Utopia Talk / Politics / Trump's hush money trial

Rugian Member	Mon Apr 15 15:40:01 At least 50 of first 96 potential jurors have been dismissed for saying they couldn’t be fair or impartial. (The other 46 lied) (Manhattan broke 85% for Biden in 2020...Just saying) Let the banana republic-style trial of the leading national opposition candidate based on spurious charges commence!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 15 15:56:57 need 1 Trump cultist for a hung jury need 12 Trump haters, willing to be corrupt, for an unwarranted guilty verdict
Rugian Member	Mon Apr 15 16:15:00 Thanks for perfectly demonstrating exactly why these trials are so problematic in the first place. In your mind, there's no way Trumo could ever legitimately get off, it would have to be due to a "cultist" or some such nonsense. You do realize that people on the opposite side of the political spectrum have the exact mirror opinion, right? There's no scenario in which a verdict is reached and an overwhelming bipartisan majority of Americans think "Yeah, that's fair." Its gonna come down entirely to whether you planned to vote for or against Trump this November. Acting like the politics can be taken out of these proceedings is just insane.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 15 16:59:41 i was only listing corrupt outcome potentials which are heavy in his favor he can legitimately get off if the prosecution doesn't prove its case (& all 12 jurors aren't rabid Trump haters willing to be corrupt) plus if any rabid haters try to sneak onto the jury, their whole history will be scoured & risk exposure & end up helping him anyway... & even if they find nothing, team Trump will just make up that that's occurred (plus meanwhile Trump's absurd behavior completely ignored by your side... him calling the judge corrupt & evil based on NOTHING... plus the totally made-up bullshit of Biden being behind this and every other trial... most ridiculous is the 'defense' he's offered in the docs case being total obvious bullshit about the PRA allowing him to take anything he wanted, but somehow doesn't matter at all... who cares if the candidate for 'president' can interpret laws to say the exact opposite of what they say...)
Habebe Member	Tue Apr 16 02:15:13 Rugian is correct, there is no legitimate manner in which he can recieve a fair trial. So, if he loses, he needs to take power and make what he did annulled or my preference, Super legal, all actions of mine once I take power would be deemed super legal. Augustus Pinochet shot rockets at the president, some said it was a crime, however, he had root access to the legal system basically.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 16 12:27:57 are you aware your sides position is it's unfair to charge Trump w/ crimes? (& of course his position is he should be immune from the law, that i hear no criticism of) plus unfair to have Democrats on the jury even if 6 jurors were openly wearing MAGA hats i'm sure the king asshole would still be complaining, but some of you would think that made it fair...
Rugian Member	Tue Apr 16 14:47:52 No, you're right, it's "fair" to abuse the legal system to tie up the political opposition for weeks or months on end during the campaign season. That's how free and fair elections are supposed to work. "Trump is required to be present at trial, which could go six to eight weeks." http://www...og/rcna145935?page=5#live-blog And of course, the shitbag DA is already threatening to jail him for violating bullshit restrictions on his free speech rights. New York State is not America anymore...it's justice system is more akin to Nicaragua or Russia than that of a civilized country.
murder Member	Tue Apr 16 17:16:13 Trump can't be required to be present at trial. A defendant has the right to face his accuser ... not an obligation. Trump should call their bluff.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 16 21:50:02 he was under all the criminal investigations well before he announced running, he was criminally charged very early in the primary (w/ him declaring extremely early to be sure of it)... your side decided to find it appealing despite him giving completely idiotic excuses & being clearly guilty so tough shit... (& not like the trials are hurting him, he's campaigning on it & has got your whole side believing all the trials are corrupt despite offering NO DEFENSES ON ANY OF IT, & in fact completely clearly guilty on docs while saying the dumbest shit imaginable about it)
