Utopia Talk / Politics / 40% tax on Cadillac plans

xyz1 Member	Mon Apr 05 15:25:37 Who's the moron who thought that it was a good idea to punish the people that put the most money into the health care system? Honestly, who the hell came up with this?
habebe Member	Mon Apr 05 15:28:17 Nancy pelosi?
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Apr 05 15:57:42 Well it is the left in this country that enjoys punishing success.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 16:25:49 excellent idea. Cadillac plans is one of the reasons that caused huge inflation in healthcare. I am sorry that you are not aware of this.
Y2A Member	Mon Apr 05 16:34:29 pretty strongly supported by most economists.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 16:46:29 Yes. Most educated people who are well versed on this issue strongly supported the tax. But look at the people who jumped in railing against it: xyz, habebe, and cloud strife. I mean, just know the list of names is enough to tell you whether you should support the issue or not- you don't even have to read the arguments.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 16:48:57 Let's just wait till bloodbag "I have a 30BMI but I could still eat 5 KFC double-downs without worrying about my weight" chimes in with the three aforementioned posters to seal the deal.
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Apr 05 16:55:15 Wow, it's a guy who doesn't even capitalize or put a space between a name, doesn't justify his statements and is in general a fucking retard. Also there's a fucker who doesn't even have a job and has far as I can tell has never had one, but has ALWAYS acted like an arrogant prick. I'll care. Really I will.
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Apr 05 16:59:03 http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2887 `Taxing insurers that offer high-cost plans can help to slow the growth of health care costs and health insurance premiums. Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf has indicated that limiting the favorable tax treatment of high-cost health insurance could be one of the most effective ways of bending the rising curve of health care costs. The proposed excise tax on high-cost plans would discourage insurers from offering, and firms from purchasing, extremely generous health insurance coverage that encourage excess health care utilization. That, in turn, would reduce incentives for excessive health care spending and ultimately could contribute to making health care and health coverage more affordable for Americans generally.' I assume this is your general argument. Shall I proceed to point out its fallacy and immorality, or should I let you be?
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 17:03:02 "Wow, it's a guy who doesn't even capitalize or put a space between a name, doesn't justify his statements and is in general a fucking retard. Also there's a fucker who doesn't even have a job and has far as I can tell has never had one, but has ALWAYS acted like an arrogant prick. I'll care. Really I will." See? This is the kind of argument they can best manage.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 17:07:34 Unless you are a philosopher who are trained in moral philosophy, I'd prefer not to hear your silly little personal pontification on immorality.
Cloud Strife Member	Mon Apr 05 17:09:05 OOh, a trained moral compass. Shove a tampon in it Eikey. You ain't no economist, and you're not employed either. So your words are twice as irrelevant. You're a fat ass loser who mooches off his wife, so maybe if the question is how to make your wife a sandwich, I'll consult you.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 17:15:23 Let me get this straight, CS. Your first comeback was that my handle is not capitalized and has no space between a name. And then you top it off by copying The Children's flame by telling people to shut up and how poor they are? Really. Even making a simple comeback stretches their intellectual capabilities to the limit.
habebe Member	Mon Apr 05 17:51:21 " Yes. Most educated people who are well versed on this issue strongly supported the tax. But look at the people who jumped in railing against it: xyz, habebe, and cloud strife." Where did I say this?
Dakyron Member	Mon Apr 05 18:05:11 The tax on the cadillac plan does not solve any of the fundamental problems causing the increase in healthcare costs. None. It is simply a tax to pay for the monstrosity of a "reform" bill that passed.
miltonfriedman Member	Mon Apr 05 23:15:45 CBO says differently. I'll take CBO'a assessment.
Turtle Crawler Admin	Tue Apr 06 00:53:37 The only thing that the tax attempts to 'solve' is the cost of health insurance - by moving money currently in the 'pre-payed' column into the 'taxable' column. It will cause costs to go up for individuals without providing any mechanisms for them to save for these costs, resulting in less incentives to seek or save for medical treatment. Beyond that, it does nothing to fix the real problem in health care, which is the difference in tax treatment between employer and individual plans. This is in sharp contrast to conservative plans, such as those found at the CATO institute, which would be for everyone to be able to put money into large HSA's with which they could buy all medical care, including insurrance.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Apr 06 00:57:42 http://hea...et-approach-health-care-reform Is this the Cato plan?
