s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-fundedâ?? as the military. In order to skirt Posse Comitatus, Obama's paramilitary brownshirts will be organized and run out of the Office of Personnel Management with orders coming from the Pentagon. In the recent past, the Pentagon sent operatives to snoop on anti-war and patriot demonstrations â?? for instance, Alex Jonesâ?? protest at the Federal Reserve was monitored by the Pentagon . In the not too distant future they will likely send â??civiliansâ?? with firearms and the power to arrest â??rightwing extremistsâ?? who represent, according to the Department of Homeland Security and numerous federalized police agencies, "offense against the United States." http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14160
Dickhead UPer Member	Sun Jun 20 08:29:28 "I think you are confusing the "national security force" with the "Civilian Expeditionary Workforce." Here is the difference. " No, not confused at all. You're the one confused. Here let me end this for you. That video that shows the young lads that you get off on, are of the Explorer program that is part of BSA. They go and "explore" different professions to learn as it's part of their motives to pursue that career once elgible if they want. The video that you shared to "prove" your point that they are being trained to be part of the OSA (Obama Socialist Army, you like that? Thought you would?) is nothing more than what has been going on for decades ever since the program was introduced. And they were using air soft guns. This program started in the 1930s. So what, you still have nothing to say since the Bush Administration supported Obama's ideas about the civilian force?
Dickhead UPer Member	Sun Jun 20 08:34:48 And the icing on the cake...the type of bait that you use to lure you small, defenseless, hairless victims. http://mediamattersaction.org/smears/200909170014 Smear: AmeriCorps Is Obama's "Civilian National Security Force" Akin To Hitler's SS September 17, 2009 9:56 am ET Conservative conspiracy theorists insist President Obama is determined to turn AmeriCorps into a "civilian national security force" akin to Hitler's SS. The claim originates from a single speech then-Sen. Obama delivered emphasizing the need for Americans to serve their communities. Needless to say, the claim has been widely debunked. Smear: AmeriCorps Is Obama's "Civilian National Security Force" Akin To Hitler's SS Beck claims Obama's "civilian national security force" is "what Hitler did with the SS," "what Saddam Hussein" did. Discussing Obama's "civilian national security force," Beck said, "I'm finding this -- this is the hardest part to connect to, because this is -- I mean, look, you know, David [Bellavia, former Army staff sergeant], what you just said is, you said, "I'm not comparing" -- but you are. I mean, this is what Hitler did with the SS. He had his own people. He had the brownshirts and then the SS. This is what Saddam Hussein -- so -- but you are comparing that. And I -- I mean, I think America would have a really hard time getting their arms around that." [Fox News' Glenn Beck, 8/27/09] WorldNetDaily: "Democrat Sen. Barack Obama's stunning assertion in a recent speech that the U.S. needs a 'civilian national security force' that would be as powerful, strong and well-funded as the half-trillion dollar Army, Marines, Navy and Air Force is not included in published transcripts of his prepared remarks. In the July 2 speech in Colorado Springs, Obama insisted the U.S. 'cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set.'" [WorldNetDaily, 7/16/09] The Truth The Experts At FactCheck.org Soundly Debunked This Conspiracy Theory: "Similar claims have been circulating in right-leaning blogs and conservative Web sites ever since July, when Obama made a single reference to a "civilian national security force" in a campaign speech in Colorado. Obama's detractors make much of his expansive (and exaggerated) description of such a force as being "just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded" as the U.S. military. They also ignore the context. "Obama was not talking about a "security force" with guns or police powers. He was talking specifically about expanding AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps and the USA Freedom Corps, which is the volunteer initiative launched by the Bush administration after the attacks of 9/11, and about increasing the number of trained Foreign Service officers who populate U.S. embassies overseas. "Here is the relevant portion of what Obama actually said, with the sentences quoted selectively by Broun and others in bold." Obama, July 2, Colorado Springs, CO: "[As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose. "People of all ages, stations and skills will be asked to serve. Because when it comes to the challenges we face, the American people are not the problem - they are the answer. So we are going to send more college graduates to teach and mentor our young people. We'll call on Americans to join an energy corps, to conduct renewable energy and environmental clean-up projects in their neighborhoods all across the country. "We will enlist our veterans to find jobs and support for other vets, and to be there for our military families. And we're going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. "We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. We need to use technology to connect people to service. We'll expand USA Freedom Corps to create online networks where American can browse opportunities to volunteer. You'll be able to search by category, time commitment and skill sets. You'll be able to rate service opportunities, build service networks, and create your own service pages to track your hours and activities. "This will empower more Americans to craft their own service agenda and make their own change from the bottom up." [FactCheck.org, 11/11/08] Now move along pedofagphile.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Jun 20 08:35:59 Poor Rod. So hopelessly ignorant about US affairs one almost suspects the whiny, tantrumy, foot stamping little brat is posting from a muslim country.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Jun 20 08:36:18 Poor little muslim troll
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