Utopia Talk / Politics / Why Atlas Shrugged May Not Get Made

Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 21:43:03 If you haven't noticed, the Obama administration is wielding its sword with reckless abandon. They fire CEOs; they dismiss long-serving government personnel and deem them "disoriented and confused" simply because they didn't agree with the current administration; they take over industries and businesses only to appoint those who lack experience to improve upon current conditions; they threaten to oust White House personnel who speak negatively about Obama or his administration (what about "freedom of speech," our First Amendment right?); Obama has appointed numerous and various "czars" (doesn't that make you a bit uncomfortable?); and, they protect the House Speaker after she lies to the nation. It is becoming very clear that those who disagree with and/or speak out against Obama suffer consequences. Our government is rapidly changing for the worse, and there seems to be no end in sight as to what they will do next. That's why I'm curious to see IF this film gets made and, if so, how honest the filmmakers will be in dealing with the subject matter. Lets just hope that they don't water it down into something that it's not, because what it is is a direct representation of what's wrong with our current government. -french543 (Thu Jun 18 2009 14:57:14) IMDB
Camaban Moderator	Thu Oct 29 21:46:48 >>they threaten to oust White House personnel who speak negatively about Obama or his administration << With this at least, hasn't that been standard practise for decades at least?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 22:17:27 Yep, as well it should. But it has not been a practice for The White House to muzzle an industry for telling their customers when a government policy is bad.
Camaban Moderator	Thu Oct 29 22:20:30 I remember something about that a while back. Got an example that I can read up on?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 22:30:40 http://fro...-by-floyd-and-mary-beth-brown/
Farkeld Member	Thu Oct 29 22:31:46 I'm really hoping that some day you actually read the Constitution.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 22:32:52 "But it didnâ??t take the long for our government to come down hard on Humana. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) initiated an investigation and sent an ominous gag-order to Humana: â??As we continue our research into this issue, we are instructing you to immediately discontinue all such mailings to beneficiaries and to remove any related materials directed to Medicare enrollees from your Web sites.â??"
Rugian Member	Thu Oct 29 22:37:03 As usual Rod tries to find controversy when there is none. "On September 21, 2009 the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services opened an investigation into mass mailings sent by Humana to elderly Medicare recipients.[12] The mail was made to appear to contain official information about Medicare Advantage and prescription drug benefit information, but instead alleged that core Medicare benefits could be cut by the Obama administration's healthcare reform,[13] a claim refuted by the non-partisan website FactCheck[14] and John Rother, AARP's executive vice president.[15] Douglas Elmendorf, the head of the Congressional Budget Office, later supported the claim that Medicare benefits would be cut.[16] However, his comments were in reference to just one of several bills being drafted in Congress, and CBO estimates of another healthcare reform bill found that changes to premiums would vary.[17] Because these mailings may have been paid for by public money provided to Humana for Medicare Advantage and possibly violated terms of their contract, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services instructed Humana to cease all such mailings to Medicare plan members pending an investigation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humana#Controversy
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 22:38:10 Farkeld, what part of The Constitution gives the government the authority to prohibit a company from informing their customers that a particular government program is bad for both of them?
Farkeld Member	Thu Oct 29 22:39:46 *points to Rugians post*
Farkeld Member	Thu Oct 29 22:40:50 *points to Rugians post*
Camaban Moderator	Thu Oct 29 22:44:28 So he used taxpayer money that was given to them for other purposes to spread lies about what the government was doing? It's hard for me to get excited about that one.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 23:22:47 Rugian, the refutation by Factcheck was on August 14, while Humana's letter went out on September 21. Can you link where Factchecks refutation relates directly to the subject of Humana's letter? It just seems odd that Factcheck could refute something that did not go out until over a month later, especially considering the number of different plans and the frequency that the details of all of those plans have changed. And too, remember that tens of thousands of AARP members canceled their memberships because AARP is in bed with Obama over this health reform. And consider this. Don't you think that $162 billion in federal subsidies to Medicare Advantage will have an adverse effect on the senior benefits? "Douglas Elmendorf, the head of the Congressional Budget Office, later supported the claim that Medicare benefits would be cut." I got my CMM booklet the other day and I discovered that my co-pays for seeing my doctor or a specialist are both going up $5 and I may even have to start paying a $20 monthly premium, I won't know for sure about that until I get my Social Security notification. So you will pardon me if I do not put too much credence to your WIKI article. The whole Health Reform issue is just too volatile. Camaban - So he used taxpayer money that was given to them for other purposes to spread lies about what the government was doing? They are not lies if it is the truth. "Douglas Elmendorf, the head of the Congressional Budget Office, later supported the claim that Medicare benefits would be cut."
