Utopia Talk - Politics - Liberal rags saying waterboarding tortur

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Utopia Talk / Politics / Liberal rags saying waterboarding tortur

Rugian
Member Mon Sep 07 14:56:01
I am SICK and TIRED of these stupid liberals using sensationalist terms to turn people against the things we NEED to use to protect America. Goddamn.

"Following World War II, when U.S. military tribunals tried Japanese military officials for war crimes for torturing prisoners of war, graphic accounts surfaced about the practice called â??the water treatment,â?? which, as federal judge and laws of war scholar Evan Wallach observed (Columbia Journal of Transnational Law, 2007), â??differ[ed] very littleâ?? from the â??descriptions of waterboarding as it is currently applied.â?? One of the common practices of the Japanese military was described as follows in the Judgment of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East: â??The victim was tied or held down on his back and cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth.â??

This practice, first defined in the New York Times (7/27/42) as â??forced drownings,â?? was referred to by the Washington Post (10/7/46) as â??water tortureâ?? and by the New York Times (9/6/45) as â??the Oriental â??water torture.â??â?? Other newspaper accounts (New York Times, 8/16/42, 8/31/42, 12/25/45, 7/26/47; Washington Post, 9/6/42; Chicago Tribune, 6/9/46) unequivocally defined the â??water treatmentâ?? as a form of torture. Meanwhile, reports of the use of identical practices against American POWs in the Korean War were covered in the New York Times (8/9/53) as â??stories of planned and deliberate torture.â??

Over a decade later, â??water tortureâ?? was mentioned in the headline of a Washington Post article (3/15/68) about the Australian armyâ??s admission that a soldier had administered the â??water treatmentâ?? to a Vietnamese woman suspected of being a guerilla. Six months later, the Post (8/12/68) published a front-page photographic expose of U.S. soldiers administering this same â??water treatmentâ?? to a Vietnamese prisoner. A follow-up report in the Post (10/29/70) referred to this practice, which resulted in charges against the commander of the U.S. Army troops in South Vietnam, as â??an ancient Oriental torture called â??the water treatment.â??â??

Media reports commonly used the term â??water tortureâ?? to describe the Cambodian Khmer Rougeâ??s practice of tying prisoners to a board and pouring water over their noses and mouths. In a feature article about the late Cambodian artist Vann Nath, who painted pictures of the Pol Pot regimeâ??s various torture devices (including perhaps the clearest visual precursor of todayâ??s â??water boardâ??), the L.A. Times (8/8/97) described the artistâ??s â??contributions to history as a witness to the systematic torture and execution of Pol Potâ??s victims. He painted images of acts he witnessed or heard described while in prison: electric shock treatment, water torture.â?? The San Diego Union-Tribune (12/16/89) also referred to the Khmer Rougeâ??s methods of interrogating through â??water torture.â??

In 1983, media reports on the trial of a Texas sheriff who had used a technique remarkably similar to todayâ??s â??waterboardingâ?? also used the term â??water tortureâ?? (UPI, 8/31/83, 9/1/83, 9/7/83). One article published in the New York Times (9/2/83) about the case began, â??Two convicted burglars testified today that they had watched in fear as a former East Texas sheriff and his deputies used a water torture.â?? In another New York Times article (9/1/83), the news that â??another former deputy testified that they had handcuffed prisoners to chairs, placed towels over their faces and poured water on the cloth until the prisoners gave what the officers considered confessionsâ?? was summarized with the headline: â??Ex-Deputy Tells Jury of Jail Water Torture.â??

Media also referred to the practice as torture when it was used by the U.S. to train intelligence agents and military personnel who were at risk of being captured by enemy forces. In a column tracing the origins of the word â??waterboarding,â?? New York Times columnist William Safire (3/9/08) noted that a 1976 article had referred to U.S. Navy trainees being

strapped down and water poured into their mouths and noses until they lost consciousness. . . . A Navy spokesman admitted use of the â??water boardâ?? torture . . . to â??convince each trainee that he wonâ??t be able to physically resist what an enemy would do to him.â??"

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3404

roland
Member Mon Sep 07 19:43:32
"I am SICK and TIRED of these stupid liberals using sensationalist terms to turn people against the things we NEED to use to protect America. Goddamn. "

It is against the law, it has not shown to be effective.

Canadian
Member Mon Sep 07 21:05:38
Torture is not a reliable source of information, as people will say anything to get out of it.

It's fun if you're a sadist though, I suppose.

State Department
Member Mon Sep 07 21:30:37
"Torture is not a reliable source of information, as people will say anything to get out of it."

That's why you warn them that you'll guide them and/or someone close to them into a wood chipper 1 inch at a time if their intel turns out to be shit.

MrPresident07
Member Mon Sep 07 22:38:06
This argument is tired and worn out. You cannot compare a formal military to a terrorist organization.

roland
Member Mon Sep 07 22:41:57
What argument?

Canadian
Member Mon Sep 07 23:58:21
"That's why you warn them that you'll guide them...into a wood chipper 1 inch at a time if their intel turns out to be shit."

- And that refutes my point how? Physical torture is still torture, and bub will still say anything to stop you from feeding him into a wood chipper once you start.

"That's why you warn them that you'll guide...someone close to them into a wood chipper 1 inch at a time if their intel turns out to be shit."

- They have to care about those close to them for this to matter. If they're fanatical about a cause, that cause comes before all else, even loved ones, threats are useless.

