Utopia Talk / Politics / Douchebag (R-Iowa) "Bipartisanship"

Ninja Member	Tue Aug 18 18:41:04 http://tpm...hebag-defines-bipartisansh.php On today's "Morning Meeting with Dylan Ratigan" on MSNBC, Iowa Senator Charles Grassley, ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, said that even if the committee's final version of a health insurance reform bill gives him everything he says he wants, he will vote against it. When NBC's Chuck Todd, in a follow-up question on the show, asked the Iowa Republican if he'd vote against what Grassley might consider to be a "good deal" -- i.e., gets everything he asks for from Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus (D) -- Grassley replied, "It isn't a good deal if I can't sell my product to more Republicans." In short, Grassley says he's willing to walk away from legislation in which he gets everything he wants. Over to you, Max Baucus... This is what "bipartisanship" means to Republicans. "Give us everything we want, and we will still vote against it because the successful passage of health care reform will be a victory for a Democratic president and a Democratic congress, and we're more interested in regaining power and keeping those big insurance company donations coming in than we are in ensuring easier, more affordable access to health care." It's time for the President and the leadership in Congress to wake the hell up. Pass the health care reform bill YOU want. FORGET the Republicans! Leave them on the sidelines to complain and bitch and whine and moan about how nobody listens to them. If it's a good bill, Democrats reap the benefits and the GOP continues to shrink and dissolve. If it's a bad bill, we take our deserved lumps. But for God's sake, if it wasn't time to stop letting a tiny, regional, minority party dictate policy on something so vital to the economy and to the well-being of every American -- hearing that they aren't even interested in PASSING a bill should be a clarion call to the densest among us. Do you HEAR me, Rahm?
Nekran Member	Tue Aug 18 18:58:35 "On today's "Morning Meeting with Dylan Ratigan" on MSNBC, Iowa Senator Charles Grassley, ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee, said that even if the committee's final version of a health insurance reform bill gives him everything he says he wants, he will vote against it." It's baffling that he can actually just say that and not be instantly removed from his function, which he clearly isn't willing to exercise properly.
Rugian Member	Tue Aug 18 19:03:45 "On today's "Morning Meeting with Dylan Ratigan"" lol, seriously? Ratigan? FINISH IT FLAVERSHAM
OsamaIsDaWorstPresid Member	Tue Aug 18 19:07:41 y am i not saprisid da democrap wants dictatership. 'waa da nigga in chief cant b da next hitlar easily' - ninja
pillz Member	Tue Aug 18 19:09:39 Good. He should not be voting for ANYTHING because it has what he wants. He should be voting for it because it has what the people from his state want. If those people, who voted him into office, are against the bill (even if it has what HE wants), he should vote against it.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:09:58 Yeah, hear this too Rahm! RightOnline: Michelle Malkin By David Weigel 8/15/09 12:20 PM PITTSBURGH â?? The author of the No. 1 New York Times bestselling â??Culture of Corruptionâ?? closed out the morning of RightOnline, where sheâ??s the undisputed star. She relished the attacks on conservative activists, sarcastically repeating what she claimed were left-wing assaults: â??You, the teeny tiny fringe minority of fringe conservative activists â?? you have seized control of the domestic policy debate in this country.â?? Malkin recited a litany of Democratic blunders, but one of them seemed misleading. â??Theyâ??re charging $25 to attend town halls to hear Obamacare talking points,â?? she said. The source for that? A post on Malkinâ??s blog, linking to the news that business-friendly Blue Dog Democratic Rep. Melissa Bean (D-Ill.) was speaking at a $25 breakfast for a local Chamber of Commerce. Multi-Chamber Breakfast meeting hosted by the Lake Zurich Area Chamber of Commerce will feature guest speaker Congresswoman Melissa Bean, September 2, 2009, @ Concorde Banquets, Kildeer. Congresswoman Bean will also be presented the US Chamberâ??s Spirit of Enterprise Award given annually to members of Congress based on their support of key business issues. Open only to representatives of Chamber member businesses in good standing in District 8. $25 cost includes a full breakfast. Based on that: Hey, Democrats across the country are charging for town hall meetings! http://was...08/rightonline-michelle-malkin Community Calendar: Lake Zurich Chamber of Commerce, (847) 438-5572, www.LakeZurichAreaChamber.com - Breakfast with Cong. Melissa Bean from 7:30-9 a.m. Sept. 2 at Concorde Banquets, Kildeer. Join the multi-Chamber legislative breakfast meeting and hear about Bean's most recently passed and proposed legislation and how it will impact your business; $25 per person, RSVP required by Aug. 24. http://www.pioneerlocal.com/lakezurich /news/1710031,lake-zurich-calendar-081309.article
