Utopia Talk / Politics / Ridge: terror level raised to help Bush

Ninja Member	Thu Aug 20 15:47:56 Tom Ridge: I Was Pressured To Raise Terror Alert To Help Bush Win First Posted: 08-20-09 11:20 AM | Updated: 08-20-09 11:54 AM In a new book, former Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge reveals new details on politicization under President Bush, reports US News & World Report's Paul Bedard. Among other things, Ridge admits that he was pressured to raise the terror alert to help Bush win re-election in 2004. Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was "blindsided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over. Dave Weigel, writing for the Washington Independent, notes that in the past, Ridge has denied manipulating security information for political reasons. In 2004, for example, he said, "We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security." The Bush administration was forced to admit in the days after the 2004 alert that it was based on intelligence three or four years old. Officials then claimed there was a previously unmentioned "separate stream of intelligence" that justified the warning -- but offered little tangible information to support their new story.. ThinkProgress recalls, the AP reported that "even 'some senior Republicans' privately questioned Ridge's timing of a terror alert that came just three days after the Democratic National Convention." Ridge's book, "The Test of Our Times: America Under Siege...and How We Can Be Safe Again," comes out September 1. http://www...-i-was-pressured_n_264127.html
Nimatzo Member	Thu Aug 20 15:59:01 The question is, is anyone the least bit surprised? I have been waiting for these things to come out, for all these people to write their books and memories and spill the beans on these kind of things.
hoER Member	Thu Aug 20 16:07:47 Indeed.
Paramount Member	Thu Aug 20 16:19:31 Pretty outrageous.
Madc0w Member	Thu Aug 20 16:37:56 Is there any way to defend this? I think not.
Pervy Sage Member	Thu Aug 20 16:41:20 Glenn. Beck.
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 16:43:14 Ask HR or kargen.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 16:46:25 Scott McClellan.
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 16:53:31 Roger Moore.
hoER Member	Thu Aug 20 16:56:26 manipulating national security systems in a time of two wars to stay in power is pretty shocking. its amazing these guys arent on trial yet.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 17:00:58 Of you can't compare this to what Obama is doing right now. Come on people!
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 17:01:44 edit: Of course
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:08:43 You mean like extending the troop presence in Iraq beyond the time negotiated by Bush or that he is beefing up the number of American troops in Afghanistan?
hoER Member	Thu Aug 20 17:09:50 Lol, no, nothing on earth like that...was that all you could come up with?...lol
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 17:10:03 Are you trying to sideline the topic?
hoER Member	Thu Aug 20 17:11:42 HR, this thread is about "Tom Ridge: I Was Pressured To Raise Terror Alert To Help Bush Win " If you want to talk about Obama extending the troop presence in Iraq beyond the time negotiated by Bush or that he is beefing up the number of American troops in Afghanistan (completely in accordance with his campaign promise), then go start a thread about that.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 17:14:43 "You mean like extending the troop presence in Iraq beyond the time negotiated by Bush" You mean how MOST of the troops were supposed to be brought home in 2008. Meaning there are still going to be troops left there. Anything else you want to distort you fucking cunt? " that he is beefing up the number of American troops in Afghanistan?" He has always maintained that he was going to do and it is the right decision to do so, they were the main problem you twit.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:16:11 delude asked for a comparison between Obama and Bush, I gave one. delude - Of you can't compare this to what Obama is doing right now. Come on people! As for Tom Ridge, I think I dealt with him already.
hoER Member	Thu Aug 20 17:18:58 He didnt ask for a comparison lol; he posted a parody of someone like you doing a comparison just like the one you immediately posted rofl
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 17:22:10 HR, dur, duh, bleep, dur, da, da, bluh, bleh, blah, dee, dee, cocka, poo, poo.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:36:25 He said I could not compare Bush's past actions with Obama's present actions. If he did not want a response, he should not have asked for one. A lot of my threads have been derailed for a lot less cause than that. BTW, I am not derailing this thread, you people are. I was asked a question that I answered, I was ready to leave the thread then as I am now. But if you insist on wrecking the thread, keep talking.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 17:37:02 And no you poor excuse of fecal matter I didn't ask for a comparison, I made a sarcastic comment.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:40:11 You couldn't prove it by me. Many of my jokes and sarcaqsm have been taken as being serious. Your comment gave every indication of being serious. Guess it was your turn to make a statement that was taken in a different way than you intended. Tough.