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 16 22:35:12 [tumblefag (TDS Bot)]: "being clearly guilty ... in fact completely clearly guilty" This is the crux of tumblefag's delusions right here. He has already pre-determined Trump's guilt, and taking the position of Cardinal Richelieu, the process is merely a means of satisfying that belief. There is no reasoning past this kind of cult-like stupor. Tumblefag simply is. not. there. But, similarly, tumblefag's guilt has also already been determined. His continued insane ramblings and the waste remaining of his life are merely the sentencing hearing. He is the monster that he believes Trump to be.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 16 22:51:36 on docs (the crystal clear obvious guilt) the current defense by Trump is the Presidential Records Act let him keep any doc he wanted this is demonstrably false... also there is NOBODY rushing to fix it before Bribery Biden loots every doc as there's no need to fix it, thus his whole 'party' & Fox knows he's lying yet nobody says a word so yeah, he's guilty... even he offers no defense (plus just massively stupid comments)... and there is heaps of clear evidence in the indictment (that you can't read... your side must maintain no knowledge of the facts) & he has repeatedly confessed to having the docs anyway, go make paragraphs of crazy bullshit & claim a defense is somewhere else that i have to find on my own (on J6, incredibly clear wrongdoing as well, but requires looking at facts that occurred which your side can't do, in fact Faux had to completely mislead the audience to what the charges would even be about)
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 16 22:58:31 There tumblefag goes lying again. Your guilt has already been determined. The rest of your pathetic life is merely a sentencing hearing.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 17 00:49:49 excellent argument... you proving my lies yet again, well done bye
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Apr 17 01:31:44 I do not have to put up an argument (yet again) when you're just repeating your same tired lies (to which I have responded repeatedly) and when you have openly said that you do not read anything that I write in response anyways. That is your Tumbleweed Method: claim to have received no argument and no evidence, then refuse to read any argument or evidence because "paragraphs" are hard for tumbletards such as yourself to comprehend. Why would I expend the effort when you have so thoroughly shown that you are incapable of the good faith to benefit from it? Already this is too long for your ADD mind. The intellectual burden of liberty is beyond you since it competes with your preferred obedience to the Regime. Anything that contradicts your dogmas produces such great cognitive dissonance in you that you must look away as one would from a bright light. You do this because you are in a cult. You are a liar and are maliciously evil. You will do anything — tell any lie, commit any evil act — if it results in the discharge of your ghoulish resentment and the purging of your psychotic fixation on Trump. This is because your ideology is that of goblins, pond parasites, and other foul oddities. There is nothing in you except to attach yourself to the living like a barnacle, resenting nobility while knowing that you lack the strength to exist without attaching yourself to them. You are incapable of becoming greater. The dedication to your improvement that would make you greater you instead use on Trump, and this misguided dedication will only ever make you lesser. Your guilt has already been determined. The rest of your pathetic life is merely a sentencing hearing.
patom Member	Wed Apr 17 06:28:53 Dang, I've read a few books about different parts and battles of the Civil War. Now I'm waiting eagerly for the new accounting of the Battle of Gettysburg. I understand that it was horrible and brutal, and beautiful in so many different ways. And Robert E. Lee seems to have fallen out of favor. Was it because he talked like Long John Silver? Never attack up hill me boys. Never attack uphill!!! I can't wait for this book to hit the shelves of my local library.
patom Member	Wed Apr 17 06:35:25 It has been reported that Trump fell asleep during Jury selection. To be honest, I can empathize with him. When I worked at the jail I had to go to the court room when jury selection was going on. It was all I could do to stay awake after the first dozen or so repetitions of the same words to potential jury members. Apparently the Judge is required by law to repeat all the instructions to each and every one of them as individuals so that they can't be used as an excuse for a mistrial.
Dukhat Member	Wed Apr 17 09:50:27 Trump so clearly violated the law literally every chance he gets. Only totally fucking brain-dead people like Cherub would believe he could be innocent.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 17 13:05:54 he's definitely a criminal, w/ zero respect for the law (& makes it completely obvious) though in this Bragg case he does have a chance at 'not guilty' i imagine... i don't know all the details (a far less interesting & important case than the federal ones) but it seems to me it could be tricky to prove it all beyond a reasonable doubt (it's about falsifying business records & whether that was done to hide campaign help... which i'm sure would be news to all cultists who will of course no nothing at all) he's got lawyers & accountants to throw in the way, plus he leaves no paper trail or record of his own actions
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 17 13:11:07 in a sane world, his voters might view it as a negative that he was paying off women to keep his adulterous activities hidden from them, but that's not where we are...
obaminated Member	Wed Apr 17 13:49:48 You think Biden hasn't paid women off to protect himself and/or hunter? Lol.