pillz Member	Tue Aug 18 19:12:49 Hot Rod - why did you post something anti-conservative? Are you finally losing your mind?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:16:37 Hey Rahm, you migh want to give this guy a medal. "MASSA: I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I am doing is going to be helpful. (inaudible participants' comments regarding the "interests" of the district statement from Mr. Massa) MASSA: I will vote against their opinion if I actually believe it will help them." Watch the video, read the transcript. http://www...l-vote-against-interests-my-d/
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 19:17:11 So Malkin owned herself. Thanks for the laugh.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:18:51 Pillz, better read it again. A democrat charging an entrance fee to their Town Hall meeting is hardly anti-conservative.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:22:28 "Pretty sneaky, Congresswoman Bean By Michelle Malkin â?¢ August 16, 2009 09:58 AM Two days ago, I called attention to the $25 fee to get into Democrat Rep Melissa Beanâ??s town hall in Illinois. See here. After I blogged about it, someone changed the title of the meeting to lessen the embarrassment."
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 19:22:38 "A democrat charging an entrance fee to their Town Hall meeting is hardly anti-conservative. " That is the fee for the breakfast which is open only to the chamber of commerce, it is not a townhall, you dumb ass.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:26:58 "After I blogged about it, someone changed the title of the meeting to lessen the embarrassment."
licker Sports Mod	Tue Aug 18 19:27:15 Who the fuck would pay $25 for a breakfast? lol@the things libdems will believe
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:29:21 I think she was using her Town Hall meeting, which is supposed to be a way for her constituents to voice their concerns, as a fund raiser.
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 19:35:33 "After I blogged about it, someone changed the title of the meeting to lessen the embarrassment." Well, they made a mistake with the title, I guess. But that is clearly a business meeting.
eds Member	Tue Aug 18 19:40:56 "MASSA: I will vote adamantly against the interests of my district if I actually think what I am doing is going to be helpful. (inaudible participants' comments regarding the "interests" of the district statement from Mr. Massa) MASSA: I will vote against their opinion if I actually believe it will help them." Good man. Leadership isn't about doing the popular thing, it's about doing the right thing.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:42:38 Malkin told the RightOnline audience about the ways members of congress were avoiding open meetings with their constituents. From her speech: "And on the White House healthcare take-over plan, you have the majority running scared. Think about this, contemplate this, Democrat lawmakers, on recess now, are hiding from their constituents, in SEIU offices. They are taking sanctuary in children's hospitals. They're phoning it in, in teleconference calls, instead of face to face meetings. They're charging voters $25 to attend town hall events for the privilege of hearing ObamaCare talking point recitations. And they're stacking their audiences with fake doctors. ... " http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/15/video-mic... Malkin never said "Hey, Democrats across the country are charging for town hall meetings!" She singled-out Congresswoman Bean for charging this fee, but later she pointed out that Congresswoman Bean changed "the title of the meeting to lessen the embarrassment" from "town hall" to "chamber breakfast." http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/16/pretty-sne...
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:47:12 eds, is that what you would tell a subordinate that purposely ignores what you tell him to do and does what he pleases? The man is there to ***represent*** his district. Not to do follow his personal agenda.
pillz Member	Tue Aug 18 19:52:11 ............................ hot rod, it is because of people like you america is doomed. people stupid enough to believe the bullshit malkin says. just end your life please
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 19:55:42 Pillz, beg to differ. It is people like you that believe the democrats are doing what is best for America when they clearly care nothing for America and the ideals it was founded on.
