Utopia Talk / Politics / We need a different political gauge

garyd Member	Sat Mar 20 02:29:30 A different political line. Instead of left-right call it north-south, east-west or what ever. I'm going to use a 1 to 10 scale. O is anarchy 10 is totalitaianism.Complete anarchy and you have no government at all. complete totalitarianism and the government is in total control of everything. The more crap you think the government ought to do the more closely you approach totalitarianism.
Forwyn Member	Sat Mar 20 02:31:22 http://www.politicalcompass.org/
Zombie Jesus Member	Sat Mar 20 02:35:57 How about a cross section of dualities, say law/chaos and good/evil.
garyd Member	Sat Mar 20 02:39:50 Been there done that they are using both x and y I prefer to limit it to just x or just y if you would prefer. All I'm interested in doing is measuring the total amount of government control one wishes to inflict upon the population not just pointing to the areas in which one most thinks such control necessary.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sat Mar 20 03:21:53 unanswerable.
charper Member	Sat Mar 20 05:30:59 google right wing authoritarians
river of blood Member	Sat Mar 20 08:00:15 I'm a 1 if we're talking about world government. I'm a 2 if we're talking about the FEDERAL government. 3 if we're talking about state government. 4 if we're talking about my town. 5 if we're talking about my neighborhood. 7 if we're talking about my home. And 9 if we're talking about just within myself.
habebe Member	Sat Mar 20 09:37:56 the pol. COmp. is OK, in theory, but the questions suck IMO.
Daemon Member	Sat Mar 20 10:23:46 All people who are for the death penaalty can only give 10 as an answer.
Seb Member	Sat Mar 20 11:38:47 Garyd: That is just one of the axis of the political compass.
Nekran Member	Sat Mar 20 11:50:21 "I'm going to use a 1 to 10 scale. O is anarchy 10 is totalitaianism." Fail... in several ways.
saiko Member	Sat Mar 20 12:00:45 "The more crap you think the government ought to do the more closely you approach totalitarianism." I want the government to do everything to limit its own power.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Mar 20 13:41:12 doesn't work, garyd. some people will be in favor of an authoritarian government in one area, but in favor of near-anarchy in another. the normal 'conservative' and 'liberal' false dichotomy simply goes from one corner of the traditional 4-quadrant map to another: from legislate ethics but not the economy, to legislate the economy but not ethics. you have simply created one that goes from 'statist' to 'libertarian' - again, leaving the other two quadrants completely off.
pillz Member	Sat Mar 20 13:51:32 garyd, how are you so stupid?
Private Johnson Member	Sat Mar 20 13:59:22 lol, rob is so full of shit
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Mar 20 13:59:49 better way to put what i said above: you took something broken, and broke it in a new way. you took a busted chair with only three legs and, instead of adding a fourth leg, you 'fixed' it to have a rocker on one side and 2 legs on the other.
saiko Member	Sat Mar 20 15:45:28 I think a better analogy is that he took a two-dimensional system known to be incomplete and then removed half of it.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sat Mar 20 15:50:13 a chair with a rocker on one side and 2 legs on the other is funnier.
saiko Member	Sat Mar 20 15:55:15 A suitcase shaped like a fish is even funnier, but not nearly as apt.
charper Member	Sat Mar 20 15:58:03 neither have me rolling about on the floor.
saiko Member	Sat Mar 20 16:03:38 And that is all we need to say about this topic, I believe.
Freddy Member	Sat Mar 20 22:20:11 1 FED 2 State 3 My property
Freddy Member	Sat Mar 20 22:20:41 I mean 10 my property.
garyd Member	Sat Mar 20 22:48:27 God what idiots we ahve on the left. Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless. Any system that puts Hitler anywhere near libertarians is obviously retarded. The current system resembles a flipping bowl not a chair. I removed half of nothing. And saiko your comment would be funny if it weren't so flipping pathetic. Given you think we need government control of medicine, CO2 and a whole host of other things on this scale you are closer to a 7 or possibly an 8. Near as I can tell about the only thing you don't want the government to control is sex and drugs but everything else is fair game.
saiko Member	Sun Mar 21 04:59:27 "Given you think we need government control of medicine, CO2" When did I ever say either of those? You're making stuff up again.