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Apr 17 16:58:30 [Dukhat (Projection Bot)]: "Only totally fucking brain-dead people like Cherub would believe he could be innocent." Oof, this projection must hurt Dukhat a lot. Dukhat just admitted that he — being "fucking brain-dead" — only believes in Trump's guilt due to his immense mental deficiencies. Yikes. By extension (since Dukhat is a satirical version of a leftist), this maps correctly onto tumbletard, so it makes sense and was even continued by tumbletard, who took the bait by agreeing with the Projection Bot: [tumblefag (TDS Bot and cultist)]: "he's definitely a criminal, w/ zero respect for the law (& makes it completely obvious)" That is, tumblefag is a criminal with zero respect for the law. I have said before that tumblefag's very ideology (i.e., his demonstration of it through his psychosis threads) is itself proof that the 2020 election was fraudulent, since criminals such as himself were in power across society with the same delusions that they must take direct action to stop "[Hitler 2.0, who is] definitely a criminal". Imagine millions of deluded TDS Bots such as tumblefag, seeded in polling stations, NGOs, and bureaucracies, convinced in 2020 that they must "stop Hitler 2.0" at all costs. These cultists, having zero morality and being literal criminals with no moral sense whatsoever, have admitted to us openly that they would do *anything*. With such widespread immorality, all it takes is a missing ballot here and a forged signature there — multiplied by millions just as Chinese collectivists steal a beach a grain of sand at a time. Are we to believe that tumblefag is even *capable* of morality? Is any part of him left that would stop short of telling one lie or another? No. His guilt has already been determined — just as he has determined Trump's. That is the cost of his lawlessness: the same protection he denies for another is denied for himself. He sees Trump in his every mirror and so punishes himself. [obaminated]: "You think Biden hasn't paid women off to protect himself and/or hunter?" Bingo. And recall that Hunter's prostitution images were listed in UP, and tumblefag had to ignore them and ignore the implications of this. Deranged leftists such as tumbletard were convinced of things such as the Trump "pee tape" despite having no evidence beyond the lying Regime's word, yet we have direct evidence that Hunter did indeed do far worse and that Joe is an actual pedophile who raped his own family members. It seems not to occur to these delusional leftists that the Puppet Biden was selected because the Regime can so easily blackmail him; he will literally do anything they want him to do. They pride themselves on sitting behind one puppet as being "[as good as any other]", believing that this is the proper choice against "loyalty" to a "demagogue". The left fears nobility because nobility can recognize immoral mob agitators hiding behind their puppets. The left creates labyrinthine bureaucracies to hide accountability for their derangement, but nobility can slash the bureaucracies. ¡AFUERA!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 17 17:55:05 "You think Biden hasn't paid women off to protect himself" uh, yes... so now we're just assuming Biden pays off women too (w/ zero evidence)? like we assume Biden is weaponizing DOJ w/ zero evidence because Trump says so... (& did his best in office, ran on 'lock her up', & is openly running on doing it even more next time)... & even though you hate it about Biden (w/ zero evidence he even did it), it's totally fine for Trump... what a fucked up 'party' you have...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 12:38:09 someone is on fire outside court...
murder Member	Fri Apr 19 14:58:52 Was it a liar? :o)
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Apr 19 15:11:52 [tumbletard]: "we assume Biden is weaponizing DOJ w/ zero evidence" I saw this before but just want to highlight how fucking retarded this statement reveals tumblefag to be. Tumbletard is such a fucking idiot that he really thinks the Biden DoJ is just behaving totally without bias. This isn't just a lie, this is a cultist's beyond-absurdity lie, since the hundreds of items running through the head of anyone with a memory greater than tumblefag's goldfish memory should immediately make people with memories realize that tumblefag's position requires not just total ignorance to sustain itself — but total self-deception as well. And this is the crux of the slavish death cult's cult thinking: *if* tumblefag does not just have a goldfish memory, then he would defend as "unbiased" all of the examples of a weaponized DoJ that you might list. This means that tumblefag thinks that the prosecution of Whites and Christians and the simultaneous non-prosecution of Regime client groups is the "neutral" position. He thinks this because he is in a cult and because he is evil.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 19 15:20:25 the aflame guy seems to be a local nutter, apparently had pamphlets described per police presser as: "...a conspiracy theory-type of pamphlet; some information in regards to Ponzi schemes and the fact that some of our local educational institutes are front for the mob.” he was taken to hospital, not sure if still alive
murder Member	Sat Apr 20 08:12:49 OK, I know I've asked before, but I'm going to need to have this explained to me again ... what exactly is this case about? What crime is alleged here?
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 12:41:22 i don't think all the specific details are as clear as in the federal cases (at least the indictment document certainly isn't) but in general it's a bunch of 'falsifying business records' charges related to claiming payments around the hush money as Trump Org legal expenses, -plus- then also alleging that it was done to hide the payments from disclosure in violation of campaign finance laws (if the falsifying is done for the purpose of another crime it becomes a felony instead of misdemeanor, which Bragg is going for)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 12:52:54 one other thing to point out... the cult believes the Twitter Files show Biden pressured Twitter to silence the laptop story (that isn't in the Twitter Files at all, just the Biden camp requesting naked photos of Hunter taken down in violation of TOS... in fact the Files shows neither Biden nor FBI nor anyone pressured them into 'silencing' it (for the whole 1-2 days...), it was in fact the least corrupt possible reasoning, just some Twitter people unsure what to do & making a call) whereas, Trump was in secret agreement w/ AMI/National Enquirer to catch & kill stories (& they did so) & it doesn't matter at all to the Faux/cult not exactly the same thing, but one factually happened...
