Utopia Talk - Politics - Obama Near Decision

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Obama Near Decision

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 05:49:27

There is talk of sending The 101st Airborne and The 10th Mountain Divisions plus additional units.

Sources: Obama near decision on Afghanistan troops
By ANNE GEARAN and STEVEN R. HURST

AP

WASHINGTON -President Barack Obama is nearing a decision to add tens of thousands more forces to Afghanistan, though probably not quite the 40,000 sought by his top general there.
The White House emphasized that the president hasn't made a decision yet about troop levels or other aspects of the revised U.S. strategy in Afghanistan.
Administration officials told The Associated Press on Monday the deployment would most probably begin in January with a mission to stiffen the defense of 10 key cities and towns. An Army brigade that had been training for deployment to Iraq that month may be the vanguard. The brigade, based at Fort Drum in upstate New York, has been told it will not go to Iraq as planned but has been given no new mission yet.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the president would meet again Wednesday with key members of his foreign policy and military team but was unlikely to announce final plans for Afghanistan until late this month, when he returns from an extended diplomatic trip to Asia.
Gibbs said the Pentagon is "working on additional recommendations" to present to Obama and said Obama has made no decision on troop numbers, or even on what the ratio should be between combat troops and trainers.
Military officials said Obama will have choices that include a phased addition of up to 40,000 forces over some six months or more next year, based on security conditions and the decisions of NATO allies.
Several officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision has not been made also said Obama's announcement will be much broader than the mathematics of troop numbers, which have dominated the U.S. debate.
It soon will be three months since Afghan commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal reported to Obama that the U.S. mission was headed for failure without the addition of about 40,000 troops.
The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because final plans have not been disclosed, dubbed the likely troop increase as "McChrystal Light" because it would fall short of his request. They also said additional small infusions of troops could be dispatched next spring and summer.
The more gradual buildup, the officials said, would allow time to construct needed housing and add equipment needed for transporting the expanded force.
Besides being sent to cities and towns, the new forces would be stationed to protect important roads and other key infrastructure.
As he makes his decision, Obama told ABC News that he's been "asking not only Gen. McChrystal but all of our commanders who are familiar with the situation, as well as our civilian folks on the ground, a lot of questions that, until they're answered, may â?? may create a situation in which we resource something based on faulty premises."
He said he wanted to make sure "that if we are sending additional troops that the prospects of a functioning Afghan government are enhanced, that the prospects of al-Qaida being able to attack the U.S. homeland are reduced."
â??
AP White House Correspondent Jennifer Loven contributed to this report.

http://new...-obama-near-decision-on/742441

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 07:42:12

The 10th Mountain has an interesting story that I heard once.

During WWII in Italy they were given orders to take a position that required a very difficult climb in front of the enemy positions. So difficult The Germans considered it unclimbable.

Ergo, they had to make the climb at night when it was pitch dark.

When they reached the top they easily took the enemy positions, only to find out they climbed the wrong ridge in the darkness.

Undaunted, and exhausted, after their all night climb and battle, they proceeded to attack the correct enemy positions and defeated them too.

The 10th Mountain receives some of the most rigorous training in the army and they are ideally suited for combat in Afghanistan.

Muslim
Member Tue Nov 10 07:51:30
^ lol

Firestorm Phoenix
Member Tue Nov 10 08:03:09
And as Band of Brothers has taught us, the 101st is required to be badass.

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 08:07:01

Them too.

No need to list their achievements, they are legendary.

jergul
Member Tue Nov 10 08:34:05
On the same timeline, veteran German units would not have reached 1942 yet.

What do you think they would have looked like after another year without rotation?

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 08:49:34

I don't understand your question.

jergul
Member Tue Nov 10 13:38:19
The war ended too early to rule on the 101 compared to German divisions.

The first year or so of combat is easy. The toll really kicks in afterwards.

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 14:44:34

I think they acquitted themselves quite well at Bastogne.

Not To Mention:

Campaign Participation Credit

* World War I (2nd and 3rd Brigades ONLY):

1. Hundred Days Offensive (also known as the Battle of Saint-Quentin or the Second Battle of the Somme);
2. Meuse-Argonne Offensive;
3. Picardy 1918

* World War II (except 159th Aviation Brigade):

1. Normandy (with arrowhead);
2. Rhineland (with arrowhead);
3. Ardennes-Alsace;
4. Central Europe

* Vietnam War (Except 159th Aviation Brigade):

1. Defense (1st Brigade Only);
2. Counteroffensive (1st Brigade Only);
3. Counteroffensive, Phase II (1st Brigade Only)
4. Counteroffensive, Phase III;
5. Tet Counteroffensive;
6. Counteroffensive, Phase IV;
7. Counteroffensive, Phase V;
8. Counteroffensive, Phase VI;
9. Tet 1969/Counteroffensive;
10. Summer-Fall 1969;
11. Winter-Spring 1970;
12. Sanctuary Counteroffensive;
13. Counteroffensive, Phase VII;
14. Consolidation I;
15. Consolidation II