Rugian Member	Tue Aug 18 19:57:17 Michelle Malkin, the pinnacle of virtue. http://gra...9/06/michellemalkinbikini3.jpg
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 20:01:23 Since when did you become a prude? :)
Rugian Member	Tue Aug 18 20:03:26 Since I tried to envision this creature in a bikini: http://kin.../uploads/2008/12/malkin9ro.jpg
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 20:04:28 "And on the White House healthcare take-over plan, you have the majority running scared." That's entertaining seing how they can continue to beat the dead horse. I wonder why this is the case? Say who is spreading these dead panels rumours the someone is going to kill your retard kids or elderly? Who keep mentioning the socialised medicines model like the "evil" British NHS or the Canadian Medicare? etc... "They're charging voters $25 to attend town hall events" No, one person is charging $25 for a CoC breakfast. So how is it all the sudden all those town hall events are charging $25 to attend?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 20:10:10 roland, why?
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 20:11:11 Why what?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 20:16:18 Why don't you read the posts of those you are discussing a subject with?
Canadian Member	Tue Aug 18 20:18:23 Malkin is a moron HR, and is does not make you look competent to bring her into any debate as evidence.
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 20:20:28 I did. If you have specific point, why dont you bring it up?
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 20:21:29 In your opinion, I'm sure she is. Would you like to hear my opinion about some liberals? :)
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 20:26:03 roland - So how is it all the sudden all those town hall events are charging $25 to attend? Please see my post time stamped 19:42:38 You asked your question at 20:04:28. Nearly 22 minutes after my post. Malkin never said "Hey, Democrats across the country are charging for town hall meetings!" She singled-out Congresswoman Bean for charging this fee, but later she pointed out that Congresswoman Bean changed "the title of the meeting to lessen the embarrassment" from "town hall" to "chamber breakfast." http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/16/pretty-sne...
Ninja Member	Tue Aug 18 20:55:04 Hot Rod, stop hijacking the thread. Mod please delete his posts. This talk is about bipartisanship and how there is no appeasing republicans short of no health care reform.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 20:58:55 I thought it was about politics.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 21:02:34 Isn't that what they always tell me?
NeverWoods Member	Tue Aug 18 21:03:20 The voices again?
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 21:09:22 I am quoting from your post, HR. Your post stated she said this in her speech. "...They're charging voters $25 to attend town hall events for the privilege of hearing ObamaCare talking point recitations... " That clearly stated that these democrat town hall eventS are charging money from their voters. So does it matter if she never wrote that on her blog? She said it during her speech.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 21:15:54 "Malkin never said "Hey, Democrats across the country are charging for town hall meetings!"" Can't you understand plain English. That 1st. article I posted was written by some guy named David Weigel of The Washington Independent. He lied. She never said it. PERIOD
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 21:27:05 "That 1st. article I posted was written by some guy named David Weigel of The Washington Independent. He lied. " You have a funny way to say this, you gave me a link to the HotAir video archive. And actually, after watching the second video, she DID say it.
Pervy Sage Member	Tue Aug 18 21:54:47 I like how HR hijacked the thread with nonsense deviating from the topic at hand, he won't address the issue concerning that a republican who got his way with a bill still won't vote for it as he and other republicans pushed for it's modification. Walking hypocrite.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 22:03:35 As happens in a long thread we sometimes get our signals crossed. The statement I was referring to was from my 1st post to this thread, "Based on that: Hey, Democrats across the country are charging for town hall meetings!" This was the lie. I [posted ***TWICE*** that it was a lie. Here is a third time, "Malkin never said "Hey, Democrats across the country are charging for town hall meetings!" She singled-out Congresswoman Bean for charging this fee, but later she pointed out that Congresswoman Bean changed "the title of the meeting to lessen the embarrassment" from "town hall" to "chamber breakfast." http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/16/pretty-sne... What I did *****NOT***** notice is that you changed the wording in your post time stamped 20:04:28. "They're charging voters $25 to attend town hall events" Yes, she did say that in her speech. I believe she was speaking about the ***ONE*** person who did try to charge $25 for her town hall meeting. That would be Congresswoman Bean. Please don't say that was for a Chamber of Commerce Luncheon. The name and purpose was changed after Bean was severly criticized. Next time you start talking about something else besides what we have been discussing, please give me a heads up.