Camaban Moderator	Thu Oct 29 23:25:09 >>They are not lies if it is the truth. "Douglas Elmendorf, the head of the Congressional Budget Office, later supported the claim that Medicare benefits would be cut." << Was distributing this the purpose for which the money was given to them?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 23:36:04 Like any huge corporation all monies received are deposited to the same bank account I would imagine. Doesn't matter if the money comes from the government or from profits for their operations that have nothing to do with seniors or Medicare. They balances are tracked through their accounting procedures, but not the actual money. Each year the different departments are given a budget and when they spend the money it all comes out of the same account. It is not kept in a separate bank account.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 23:38:18 "Because these mailings may have been paid for by public money..." Is just double talk by the administration.
Sam Adams Cat Member	Fri Oct 30 02:34:59 "Like any huge corporation all monies received are deposited to the same bank account I would imagine." wtf are you waffling about? of course, that could be asked about every one of your sentences.
MRBEER Member	Fri Oct 30 03:25:55 "Why Atlas Shrugged May Not Get Made" Because it's the sterile, tedious rantings of a hateful bitch?
purvis Member	Fri Oct 30 03:28:04 Obama is gonna stop a Hollywood movie now? Can these false accusations get any less credible?
saiko Member	Fri Oct 30 06:03:58 "Like any huge corporation all monies received are deposited to the same bank account I would imagine." Yeah. All big corporations have one bank account. Makes life so much easier.
purvis Member	Fri Oct 30 06:08:29 Not just big corporations, but *HUGE* corporations only have one bank account. HR knows, he used to work in accounting. LMAO
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 30 06:50:30 Hot Rod the moron doesn't realize that it's illegal to use taxpayer money to fund shit like this if you're an organization like Humana. Once again Hot Rod is openly declaring that a longstanding law should be ignored because it helps the GOP. This is beyond shameful; this is dangerous.
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 06:55:53 No, I am declaring that when funds are received by a large corporation they are mixed and there is no way of knowing where the funds come from. Obviously you think Humana has a special bank account set up to track every dime that is received and spent on me personally as a customer. Damn man, that puts you on an intellectual level with charper.
Forwyn Member	Fri Oct 30 06:56:29 To be fair, I doubt a business with a yearly revenue of almost 29 billion dollars needs government funds to send out some letters.
Seb Member	Fri Oct 30 10:25:05 It's the 80 page "radio speech" at the end isn't it? Nah, from what I hear they can make the film and strip out all the stilted and incorrect political aspects and stick with the screwing. They had Angelina Jolie as the lead right?
xyz1 Member	Fri Oct 30 11:09:35 Hot Rod Member Fri Oct 30 06:55:53 "No, I am declaring that when funds are received by a large corporation they are mixed and there is no way of knowing where the funds come from. Obviously you think Humana has a special bank account set up to track every dime that is received and spent on me personally as a customer." You idiot, of course I think that Humana should have an effective cash management tracking system. It's only required by pretty much every financial standards organization out there. If you are attempting to make the argument that a company like Humana can not be held responsible for making sure that it is not paying for projects with public funds that it is not supposed to use for said projects, you are going to lose this argument so bad.
NeverWoods Member	Fri Oct 30 11:13:11 HR: "No, I am declaring that when funds are received by a large corporation they are mixed and there is no way of knowing where the funds come from. " WTF are you on about? Yes they can know where the money if coming from at any given time, it's called book keeping.
NeverWoods Member	Fri Oct 30 11:19:26 I guess i should forgive HR for having such a simple mind when it comes to this, it not like he ever finished school or he had to manage a paying job. Wellfare rats like HR will never understand economy systems.
xyz1 Member	Fri Oct 30 11:22:37 I would just love for Hot Rod to enlighten us with how he perceives the way that corporate accountants track cash.
xyz1 Member	Fri Oct 30 11:25:33 In fact, claiming that "once cash is put into a bank account it is indistinguishable from the rest of the balance" is pretty much a slap in the face of the entire accrual accounting system. If this was true, there would be no way to track prepaid expenses and unearned revenues.
Average American Member	Fri Oct 30 11:26:36 Hot Rod, man, Youre embarrassing us Cons...Please man...
Average American Member	Fri Oct 30 11:27:08 The sad thing is HR worked in accounting all his life...