Im better then you 2012 UP Football Champ	Sat Apr 20 16:06:59 Well known fact more voters that see Hunter Biden's dick vote for Trump.
kargen Member	Sat Apr 20 18:51:12 Near every person that ever used the services of an escort or a prostitute has paid hush money. That is part of the deal. Even if that were not true it isn't illegal to pay hush money. In fact we see it happen in courts across the nation almost daily. Two sides reach an agreement and both agree not to disclose the amount. Not a crime and in fact is a legal resolution to end a conflict. The only question that has a legal consequence is did he pay with campaign funds or not. Since Cohen told Trump not to worry about things that he (Cohen) would handle it that doesn't come into play either. The star witness for the prosecution we know is the one that actually committed the crime if there was a crime committed. Another court already ruled Stormy broke the nondisclosure agreement and that ruling shows that the payment was legal. Trump says he paid the money to keep his family from knowing. The left says he paid to keep voters from knowing. Doesn't matter which is true in determining if a crime was committed.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 19:09:29 that's a whole lot of garbage info "...it isn't illegal to pay hush money..." no one says it is ---------- "The only question that has a legal consequence is did he pay with campaign funds or not" no, not the issue either... just whether the payments were for the benefit of the campaign thus needed to be disclosed (+ the falsified records) ---------- "Since Cohen told Trump not to worry about things that he (Cohen) would handle it that doesn't come into play either" since Trump paid him back (+ a bonus), obviously not the case ------------- "The star witness for the prosecution we know is the one that actually committed the crime if there was a crime committed" & already convicted for it, thus was a crime -------- "Trump says he paid the money to keep his family from knowing" ...& he lies 100% of the time "...Doesn't matter which is true in determining if a crime was committed" false, because of the campaign disclosure issue (also falsifying the business records is still a crime)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 19:17:34 co-conspirator David Pecker (of AMI/Nat’l Enquirer) will be testifying (unless perjuring) of their agreement to squash stories for the campaign which will be strong evidence against the 100% liar Trump
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Apr 20 21:48:51 [tumblefag (TDS Bot, liar, deranged cultist)]: "in fact the Files shows neither Biden nor FBI nor anyone pressured them into 'silencing' it (for the whole 1-2 days...), it was in fact the least corrupt possible reasoning, just some Twitter people unsure what to do & making a call)" Absolute liar. Tumblefag will just outright lie about what was in the Twitter files because he has no conscience and is evil. It should be telling for everyone that the only way that tumblefag and many such deranged cultists can attempt to sell anyone on voting for the pedophile Biden is by constantly lying about all of the deranged totalitarian actions of this Regime. Tumblefag can do this while blushing like a black dog because he is maliciously evil and a cultist. No argument with him will change this — no amount of evidence. People need to understand that these psychopaths are our absolute enemies. "Some [little bitch-boys] just want to watch the world burn." .. But if anyone needs a good deep-dive into this latest DNC lawfare attempt at removing their opposition from the presidential race, then Ryan Long has come through: "I Went to The Trump Hush Money Trial" [April 20th, 2024] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Au9Ie1BUc
kargen Member	Sat Apr 20 21:50:43 "just whether the payments were for the benefit of the campaign thus needed to be disclosed (+ the falsified records)" and since Trump wasn't the one that made the payments we have to wonder why he is the one in court if we are being honest. Trump said it was so his family wouldn't find out. There is nothing that proves otherwise. No E-mail, social post, recorded phone message or anything. Just some Trump haters saying no it had to be because of the campaign. A classic he said she said that can't be proven either way until we develop the ability to read minds. And yeah Cohen went to jail for the crime because he committed the crime. He told Trump not to worry about the details and it wasn't Trump that paid him back but an enterprise of Trumps that the courts already ruled are a separate entity. You don't have to disclose a campaign expense if there was no campaign expense. You are assuming something that can never be proven. The crimes you have mentioned that may actually be crimes were committed by people other than Trump. But because Trump is the one running for office he is the one the left has decided to go after the law be damned. Even people fairly far to the left of central have admitted in almost any other district in NY Trump would never be convicted of what he is being charged. Bragg and others are so adamant about keeping the trial under their control because they no they have nothing without a biased judge and a tainted jury. In the real world that is the truth. Your world who the fuck knows what is going on.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 21:57:12 "Absolute liar. Tumblefag will just outright lie about what was in the Twitter files because he has no conscience and is evil. " .P.L.E.A.S.E. prove my lie... it should be a cakewalk as the Twitter Files are published, and you 'know' i'm lying, so present the lie... i'm shocked you didn't already in that post as would be so satisfying wouldn't it? (if you weren't 100% wrong) (& proving the lie means showing something directly from the Twitter Files, not your standard 50 paragraphs of claiming it exists and not showing it)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 20 22:01:27 i see you are sticking w/ the garbage info "...since Trump wasn't the one that made the payments we have to wonder why he is the one in court if we are being honest" yeah, he did make the payments, that's the falsified entries... if he didn't make the payments there'd be no falsified entries "Just some Trump haters saying no it had to be because of the campaign" yeah, his personal lawyer for years... plus David Pecker (a Trump ally)... & common sense... plus we don't know what all evidence Bragg has however, yes, proving Trump responsible & why is the crux of the case ('you can't mind read' doesn't mean you never try a case)