Pervy Sage Member	Tue Aug 18 22:15:08 Why did you hijacked this thread HR?
roland Member	Tue Aug 18 22:17:42 "This was the lie. " No, that's not a lie, Malkin did imply the generalisation in her speech. "Please don't say that was for a Chamber of Commerce Luncheon. The name and purpose was changed after Bean was severly criticized. " Where do you find a townhall serving full breakfast? or only talk about the effect to the business, but not to the ordinary people? That doesn't sound very townhallish to me. "Yes, she did say that in her speech. I believe she was speaking about the ***ONE*** person who did try to charge $25 for her town hall meeting." Then why did she use "They" instead of "she" or "a congressman" or why did she use "townhall meetingS" , that is a generalisation apply to other Democrats town hall meeting.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 22:25:34 Please go away before I lose my temper.
Pervy Sage Member	Tue Aug 18 22:26:37 Oh, because you can't read HR, so you want to be pissy with roland, because YOU CANT READ?
Ninja Member	Tue Aug 18 22:36:10 GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK GET BACK ON TOPIC YOU HACK
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 22:39:52 People get their thread hijacked all the time. That is the nature of UP.
Byron Member	Tue Aug 18 22:54:32 Hot Rod, recent threads that you have made that I have observed were not hijacked. It would be prudent for you to have the decency of not doing the same. I do not know the purpose of you hijacking this thread or what point you are trying to prove, but this was uncalled for. As for the topic of this thread. It was as said earlier, I do not understand that if those who oppose this bill because they want to make some amendments to them and modify it and they do get their way and only to turn around to say they will not vote for it. Why in the hell did they want to change it in the first place or even continue to entertain the concept? That is really pathetic. Even though this is not the first time this has happened, though it is still appalling nonetheless when presented.
Hot Rod Member	Tue Aug 18 23:28:24 Ninja, I think my second post was on topic, but no one wanted to talk about it.
hoER Member	Wed Aug 19 05:28:22 "Hot Rod Member Tue Aug 18 22:25:34 Please go away before I lose my temper. " Rofl! Oh no! HR losing his temper, now thats real frightening lol. What are you going to do? Crush him with a "garfield" flame? Use your mod tools to silence him? Oh, wait...
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 05:48:51 HR needs to stop thinking he is the king of this place, man. Did he learn that from O'Reilly?
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 05:57:23 roland, your post of last night is so silly it really doesn't deserve an answer. You are grasping at straws. Please don't respond, I really do not care to put up with anymore of your nonsense.
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 06:08:37 "roland, your post of last night is so silly it really doesn't deserve an answer. " No, it is not. Like your favourite phrase. You liberals are such and such... It is a generalisation. You are not addressing a specific poster when you are using that phrase. Similarly when she said "They're charging voters $25 to attend town hall events", it is a generalisation. Stop crying for god sake. "Please don't respond, I really do not care to put up with anymore of your nonsense. " This is not your crawlspace, I dont think you get to tell what other people to do.
hoER Member	Wed Aug 19 06:10:21 Man would he give anything to be allowed to delete your posts right now roland...
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 06:17:42 HR needs to chill the f*ck out, man.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 06:18:21 Hardly, his posts just proves he is a spin doctor. Nothing more.
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 06:20:50 "Hardly, his posts just proves he is a spin doctor. " Spin doctor, LOL. Oh come on, so when you are using "you liberals are blah.. blah .. blah ", who were you talking to?
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 06:23:55 What has that to do with warping a speakers obvious meaning. "What we have here is a failure to communicate." You believe she is saying something she is not saying. You got it all wrong.
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 06:25:41 Who were you talking to when you are talking to "you liberals". Let me know when you ready to answer.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 06:29:33 LOL, I was speaking about those who are liberal and subscribe to whatever liberal idea I was opposing in the particular context of what was being discussed. :)
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 06:30:31 In other word, a generalisation of a group of posters.
hoER Member	Wed Aug 19 06:31:22 "You believe she is saying something she is not saying. You got it all wrong." This from...HR??? ROFL...seriously man, you KNOW thats how everyone sees you...
