Utopia Talk / Politics / Civilian Ammunition Control

Hot Rod Member	Tue Dec 22 19:59:32 Ammunition Control by the Obama Administration by A.W.R. Hawkins 12/22/2009 Without bullets, a gun is no more useful as a weapon than a rock or a hammer. Although an unloaded gun could be thrown at an intruder or a tyrant, the lack of ammunition ultimately reduces it to the status of a glorified paperweight. And this is not lost on the nearly 100 million gun owners in America, a number of which are asking if the current shortage of bullets is the result of backdoor efforts at gun control (via ammunition control) by the Obama Administration? The quick answer to that question is -- not exactly. In other words, the reasons behind the current shortage, as the well as the price increases on what little ammunition is available, are both governmental and nongovernmental in nature. As for the governmentâ??s role, a prime example arose in March 2009 when the Department of Defense (DOD) suddenly changed its policy about selling old brass from spent military rounds to Georgia Arms, an ammunition manufacturer located in Winston, Georgia. According to Curtis Shipley, President of Georgia Arms, on March 12, 2009, the DOD, which had been a longstanding source of cheap brass for the ammo manufacturer, decided that brass could only be purchased from the military if it was â??mutilated.â?? In other words, it would not longer be possible to buy empty brass casings that Georgia Arms could then clean, quickly reload, and sell to the public at a low price. When I spoke to Shipley, who had been accustomed to buying spent brass in increments of fifteen tons from the DOD, he said, â??This portended higher prices because it required us to either mutilate perfectly good brass when we picked it up from a military base or have a DOD employee travel with us (and the brass) to verify that we did indeed mutilate it at a another site.â?? Once mutilated, Georgia Arms would have had to melt the brass down, re-alloy it (casings for each caliber require a specific alloy blend that can sustain the pressures for that caliber), and then re-shape it into the proper casing for whichever caliber they were manufacturing. Said Shipley: â??Such a process would add approximately $90 to the cost of one thousand rounds of 9mm ammunition right off the bat.â?? Fortunately, the public outcry against this DOD maneuver was so great that the order to mutilate all brass was rescinded after just five days. However, those five days were enough to contribute to another problem the government had been causing since November 2008 â?? namely, fear of an all out Obama-led assault on guns and ammo. Speaking to this fear, Larry Pratt, Executive Director of Gun Owners of America, said: â??You can go to gun stores all over the country and many of them will have a picture of President Obama hanging on the wall. However, when you get up close to the picture and look at the caption on the bottom, instead of saying â??Presidentâ?? it says â??Gun Salesman of the Year.â??â?? Pratt said gun owners are rightly leery of this administration. Obama supports the new California law that will require every semi-automatic pistol sold in that state to come equipped with a special firing mechanism that makes a distinctive mark â?? a â??fingerprintâ?? â?? on every bullet casing it fires. And currently, some Democrats in the House of Representatives want to take that law a step further and enact legislation that would force ammunition companies to place serial numbers on every shell casing they manufacture. Let me just say that if you think ammunition is scarce and expensive now, wait till manufacturers have to put a serial number on every casing and maintain records containing the names, addresses, etc., of everyone who purchases such casings. No wonder Pratt said: â??None of this is about safety. Rather, itâ??s about finding ways to create an ammo and gun registry that will allow the government to finally figure out which son got daddyâ??s gun when daddy passed away.â?? And while the government is doing its part to make ammunition harder to find, either directly, via episodes like the one between Georgia Arms and the DOD, or indirectly, by scaring citizens to death through anti-gun posturing that has caused a run on ammo sales, the market plays a role as well. With demand outpacing supply the market sustains higher prices for ammo under Obama than it was able to sustain for that same ammo during the presidency of a pro-gun politician like George W. Bush. Add to this the fact that weâ??re now sending the majority of the lead from our recycled car batteries to China, instead of selling that lead to ammunition manufacturers who can cheaply reclaim it to make affordable bullets for their casings, and itâ??s no wonder consumers are scrambling to find ammunition and then paying a fortune for it when they do. Did I fail to mention that millions upon millions of rounds of ammunition are currently being diverted to our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere right now as well? While this is understandable, it further highlights the fact that we gun owners are in a tight spot, as far as getting ammunition for our guns is concerned. With all these variables affecting the availability of ammunition, this would be a great time to join a group like Gun Owners of America. By so doing we would assure the politicians in D.C. that if they use their offices to further deny us bullets for our guns, we will use the voting booth to deny them the very offices they now hold. HUMAN EVENTS columnist A.W.R. Hawkins holds a Ph.D. in U.S. Military History from Texas Tech University. He will be a Visiting Fellow at the Russell Kirk Center for Cultural Renewal during the summer of 2010. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=34932
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Tue Dec 22 20:04:07 delete this fucking repeat spam thread.
Rugian Member	Tue Dec 22 20:06:48 WTF - one thread wasn't enough for you HoT roD?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Dec 22 20:08:02 This thread is for those interested in the subject.
Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge	Tue Dec 22 20:08:44 you derailed your own thread. this is just spam.
purvis Member	Tue Dec 22 20:11:45 delete this spam.