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Apr 21 01:23:24 [tumblefag (absolute liar, psychopath, cultist, TDS bot)]: ".P.L.E.A.S.E. prove my lie... it should be a cakewalk as the Twitter Files are published, and you 'know' i'm lying, so present the lie... i'm shocked you didn't already in that post as would be so satisfying wouldn't it? (if you weren't 100% wrong)" Your guilt has already been determined. I need prove nothing to *you* anymore than a shark need prove to a fish that its head is all that's left of its body after the fish suffers a large bite. You do not even exist as a mind capable of seeing evidence, as is the Tumblefag Method. The rest of your pathetic life is merely a sentencing hearing. For those who can indeed see the truth: Just realize how much evidence tumblefag has to pretend does not even *exist* to sustain his delusions. His long-standing lie (he being a liar on behalf of the pedophile totalitarian-Regime) on the Twitter Files has been, "[Hur hur, if you go to some of those links it's just inappropriate memes, hur hur,]" whereas what he lies about by omission is that this was *not* just some executive talking about the FBI making him feel uncomfortable but not complying (i.e., the lie spun by Regime media of Yoel Roth). The reality is that we know for a fact that Twitter was conducting massive censorship of conservative views — and even largely still is if you consider the new Overton Window where the furthest right the algorithm will allow is the Jews of Daily Wire and Babylon Bee. This cannot be correctly summed by the tumblefag-ish lie of "[just a couple of memes, bruh]." No. The propaganda apparatus of Twitter was plainly favoring the psychosis accounts of the DNC — accounts such as Acyn, which tumblefag *still* uncritically reposts in his psychosis threads (e.g., thread #44 http://uto...hread=92705&time=1713645612278 ). In the case of the FBI, the FBI claimed that it was merely compensating Twitter for work that it was having them do on its behalf — but this totally ignores that Twitter had *dedicated* hours spent on FBI-compliance. I.e., this was not just an existing staff that did overtime to meet temporary and exceptional demands for a short stint; people were *hired* and a department *maintained* for compliance with the FBI's requests. And was the FBI merely asking for Twitter to follow its own terms and services as a neutral arbiter with no bias? Absolutely fucking not, but this is the lie told by lying cultists and pedophile-supporters such as tumblefag. In reality, the FBI was *specifically* targeting conservatives. And this is the crux: tumblefag will continue to pretend that nothing was happening **because he supports what was happening**. This has been the long-standing point going back to the 2019 appearance of the Twitter executives on Joe Rogan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZCBRHOg3PQ If tumblefag has not seen this video, then he can shut the fuck up. The short version and recap for those who did is that Tim Pool (for all his faults) had to *repeatedly* explain to the Twitter executives that their very *idea* of "neutral" and "unbiased" was dysfunctional and fallacious. In one example of their case, they admitted to mass-censorship of anyone who did not affirm "trans" ideology, but they could not comprehend that this meant mass-censorship of conservatives. The problem with cultists such as tumblefag is that he truly believes the Regime's talking points against "misinformation" and "disinformation" — **because he supports the removal of the opposition**. So tumblefag will talk out of both sides of his mouth: "That's not happening and it's good that it is!" Tumblefag will claim that Twitter censorship did not exist, while simultaneously saying, "[Of course those *lies* should be censored! They contradict the Grand Pedophile's Totalitarian Regime! Hail the Bolsheviks! Hail pedophilia! I am tumblefag, and I endorse pedophilia! I endorse totalitarianism!]" In short, to deny that conservatives were being massively censored is to deny reality itself. Tumblefag, being in a cult, openly denies reality.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Apr 21 03:20:27 One of the theories floating around for this latest Trump trial charade is that the DNC is intentionally tying Trump to the area to bring out the crazies, since the DNC has been actively promoting a Trump a55a55ination through, e.g., propagandizing psychopaths such as tumbletard into terminal TDS. The goal would be to set up a repeated daily event that gives Manchurian Candidates and MK Ultra crazies time to rehearse before acting. In one such case, Max Azzarello lit himself on fire near the trial venue in NYC: http://twitter.com/TaraBull808/status/1781510550436123073 (This thread details that he was a leftist and includes his manifesto; direct link: https://theponzipapers.substack.com/p/i-have-set-myself-on-fire-outside ) It's interesting to see a leftist actually address some of the realities of our current situation rather than play into it stupidly like the cowardly leftists of this forum. Azzarello realizes, for instance, that global totalitarianism is being ushered in through a global Ponzi Scheme, but his way of psychologically accepting it (as a leftist) is to tell himself that Biden is merely aligning with Trump to achieve this. In this way, he can still hate Trump while correctly assessing this game of global totalitarianism. TLDR: Another leftist caught fire.