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 06:40:12 roland - In other word, a generalisation of a group of posters. "who are liberal and subscribe to whatever liberal idea I was opposing..." I thought my statement was very *specific.* It includes ***ONLY*** those liberals that were opposing my specific point. It does not include liberals who may agree with me on the subject being discussed. That is why I called you a spin doctor. The more specific someones statement the more you twist it and you do not even blush.
hoER Member	Wed Aug 19 06:42:17 Rofl
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 07:19:24 ***It includes ***ONLY*** those liberals that were opposing my specific point. It does not include liberals who may agree with me on the subject being discussed. That is why I called you a spin doctor. The more specific someones statement the more you twist it and you do not even blush.*** Then start putting disclaimers because people are going to read it as a generalization and rightfully so. Also, liberals are not the only ones who would oppose your specific statements. Further evidence that you were generalizing.
roland Member	Wed Aug 19 07:26:34 That's not a bad point.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 07:56:28 I cannot help it if people cannot interpret simple English.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 08:02:28 ***I cannot help it if people cannot interpret simple English.*** You do forget about context as well Hot Rod. I wish you would stop using this excuse as you use this more often than most when you are not getting your way. Especially when you go on a diatribe how people 'twist' your words. It is funny because you will take your own statement and accuse someone of misinterpreting it as it perfectly fits the context of your message. If anyone is 'twisting' anything it would be you, but I am not here to argue about misinterpretations. I am here to discuss topis of the thread, but apparently you cared not for it to hijack it and unfortunately others including myself followed. I would suggest that the OP just make another thread about this.
eds Member	Wed Aug 19 11:19:40 "eds, is that what you would tell a subordinate that purposely ignores what you tell him to do and does what he pleases?" That depends on the situation. If I ask him to accomplish an objective, tell him how to do it but he finds a better way to accomplish the same objective - I congratulate him. Although that's not a really realistic scenario since I rarely give rigid instructions to subordinates about how I expect them to accomplish a given task or function. As long as he does not stray from the objective, which he can not question because he doesn't have the information or overall context that I do. "The man is there to ***represent*** his district." He's there for a lot of other reasons. He has access to information that most voters don't have, either because they have the time, security clearance or simply don't give a shit enough to do the research. He has a staff that help him research things. He also understands the practicalities of political life in Washington. That's why he's better positioned to make sound decisions than anyone in his district he's representing. There is of course the check and balance that if he goes against the will of his district (and they don't come around to seeing the light) they may vote him out.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 13:04:46 Your analogy doesn't fit. This is not a question of finding a better way. The people in his district has made it perfectly clear to him the want him to vote against the Bill. He said he will vote for it and does not care what they want. You are right that they may vote him out. What odds will you give me? :)
eds Member	Wed Aug 19 13:18:33 "Your analogy doesn't fit. This is not a question of finding a better way. The people in his district has made it perfectly clear to him the want him to vote against the Bill. He said he will vote for it and does not care what they want. You are right that they may vote him out." all of that is true. all i'm saying is that i personally think he's doing the right thing especially since he has better information/resources to make such a decision than 99.99% of the people in his district. "What odds will you give me? :)" Couldn't care less. It'll be the district's loss if they vote him out and replace him with some stool pigeon that only cares about poll numbers.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 13:41:29 There are times Hot Rod that the majority may not know what is best or be right. Once upon a time much of the country was against desegratation. Were those politicans who thought otherwise wrong? Estimates from historians say that approximately 45 percent of the American colonists wanted to rebel against England. The rest did not want to rebel or were neutral. Were those delegates wrong to vote against their constintuents and for indepedence?
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 13:43:16 "especially since he has better information/resources to make such a decision than 99.99% of the people in his district." Well, if he has read the entire Bill and understands it he may be the only one in Congress who has.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 13:43:51 Hot Rod, have you read the bill?
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 13:44:27 Personally, I would vote against him even if I liked the Bill and he said he didn't care what I thought.
LikeItIs Member	Wed Aug 19 13:45:16 "MSNBC" Massive Epic Fail.
NeverWoods Member	Wed Aug 19 13:46:43 Byron let me save you some time, he has not read the bill nor will he, his attention spam is not that good. He used to complain about anyone makeing long posts beacuse he would skip over them, yet still argue. He has admited that a few times in the past.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 13:49:27 Thank you NeverWoods, but to me it is the principle of the matter. Hence why I am being obnoxious about it and asking him and still poking holes in his arguments even though he ignores me. All because he is intimidated by me and I do not know why.