Archivist Member	Tue Dec 22 20:12:54 This is where we were: pillz Member Tue Dec 22 19:29:05 And again, Hot Rod totally ignores that he was wrong. Do you even read posts that aren't your own? pillz Member Tue Dec 22 19:29:47 And sorry Hot Rod, I hate to break it to you but the ammo shortage does not only affect civilians and militias - it affects Law Enforcement aswell, and that has been the case for several years now. Most police and sheriff departments order their ammunition 6 to 18 months in advance of when they will need it because they simply can't get ahold of it otherwise. Some have even cut back the number of hours needed when completing annual rifle training because the ammunition is too expensive and too hard to order in bulk. Why is this a problem? Probably has something to do with the fact that you have been fighing 2 wars for the last 8 years. Maybe you've forgotten Hot Rod but the US hasn't been in a long-term conflict for several decades now. When the military is buying up ammunition as fast and in as large quantities as it is, and it does it for years on end, the industry does get strained. Now on top of fighting 2 wars for the last 8 years, you have also had a whole year (and probably a little more then a year) of civilians buying all the ammo they can get their hands on. But no, it can't possibly be that the ammo problem is caused by a simple supply and demand issue. Obama must have ORDERED the manufactures to cut back production, and he also ORDERED the DoD to stop selling cheap cases to them. Yup. ObamaObamaObamaObama. "Tell that to Chrysler and General Motors." I am so happy to see that you read the rest of the post, btw. And Chrysler and GM lost their rights when they begged on their knees for billions in bailout money. Chrysler most of all, because they aren't even publically traded. Try again. Hot Rod Member Tue Dec 22 19:38:16 ] pillz - But no, the problem can't possibly be that the ammo problem is caused by a simple supply and demand issue. Obama must have ORDERED the manufactures to cut back production... Thank you for reading my post while you were at it. "I made a comment not long ago that the Obama administration had ordered civilian ammo manufacturers to cut back production. Evidently I was wrong, this is a more likely scenario." pillz - Some have even cut back the number of hours needed when completely annual rifle training because the ammunition is too expensive and too hard to order in bulk. Why is this a problem? Probably has something to do with the fact that you have been fighing 2 wars for the last 8 years. Maybe you've forgotten Hot Rod but the US hasn't been in a long-term conflict for several decades now. "the DOD, which had been a longstanding source of cheap brass for the ammo manufacturer, decided that brass could only be purchased from the military if it was "mutilated." "When I spoke to Shipley, who had been accustomed to buying spent brass in increments of fifteen tons from the DOD, he said, "This portended higher prices because it required us to either mutilate perfectly good brass when we picked it up from a military base or have a DOD employee travel with us (and the brass) to verify that we did indeed mutilate it at a another site."" "Once mutilated, Georgia Arms would have had to melt the brass down, re-alloy it (casings for each caliber require a specific alloy blend that can sustain the pressures for that caliber), and then re-shape it into the proper casing for whichever caliber they were manufacturing. Said Shipley: "Such a process would add approximately $90 to the cost of one thousand rounds of 9mm ammunition right off the bat." BTW, you said nothing of Chrysler and General Motors in your post. pillz Member Tue Dec 22 20:01:22 @ Hot Rod The DoD cutting backing MARCH 2009 was not the problem, dumbass. Law Enforcement has been having trouble procuring ammunition for a few years now. But obviously youre to stupid to understand that when I say: "it affects Law Enforcement aswell, and that has been the case for several years now." Cause to you, MARCH 2009 = several years ago "BTW, you said nothing of Chrysler and General Motors in your post." What are you, 4? I didn't have to mention them, because they are not relevant. Unless you provide a source which shows the ammo-industry begged on their knees for bailout funds, then your comment about GM & Chrysler is meaningless (which is it). Fuck youre stupid. Hot Rod Member Tue Dec 22 20:06:54 Then this post makes no sense. HR - "Tell that to Chrysler and General Motors." I am so happy to see that you read the rest of the post, btw. And Chrysler and GM lost their rights when they begged on their knees for billions in bailout money. Chrysler most of all, because they aren't even publically traded. Try again. I read the rest of your post, it doesn't mention Chrysler and GM. Clitoral Hood The Bloody Scourge Tue Dec 22 20:10:33 it makes perfect sense.
Firestorm Phoenix Member	Tue Dec 22 20:38:20 2 fucking threads? Just because people say you are wrong, doesn't mean spamming will make you any more right. Delete this thread.
Godzirra Member	Sat Dec 26 06:32:34 *RAMPAGE*
Passerby Member	Sat Dec 26 07:52:29 In the early 60's (I was 13), on Friday nights we would take our rifles on a city bus to a rifle range. The Canadian government subsidized ammunition for civilian rifle clubs. The cartridges had DND stamped on them. We paid twelve cents for a ten round target which came with an old guy scoring it, several adults offering advice, badges, pins, etc. I can imagine the reaction today if two 13 year old boys got on a city bus carring .22 rifles. We had to have the bolts out, of course. In those days every bus driver would know what a bolt was and how to tell if it was out.
McKobb Member	Sat Dec 26 08:07:51 My high school had a rifle range and I was on the rifle team. However after school while the gunny was still there we could bring .22 rifles and hand guns no larger than 9mm practice with. (It was an inside range)
Passerby Member	Sat Dec 26 09:29:25 ...and today they call out a swat team and kids are expelled for having a toy gun.
McKobb Member	Sat Dec 26 09:31:49 Actually my old high school still has a rifle team and I'd give good odds you can shoot there after hours.
Passerby Member	Sat Dec 26 10:11:52 I'm glad to hear that it still going on.
jergul Member	Tue Dec 29 13:44:01 ttt in memorandum possibly.
the lord god Member	Wed Dec 30 08:53:09 ttt
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