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 17:40:33 You are derailing this thread.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:40:56 *-sarcasms
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 17:41:42 Everyone could se the sarcasm but you... But you are forgiven as you are pretty stupid as it is.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:44:11 Neverwoods, what part of this can you not comprehend? "BTW, I am not derailing this thread, you people are. I was asked a question that I answered, I was ready to leave the thread then as I am now. But if you insist on wrecking the thread, keep talking." I was ready to leave 30 minutes ago, but others are keeping me here to defend myself over what delude has admitted was a poorly worded post on his part.
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 17:47:20 Don't blame me for your low intelligence not to detect screaming out loud sarcasms. Carry on go away.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:47:36 Neverwoods, I seem to recall I posted a video of a little girl catching a large fish with her bare hands and you made a lewd and filty joke about it. I guess that makes you something pretty disgusting because you did not respond to the innocence of the video.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 17:52:21 Was there a question mark in there?
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 17:52:45 WTF does this have to do with the topic now? Make a tread about it, if you have too.
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 17:55:45 Besides i never made the joke about the clip it self, but made a joke aimed at you.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 17:56:24 You said not recognizing sarcasm made me "pretty stupid." I was just pointing out that your not recognizing an innocent video makes you some kind of a disgusting monster. I think that's fair.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:00:57 Where did I ask a question?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:03:24 I never made my post about you. I made it to delude in answer to his question. Not my fault if he was not capable of making every reader aware that he was being sarcastic. delude, as many errors that people make in punctuation, how am I supposed to know if that was a typo or not? You had made one error in that sentence by dropping the word "course."
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:05:48 Where was my question?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:06:08 Admit that you were guilty of sloppy unclear writing in that post and I will go away.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:08:31 How was I? I was correct with my statement. I also say "edit" and then edit my posts on mistakes that I made. As you can see I clearly didn't. You are wrong. Stop hijacking the thread.
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 18:09:34 "I was just pointing out that your not recognizing an innocent video" I recognized the innocence in the clip, but i did not recognize your innocence for posting it. This is what i joked about, big difference.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:16:15 I told you nearly an hour ago that I was ready to leave but you keep insulting me for what you said. "Of you can't compare this to what Obama is doing right now. Come on people!" Actually, that is not a question you are right. It is a clear statement. "Of course you can *NOT* compare..." But I could compare and I did.. Admit it, you gave a challenge to anyone reading your post and I took you up on it. Admit you screwed up and move on.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:17:59 Neverwoods, to make that kind of joke just proves you have a filthy twisted mind. No offense, just calling it like I see it.
Ninja Member	Thu Aug 20 18:18:25 "Admit it, you gave a challenge to anyone reading your post and I took you up on it." That's not a challenge, it's a statement of fact/opinion. It's him expressing his opinion that what Bush did is much worse than anything Obama has done. god you're retarded.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:18:51 Didn't screw up. You wanted to hijacked this thread. Admit that you didn't?
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 18:19:42 No you don't, you just have a habit to live up to your own sterotyps. Don't blame me for your short comings.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:22:51 Ninja - It's him expressing his opinion that what Bush did is much worse than anything Obama has done. Yes, it is him expressing his opinion by making a clear and emphatic statement. My opinion is different than his opinion as posted in his statement. He said I could not compare Obama with his opinion of Bush. I did.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:25:16 delude, I had no intention of hijacking this thread. I merely responded to your statement. Had you people not started insulting me that would have been the end of it.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:25:24 You make no sense whatsoever. Why are you hijacking this thread?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:26:54 What is a sterotyps?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:27:38 delude, You make no sense whatsoever. Why are you hijacking this thread?