* Southwest Asia (Except 159th Aviation Brigade):

1. Defense of Saudi Arabia;
2. Liberation and Defense of Kuwait

[edit] Decorations

1. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for NORMANDY (Division and 1st Brigade Only)
2. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for BASTOGNE (Division and 1st Brigade Only)
3. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for DAK TO, VIETNAM 1966 (1st Brigade only)
4. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for DONG AP BIA MOUNTAIN (3rd Brigade Only)
5. Valorous Unit Award for THUA THIEN PROVINCE (3rd Brigade and DIVARTY Only)
6. Valorous Unit Award for TUY HOA (1st Brigade Only)
7. Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army) for VIETNAM 1965-1966 (1st Brigade Only)
8. Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army) for VIETNAM 1968 (3rd Brigade Only)
9. Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army) for SOUTHWEST ASIA (Except 159th Aviation Brigade)
10. French Croix de Guerre with Palm, World War II for NORMANDY (Division and 1st Brigade Only)
11. Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 with Palm for BASTOGNE (Division and 1st Brigade Only);
12. cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action at BASTOGNE (Division and 1st Brigade Only)
13. Belgian Fourragere 1944 (Division and 1st Brigade Only)
14. Cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action in FRANCE AND BELGIUM (Division and 1st Brigade Only)
15. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1966-1967 (1st Brigade Only)
16. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1968 (2d Brigade Only)
17. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1968-1969 (Except 159th Aviation Brigade)
18. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1971 (Except 159th Aviation Brigade)
19. Republic of Vietnam Civil Action Honor Medal, First Class for VIETNAM 1968-1970 (Except 159th Aviation Brigade)
20. Republic of Vietnam Civil Action Honor Medal, First Class for VIETNAM 1970 (DIVARTY only)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division#Honors

xyz1
Member Tue Nov 10 14:58:36
HR,

jergul's point is that the American armed forces had been fighting a German military that had already been exhausted by nearly five years of combat.

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 16:21:18

I understand that, I just don't think it was that big a factor.

The 101st and the elements at Bastogne had fought there way across 500 miles of Europe during a six month period.

They were exhausted too, plus they were not equipped for winter operations, most had little more than their summer clothes and a fatigue jacket. Also most of their medical supplies had been destroyed.

Meanwhile the Germans had been resting in the rear area while preparing for the attack. Their attack force for the campaign amounted to 800,000. It took some time to get them organized.

Add to all of that, The 101st was heavily outnumbered.

I don't see the Germans being in any worse shape than The 101st.

But that is just my opinion.

xyz1
Member Tue Nov 10 17:00:53
Well I suppose it depends on a few factors. If a significant number of German troops had been cycled out of the Eastern Front to defend against the western Allies, then it's no contest (the USSR after all did the bulk of the fighting and killing).

Firestorm Phoenix
Member Tue Nov 10 17:28:46
And dying.

Ubes JAC
Wildebeest Tue Nov 10 17:59:07
"jergul's point is that the American armed forces had been fighting a German military that had already been exhausted by nearly five years of combat.
Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 16:21:18

I understand that, I just don't think it was that big a factor."

lulz

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 18:02:08

Rest of Statement:

"The 101st and the elements at Bastogne had fought there way across 500 miles of Europe during a six month period.

They were exhausted too, plus they were not equipped for winter operations, most had little more than their summer clothes and a fatigue jacket. Also most of their medical supplies had been destroyed.

Meanwhile the Germans had been resting in the rear area while preparing for the attack. Their attack force for the campaign amounted to 800,000. It took some time to get them organized.

Add to all of that, The 101st was heavily outnumbered.

I don't see the Germans being in any worse shape than The 101st.

But that is just my opinion."

Rugian
Member Tue Nov 10 18:11:49
Hot Rod:

The reason he ignored the rest of your post is because it is irrelevant. In comparison to the Germans, 500 miles was nothing. The Germans covered that distance just with the opening drive to Moscow. That doesn't take into account the years of grueling campaigns and retreats that followed.

US forces got to fight the remnants of an army shattered by the Soviets. 500 miles in the west means nothing compared to 500 in the east.

Hot Rod
Member Tue Nov 10 18:16:51

When will you guys start reading the entire post instead of pulling a few words or a single sentence that suits your argument.

I get so tired of that.

charper
Member Wed Nov 11 04:20:16
When will you fucking understand what a quote is, while at the same time being the worst offender of cherry picking?