obaminated Member	Sun Apr 21 11:21:35 So a dude sets himself on fire over the show trial that is happening and carreer anti trumping tumbleweed gives it next to no attention.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 11:25:40 "Your guilt has already been determined. I need prove nothing to *you* anymore" shocking... another accusation of me lying, where you easily should able to show the proof (which would be 1 or more links to the Twitter Files), but you can't (as just wrong & apparently know it)... embarrassing... who exactly do you think you're fooling? i know i'm not lying & doubtful anyone reads all your garbage (though i wasted my time this time) then you rant about 'targeting conservatives' & bias which has NOTHING TO DO w/ anything i said Twitter Files shows NO pressure by Biden/FBI/anyone to censor the laptop story: -FACT- anyway, i'll mark down this thread to remind me how you NEVER can back up your claims of me lying you being a troll or crazy still unclear (crazy seems more likely given how many words you waste time typing)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 12:05:44 "So a dude sets himself on fire over the show trial that is happening and carreer anti trumping tumbleweed gives it next to no attention" i'm the one who mentioned it... & it had nothing to do w/ the trial... (& i've still said more about him than you, w/ your 'outrage' over me not mentioning enough)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 12:10:40 back on topic, for anyone caring about factual info (which isn't the cult side at all on any case) one tidbit from David Pecker (who already has testified under oath when he was facing charges) http://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1782081579260719192 ^AMI releasing two people from NDA's after Trump elected (so not about Melania...) & Trump invited Pecker to Trump Tower after election to thank him & later invited him to a WH dinner as thanks for the election help (& other items in that Twitter thread about their agreement to help the campaign by squashing stories)
kargen Member	Sun Apr 21 16:34:02 Still not a crime to pay hush money (legally called a non disclosure agreement) and you still would need to be a mind reader to know why the money was paid. Fun thing about the US is guilt has to be proven and not the other way around. I know in your imaginary world guilt is determined by how you feel but the rest of us are solidly based here in reality. For this to be about campaign law you need actual proof to what Trump was thinking. And even then the penalty for breaking the law in the manner Trump is accused has always been payment of a fine and sometimes a misdemeanor charge.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 17:40:47 intent is often a necessary part of a crime, mind-reading never occurs, people still get convicted also, i'm presenting direct evidence that it indeed was for the campaign: the specific agreement w/ AMI to do the same acts -for the campaign- & Trump thanking him for doing so after
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Apr 21 23:15:00 [tumblefag (TDS bot, liar, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "shocking... another accusation of me lying, where you easily should able to show the proof (which would be 1 or more links to the Twitter Files), but you can't (as just wrong & apparently know it)... embarrassing..." Your lies deceive no one. The Twitter Files are common knowledge. The only way you can reject them is through your Faith in Party, which compels you to lie. [tumblefag (TDS bot, liar, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "Twitter Files shows NO pressure by Biden/FBI/anyone to censor the laptop story: -FACT-" False. You are a liar who deceives no one. [tumblefag (TDS bot, liar, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "you being a troll or crazy still unclear (crazy seems more likely given how many words you waste time typing)" Once again, tumbletard — as so many of these weakling leftists — seem to think that me typing paragraphs is difficult, which is more a reflection of their *own* pathetic difficulty with logic, reason, and comprehension. [tumblefag (TDS bot, liar, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "for anyone caring about factual info (which isn't the cult side at all on any case)" The projection here is outstanding. Tumblefag is clearly in a cult, with his cult shrine to his God Trump now sitting at 45 threads ( http://uto...hread=92784&time=1713667224957 ), so here he admits that he does indeed have no concern for the truth. [kargen to tumblefag]: "Fun thing about the US is guilt has to be proven and not the other way around. I know in your imaginary world guilt is determined by how you feel but the rest of us are solidly based here in reality." Tumblefag is as guilty as he believes Trump to be. Where tumblefag has determined guilt without trial, he has created a system where his own guilt is already determined. This is the consequence of his immorality. The rest of his life is merely a sentencing hearing.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 23:33:04 your evidence of my lies is as compelling as always
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 21 23:36:02 fuckhead kinda confessing here... " The Corrupt Soros Funded District Attorney, Alvin Bragg, who has totally lost control of Violent Crime in New York, says that the payment of money to a lawyer, for legal services rendered, should not be referred to in a Ledger as LEGAL EXPENSE. What other term would be more appropriate??? Believe it or not, this is the pretext under which I was Indicted, and that Legal Scholars and Experts CANNOT BELIEVE. It is also the perfect Crooked Joe Biden NARRATIVE - To be STUCK in a courtroom, and not be allowed to campaign for President of the United States! " repaying hush money is not a legal expense, & kind of takes away his path of claiming the accountants did it w/o him realizing it
kargen Member	Sun Apr 21 23:47:55 "also, i'm presenting direct evidence that it indeed was for the campaign" no, you really are not. Direct evidence would be something like an E-mail, memo or transcript. What you are presenting is other peoples opinions.
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Apr 21 23:49:14 [tumblefag (TDS bot, liar, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "your evidence of my lies is as compelling as always" The evidence is not at issue. It is abundant and incontrovertible and you will not hear it anyways since you are a brick wall. This being so, it is only your adherence to cult dogma that is being discussed. You are in a cult. Your guilt has already been determined.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 22 00:10:14 "What you are presenting is other peoples opinions" Pecker having an explicit agreement w/ Trump is not Pecker just having an opinion (& then being explicitly thanked for the campaign efforts also not an opinion)
jergul large member	Mon Apr 22 01:20:15 I frankly think Trump has a good defence. Since when does Trump give a shit about facts? The hushpayment is not to me because he wanted to become president. It is because locking down someone with an NDA gives bullying power. Ie Trump wanted the NDA so he could bully Daniels mercilessly with legal action if she ever decided to challenge Trump's version of the truth in any form. Way more in character than some fear that he might actually lose the election because of anything Daniels might claim. I would not convict him of a felony here. The misdeminor part of the charge means nothing.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 22 11:44:58 it's certainly not a slam dunk case, but the specific agreement w/ Pecker/National Enquirer to help squash stories for the campaign is significant plus them putting Cohen's repayments into monthly business expenses a clear effort to hide from -something- but we'll see what all evidence they have, Trump doesn't use email (or know how to) but you'll have other people's messages saying 'the boss wants...' or whatever (as w/ the docs case & his henchman's texts)
kargen Member	Mon Apr 22 17:10:44 if they thought they actually had a case they wouldn't be so adamant that the trial happen where it is. They are setting this up knowing full well there will be an appeal if Trump loses wasting even more of his time. They are successful in their end goal of keeping Trump off the campaign trail and that is the only thing this trial is about. If it were about anything else the judge wouldn't be demanding Trump be present. The law says the defendant has a right to attend his trial not that the defendant must attend.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 22 17:41:35 are you aware you just make shit up? it happens really often "if they thought they actually had a case they wouldn't be so adamant that the trial happen where it is" who is 'they'? Bragg is bringing it in New York as it's a State charge -------- "They are setting this up knowing full well there will be an appeal if Trump loses wasting even more of his time" yes, on a loss he will appeal, which will be his choice & doesn't have to do anything for thus won't hinder him at all... (& here's you implying it's some corrupt goal to convict him of a crime just so he'll 'waste time' appealing? really that's the plan?) plus he has chosen to file & appeal all sorts of shit that has no chance of success, so obviously that isn't a bother to him --------- "If it were about anything else the judge wouldn't be demanding Trump be present" no idea what you mean 'anything else'... yeah, if not a criminal trial he wouldn't be... as to taking him off trail be the goal, Trump also complained about the judge rushing the trial... he could've wasted weeks on jury selection if taking him off the trail is the goal... there is ZERO indication the judge cares about that, & is there anyone out there who actually needs to hear more from Trump at campaign events? plus he could be campaigning when he comes out of the court to talk to the press instead of just whining about himself, it's more TV coverage than his rallies would get
kargen Member	Mon Apr 22 20:47:17 You are aware there is more than one district in NY right? The appeal thing was more to the point that Bragg and others know they have nothing but want to waste the states time and money to waste Trumps time and money. This isn't about any other outcome than keeping Trump off the campaign trail. The point is there shouldn't be a criminal trial. There was a misdemeanor (maybe) committed and the time to go to trial on that expired so Bragg invented a new crime that has never been prosecuted before as it is now. He is saying federal finance laws have been broken but all federal agencies that looked into it said nope. Yes Trump complained about the trial being rushed. He believes it could have been held after the election instead of fast tracked. The timing is meant to cause Trump the most inconvenience and not that they started Bragg will be sure to start dragging his feet. So tell me if this isn't about keeping Trump off the campaign trail why is the judge requiring him to attend? Do you really not understand what a campaign rally is about? The answer is right there in the name. It is called a rally because it rallies up the supporters. It creates enthusiasm and the best way to create enthusiasm is by traveling the country holding live events. Again, why is the judge demanding Trump attend? What law says the judge can make that ruling? And might we also know exactly what crime did Trump commit. Not just the generic campaign finance but an actual law where we can go read the text of that law. Hint for you. When looking don't bother with felony laws, you won't find one.