Utopia Talk - Politics - France & nukes: How is this better?

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Utopia Talk / Politics / France & nukes: How is this better?

murder
rank Tue Mar 03 00:36:08
France to boost nuclear arsenal and extend deterrence to European allies

France is to boost its nuclear arsenal and extend the deterrent to cover other European countries, in a major development of its nuclear defence policy.

In a speech in Brittany, President Emmanuel Macron explained the changes as the response to an increasingly unstable strategic environment.

"The next 50 years will be an era of nuclear weapons," he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o

murder
rank Tue Mar 03 00:37:16

Why is it preferable for France to expand it's nuclear arsenal rather than other European nations developing their own arsenals?

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Pillz
rank Tue Mar 03 00:53:26
Name a european nation that wants nukes that you think should have them

murder
rank Tue Mar 03 01:05:47

I don't know who wants nukes, but I know that trusting the French to provide a nuclear umbrella is insanity. France is not going to get Paris nuked to defend Warsaw.

Although the same goes for the US.

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Seb
rank Tue Mar 03 03:57:30
Murder:

Much faster, and avoids breaking the NPT which remains in Europes interest. If the NPT collapses and nuclear proliferation happens I expect many more EU states will develop nukes.

Seb
rank Tue Mar 03 04:05:19
Murder:

"France is not going to get Paris nuked to defend Warsaw."

You misunderstand the level of independence between EU member states - it's much more akin to saying "Washington isn't going to risk getting nuked over Hawaii" - which is also probably true. Warsaw is more vital to France than some parts of France.

But core Vs periphery ambiguity and risk of Salami slicing in deterrence logic is as old as nuclear weapons.

But you are also misunderstanding the point of forward basing nukes - its a nuclear tripwire force, that's all. It provides a degree of deterrence in attacking the base where the nukes are in terms of having to wonder whether the nuclear power will incorrectly perceive it as part of a counter-force strategy triggering an escalatory spiral.

Cf. How Russia and Ukraine have exploited nuclear power plants to some degree to "protect" co-located forces.

Sam Adams
rank Tue Mar 03 05:46:13
"Why is it preferable for France to expand it's nuclear arsenal rather than other European nations"

Because then we know they would never used lol.

show deleted posts

murder rank	Tue Mar 03 00:36:08 France to boost nuclear arsenal and extend deterrence to European allies France is to boost its nuclear arsenal and extend the deterrent to cover other European countries, in a major development of its nuclear defence policy. In a speech in Brittany, President Emmanuel Macron explained the changes as the response to an increasingly unstable strategic environment. "The next 50 years will be an era of nuclear weapons," he said. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4zlnezrl7o
murder rank	Tue Mar 03 00:37:16 Why is it preferable for France to expand it's nuclear arsenal rather than other European nations developing their own arsenals? -
Pillz rank	Tue Mar 03 00:53:26 Name a european nation that wants nukes that you think should have them
murder rank	Tue Mar 03 01:05:47 I don't know who wants nukes, but I know that trusting the French to provide a nuclear umbrella is insanity. France is not going to get Paris nuked to defend Warsaw. Although the same goes for the US. -
Seb rank	Tue Mar 03 03:57:30 Murder: Much faster, and avoids breaking the NPT which remains in Europes interest. If the NPT collapses and nuclear proliferation happens I expect many more EU states will develop nukes.
Seb rank	Tue Mar 03 04:05:19 Murder: "France is not going to get Paris nuked to defend Warsaw." You misunderstand the level of independence between EU member states - it's much more akin to saying "Washington isn't going to risk getting nuked over Hawaii" - which is also probably true. Warsaw is more vital to France than some parts of France. But core Vs periphery ambiguity and risk of Salami slicing in deterrence logic is as old as nuclear weapons. But you are also misunderstanding the point of forward basing nukes - its a nuclear tripwire force, that's all. It provides a degree of deterrence in attacking the base where the nukes are in terms of having to wonder whether the nuclear power will incorrectly perceive it as part of a counter-force strategy triggering an escalatory spiral. Cf. How Russia and Ukraine have exploited nuclear power plants to some degree to "protect" co-located forces.
Sam Adams rank	Tue Mar 03 05:46:13 "Why is it preferable for France to expand it's nuclear arsenal rather than other European nations" Because then we know they would never used lol.
	show deleted posts

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