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 05:16:19 "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless. Any system that puts Hitler anywhere near libertarians is obviously retarded." Jesus christ, this coming from the lunatic who goes around preaching that Hitler and Mussolini were lefties rofl
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Mar 21 05:25:11 @garyd - i don't think you refuted a single point made against your false dichotomy.
saiko Member	Sun Mar 21 05:25:47 He did say something about ahveing idiots. I think that was his rebuttal.
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 05:33:22 garyduh - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " garyduh - "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless." fucking moron
AIPAC Member	Sun Mar 21 05:33:29 The only gauge you need, is how much you love jews. If you love jews, you are a real mensch and our favourite pet, the other end of the spectrum, you are like hitler and we will do all we can to destroy you!
river of blood Member	Sun Mar 21 05:53:14 "You god damned hippy leftists! Why can't be more like me and stop judging everything as left or right?" RIP
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 09:53:07 "garyduh Member Sun Mar 21 09:48:05 Yes charper we already know that you and your cohort of leftist dweebs " garyduh - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " garyduh - "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless." lol
garyd Member	Sun Mar 21 10:20:35 garyd - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " Statement of fact look at the Wiki definition of fascism and tell me who that resembles more? Conservatives or Leftists? Dewey one of the American lefts founding fathers was particularly fond of Mussolini ideas and they in fact form the underpinnings of much of the New Deal. See also the Hiram 7 review of Johnah Goldbergs excellent Liberal Fascism. And by all means quit confounding Fascism and Naziism while they are certainly similar in certain regards they are scarcely identical.
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 10:22:51 garyduh, Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 10:57:23 garyd - "Sorry no borthas I can always find another Job though the last leftist fix of health care made that more difficult than it used to be. " "garyduh Member Sun Mar 21 09:48:05 Yes charper we already know that you and your cohort of leftist dweebs " garyduh - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " garyduh - "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless." Lol...
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Mar 21 11:03:48 but really, look at the system he put in place here. 0-10 on a number line. all he did was place low government (currently the right wing) on the left and high government (currently the left wing) on the right. you could at least have made a circle so that you eliminate this "right and left" that you appear to hate (and yet, is by far your favorite insult).
garyd Member	Sun Mar 21 11:04:00 Now how about the full quote ass hole instead of cherry picking. Oh and do you always laugh at the truth? Or are you just to demented to see?
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 11:30:53 garyd - "Wilk not sure exactly what you are referencing but just in case the last leftist health care fix tied your health insurance to your job. " garyd - "Sorry no borthas I can always find another Job though the last leftist fix of health care made that more difficult than it used to be." "garyduh - "Yes charper we already know that you and your cohort of leftist dweebs " garyduh - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " garyduh - "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless." lol...
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 11:31:50 The Fox Bot just can't help itself lol...
garyd Member	Sun Mar 21 11:32:07 Nice to see you're as clueless as ever charper.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Mar 21 12:52:22 " 0-10 on a number line. all he did was place low government (currently the right wing) on the left and high government (currently the left wing) on the right. " no, he didn't. oversimplification. example: making a law specifically about, say, burning the flag. according to you, right wingers would be closer to zero. but they would clearly be more likely to be in favor of outlawing flag burning. the notion that "conservatives like small government" is a lie. they like small government involvement in the ECONOMY, and big government everywhere else. same with the left: they want small government in ETHICAL issues, and big government everywhere else.
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 12:54:04 "and big government everywhere else" except in one major cost area, the military.
earthpig GTFO HOer	Sun Mar 21 12:58:03 "except in one major cost area, the military. " democrats turn things into an economy issue, and justify legislation because of that. republicans turn things into an ethical issue, and justify legislation because of that.
charper Member	Sun Mar 21 16:09:26 Oh man, I missed the funniest one - in this thread about how stupid it is with the left/right dichotomy lmao "garyd Member Sat Mar 20 22:48:27 God what idiots we ahve on the left. Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless."