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 07:22:35 " CBO says differently. I'll take CBO'a assessment." Wait one sec. Are you saying that the 40% tax increase on Cad. plans helps to lower the inflation of HC costs? I could understand your claiming that it will help fund the new expansion program (If it ever actually gets voted in come 2018) but how will this somehow lower cost inflation?
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 07:33:30 Also, the Ex-CBO director doug horitz eakin had this to say " In reality, if you strip out all the gimmicks and budgetary games and rework the calculus, a wholly different picture emerges: The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion." He then goes on to explain how " Gimmick No. 1 is the way the bill front-loads revenues and backloads spending. That is, the taxes and fees it calls for are set to begin immediately, but its new subsidies would be deferred so that the first 10 years of revenue would be used to pay for only 6 years of spending. Even worse, some costs are left out entirely. To operate the new programs over the first 10 years, future Congresses would need to vote for $114 billion in additional annual spending. But this so-called discretionary spending is excluded from the Congressional Budget Officeâ??s tabulation." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinion/21holtz-eakin.html The full article is at the link
The Guardian Member	Tue Apr 06 07:37:47 This makes as much sense as a 40% tax on cadiilacs. What next, a 40% tax on all of our purchases?
Tea Party Member	Tue Apr 06 07:41:07 "What next, a 40% tax on all of our purchases?" VAT anyone?...thats Value Added Tax, Charpy.
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 07:44:51 Well, I understand the 40% tax. It would in theory pay for a lot of the new expenses in this bill if it ever gets passed. I'm not saying it's the best way to bring in revenue, but at least it makes an attempt to fund this bill.
The Guardian Member	Tue Apr 06 07:47:46 If you buy a better car than mine sholud you be forced to pay a 40% tax on it?
The Guardian Member	Tue Apr 06 07:59:50 Also, would you have a problem if they gave that 40% you just paid in taxes to me so I could buy a better car?
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 08:02:43 tg, I didn't say I supported the idea.But I understand it.Again, at least they are attempting to pay for this bill rather than passing it with no attempts* to fund it.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Apr 06 08:07:59 You can fund just about anything if you pass enough unjust taxes. If it cannot pay for itself it has no justification to even be considered. You can understand it all you like as long as you totally oppose it.
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Apr 06 08:08:39 *faints
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 10:24:25 WHAT!@#$%^&*()_!!! I'm not even high today.Wait maybe I am...
CrownRoyal Member	Tue Apr 06 10:26:35 My eyes welled up with tears when I saw that nick.
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 10:29:08 I took a double, triple, quadruple take and then rubbed my eyes and took another look. Could it be he faked his death?
Dakyron Member	Tue Apr 06 10:41:44 Wow... this could be the best troll/worst joke of all time. If someone hasnt stolen his SN.
Lil39 Davey New Member	Tue Apr 06 10:48:15 I welled up with tears and also felt my asshole involuntarily clench up real tight.
river of blood Member	Tue Apr 06 10:57:43 I think everyone's asshole puckered shut a little bit when they read this.
Still Well Member	Tue Apr 06 11:05:46 lol epic.
Freddy Member	Tue Apr 06 11:18:27 self pwnt lol
Cloud Strife Member	Tue Apr 06 11:41:51 Right...
The Guardian Member	Tue Apr 06 16:31:22 Sorry, I used the nick that came with the machine. I guess I hit it by mistake when I logged on. I bought this computer at a garage sale a couple of weeks ago and I don't know how to remove that registration. Does anyone know how I can delete it?
habebe Member	Tue Apr 06 16:40:10 tg, BULL SHIT
miltonfriedman Member	Tue Apr 06 16:45:03 "If you buy a better car than mine sholud you be forced to pay a 40% tax on it? " The Cadillac Plan is not being purchased. It is designed as an incentive for employees (especially the privileged employees who already made a lot of money).
The Guardian Member	Tue Apr 06 16:55:16 mf, it is being paid for with their labor. In the cases that the President is talking about the emplyee usually contributes more to the company than others and whether you call it income or benefits he still receives it because of that contribution. As I recall he is still trying to find a way to exempt the union's caddilac plans from this tax.
miltonfriedman Member	Tue Apr 06 17:00:17 Yes, unfortunately, Obama lacked the majority required to tax the Cadillac plan. Hopefully that will change soon. But no one is being taxed for their labor in this case. The package is given regardless of the "effort" you put in, unlike wages.
The Guardian Member	Tue Apr 06 17:07:20 To earn a cadillac plan you need to put forth a cadillac effort unless you are in a union or live in a sopcialist economy. The free market is built of performance, not freebies.
