Utopia Talk - Politics - Chimps Mourn The Dead

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Chimps Mourn The Dead

Multi
New Member Thu Oct 29 03:06:42
On September 23, 2008, Dorothy, a female chimpanzee in her late 40s, died of congestive heart failure. A maternal and beloved figure, Dorothy had spent eight years at Cameroonâ??s Sanaga-Yong Chimpanzee Rescue Center, which houses and rehabilitates chimps victimized by habitat loss and the illegal African bushmeat trade.

After a hunter killed her mother, Dorothy was sold as a â??mascotâ?? to an amusement park in Cameroon. For the next 25 years she was tethered to the ground by a chain around her neck, taunted, teased, and taught to drink beer and smoke cigarettes for sport. In May 2000 Dorothyâ??obese from poor diet and lack of exerciseâ??was rescued and relocated along with ten other primates. As her health improved, her deep kindness surfaced. She mothered an orphaned chimp named Bouboule and became a close friend to many others, including Jacky, the groupâ??s alpha male, and Nama, another amusement-park refugee.

Szczupider, who had been a volunteer at the center, told me: â??Her presence, and loss, was palpable, and resonated throughout the group. The management at Sanaga-Yong opted to let Dorothy's chimpanzee family witness her burial, so that perhaps they would understand, in their own capacity, that Dorothy would not return. Some chimps displayed aggression while others barked in frustration. But perhaps the most stunning reaction was a recurring, almost tangible silence. If one knows chimpanzees, then one knows that [they] are not [usually] silent creatures."

Check the photo:

Pic #2:
http://ngm...ns-of-earth/visions-earth-2009

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 03:43:28

I saw that the other day. Really cool, I had no idea they were affected by death.

That whole series "VISIONS OF EARTH" has some really stunning photos in it if you are interested in Photographic Art.

Multi
New Member Thu Oct 29 03:55:14

I think we're gonna find that out as time goes by about a whole lot of animals we mistreat and kill.

Multi
New Member Thu Oct 29 03:56:55
probably all higher up animals that are social have feelings like empathy etc, a lot of altruistic behavior is a social mechanism.

Jeddediah Wilkins
Member Thu Oct 29 07:18:33
Wild boards also exhibit strangely sophisticated behavior.

If you try to capture one of their young, the other youth in their group will come back and try to rescue it.

purvis
Member Thu Oct 29 07:21:45
^ Yeah, Im betting thats a lunatic wives tale theory.

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 13:51:31

I don't know about Wild Boars, but I saw a clip of another type animal, I think it was Water Buffalo, where the herd turned on a predator to save a young that was attacked by lions, IIRC.

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 14:12:18

Old Wives Tale?

I don't think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar4v--TVTCI

charper
Member Thu Oct 29 14:15:47

Wtf did that clip have to do with wild boars (non capitalized), sending out search parties to retrieve their kidnapped young?

And how did you miss the title and point of the movie?

CrownRoyal
Member Thu Oct 29 14:16:13
Rod supports Iran? Check out the video title, wtf?

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 14:33:03

Is there nothing you people are incapable of corrupting?

JW, did not say that Wild Boars go have lunch, then form a search party, and go track down a "kidnapped" young.

Just as in the video if a youngster is taken down by a predator they turn immediately and protect the young just like in the video.

That goes beyond stupid even for you charper.

And yes CR, I saw the title, but I do not support Iran.

The actions of the animals supported my previous statement so I used it to prove my statement which it did quite successfully.

BTW, are you and charper one and the same? Or are you just closely related?

CrownRoyal
Member Thu Oct 29 14:45:12
"And yes CR, I saw the title, but I do not support Iran. "

who else posts videos with titles "support Iran"?

charper
Member Thu Oct 29 14:46:22

WAITING for a LINK that if you take a baby boar, the young will come back for her you intellectual slug.

HURRY UP.

charper
Member Thu Oct 29 14:57:18

*CRICKETS* lol

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 15:03:28

charper - WAITING for a LINK that if you take a baby boar, the young will come back for her you intellectual slug.
HURRY UP.

You are talking to the wrong person dunderhead. That was JW that was talking about the boars.