State Department
Member Tue Sep 08 02:02:34
You haven't seen the wood chipper that my town has been using to mulchify the branches they cut down around the power lines.

show deleted posts

Rugian Member	Mon Sep 07 14:56:01 I am SICK and TIRED of these stupid liberals using sensationalist terms to turn people against the things we NEED to use to protect America. Goddamn. "Following World War II, when U.S. military tribunals tried Japanese military officials for war crimes for torturing prisoners of war, graphic accounts surfaced about the practice called â??the water treatment,â?? which, as federal judge and laws of war scholar Evan Wallach observed (Columbia Journal of Transnational Law, 2007), â??differ[ed] very littleâ?? from the â??descriptions of waterboarding as it is currently applied.â?? One of the common practices of the Japanese military was described as follows in the Judgment of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East: â??The victim was tied or held down on his back and cloth placed over his nose and mouth. Water was then poured on the cloth.â?? This practice, first defined in the New York Times (7/27/42) as â??forced drownings,â?? was referred to by the Washington Post (10/7/46) as â??water tortureâ?? and by the New York Times (9/6/45) as â??the Oriental â??water torture.â??â?? Other newspaper accounts (New York Times, 8/16/42, 8/31/42, 12/25/45, 7/26/47; Washington Post, 9/6/42; Chicago Tribune, 6/9/46) unequivocally defined the â??water treatmentâ?? as a form of torture. Meanwhile, reports of the use of identical practices against American POWs in the Korean War were covered in the New York Times (8/9/53) as â??stories of planned and deliberate torture.â?? Over a decade later, â??water tortureâ?? was mentioned in the headline of a Washington Post article (3/15/68) about the Australian armyâ??s admission that a soldier had administered the â??water treatmentâ?? to a Vietnamese woman suspected of being a guerilla. Six months later, the Post (8/12/68) published a front-page photographic expose of U.S. soldiers administering this same â??water treatmentâ?? to a Vietnamese prisoner. A follow-up report in the Post (10/29/70) referred to this practice, which resulted in charges against the commander of the U.S. Army troops in South Vietnam, as â??an ancient Oriental torture called â??the water treatment.â??â?? Media reports commonly used the term â??water tortureâ?? to describe the Cambodian Khmer Rougeâ??s practice of tying prisoners to a board and pouring water over their noses and mouths. In a feature article about the late Cambodian artist Vann Nath, who painted pictures of the Pol Pot regimeâ??s various torture devices (including perhaps the clearest visual precursor of todayâ??s â??water boardâ??), the L.A. Times (8/8/97) described the artistâ??s â??contributions to history as a witness to the systematic torture and execution of Pol Potâ??s victims. He painted images of acts he witnessed or heard described while in prison: electric shock treatment, water torture.â?? The San Diego Union-Tribune (12/16/89) also referred to the Khmer Rougeâ??s methods of interrogating through â??water torture.â?? In 1983, media reports on the trial of a Texas sheriff who had used a technique remarkably similar to todayâ??s â??waterboardingâ?? also used the term â??water tortureâ?? (UPI, 8/31/83, 9/1/83, 9/7/83). One article published in the New York Times (9/2/83) about the case began, â??Two convicted burglars testified today that they had watched in fear as a former East Texas sheriff and his deputies used a water torture.â?? In another New York Times article (9/1/83), the news that â??another former deputy testified that they had handcuffed prisoners to chairs, placed towels over their faces and poured water on the cloth until the prisoners gave what the officers considered confessionsâ?? was summarized with the headline: â??Ex-Deputy Tells Jury of Jail Water Torture.â?? Media also referred to the practice as torture when it was used by the U.S. to train intelligence agents and military personnel who were at risk of being captured by enemy forces. In a column tracing the origins of the word â??waterboarding,â?? New York Times columnist William Safire (3/9/08) noted that a 1976 article had referred to U.S. Navy trainees being strapped down and water poured into their mouths and noses until they lost consciousness. . . . A Navy spokesman admitted use of the â??water boardâ?? torture . . . to â??convince each trainee that he wonâ??t be able to physically resist what an enemy would do to him.â??" http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3404
roland Member	Mon Sep 07 19:43:32 "I am SICK and TIRED of these stupid liberals using sensationalist terms to turn people against the things we NEED to use to protect America. Goddamn. " It is against the law, it has not shown to be effective.
Canadian Member	Mon Sep 07 21:05:38 Torture is not a reliable source of information, as people will say anything to get out of it. It's fun if you're a sadist though, I suppose.
State Department Member	Mon Sep 07 21:30:37 "Torture is not a reliable source of information, as people will say anything to get out of it." That's why you warn them that you'll guide them and/or someone close to them into a wood chipper 1 inch at a time if their intel turns out to be shit.
MrPresident07 Member	Mon Sep 07 22:38:06 This argument is tired and worn out. You cannot compare a formal military to a terrorist organization.
roland Member	Mon Sep 07 22:41:57 What argument?
Canadian Member	Mon Sep 07 23:58:21 "That's why you warn them that you'll guide them...into a wood chipper 1 inch at a time if their intel turns out to be shit." - And that refutes my point how? Physical torture is still torture, and bub will still say anything to stop you from feeding him into a wood chipper once you start. "That's why you warn them that you'll guide...someone close to them into a wood chipper 1 inch at a time if their intel turns out to be shit." - They have to care about those close to them for this to matter. If they're fanatical about a cause, that cause comes before all else, even loved ones, threats are useless.
State Department Member	Tue Sep 08 02:02:34 You haven't seen the wood chipper that my town has been using to mulchify the branches they cut down around the power lines.
	show deleted posts

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