NeverWoods Member	Thu Aug 20 18:27:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:33:22 So do you believe Tom Ridge's account?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:35:10 Why didn't you say stereotype? You mean the stereotype that I was saddled with 8 years ago by someone who found out it got under my skin. You must really feel good about yourself to carry on such a proud tradition. :) BTW, it doesn't bother me anymore, but reall does make you and your friends look really small.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:38:29 delude - So do you believe Tom Ridge's account? Asked and answered, I think he trying to do the same thing as Scott McClellan did. Trying to make a buck.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:39:58 Don't care about you, I was asking others.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:43:16 Besides, regardless if he is "trying to make a buck" shit like this doesn't concern you?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:44:06 So are you going to admit you were wrong and move on. Or are you just going to move on without admitting you were wrong as you always do.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:46:03 How was I wrong? When have I been wrong?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:47:06 Then you should not allow Madcow to ask if there was anyway to defend against it.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 18:48:42 You said hat your statement expressing your opinion was sarcasm. It wasn't, it was a statement.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:51:05 youre and idiot and if you want to carry this one, there is another thread addressing your hijacking. Back to topic.
Ninja Member	Thu Aug 20 18:53:06 "Trying to make a buck. " From the article: The Bush administration was forced to admit in the days after the 2004 alert that it was based on intelligence three or four years old. Officials then claimed there was a previously unmentioned "separate stream of intelligence" that justified the warning -- but offered little tangible information to support their new story.. and the source for that admission: http://www.../articles/A37954-2004Aug3.html
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 18:56:44 edit: you're an idiot.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 19:04:04 I guess you missed this: "Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said at a news conference in New York that while much of the intelligence that led to the alert was dated, authorities were alarmed by evidence that al Qaeda computer files obtained last week had been updated as recently as January." Do you think that is the *same* Tom Ridge?
Ninja Member	Thu Aug 20 19:12:13 "Do you think that is the *same* Tom Ridge? " Who do you *really* believe? The Tom Ridge that had to watch out for the Administration seeking revenge (see Plame incident) when they were in power or the Tom Ridge from when they are no longer in power? I love it how when anyone says anything bad about the Bush administration suddenly they're only doing it for the money... riiiiiiight cause the Bush administration was squeaky clean. ...
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 19:19:50 Who you gonna believe, "The Tom Ridge that had to watch out for the Administration seeking revenge (see Plame incident)..." I don't recall Ridge having anything to do with the Plame incident. Or the one that could sell a couple of extra million books by making up a bunch of stuff. Does he have copies of official documents pictured in his book that proves his claims?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 19:21:29 "I love it how when anyone says anything bad about the Bush administration suddenly" you swallow everything they have to say, hook, line and sinker.
Ninja Member	Thu Aug 20 19:23:09 " I don't recall Ridge having anything to do with the Plame incident. " r e a d i n g c o m p r e h e n s i o n try it. "Or the one that could sell a couple of extra million books by making up a bunch of stuff. " You mean confirming speculation from the time? Is going to sell millions of books? "Does he have copies of official documents pictured in his book that proves his claims? " You think *Dick Cheney* doesn't know to avoid writing shit down? ffs...
Ninja Member	Thu Aug 20 19:30:45 "you swallow everything they have to say, hook, line and sinker. " We HAD tons of questions regarding the timing. We had admissions that it was based on old data, and now we have the guy from the top of DHS admitting that he was pressured. Seriously, what the fuck... you're simply in denial.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 19:31:10 So all you got is what he said in a book he is trying to sell to liberals by trashing Bush. As I said, ""I love it how when anyone says anything bad about the Bush administration suddenly" you swallow everything they have to say, hook, line and sinker."
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 19:35:22 Dave Weigel, writing for the Washington Independent, notes that in the past, Ridge has denied manipulating security information for political reasons. In 2004, for example, he said, "We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security."
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 19:36:03 So which one is the lie?