This entire board gets so tired of that.

show deleted posts

Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 05:49:27 There is talk of sending The 101st Airborne and The 10th Mountain Divisions plus additional units. Sources: Obama near decision on Afghanistan troops By ANNE GEARAN and STEVEN R. HURST AP WASHINGTON -President Barack Obama is nearing a decision to add tens of thousands more forces to Afghanistan, though probably not quite the 40,000 sought by his top general there. The White House emphasized that the president hasn't made a decision yet about troop levels or other aspects of the revised U.S. strategy in Afghanistan. Administration officials told The Associated Press on Monday the deployment would most probably begin in January with a mission to stiffen the defense of 10 key cities and towns. An Army brigade that had been training for deployment to Iraq that month may be the vanguard. The brigade, based at Fort Drum in upstate New York, has been told it will not go to Iraq as planned but has been given no new mission yet. White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said the president would meet again Wednesday with key members of his foreign policy and military team but was unlikely to announce final plans for Afghanistan until late this month, when he returns from an extended diplomatic trip to Asia. Gibbs said the Pentagon is "working on additional recommendations" to present to Obama and said Obama has made no decision on troop numbers, or even on what the ratio should be between combat troops and trainers. Military officials said Obama will have choices that include a phased addition of up to 40,000 forces over some six months or more next year, based on security conditions and the decisions of NATO allies. Several officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision has not been made also said Obama's announcement will be much broader than the mathematics of troop numbers, which have dominated the U.S. debate. It soon will be three months since Afghan commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal reported to Obama that the U.S. mission was headed for failure without the addition of about 40,000 troops. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because final plans have not been disclosed, dubbed the likely troop increase as "McChrystal Light" because it would fall short of his request. They also said additional small infusions of troops could be dispatched next spring and summer. The more gradual buildup, the officials said, would allow time to construct needed housing and add equipment needed for transporting the expanded force. Besides being sent to cities and towns, the new forces would be stationed to protect important roads and other key infrastructure. As he makes his decision, Obama told ABC News that he's been "asking not only Gen. McChrystal but all of our commanders who are familiar with the situation, as well as our civilian folks on the ground, a lot of questions that, until they're answered, may â?? may create a situation in which we resource something based on faulty premises." He said he wanted to make sure "that if we are sending additional troops that the prospects of a functioning Afghan government are enhanced, that the prospects of al-Qaida being able to attack the U.S. homeland are reduced." â?? AP White House Correspondent Jennifer Loven contributed to this report. http://new...-obama-near-decision-on/742441
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 07:42:12 The 10th Mountain has an interesting story that I heard once. During WWII in Italy they were given orders to take a position that required a very difficult climb in front of the enemy positions. So difficult The Germans considered it unclimbable. Ergo, they had to make the climb at night when it was pitch dark. When they reached the top they easily took the enemy positions, only to find out they climbed the wrong ridge in the darkness. Undaunted, and exhausted, after their all night climb and battle, they proceeded to attack the correct enemy positions and defeated them too. The 10th Mountain receives some of the most rigorous training in the army and they are ideally suited for combat in Afghanistan.
Muslim Member	Tue Nov 10 07:51:30 ^ lol
Firestorm Phoenix Member	Tue Nov 10 08:03:09 And as Band of Brothers has taught us, the 101st is required to be badass.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 08:07:01 Them too. No need to list their achievements, they are legendary.
jergul Member	Tue Nov 10 08:34:05 On the same timeline, veteran German units would not have reached 1942 yet. What do you think they would have looked like after another year without rotation?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 08:49:34 I don't understand your question.
jergul Member	Tue Nov 10 13:38:19 The war ended too early to rule on the 101 compared to German divisions. The first year or so of combat is easy. The toll really kicks in afterwards.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 14:44:34 I think they acquitted themselves quite well at Bastogne. Not To Mention: Campaign Participation Credit * World War I (2nd and 3rd Brigades ONLY): 1. Hundred Days Offensive (also known as the Battle of Saint-Quentin or the Second Battle of the Somme); 2. Meuse-Argonne Offensive; 3. Picardy 1918 * World War II (except 159th Aviation Brigade): 1. Normandy (with arrowhead); 2. Rhineland (with arrowhead); 3. Ardennes-Alsace; 4. Central Europe * Vietnam War (Except 159th Aviation Brigade): 1. Defense (1st Brigade Only); 2. Counteroffensive (1st Brigade Only); 3. Counteroffensive, Phase II (1st Brigade Only) 4. Counteroffensive, Phase III; 5. Tet Counteroffensive; 6. Counteroffensive, Phase IV; 7. Counteroffensive, Phase V; 8. Counteroffensive, Phase VI; 9. Tet 1969/Counteroffensive; 10. Summer-Fall 1969; 11. Winter-Spring 1970; 12. Sanctuary Counteroffensive; 13. Counteroffensive, Phase VII; 14. Consolidation I; 15. Consolidation II * Southwest Asia (Except 159th Aviation Brigade): 1. Defense of Saudi Arabia; 2. Liberation and Defense of Kuwait [edit] Decorations 1. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for NORMANDY (Division and 1st Brigade Only) 2. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for BASTOGNE (Division and 1st Brigade Only) 3. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for DAK TO, VIETNAM 1966 (1st Brigade only) 4. Presidential Unit Citation (Army) for DONG AP BIA MOUNTAIN (3rd Brigade Only) 5. Valorous Unit Award for THUA THIEN PROVINCE (3rd Brigade and DIVARTY Only) 6. Valorous Unit Award for TUY HOA (1st Brigade Only) 7. Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army) for VIETNAM 1965-1966 (1st Brigade Only) 8. Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army) for VIETNAM 1968 (3rd Brigade Only) 9. Meritorious Unit Commendation (Army) for SOUTHWEST ASIA (Except 159th Aviation Brigade) 10. French Croix de Guerre with Palm, World War II for NORMANDY (Division and 1st Brigade Only) 11. Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 with Palm for BASTOGNE (Division and 1st Brigade Only); 12. cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action at BASTOGNE (Division and 1st Brigade Only) 13. Belgian Fourragere 1944 (Division and 1st Brigade Only) 14. Cited in the Order of the Day of the Belgian Army for action in FRANCE AND BELGIUM (Division and 1st Brigade Only) 15. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1966-1967 (1st Brigade Only) 16. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1968 (2d Brigade Only) 17. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1968-1969 (Except 159th Aviation Brigade) 18. Republic of Vietnam Cross of Gallantry with Palm for VIETNAM 1971 (Except 159th Aviation Brigade) 19. Republic of Vietnam Civil Action Honor Medal, First Class for VIETNAM 1968-1970 (Except 159th Aviation Brigade) 20. Republic of Vietnam Civil Action Honor Medal, First Class for VIETNAM 1970 (DIVARTY only) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101st_Airborne_Division#Honors
xyz1 Member	Tue Nov 10 14:58:36 HR, jergul's point is that the American armed forces had been fighting a German military that had already been exhausted by nearly five years of combat.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 16:21:18 I understand that, I just don't think it was that big a factor. The 101st and the elements at Bastogne had fought there way across 500 miles of Europe during a six month period. They were exhausted too, plus they were not equipped for winter operations, most had little more than their summer clothes and a fatigue jacket. Also most of their medical supplies had been destroyed. Meanwhile the Germans had been resting in the rear area while preparing for the attack. Their attack force for the campaign amounted to 800,000. It took some time to get them organized. Add to all of that, The 101st was heavily outnumbered. I don't see the Germans being in any worse shape than The 101st. But that is just my opinion.
xyz1 Member	Tue Nov 10 17:00:53 Well I suppose it depends on a few factors. If a significant number of German troops had been cycled out of the Eastern Front to defend against the western Allies, then it's no contest (the USSR after all did the bulk of the fighting and killing).
Firestorm Phoenix Member	Tue Nov 10 17:28:46 And dying.
Ubes JAC Wildebeest	Tue Nov 10 17:59:07 "jergul's point is that the American armed forces had been fighting a German military that had already been exhausted by nearly five years of combat. Hot Rod Member Tue Nov 10 16:21:18 I understand that, I just don't think it was that big a factor." lulz
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 18:02:08 Rest of Statement: "The 101st and the elements at Bastogne had fought there way across 500 miles of Europe during a six month period. They were exhausted too, plus they were not equipped for winter operations, most had little more than their summer clothes and a fatigue jacket. Also most of their medical supplies had been destroyed. Meanwhile the Germans had been resting in the rear area while preparing for the attack. Their attack force for the campaign amounted to 800,000. It took some time to get them organized. Add to all of that, The 101st was heavily outnumbered. I don't see the Germans being in any worse shape than The 101st. But that is just my opinion."
Rugian Member	Tue Nov 10 18:11:49 Hot Rod: The reason he ignored the rest of your post is because it is irrelevant. In comparison to the Germans, 500 miles was nothing. The Germans covered that distance just with the opening drive to Moscow. That doesn't take into account the years of grueling campaigns and retreats that followed. US forces got to fight the remnants of an army shattered by the Soviets. 500 miles in the west means nothing compared to 500 in the east.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Nov 10 18:16:51 When will you guys start reading the entire post instead of pulling a few words or a single sentence that suits your argument. I get so tired of that.
charper Member	Wed Nov 11 04:20:16 When will you fucking understand what a quote is, while at the same time being the worst offender of cherry picking? This entire board gets so tired of that.
	show deleted posts

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