Paramount Member	Thu Apr 15 12:31:47 "Hot Rod Member Tue Apr 06 08:07:59" So Hot Rod is still alive?!? Haha I knew it!
charper Member	Thu Apr 15 12:37:12 The biggest liar in UP history. What a miserable fucking cunt.
charper Member	Thu Apr 15 12:50:17 And also the worst, true to form "The Guardian Member Tue Apr 06 16:31:22 Sorry, I used the nick that came with the machine. I guess I hit it by mistake when I logged on. I bought this computer at a garage sale a couple of weeks ago and I don't know how to remove that registration. Does anyone know how I can delete it?" AAHHAHHHAAA
PhunkyPhishStyle Member	Thu Apr 15 20:39:00 Fuck you HR.
mexicantornado Member	Thu Apr 15 22:42:39 Fuck you HR.
Canadian Member	Sun Apr 18 02:12:14 Up. Also, fuck you "the guardian".
KreeL Member	Sun Apr 18 03:29:48 LOL - HR fakes his own death to avoid getting hammerfuckated.
Canadian Member	Tue Apr 20 15:15:12 ttt for lies.
Firestorm Phoenix Member	Wed Apr 21 19:14:30 Epic fail. Quite possible the most epic fail in the history of UP.
fghbnj New Member	Mon May 10 08:52:45 ##2 thank you for vist my site
griddjames New Member	Thu May 20 12:54:21 ##9 thank you for vist my site
Pissflaps McGee Member	Wed Aug 08 16:00:43 .
CrownRoyal Member	Wed Aug 08 16:03:01 Roflmao, I did almost faint. Even though I knew all along.
Forwyn Member	Wed Aug 08 19:54:55 "The Cadillac Plan is not being purchased." RIP
Hrothgar Member	Wed Aug 08 20:14:15 Didn't Romney enact this exact same thing in Massachusetts? I know he supported and implemented a law requiring health insurance there - and as far as I've heard it has worked out just fine.
Sam Adams Member	Wed Aug 08 23:57:47 bwahahahahhaah @ the people that believed that.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 02:43:20 Ttt
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 07:27:40 You asked for it Big Brother. Now you want to replace it with single payer which will be much worse.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 07:30:44 ^ clueless idiot doesn't know this thread is years old, and is the same thread where he blew his The Guardian cover.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 07:37:34 Wrong thread fool.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 07:40:11 "Wrong thread fool." Lol, yet another post from Hot Rod that makes zero sense. What are you talking about, "wrong thread?" "Wrong thread" what?
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 07:46:14 ERR... This is the thread you are in, "Utopia Talk / Politics / 40% tax on Cadillac plans." Not The Guardian thread.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 07:49:31 Learn to read you dumbass. In this thread, which is several years old, you (aka The Guardian) accidentally forget to change your screen name and make up your dumb lie about the garage sale. Why Is every post you make completely wrong. Lol.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 07:57:24 My mistake and my apologies. I thought this was a current thread, not another thread that *YOU* dredged up from the past. So that is two Guardian threads that you brought up form a decade ago because you are incapable of coming up with any original insults. Proves my point, you really are weak minded. Please try to come up with something new so you will be more interesting.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 07:59:10 Again, your obsession with "insults" and "original insults." This is a thread to remind everyone what a lying sack of degenerate shit you are. As if anyone forgot.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 11:42:41 This is ancient. As I said, I have apologized over and over for my error in judgement. As far as I know most of the forum members have forgotten or forgiven, even jergul has forgive me, the incident of my claiming to have died. I felt at the time I had a good reason. Only you, as far as I know, seem to be claiming this is still relevant.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 21:11:25 Apologized for what? Lying? You still do that all the time, old man.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 22:27:27 Just because you believe in the the side of issues that will destroy this country does not mean I am lying when I believe in the side of those same issues that will save the country does not mean I am lying. It merely means you are in error.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 22:32:06 Hot Rod you know nothing of what side of the issues I take.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 22:54:22 I think your obvious stupidity makes it obvious.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 23:09:24 Hot Rod: "I don't like you. You must be a Democrat." Typical partisan hack thinking.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 23:50:52 Makes sense to me.
smart dude Member	Thu Feb 18 23:52:31 Yes I know it does.
Hot Rod Revved Up	Thu Feb 18 23:56:38 At least you know something that is the truth and not a lie.
Cloud Strife Member	Tue Oct 11 14:30:52 This thread is a little peace of history and this post is my pissing all over it.
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