NeverWoods Member	Fri Oct 30 11:39:33 "The sad thing is HR worked in accounting all his life... " Really? That explains it. When HR puts money in his bank account he draws smiley faces on the bill's, so they won't mix with the welfare money ;)
Multi New Member	Fri Oct 30 12:00:09 I wonder what HR thinks is going on when banks hold multiple accounts for millions of customers including corporations? Magic? Do they get to say, sorry we dont know which money came from you Mrs Smith, its all got mixed up in the pott? If HR really DID work in accounting, thats downright frightening.
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 19:03:41 Seb, Jolie is out. They are talking Theron. The rest of you guys don't know what you are talking about. There is no way that large corporations that have various receivable tie the specific receivable to a specific payable.
Rugian Member	Fri Oct 30 19:19:13 What the fuck are you talking about?
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 03:54:08 "There is no way that large corporations that have various receivable tie the specific receivable to a specific payable. " I dont know whether to say rofl or wow. Guess Ill say roflwow.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 03:57:41 Its sooooooo easy Liberal. Every official payment in the world gets assigned an account number. The number is unique like an IP. Thats all it takes...Dont you get a specification from your bank regularly with exact deposits and extractions? Banks do this for billions of people every day...
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 04:45:15 Multi - Every official payment in the world gets assigned an account number. A major company with 1,000,000 customers has 1,000,000 personal account numbers. That is True. A major company with 1,000,000 customers has 1,000,000 bank accounts to post *each* receivable to. I don't think so. That company is able to pinpoint how each dollar received from each customer account is spent on *which precise* accounts payable. I don't think so.
Forwyn Member	Sat Oct 31 04:47:48 What I want to know is how much money Humana gets from the government, given their massive $29B yearly revenue.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 04:51:13 " I don't think so" You are so wrong. I really hope you didnt work in accounting because this is very, very basic accounting. Your way is illegal.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 04:56:28 The IRS knows every official financial transaction of every person and every company in the country. So do the tax authorities in all developed countries. Every month my bank sends me 3 report3 of every financial transactions in my 3 counts. There are hundreds of millions of people just like me getting those reports. Etc etc etc...How do you think this happens?
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:14:53 Multi, do you ever make more than one deposit to any of those three accounts?
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:36:11 Waiting.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:38:24 ? How do you mean? Not that is is even worth debating because you're so wrong...
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:39:30 Hot Rod, the capacity of this UP board alone can carry hundreds of thousands of accounts and every change made to them correctly...
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:40:38 Hurry Up.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:42:08 "do you ever make more than one deposit to any of those three accounts?" Answer the question please.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:46:25 I just said, I dont know what you mean, your question is badly formulated. I just asked you to explain it better. Do you mean simultaneously? in one day? in a year?
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:46:37 Again: Hurry Up
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:48:07 And actually, I asked you a question first. In fact, several. How about we start with you answering them first?
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:48:58 Do you ever make more than one deposit to any single one of any of those three accounts?
NeverWoods Member	Sat Oct 31 05:49:15 Wow are you fucking retarded HR? Also fix your question, do you mean in a day, week or a month?
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:49:56 Every month my bank sends me 3 reports of every financial transaction in my 3 accounts to which there are probably roughly 100 withdrawals and deposits a month. There are hundreds of millions of people just like me getting those reports. Etc etc etc...How do you think this happens?
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:50:32 "Do you ever make more than one deposit to any single one of any of those three accounts?" Answered. Now answer my question, I asked it first.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:50:44 In a month where two or more deposits show up on the same statement. Jesus.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:52:05 "In a month where two or more deposits show up on the same statement. Jesus." "Answered. Now answer my question, I asked it first."
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 05:55:30 Again: Hurry up please.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:58:46 "reports of every financial transaction in my 3 accounts to which there are probably roughly 100 withdrawals and deposits a month." OK, we have determined that you have at least one of your statements that has at least two, or more deposits, in a given month. Now get out that deposit and see if you can tell me, with any degree of honesty, from which of those deposits the money was taken to pay a specific bill that amounted to less than any of the individual deposits. And please don't try to use a FIFO argument, It does not work that way. EVER.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 05:59:15 And stop being rude.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:01:28 "Now get out that deposit and see if you can tell me, with any degree of honesty, from which of those deposits the money was taken to pay a specific bill that amounted to less than any of the individual deposits. " Oh man...I can see every single transaction exactly, where it came from or where it went...are you really serious?
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:01:47 And the rudeness started wuth you my friend. Waiting.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:04:09 Now answer my question please, I asked it first. Every month my bank sends me 3 reports of every financial transaction in my 3 accounts to which there are probably roughly 100 withdrawals and deposits a month. There are hundreds of millions of people just like me getting those reports. Etc etc etc...How do you think this happens?