I followed his post with,

HR - I don't know about Wild Boars, but I saw a clip of another type animal, I think it was Water Buffalo, where the herd turned on a predator to save a young that was attacked by lions, IIRC.

I swear, you get stupider withe everypost you make.

And no, *MY POST* "Just as in the video if a youngster is taken down by a predator they turn immediately and protect the young just like in the video."

Was not agreeing with him about wild boars, I was speaking of a generic young. I had mentioned water buffalo in my earlier post and the clip supports that.

Now you answer a question for me.

How did you get so stupid?

charper
Member Thu Oct 29 15:17:46
"Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 14:12:18

Old Wives Tale?

I don't think so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar4v--TVTCI"

WAITING for a LINK that if you take a baby boar, the young will come back for her you intellectual slug.

HURRY UP.

charper
Member Thu Oct 29 15:20:18

I SAID:

HURRY UP

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 15:21:48

HURRY UP,

and kiss my ass.

charper
Member Thu Oct 29 15:26:43

HR caught linkless...again...and again...and again...and again...and... :)

Hot Rod
Member Thu Oct 29 15:52:18

Actually, this is the video I was talking about that I had seen originally.

Battle of Kruger

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

Formerly Fred
Member Thu Oct 29 17:53:45
I love the dead before they're cold,
Their blueing flesh for me to hold.
Cadaver eyes upon me see nothing.
I love the dead before they rise,
No farewells, no goodbyes.
I never even knew your now-rotting face.
While friends and lovers mourn your silly grave.
I have other uses for you, Darling.

I love the dead,
I love the dead,
I love the dead so.
I love the dead,
I love the dead,
I love the dead.
I love the dead,
I love the dead,
I love the dead.
I love the dead,
I love the dead,
I love the dead.
I love the dead,
I love the dead,
I love the dead.

I, I love the dead,
I, I love the dead,
I, I love the dead.

I love the dead before they're cold,
Their blueing flesh for me to hold.
Cadaver eyes upon me see nothing.

http://www...CNHTcVhGe1Evu3N0aJOiyFr4pdGC8g

MurdeR
Member Thu Oct 29 20:25:34

I thought this thread was about Obama @ Dover yesterday. ;o)

CrownRoyal
Member Fri Oct 30 02:10:05
Zing!

Jeddediah Wilkins
Member Fri Oct 30 07:58:33
Even these chimps have compassion for the dead, unlike Muslims which kill Westerners and then dance in the streets and celebrate.

Nekran
Member Fri Oct 30 08:05:19
Says the man who advocates the extermination of over a billion people?

Nice...

Jeddediah Wilkins
Member Fri Oct 30 08:07:18
How many out of that billion people dance in the streets every time an Israeli or an American is killed?

That percentage- the percentage that dance in the streets and celebrate and have a party when Americans die of terrorist attacks- that is the precise number that should be killed.

Hot Rod
Member Fri Oct 30 08:07:21

I think that was his point.

Nekran
Member Fri Oct 30 08:09:08
"How many out of that billion people dance in the streets every time an Israeli or an American is killed?"

Exactly 0.0%

And what you state there is not what you have been advocating in other threads.

Hot Rod
Member Fri Oct 30 08:13:03

I think the ones that should be killed are those that believe that Islam is the one true religion and that all infidels should be exterminated.

Along with the fanatics that believe an insult to the prophet should be punishable by death, or those that murder their family members for leaving Islam.

They are the ones that are a danger to us.

There you are approaching the one billion mark I believe.

Jeddediah Wilkins
Member Fri Oct 30 08:14:48
I advocate the slaughter of this virus.

Islam is not a religion of peace, but a religion of violence, and murder, and rape, by war jihad, and by stealth jihad.

Anyone who declares any Jihad on the USA should be killed without mercy.

They are not men, they are simply overtaken as a virus.

The only Muslim that should be left to live is the Muslim who wants to practice his religion in peace.

All others should be slaughtered by the edge of the sword without mercy, as they plan for the Jew and the Christian.

Nekran
Member Fri Oct 30 08:26:48
So you're saying the exact same thing Islam is. Kill those who persecute us, but leave those who don't alone. Not to mention the Qur'an regularly mentions jews and christians in a positive light as "People of the Book".

Only religious crazies like you, JB, and those that you are currently criticizing (yes you are exactly the same) could be stupid enough not to see how enormously flawed their arguments are.

Personally I would very much like for us to stop pandering to any religion... believe all the stupid crap you want, but don't expect any tax exemptions or for society to accomodate *your* crazy unfounded beliefs. If your kid can't eat pork or whatever, give 'em lunch to take to school and don't go whinging about what they serve. And look nobody has ever been allowed to wear anything on their heads in our schools... so wtf are you whinging about discrimination about? You and your absurd notions were being "positivily discriminated" before.

As for HR, I'm pertty sure you quite overestimate the rate of extremism among muslims. And as a detail I'd like to say that believing in freedom of thought, I don't give a rat's ass if people believe the world would be better if I and other "infidels" were killed, as long as they don't do anything about it. Thoughtcrimes ftl.

Jeddediah Wilkins
Member Fri Oct 30 08:28:38
You are a foolish and ignorant child that will be assimilated by the virus if you don't wake up.

You are not at war with them, but they are at war with you.

Nekran
Member Fri Oct 30 08:34:11
Yes... well I'm confident I'll win without warring them, thank you very much.

You do btw realise that that last line is exactly what extremist muslims tell moderate muslims about the west, yes?

Hot Rod
Member Fri Oct 30 08:34:12

Nekran - Personally I would very much like for us to stop pandering to any religion...

Personally I would rather see *ALL* religions flushed down the toilet where the belong.

And replaced by a philosophy of reason based on the nature of man qua man.

Jeddediah Wilkins
Member Fri Oct 30 08:35:25
Yes, let us crush religion.

It worked for the Soviets.... oh, wait.

Nekran
Member Fri Oct 30 08:35:49
Yes well I'd like that too, but that's not something that could actually rather quickly be enforced. It's an evolution that has to grow among people thesmelves.

While stopping tax exempt statuses and special rules and permissions for religions is something that could virtually happen overnight.

Hot Rod
Member Fri Oct 30 08:37:23

It would be a giant step in the right direction, that's for sure.

Vladimir Putinovich
New Member Fri Oct 30 08:37:44
I agree vith Nekran.

Cloud Strife
Member Fri Oct 30 13:44:09
I think that though religious institutions themselves should not enjoy a tax exempt status, their community building, and charitable work should..

charper
Member Fri Oct 30 14:24:14
"Hot Rod
Member Fri Oct 30 08:13:03

I think the ones that should be killed are those that believe that Islam is the one true religion and that all infidels should be exterminated.

Along with the fanatics that believe an insult to the prophet should be punishable by death, or those that murder their family members for leaving Islam.

They are the ones that are a danger to us.

There you are approaching the one billion mark I believe."

Nice to see HR get all excited and fired up by JB and finally come clean about wanting to exterminate a billion people.

azfalt
Member Fri Oct 30 14:50:08
I got my dick sucked by a chimp once.

Hot Rod
Member Fri Oct 30 15:45:43

Was his name charper?

Adolf Hitler
Member Sun Jul 04 04:01:58
lol...

jergul
Member Sun Jul 04 04:24:38
Elephants and large sea-mammals (whales and dolphins) belong in the mourning groups.

Pigs are sort of similar to man, as are chimps. The large mammals make sense too.

Cats certainly miss individuals. Dogs seem more of a "goodness you are back. I had forgotten about you", but have a pack past and certainly keep track of their young. So probably have a mourning mind too.

jergul
Member Sun Jul 04 04:27:59
Social groups + rituals = mourning

Where each part re-enforces the other.

Chimps mourn when the sense of loss is enforced on them perhaps. Probably the same with dogs. Will miss the owner if he is buried in the yard. Otherwise will tend to forget fast.

The Children
Member Sun Jul 04 04:36:07
No surprises there. Chimps are incredibly intelligent animals. And almost all animals have the ability to feel some kind of emotion.

Paramount
Member Sun Jul 04 04:38:01
"And almost all animals have the ability to feel some kind of emotion."

Except neo-cons and Al-Qaida.

jergul
Member Sun Jul 04 04:42:18
Oh, they can feel emotion all right. Though the qualifier was perhaps "some kind". But then again, even Hitler loved his dog, so perhaps kindness is within reach of even them in the small stuff.

Cloud Strife
Member Sun Jul 04 14:34:43
However animals act has no bearing on how we act.

We are the masters of animals, and as thus can do whatever the hell we want for the betterment of our species.

Adolf Hitler
Member Sun Jul 04 14:40:46
This thread was made 3 months before rods sad passing away on xmas day.

RIP Hot Rod.

Madc0w
Member Tue Dec 28 10:05:34
Why top this?

Nimatzo
Member Tue Dec 28 18:46:39
Ok lets get something clear. The instinct to protect the young and members of the herd, even rescue them is very very very different from mourning a member of the family or herd AFTER they have died.

Many social animals will protect, rescue members of their group, but very few go and "cry" about it once they are dead.

garyd
Member Tue Dec 28 23:16:26
Elephants appear to do just that.

habebe
Member Wed Dec 29 02:24:38
" Ok lets get something clear. The instinct to protect the young and members of the herd, even rescue them is very very very different from mourning a member of the family or herd AFTER they have died.

Many social animals will protect, rescue members of their group, but very few go and "cry" about it once they are dead."

Have you ever seen a show called ape genius?

In it they showed a group of bonobo's who violently defended the dead body of another bonobo, who mind you was of no relation to them.

It did also show Chimps mourning the loss of others.

Here is a link.

http://vid...ay?docid=-3830684889540805606#

Nimatzo
Member Wed Dec 29 07:55:19
I never said they were mutually exclusive. I said there is a huge difference between the two. Water buffalos protecting their young is not the same thing as chimps mourning their dead. People have brought up wrong examples all over this thread.

garyd
Member Thu Dec 30 21:08:08
Generally speaking the more intellectually capable the animal the more likely it is to morn the loss of the members of it's group.

Milton Bradley
Member Mon Jan 03 08:47:27
Yes, the more intelligent animals are, the more they are likely to have capacity to model empathy for others experiences and social consciences. The dumber they are, the more they dont have the capacity to model experiences outside their own heads and thus will not mourn the loss of social members.

garyd
Member Mon Jan 03 17:45:19
Which goes a long way to explain your post in this place.

milton bradley
Member Mon Jan 03 17:50:02
It does indeed, thankfully. Sadly, it also displays your greedy, selfish, anti-social behavior that belongs in the less intelligent species' behavior-pattern.

show deleted posts

Multi New Member	Thu Oct 29 03:06:42 On September 23, 2008, Dorothy, a female chimpanzee in her late 40s, died of congestive heart failure. A maternal and beloved figure, Dorothy had spent eight years at Cameroonâ??s Sanaga-Yong Chimpanzee Rescue Center, which houses and rehabilitates chimps victimized by habitat loss and the illegal African bushmeat trade. After a hunter killed her mother, Dorothy was sold as a â??mascotâ?? to an amusement park in Cameroon. For the next 25 years she was tethered to the ground by a chain around her neck, taunted, teased, and taught to drink beer and smoke cigarettes for sport. In May 2000 Dorothyâ??obese from poor diet and lack of exerciseâ??was rescued and relocated along with ten other primates. As her health improved, her deep kindness surfaced. She mothered an orphaned chimp named Bouboule and became a close friend to many others, including Jacky, the groupâ??s alpha male, and Nama, another amusement-park refugee. Szczupider, who had been a volunteer at the center, told me: â??Her presence, and loss, was palpable, and resonated throughout the group. The management at Sanaga-Yong opted to let Dorothy's chimpanzee family witness her burial, so that perhaps they would understand, in their own capacity, that Dorothy would not return. Some chimps displayed aggression while others barked in frustration. But perhaps the most stunning reaction was a recurring, almost tangible silence. If one knows chimpanzees, then one knows that [they] are not [usually] silent creatures." Check the photo: Pic #2: http://ngm...ns-of-earth/visions-earth-2009
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 03:43:28 I saw that the other day. Really cool, I had no idea they were affected by death. That whole series "VISIONS OF EARTH" has some really stunning photos in it if you are interested in Photographic Art.
Multi New Member	Thu Oct 29 03:55:14 I think we're gonna find that out as time goes by about a whole lot of animals we mistreat and kill.
Multi New Member	Thu Oct 29 03:56:55 probably all higher up animals that are social have feelings like empathy etc, a lot of altruistic behavior is a social mechanism.
Jeddediah Wilkins Member	Thu Oct 29 07:18:33 Wild boards also exhibit strangely sophisticated behavior. If you try to capture one of their young, the other youth in their group will come back and try to rescue it.
purvis Member	Thu Oct 29 07:21:45 ^ Yeah, Im betting thats a lunatic wives tale theory.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 13:51:31 I don't know about Wild Boars, but I saw a clip of another type animal, I think it was Water Buffalo, where the herd turned on a predator to save a young that was attacked by lions, IIRC.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 14:12:18 Old Wives Tale? I don't think so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar4v--TVTCI
charper Member	Thu Oct 29 14:15:47 Wtf did that clip have to do with wild boars (non capitalized), sending out search parties to retrieve their kidnapped young? And how did you miss the title and point of the movie?
CrownRoyal Member	Thu Oct 29 14:16:13 Rod supports Iran? Check out the video title, wtf?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 14:33:03 Is there nothing you people are incapable of corrupting? JW, did not say that Wild Boars go have lunch, then form a search party, and go track down a "kidnapped" young. Just as in the video if a youngster is taken down by a predator they turn immediately and protect the young just like in the video. That goes beyond stupid even for you charper. And yes CR, I saw the title, but I do not support Iran. The actions of the animals supported my previous statement so I used it to prove my statement which it did quite successfully. BTW, are you and charper one and the same? Or are you just closely related?
CrownRoyal Member	Thu Oct 29 14:45:12 "And yes CR, I saw the title, but I do not support Iran. " who else posts videos with titles "support Iran"?
charper Member	Thu Oct 29 14:46:22 WAITING for a LINK that if you take a baby boar, the young will come back for her you intellectual slug. HURRY UP.
charper Member	Thu Oct 29 14:57:18 CRICKETS lol
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 15:03:28 charper - WAITING for a LINK that if you take a baby boar, the young will come back for her you intellectual slug. HURRY UP. You are talking to the wrong person dunderhead. That was JW that was talking about the boars. I followed his post with, HR - I don't know about Wild Boars, but I saw a clip of another type animal, I think it was Water Buffalo, where the herd turned on a predator to save a young that was attacked by lions, IIRC. I swear, you get stupider withe everypost you make. And no, MY POST "Just as in the video if a youngster is taken down by a predator they turn immediately and protect the young just like in the video." Was not agreeing with him about wild boars, I was speaking of a generic young. I had mentioned water buffalo in my earlier post and the clip supports that. Now you answer a question for me. How did you get so stupid?
charper Member	Thu Oct 29 15:17:46 "Hot Rod Member Thu Oct 29 14:12:18 Old Wives Tale? I don't think so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar4v--TVTCI" WAITING for a LINK that if you take a baby boar, the young will come back for her you intellectual slug. HURRY UP.
charper Member	Thu Oct 29 15:20:18 I SAID: HURRY UP
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 15:21:48 HURRY UP, and kiss my ass.
charper Member	Thu Oct 29 15:26:43 HR caught linkless...again...and again...and again...and again...and... :)
Hot Rod Member	Thu Oct 29 15:52:18 Actually, this is the video I was talking about that I had seen originally. Battle of Kruger http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Formerly Fred Member	Thu Oct 29 17:53:45 I love the dead before they're cold, Their blueing flesh for me to hold. Cadaver eyes upon me see nothing. I love the dead before they rise, No farewells, no goodbyes. I never even knew your now-rotting face. While friends and lovers mourn your silly grave. I have other uses for you, Darling. I love the dead, I love the dead, I love the dead so. I love the dead, I love the dead, I love the dead. I love the dead, I love the dead, I love the dead. I love the dead, I love the dead, I love the dead. I love the dead, I love the dead, I love the dead. I, I love the dead, I, I love the dead, I, I love the dead. I love the dead before they're cold, Their blueing flesh for me to hold. Cadaver eyes upon me see nothing. http://www...CNHTcVhGe1Evu3N0aJOiyFr4pdGC8g
MurdeR Member	Thu Oct 29 20:25:34 I thought this thread was about Obama @ Dover yesterday. ;o)
CrownRoyal Member	Fri Oct 30 02:10:05 Zing!
Jeddediah Wilkins Member	Fri Oct 30 07:58:33 Even these chimps have compassion for the dead, unlike Muslims which kill Westerners and then dance in the streets and celebrate.
Nekran Member	Fri Oct 30 08:05:19 Says the man who advocates the extermination of over a billion people? Nice...
Jeddediah Wilkins Member	Fri Oct 30 08:07:18 How many out of that billion people dance in the streets every time an Israeli or an American is killed? That percentage- the percentage that dance in the streets and celebrate and have a party when Americans die of terrorist attacks- that is the precise number that should be killed.
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 08:07:21 I think that was his point.
Nekran Member	Fri Oct 30 08:09:08 "How many out of that billion people dance in the streets every time an Israeli or an American is killed?" Exactly 0.0% And what you state there is not what you have been advocating in other threads.
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 08:13:03 I think the ones that should be killed are those that believe that Islam is the one true religion and that all infidels should be exterminated. Along with the fanatics that believe an insult to the prophet should be punishable by death, or those that murder their family members for leaving Islam. They are the ones that are a danger to us. There you are approaching the one billion mark I believe.
Jeddediah Wilkins Member	Fri Oct 30 08:14:48 I advocate the slaughter of this virus. Islam is not a religion of peace, but a religion of violence, and murder, and rape, by war jihad, and by stealth jihad. Anyone who declares any Jihad on the USA should be killed without mercy. They are not men, they are simply overtaken as a virus. The only Muslim that should be left to live is the Muslim who wants to practice his religion in peace. All others should be slaughtered by the edge of the sword without mercy, as they plan for the Jew and the Christian.
Nekran Member	Fri Oct 30 08:26:48 So you're saying the exact same thing Islam is. Kill those who persecute us, but leave those who don't alone. Not to mention the Qur'an regularly mentions jews and christians in a positive light as "People of the Book". Only religious crazies like you, JB, and those that you are currently criticizing (yes you are exactly the same) could be stupid enough not to see how enormously flawed their arguments are. Personally I would very much like for us to stop pandering to any religion... believe all the stupid crap you want, but don't expect any tax exemptions or for society to accomodate your crazy unfounded beliefs. If your kid can't eat pork or whatever, give 'em lunch to take to school and don't go whinging about what they serve. And look nobody has ever been allowed to wear anything on their heads in our schools... so wtf are you whinging about discrimination about? You and your absurd notions were being "positivily discriminated" before. As for HR, I'm pertty sure you quite overestimate the rate of extremism among muslims. And as a detail I'd like to say that believing in freedom of thought, I don't give a rat's ass if people believe the world would be better if I and other "infidels" were killed, as long as they don't do anything about it. Thoughtcrimes ftl.
Jeddediah Wilkins Member	Fri Oct 30 08:28:38 You are a foolish and ignorant child that will be assimilated by the virus if you don't wake up. You are not at war with them, but they are at war with you.
Nekran Member	Fri Oct 30 08:34:11 Yes... well I'm confident I'll win without warring them, thank you very much. You do btw realise that that last line is exactly what extremist muslims tell moderate muslims about the west, yes?
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 08:34:12 Nekran - Personally I would very much like for us to stop pandering to any religion... Personally I would rather see ALL religions flushed down the toilet where the belong. And replaced by a philosophy of reason based on the nature of man qua man.