NeverWoods Member	Wed Aug 19 13:53:51 In the past he used to post long articles on what he thought it praised bush witch later turned out be the reverse, because he usually looks at the headline and reads a few paragraphs and makes the posts. This is also why he has fallen for onion articles twice, posting them and not thinking they are a parody, he does not read them. Now days he is more careful of his sources.
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 13:55:44 "Byron = Why post something if you are not going to discuss it. I find that strange. That is *EXACTLY* why I am not going to discuss this with you. I never had any intention of discussing this. I posted it for information purposes only, but you always twist things and assume I said things I did not say. You apply your opinion of what you "think" I said to the what I actually said and then refuse to accept an honest explanation. You Sir, are a dishonest adversary.
Ninja Member	Wed Aug 19 13:57:51 "You Sir, are a dishonest adversary. " Yes, he's dishonest for trying to discuss a point of information you bring up. ... You, sir, are a moron. If you are unwilling to discuss something when someone disputes you should not bring it up in the first place.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 14:00:15 Hot Rod, ***That is *EXACTLY* why I am not going to discuss this with you. ***I never had any intention of discussing this. I posted it for information purposes only, but you always twist things and assume I said things I did not say. You apply your opinion of what you "think" I said to the what I actually said and then refuse to accept an honest explanation. You Sir, are a dishonest adversary. *** I am bewildered still. Do think about it for a moment. The trend of discussion for a while has been about Health Care reform. Where you have been discussing it in many threads so one would deduce that indeed you want to discuss it. The main literature about the bill was posted by you which would make sense to any rational person that indeed you do want to discuss this as you are a strong opponent of this particular option of health care reform, and your continuance of discussing it in other threads. So what is one to expect Hot Rod, when the main topic is still being pursued by you? What exactly did I 'twist'? How exactly am I 'dishonest'? Yes I do apply my opinion as do you? What is the problem exactly? If you cannot answer my questions it is as I have said, I think you are intimidated by me and I do not know why? I am a perfectly harmless person that wants to have a discussion, a minor debate, or conversation. Surely those are the same reasons why you participate here?
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 14:05:02 ***In the past he used to post long articles on what he thought it praised bush witch later turned out be the reverse, because he usually looks at the headline and reads a few paragraphs and makes the posts. This is also why he has fallen for onion articles twice, posting them and not thinking they are a parody, he does not read them. Now days he is more careful of his sources. *** That is unfortunate and sometimes we are guilty of doing the same thing. I do find it disheartening in a sense that if Hot Rod wants to continue discussing Health Care Reform and he posts the literature for us all to read so we can be better informed about it and to have talking point and he has not read it himself but he feels obligated to discuss it in other or start other threads, then I cannot figure out what he is trying to prove. Except that he wants to repeat what he hears in soundbytes or what ultra-radical conservatives repeat without having read the damn bill. That is partly the reason why we cannot get anything done in this country that is worthwhile.
eds Member	Wed Aug 19 14:11:56 "Well, if he has read the entire Bill and understands it he may be the only one in Congress who has." but i'm sure all of his constituents have too, right?
Hot Rod Member	Wed Aug 19 14:12:37 Ninja - If you are unwilling to discuss something when someone disputes you should not bring it up in the first place. You people only see what you want to see don't you. "I posted it for information purposes only..." I did not post it so we could all sit down and chat about it over tea. No one had posted it before and I came across it so I posted it in case anyone wanted to look up something to back up their arguments. If you people were aware you would know that I frequently post things for the benefit of the forum.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 14:15:20 Hot Rod you posted it but you keep repeating inaccurate or false statements and claims. You keep making threads regarding health care but have you yourself read this bill as you keep referring to it in your threads? It is going to be a talking point it what this health care reform is all about considering it is the main bill proposed.
Byron Member	Wed Aug 19 14:21:03 If you are going to keep posting threads and be critical of this bill, then at some point you need to read it or at least most of it. It is unfair to those who discuss this with you and point out your inaccuracies or misinformation since you keep referring to it say what this bill will do to the government and to the people. The bill specifically states its purpose and I have a feeling you haven't read that and that is on the first 10 pages.
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