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:06:57 "How do you think this happens?" When the bank receives monies for your account they Credit your account. When a charge comes in against your account, they Debit your account. If there is a Credit they *ADD* the amount to a *running balance.* If there is a Debit they *SUBTRACT* the amount from a *running balance.* But it is a "running balance" where a given dollar is not traceable.
Forwyn Member	Sat Oct 31 06:10:00 "Oh man...I can see every single transaction exactly, where it came from or where it went...are you really serious?" I think you're misinterpreting him. He's not asking if the bank has a record of you depositing money, or withdrawing money, he's asking if you, or the bank, have a specific record of money YOU deposited being used to pay off another specific bill of the bank's.
saiko Member	Sat Oct 31 06:16:50 Look, HR, whenever you get subsidies or grants or whatever, you typically have to send a detailed, item-by-item expense report to whoever gave it to you. This is certainly the case for Humana getting funds from the government. If they spent it on things other than what it was meant for, either that is in their expense reports or they cooked the books. Either way they're committing a felony.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:17:20 Forwyn, he knows very well what I mean. He calls that gibberish debating. Multi, "And with that "Byron" I leave you. Proclaim your victory and go think up a new tag."
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:21:09 saiko - Look, HR, whenever you get subsidies or grants or whatever, you typically have to send a detailed, item-by-item expense report to whoever gave it to you. This is certainly the case for Humana getting funds from the government. If they spent it on things other than what it was meant for, either that is in their expense reports or they cooked the books. Either way they're committing a felony. If that is true all he, or the government, has to do is point out on that expense report exactly where Humana expensed the mailing to the funds received from the government. Problem solved.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:22:05 Its a shame you're so rude, but no matter, I wont sink down there. "When the bank receives monies for your account they Credit your account." And I can trace it immediately to the creditor and his account. When a charge comes in against your account, they Debit your account. " And I can immediately see who charged me and their account.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:23:59 But I see you have diverted us all from your original claim, the one I and others refuted: "Like any huge corporation all monies received are deposited to the same bank account I would imagine." This is clearly completely wrong.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:24:02 Yes, but which CREDIT was applied to which DEBIT? Bye, bye.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:26:11 That was saiko's "claim", show me Humana's expense report that proves his claim. Bye, bye.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:26:24 "But I see you have diverted us all from your original claim, the one I and others refuted: "Like any huge corporation all monies received are deposited to the same bank account I would imagine." This is clearly completely wrong. So if you arent man enough to admit that, yes, your only option is probably to leave the thread.
Forwyn Member	Sat Oct 31 06:26:50 Wait wait wait wait. I'm looking into this a bit more: Humana hasn't been issued any grants, subsidies, or bailouts. They seem to be talking about money Humana received from Medicare to provide a service to their customers. Is this really what people are bitching about?
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:34:29 Let me explain one thing before I leave. My claim is that a Humana Expense Report specifically covering the disbursement of monies received from the government *DOES NOT* exist. Clearly I cannot *prove* my claim without publishing every expense occurred by Humana. An impossibility. Saiko and you are claiming that such a report *DOES* exist. A claim that can conceivably be proved. Ergo, the burden of proof is on you. Have a nice day Byron and please don't bother me again, I have more important things to do than fool with you.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:36:24 "But I see you have diverted us all from your original claim, the one I and others refuted: "Like any huge corporation all monies received are deposited to the same bank account I would imagine." This is clearly completely wrong. So if you arent man enough to admit that, yes, your only option is probably to leave the thread.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:38:08 Forwyn - I'm looking into this a bit more: Humana hasn't been issued any grants, subsidies, or bailouts. I kind of thought that myself, but I though I could argue from an accout POV. That was before I realized who I was dealing with. Multi, what I said about "burden of proof" belonging to you applies to Forwyn's statement as well ass it does mine.
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:47:18 You're actually continuing to think that all money GM receives, it receives into the same bank account? Lol!
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:49:15 So thanks to Forwyn it is now proved that Humana did not receive any money from the government except for the monies earned for services rendered. So this entire hijacking of my thread is based on yet another liberal lie perpetrated by the liberal members of this forum. CASE CLOSED.
Hot Rod Member	Sat Oct 31 06:51:58
Multi New Member	Sat Oct 31 06:54:49 no answer eh? bye bye lol
Forwyn Member	Sat Oct 31 07:24:20 hey, fuck you asshole
	show deleted posts

Your Name:
Your Password:
Your Message: