Utopia Talk - Politics - (OT) Vaccines for Kindergarden

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Utopia Talk / Politics / (OT) Vaccines for Kindergarden

Stream of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 01:54:35
My son is going to be entering kindergarden next year and I have been told that he would need to get several vaccines in order to be given admission. They said some hep B, polio, chickenpox and a few other things. I know that these vaccines are required for entry into public schools but does anyone know if they are required for private schools as well? Also are there any legal issues I could get into if I home school in order to avoid vaccination altogether?

freaky boy
Member Wed Sep 30 02:38:04
oh give me a break, just give the kid the jab, and set him lose in the real world.

I dont think you can protect him from reality and disease forever.

saiko
Member Wed Sep 30 02:55:14
You can ask your doctor if there are any schools around that have higher incidence of infectious diseases. Those are the ones that don't require vaccines (or don't care).

These schools have the added advantage that you can plan fun stuff with your son's college funds.

nhill
Member Wed Sep 30 02:56:43
freaky boy/saiko are easily trolled

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 05:16:22
"I know that these vaccines are required for entry into public schools"

No, they definitely are not. There's a bunch of idiots that will try to tell you that (some of them even work in the public school system), but the bottom line NO, shots are definitely not required for entry into publics school. This has been well established long ago. Such a requirement would be completely illegal (not to mention unethical). That's why every state has a very very simple waiver form that you just basically sign and turn in and you're done, the end - kid starts school with the other kids.

Stream of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 05:35:30
Wow that is great. I really had no idea that this existed. I will look into it, thanks.

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 05:44:03

Those vaccines have been around for decades and have been proven safe and effective.

Why don't you want your kid inoculated?

Do you have a large insurance policy on him?

ehcks
Member Wed Sep 30 07:45:15
Umm, Rob? For every school I went to, a paper from the doctor signing off each vaccine was required for me to attend.

Hrothgar
Member Wed Sep 30 07:48:29
The biggest issue with skipping vaccines is the potential for your kid to f'ing die of some completely preventable disease.

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 08:22:54
"Umm, Rob? For every school I went to, a paper from the doctor signing off each vaccine was required for me to attend."

That is incorrect. If that's what you were told you were lied to and you were lied to illegally (and that DOES happen all the time) because, by law, they HAVE to provide you with a waiver option and I think in some states they are even required by law to keep the waiver forms in the actual schools.

"The biggest issue with skipping vaccines is the potential for your kid to f'ing die of some completely preventable disease."

It's called an immune system.

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 08:26:12
School vaccination laws and waiver forms for each state:

http://www.unhinderedliving.com/statevaccexemp.html

Example:
http://www.vaclib.org/pdf/co2.pdf

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 08:27:29
Sometimes the waiver is ON the immunization form itself. Maybe most states combine the two now, I don't know. I do know there has to be waiver and there IS a wavier, as you can see in the links above.

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 08:35:27
"and have been proven safe and effective."

No, they have not.... unless you're talking about JUNK science. There's little if ANY real, unrigged, unbiased scienctific studies proving the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129#

"No batch of vaccine can be proved safe before it is given to children." Surgeon General of the United States

"The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used" Dr. James A. Shannon, National Institutes of Health

"There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good." Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin.)

Nekran
Member Wed Sep 30 08:39:45
"It's called an immune system."

Yes... and vacinnes make use of it in a pretty clever way. But hey, suit yourself...

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 08:50:41

RoB, when was the last case of Polio reported?

Eikeys Ghost
Sports Mod Wed Sep 30 10:35:18
in the US, 1992.

In the world, This year.

Formerly Fred
Member Wed Sep 30 11:08:07
lol

ouch

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 12:16:03
Uh, no. Try 2009. About 1000 cases so far this year.

Call a fucking ambulance.

roland
Member Wed Sep 30 12:22:03
link?

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 12:32:39
http://www.polioeradication.org/casecount.asp

And some of it is caused by..... guess what? ..... THE POLIO VACCINE.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/14/health/main5242168.shtml?tag=pop

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 12:36:40
http://www...eases/2006/08/060815160951.htm

roland
Member Wed Sep 30 12:39:29
"Uh, no. Try 2009. About 1000 cases so far this year. "

The data is from Africa and the sub continent, not the US. So, there is no contradiction here.

"And some of it is caused by..... guess what? ..... THE POLIO VACCINE. "

Quote from your article:

The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio.

Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities. But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given.

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 12:39:30
God damn that must hurt like fuck, Hot Rod.

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 12:48:49

I was referring to The United States when I asked my last question, the answer to which is pretty much as I expected.

"INTRODUCTION

As a result of the introduction of inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) in the 1950s, followed by oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) in the 1960s, poliomyelitis control has been achieved in numerous countries worldwide, including the entire Western Hemisphere (1,2). In the United States, the last indigenously acquired cases of polio caused by wild poliovirus were detected in 1979 (3). In 1985, the countries of the Americas* established a goal of regional elimination of wild poliovirus by 1990 (4). In 1988, the World Health Assembly (WHA), which is the directing council of the World Health Organization (WHO), adopted the goal of global polio eradication by the end of 2000 (5). In the Americas, the last case of polio associated with isolation of wild poliovirus was detected in Peru in 1991 (6). The Western Hemisphere was certified as free from indigenous wild poliovirus in 1994, an accomplishment achieved by the exclusive use of OPV (7). The global polio eradication initiative has reduced the number of reported polio cases worldwide by >80% since the mid-1980s, and worldwide eradication of the disease by the end of 2000 or soon after appears feasible (8)."

FULL REPORT:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr4905a1.htm

If you want to look at the other side of the world for 2008 and YTD 2009 you have this.

http://www.polioeradication.org/casecount.asp

Now how many of those countries have universal vaccinations?

River of blood
Member Wed Sep 30 12:55:19
'The data is from Africa and the sub continent, not the US. So, there is no contradiction here."

He didn't ask me what the latest case is in the US you fucking idiot.

"The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio.

Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities. But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given."

Sooooo..... you're supporting my argument that vaccines can be harmful? Welcome to my side.

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 12:59:33

"The Western Hemisphere was certified as free from indigenous wild poliovirus in 1994, an accomplishment achieved by the exclusive use of OPV..."

My point is where the vaccine is universally used it is effective.

It's use has totally eradicated it in the hemisphere.

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 13:03:23

Surely you are not saying that each and everyone of the nearly six billion people on the other side of the world are vaccinated are you?

I'd like to see a link to that if you got one in your shirt pocket.

roland
Member Wed Sep 30 13:04:58
"Sooooo..... you're supporting my argument that vaccines can be harmful? Welcome to my side. "

All drugs could have some side effects, and the risk of course should be promptly recognised. However, you have millions of people at risk with the disease, but you have about 100 dying from this batch of vaccine in total. The risk of dying from the diseases is considerably much higher than the risk dying from the vaccine. And if these countries have the vaccine we are using, then the risk is even lower. Thus, the risk is quiet acceptable.

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 13:06:55

Not quite acceptable.

I would love to see it eradicated worldwide just like Small Pox was.

roland
Member Wed Sep 30 13:09:25
Context is your friend.

I am talking about the risk of using the vaccine is acceptable.

Hot Rod
Member Wed Sep 30 13:18:34

I know what you said.

I was just clarifying it for you so everyone else would know what you meant.

Surely you are not OK with some people dying when the disease could be eradicated someday?

show deleted posts

Stream of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 01:54:35 My son is going to be entering kindergarden next year and I have been told that he would need to get several vaccines in order to be given admission. They said some hep B, polio, chickenpox and a few other things. I know that these vaccines are required for entry into public schools but does anyone know if they are required for private schools as well? Also are there any legal issues I could get into if I home school in order to avoid vaccination altogether?
freaky boy Member	Wed Sep 30 02:38:04 oh give me a break, just give the kid the jab, and set him lose in the real world. I dont think you can protect him from reality and disease forever.
saiko Member	Wed Sep 30 02:55:14 You can ask your doctor if there are any schools around that have higher incidence of infectious diseases. Those are the ones that don't require vaccines (or don't care). These schools have the added advantage that you can plan fun stuff with your son's college funds.
nhill Member	Wed Sep 30 02:56:43 freaky boy/saiko are easily trolled
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 05:16:22 "I know that these vaccines are required for entry into public schools" No, they definitely are not. There's a bunch of idiots that will try to tell you that (some of them even work in the public school system), but the bottom line NO, shots are definitely not required for entry into publics school. This has been well established long ago. Such a requirement would be completely illegal (not to mention unethical). That's why every state has a very very simple waiver form that you just basically sign and turn in and you're done, the end - kid starts school with the other kids.
Stream of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 05:35:30 Wow that is great. I really had no idea that this existed. I will look into it, thanks.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 05:44:03 Those vaccines have been around for decades and have been proven safe and effective. Why don't you want your kid inoculated? Do you have a large insurance policy on him?
ehcks Member	Wed Sep 30 07:45:15 Umm, Rob? For every school I went to, a paper from the doctor signing off each vaccine was required for me to attend.
Hrothgar Member	Wed Sep 30 07:48:29 The biggest issue with skipping vaccines is the potential for your kid to f'ing die of some completely preventable disease.
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 08:22:54 "Umm, Rob? For every school I went to, a paper from the doctor signing off each vaccine was required for me to attend." That is incorrect. If that's what you were told you were lied to and you were lied to illegally (and that DOES happen all the time) because, by law, they HAVE to provide you with a waiver option and I think in some states they are even required by law to keep the waiver forms in the actual schools. "The biggest issue with skipping vaccines is the potential for your kid to f'ing die of some completely preventable disease." It's called an immune system.
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 08:26:12 School vaccination laws and waiver forms for each state: http://www.unhinderedliving.com/statevaccexemp.html Example: http://www.vaclib.org/pdf/co2.pdf
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 08:27:29 Sometimes the waiver is ON the immunization form itself. Maybe most states combine the two now, I don't know. I do know there has to be waiver and there IS a wavier, as you can see in the links above.
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 08:35:27 "and have been proven safe and effective." No, they have not.... unless you're talking about JUNK science. There's little if ANY real, unrigged, unbiased scienctific studies proving the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6531447125053615129# "No batch of vaccine can be proved safe before it is given to children." Surgeon General of the United States "The only safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used" Dr. James A. Shannon, National Institutes of Health "There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunisation of children does more harm than good." Dr. J. Anthony Morris (formerly Chief Vaccine Control Officer at the US Federal Drug Admin.)
Nekran Member	Wed Sep 30 08:39:45 "It's called an immune system." Yes... and vacinnes make use of it in a pretty clever way. But hey, suit yourself...
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 08:50:41 RoB, when was the last case of Polio reported?
Eikeys Ghost Sports Mod	Wed Sep 30 10:35:18 in the US, 1992. In the world, This year.
Formerly Fred Member	Wed Sep 30 11:08:07 lol ouch
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 12:16:03 Uh, no. Try 2009. About 1000 cases so far this year. Call a fucking ambulance.
roland Member	Wed Sep 30 12:22:03 link?
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 12:32:39 http://www.polioeradication.org/casecount.asp And some of it is caused by..... guess what? ..... THE POLIO VACCINE. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/14/health/main5242168.shtml?tag=pop
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 12:36:40 http://www...eases/2006/08/060815160951.htm
roland Member	Wed Sep 30 12:39:29 "Uh, no. Try 2009. About 1000 cases so far this year. " The data is from Africa and the sub continent, not the US. So, there is no contradiction here. "And some of it is caused by..... guess what? ..... THE POLIO VACCINE. " Quote from your article: The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio. Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities. But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given.
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 12:39:30 God damn that must hurt like fuck, Hot Rod.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 12:48:49 I was referring to The United States when I asked my last question, the answer to which is pretty much as I expected. "INTRODUCTION As a result of the introduction of inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) in the 1950s, followed by oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV) in the 1960s, poliomyelitis control has been achieved in numerous countries worldwide, including the entire Western Hemisphere (1,2). In the United States, the last indigenously acquired cases of polio caused by wild poliovirus were detected in 1979 (3). In 1985, the countries of the Americas* established a goal of regional elimination of wild poliovirus by 1990 (4). In 1988, the World Health Assembly (WHA), which is the directing council of the World Health Organization (WHO), adopted the goal of global polio eradication by the end of 2000 (5). In the Americas, the last case of polio associated with isolation of wild poliovirus was detected in Peru in 1991 (6). The Western Hemisphere was certified as free from indigenous wild poliovirus in 1994, an accomplishment achieved by the exclusive use of OPV (7). The global polio eradication initiative has reduced the number of reported polio cases worldwide by >80% since the mid-1980s, and worldwide eradication of the disease by the end of 2000 or soon after appears feasible (8)." FULL REPORT: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr4905a1.htm If you want to look at the other side of the world for 2008 and YTD 2009 you have this. http://www.polioeradication.org/casecount.asp Now how many of those countries have universal vaccinations?
River of blood Member	Wed Sep 30 12:55:19 'The data is from Africa and the sub continent, not the US. So, there is no contradiction here." He didn't ask me what the latest case is in the US you fucking idiot. "The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio. Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities. But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given." Sooooo..... you're supporting my argument that vaccines can be harmful? Welcome to my side.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 12:59:33 "The Western Hemisphere was certified as free from indigenous wild poliovirus in 1994, an accomplishment achieved by the exclusive use of OPV..." My point is where the vaccine is universally used it is effective. It's use has totally eradicated it in the hemisphere.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 13:03:23 Surely you are not saying that each and everyone of the nearly six billion people on the other side of the world are vaccinated are you? I'd like to see a link to that if you got one in your shirt pocket.
roland Member	Wed Sep 30 13:04:58 "Sooooo..... you're supporting my argument that vaccines can be harmful? Welcome to my side. " All drugs could have some side effects, and the risk of course should be promptly recognised. However, you have millions of people at risk with the disease, but you have about 100 dying from this batch of vaccine in total. The risk of dying from the diseases is considerably much higher than the risk dying from the vaccine. And if these countries have the vaccine we are using, then the risk is even lower. Thus, the risk is quiet acceptable.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 13:06:55 Not quite acceptable. I would love to see it eradicated worldwide just like Small Pox was.
roland Member	Wed Sep 30 13:09:25 Context is your friend. I am talking about the risk of using the vaccine is acceptable.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Sep 30 13:18:34 I know what you said. I was just clarifying it for you so everyone else would know what you meant. Surely you are not OK with some people dying when the disease could be eradicated someday?
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