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Sun Mar 21 18:14:15 EP, his line is straight up big or small government. there really isn't much of a difference from what we have now and what we have in his new scheme. you're still trading one 'number line' for another (in the right vs. left argument). however, if you take the 2d graph version that gets posted here every now and then, he's taken something with multiple variables and simplified it, making quantification give even less data. either way, this is a ridiculous idea.
garyd Member	Mon Mar 22 00:03:48 Nonsense clit. What it does is give you a gauge to measure the total amount of government control one seeks The x-y graph form doesn't tell you that as easily or as completely. All you can get from the xy graph is really extreme positions. You don't need a two dimensional graph to measure one thing. We have an equation with only one real variable the amount of federal laws you think there ought to be. Why do we need two dimension to measure one variable.
charper Member	Mon Mar 22 04:29:16 We dont, the authoritarianism of you Santa Claus The Almighty Dictator beggers has already been measured: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
charper Member	Mon Mar 22 04:31:47 garyd - "So,left wing hypocrisy is perfectly acceptable but right wing hypocrisy s verboten, I gotcha" garyduh - "Wilk not sure exactly what you are referencing but just in case the last leftist health care fix tied your health insurance to your job. " garyduh - "Sorry no borthas I can always find another Job though the last leftist fix of health care made that more difficult than it used to be." garyduh - "Yes charper we already know that you and your cohort of leftist dweebs " garyduh - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " garyduh - "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless." rofl
charper Member	Mon Mar 22 05:30:27 garyduh - "Get your dumb asses off the left right dichotomy its pretty much pointless." garyduh - "Pyrrhic victory what the left did with health care today... garyduh - "So,left wing hypocrisy is perfectly acceptable but right wing hypocrisy s verboten, I gotcha" garyduh - "Wilk not sure exactly what you are referencing but just in case the last leftist health care fix tied your health insurance to your job. " garyduh - "Sorry no borthas I can always find another Job though the last leftist fix of health care made that more difficult than it used to be." garyduh - "Yes charper we already know that you and your cohort of leftist dweebs " garyduh - "Yes both Hitler and Moussolini were quite popular with the American left right up until the Spanish Civil War... " Lol, noone talks as much about left/right as the fucking moron garyduh...
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Mon Mar 22 11:46:09 garyd, there isn't 1 kind of law that the govt is responsible for. this is why simple "govt control" is a bogus system. if you look at marriage, I think the govt should have a 2 on your system. basically, they should be able to set up laws for married couples pertaining to economics. that's all. when it comes to killing people, I'd give them a 7. I'm pretty sure most people want to NOT be dying, and having accountability will prevent at least a few crimes. this doesn't show up at all on your graph, cause I can't split the difference, call it 4 or 5 and convey the point. cause you'd make all sorts of assumptions about issues that I didn't rate in my answer to your question.
garyd Member	Mon Mar 22 22:16:30 You are making it too complicated. I'm looking at totals not six from column A 3 from column B so forth and so on. Frankly I don't think Marriage or abortion should be a federal issue. Those are items that ought to be up to the individual states to resolve.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Mon Mar 22 23:55:43 garyd: http://tinyurl.com/yeoklfv
garyd Member	Tue Mar 23 00:09:30 In case you don't notice I don't care whather you or she is sick of it. I still think there is a useful purpose for establishing a gauge that measure the total amount of government control in a given system and your stattement that governments control more than one thing does not make the notion of government control by law and or regulation less relevant. You're too busy looking at the bark on the trees to recognize that you're lost in the forest...
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Tue Mar 23 02:15:52 "Frankly I don't think Marriage or abortion should be a federal issue." seeing as marriage applies to federal taxes, it better damn well be a federal issue. as for your forest metaphor, SURE! except that I don't really feel the need to categorize things to make blanket statements. I don't rely on "right" and "left" to pass judgment. in fact, it's those generalizations that tv tards use to openly lie to the public and make complete asses of themselves to any competent person.
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