Jeddediah Wilkins Member	Fri Oct 30 08:35:25 Yes, let us crush religion. It worked for the Soviets.... oh, wait.
Nekran Member	Fri Oct 30 08:35:49 Yes well I'd like that too, but that's not something that could actually rather quickly be enforced. It's an evolution that has to grow among people thesmelves. While stopping tax exempt statuses and special rules and permissions for religions is something that could virtually happen overnight.
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 08:37:23 It would be a giant step in the right direction, that's for sure.
Vladimir Putinovich New Member	Fri Oct 30 08:37:44 I agree vith Nekran.
Cloud Strife Member	Fri Oct 30 13:44:09 I think that though religious institutions themselves should not enjoy a tax exempt status, their community building, and charitable work should..
charper Member	Fri Oct 30 14:24:14 "Hot Rod Member Fri Oct 30 08:13:03 I think the ones that should be killed are those that believe that Islam is the one true religion and that all infidels should be exterminated. Along with the fanatics that believe an insult to the prophet should be punishable by death, or those that murder their family members for leaving Islam. They are the ones that are a danger to us. There you are approaching the one billion mark I believe." Nice to see HR get all excited and fired up by JB and finally come clean about wanting to exterminate a billion people.
azfalt Member	Fri Oct 30 14:50:08 I got my dick sucked by a chimp once.
Hot Rod Member	Fri Oct 30 15:45:43 Was his name charper?
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Jul 04 04:01:58 lol...
jergul Member	Sun Jul 04 04:24:38 Elephants and large sea-mammals (whales and dolphins) belong in the mourning groups. Pigs are sort of similar to man, as are chimps. The large mammals make sense too. Cats certainly miss individuals. Dogs seem more of a "goodness you are back. I had forgotten about you", but have a pack past and certainly keep track of their young. So probably have a mourning mind too.
jergul Member	Sun Jul 04 04:27:59 Social groups + rituals = mourning Where each part re-enforces the other. Chimps mourn when the sense of loss is enforced on them perhaps. Probably the same with dogs. Will miss the owner if he is buried in the yard. Otherwise will tend to forget fast.
The Children Member	Sun Jul 04 04:36:07 No surprises there. Chimps are incredibly intelligent animals. And almost all animals have the ability to feel some kind of emotion.
Paramount Member	Sun Jul 04 04:38:01 "And almost all animals have the ability to feel some kind of emotion." Except neo-cons and Al-Qaida.
jergul Member	Sun Jul 04 04:42:18 Oh, they can feel emotion all right. Though the qualifier was perhaps "some kind". But then again, even Hitler loved his dog, so perhaps kindness is within reach of even them in the small stuff.
Cloud Strife Member	Sun Jul 04 14:34:43 However animals act has no bearing on how we act. We are the masters of animals, and as thus can do whatever the hell we want for the betterment of our species.
Adolf Hitler Member	Sun Jul 04 14:40:46 This thread was made 3 months before rods sad passing away on xmas day. RIP Hot Rod.
Madc0w Member	Tue Dec 28 10:05:34 Why top this?
Nimatzo Member	Tue Dec 28 18:46:39 Ok lets get something clear. The instinct to protect the young and members of the herd, even rescue them is very very very different from mourning a member of the family or herd AFTER they have died. Many social animals will protect, rescue members of their group, but very few go and "cry" about it once they are dead.
garyd Member	Tue Dec 28 23:16:26 Elephants appear to do just that.
habebe Member	Wed Dec 29 02:24:38 " Ok lets get something clear. The instinct to protect the young and members of the herd, even rescue them is very very very different from mourning a member of the family or herd AFTER they have died. Many social animals will protect, rescue members of their group, but very few go and "cry" about it once they are dead." Have you ever seen a show called ape genius? In it they showed a group of bonobo's who violently defended the dead body of another bonobo, who mind you was of no relation to them. It did also show Chimps mourning the loss of others. Here is a link. http://vid...ay?docid=-3830684889540805606#
Nimatzo Member	Wed Dec 29 07:55:19 I never said they were mutually exclusive. I said there is a huge difference between the two. Water buffalos protecting their young is not the same thing as chimps mourning their dead. People have brought up wrong examples all over this thread.
garyd Member	Thu Dec 30 21:08:08 Generally speaking the more intellectually capable the animal the more likely it is to morn the loss of the members of it's group.
Milton Bradley Member	Mon Jan 03 08:47:27 Yes, the more intelligent animals are, the more they are likely to have capacity to model empathy for others experiences and social consciences. The dumber they are, the more they dont have the capacity to model experiences outside their own heads and thus will not mourn the loss of social members.
garyd Member	Mon Jan 03 17:45:19 Which goes a long way to explain your post in this place.
milton bradley Member	Mon Jan 03 17:50:02 It does indeed, thankfully. Sadly, it also displays your greedy, selfish, anti-social behavior that belongs in the less intelligent species' behavior-pattern.
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