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 19:59:40 You tell us HR, you know every god damn thing don't you?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:03:33 All I know is if someone makes two diametrically opposed statements when he stands to gain on both occasions, he is a liar.' You cannot believe a liar without evidence.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:04:19 So you consider Bush a liar?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:08:43 Who do you want to talk about? Ridge, Obama, or Bush. You sidetracked this thread earlier and tried to blame it on me. Now you are trying to do it again. Make up your mind and get back to me.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:15:38 How was I trying to sidetrack it? I was merely asking a simple question regarding political figures and their 'lying'. You can safely presume at the time of this incident Ridge was lying, but only because of the circumstances and anyone can understand that. It doesn't make it right. But now he is coming out with this information it should be more cause of a concern since there was alot of shady shit that went down during Bush's presidency. The problem that you have is that you refuse to acknowledge the wrongdoings of this administration even though it comes from the horses mouth. This occurs quite a bit in our history. Especially went more details are discovered during the aftermath. This has occurred in every presidency. And I am sure shit will come out from Obamas and I am dead certain you will be the first, considering if you aren't dead yet to jump up and go "See, I told you so!" And I would believe Ridge over you, he has much more integrity that you do you fucking dipshit, cunt, motherfucker.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:16:40 edit: Especiallly when
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:20:38 Ah yes, the liberal big guns. You cannot win the argument with logic and fair play so you resort to calling filthy names. Typical liberal.
hoER Member	Thu Aug 20 20:21:57 Very pithy finale there.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:23:26 Typical conservative. Ignore points, bury your head in the dirt, cover your hears and scream, and pretend you didn't hear anything.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:23:59 I thought so too, but liberals have potty mouths and that is all they know.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:24:24 But, at least I'm not a child rapist. So I can sleep better at night. Except for all the children that are living now. They have to fear you HR.
Jeff Fred Member	Thu Aug 20 20:27:07 This is true Hot Rod is a child rapist.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:31:34 From the article: Among other things, Ridge admits that he was pressured to raise the terror alert to help Bush win re-election in 2004. From The Article: "Dave Weigel, writing for the Washington Independent, notes that in the past, Ridge has denied manipulating security information for political reasons. In 2004, for example, he said, "We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security."" HR - All I know is if someone makes two diametrically opposed statements when he stands to gain on both occasions, he is a liar.' You cannot believe a liar without evidence. All I did was point out he made two opposing statements and he could not be believed without evidence. Your reasoned and well thought out response: delude - And I would believe Ridge over you, he has much more integrity that you do you fucking dipshit, cunt, motherfucker. No offense, but you call yourself a debater?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:32:50 More of your filth, typical liberal.
purvis Member	Thu Aug 20 20:33:32 Remember, HR is no generalizing about liberals at all here.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:35:45 Child rapist, I am a far better debater than you as I do not resort to distortions or make-up shit or ignore valid points of others. You have done all Mr. Child Rapist. But how convenient for you Mr. Child Rapist that you ignore the two paragraphs, another part of your character. So Mr. Child Rapist, do you want to address those points or just focus on a sentence about my opinion of believe a person of more integrity and isn't a child rapist?
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:36:41 edit: of believing
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:42:16 I didn't say he was like *all* liberals, just the typical ones. As long as you have been around you should know that.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:44:14 These are the only valid points I have seen Mr. Potty Mouth. "From the article: Among other things, Ridge admits that he was pressured to raise the terror alert to help Bush win re-election in 2004. From The Article: "Dave Weigel, writing for the Washington Independent, notes that in the past, Ridge has denied manipulating security information for political reasons. In 2004, for example, he said, "We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security."" HR - All I know is if someone makes two diametrically opposed statements when he stands to gain on both occasions, he is a liar.' You cannot believe a liar without evidence."
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:44:19 Mr. Child Rapist, you are a liberal too, so I do not know why you deny this.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:45:26 So you continue to ignore posters content. This is typical of Mr. Child Rapist. Why do you ignore the content of poster's Mr. Child Rapist?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:48:31 Of course I am a liberal, I have never denied that. A Social Liberal. What am I ignoring, you haven't said anything yet that I can respond to. Heck, I don't even know who you are talking about. I did ask you know.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:50:06 There was plenty of content for you to respond Mr. Child Rapist, you just resort to your usual stone deaf routine, Mr. Child Rapist.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:51:15 Name something and I will respond to it.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:51:51 Why are you a Child Rapist?
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:53:09 I'm not.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:53:27 Yes you are.
Hot Rod Member	Thu Aug 20 20:54:32 Nope, you are wrong again. As usual. Go ahead, you can have the last post.
delude Member	Thu Aug 20 20:55:16 Child Rapist.
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