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 22 21:46:11 it was charged where the crime occurred as is completely normal “He is saying federal finance laws have been broken but all federal agencies that looked into it said nope” False... Cohen convicted of it, and Pecker having to agree to terms to avoid prosecution... yes, they chose not to charge Trump, but not because no crime occurred “Yes Trump complained about the trial being rushed. He believes it could have been held after the election” and he just complained about jury selection being rushed so not what I’m talking about... if there’s no case and tying him up is the whole goal, then completely nuts to rush that so incredibly clearly not the case (plus you’re the one complaining of mind-readings yet have no problem mind-reading the judge and prosecutor to reach your conclusions) “because it rallies up the supporters” they don’t need rallied in April (plus his cult is fully radicalized already) “What law says the judge can make that ruling?” incredibly clearly New York law... you think a judge can randomly restrict his movements on a whim? the news said for a long time he’d be required to attend (and not because the judge had said so) “Hint for you. When looking don't bother with felony laws, you won't find one.” wrong again... and weird you would even think so given he’s obviously charged with it... I’m on an iPad I’ll retrieve momentarily on a computer...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 22 21:48:54 FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10 imagine that, Bragg actually charged him with a real crime that exists... & didn't just get a trial going on nothing... i'm sure you're shocked
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Apr 22 22:24:02 tumblefag's position again makes sense when you realize that he is evil: tumblefag wants Trump in NYC because he knows that this will increase the odds of a Trump a55a55ination. Everything else is window-dressing.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Mon Apr 22 22:49:18 you got me... and it was me who directed Bragg to weirdly charge the crime where it was committed... & now we are running a trace on your computer...
kargen Member	Mon Apr 22 22:55:28 Trump didn't do that. It was handled through one of Trumps organizations and courts have already ruled Trump the man and Trump the organization are separate entities. Even if Trump had personally been in violation of 175.10 the statute of limitations has long since passed. You got an actual crime Bragg should be pursuing or did you shoot your whole wad on this dud? And why is the judge demanding Trump attend the trial other than to keep him off the campaign trail? Trump being forced to attend shows the true intent isn't a conviction but election interference on Bragg and others part.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 23 00:06:34 [tumblefag (TDS bot, evil death cultist)]: "you got me..." Yes. And the rest of your words are window-dressing to obfuscate this fact. You are an evil psychopath member of a death cult. The only outcome of your ideology is billions dead and those remaining enslaved by the pedophile-puppet Biden admin's "sustainability" scheme. You are a totalitarian sycophant and a pedophile supporter. There is not a single ounce of you that has any noble morality left.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 00:27:14 " Even if Trump had personally been in violation of 175.10 the statute of limitations has long since passed. You got an actual crime Bragg should be pursuing...? " what is wrong w/ you... i gave you the crime he is in fact charged with... Bragg can't just say 'you committed a felony!' & get a trial going w/o even specifying the crime that is the crime charged... if it was past statute of limitations the case would've been dismissed a long time ago (or never brought) court is not the wild west as you apparently think a proper crime must be alleged... if any valid cause to dismiss it would've been done by now, if Trump wasn't legally obligated to attend he wouldn't be legally obligated to attend...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 00:33:51 one piece of law (although incredibly fucking obvious it's the law & not the judge making shit up): " Jury trial; defendant's presence at trial Criminal Procedure (CPL) CHAPTER 11-A, PART 2, TITLE J, ARTICLE 260 § 260.20 Jury trial; defendant's presence at trial. A defendant must be personally present during the trial of an indictment; provided, however, that a defendant who conducts himself in so disorderly and disruptive a manner that his trial cannot be carried on with him in the courtroom may be removed from the courtroom if, after he has been warned by the court that he will be removed if he continues such conduct, he continues to engage in such conduct. " http://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/260.20
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 23 01:01:10 On the plus side, tumblefag is illiterate, so we can be pretty well assured that Trump is innocent here.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 13:02:52 Pecker still on the stand, they went over the smear stories Nat'l Enq ran on Rubio, Cruz, Ben Carson to help Trump, & how they bought the doorman story (Trump having bastard child w/ a maid) specifically so other outlets wouldn't run it & hurt the campaign... including how the smear stories were sent to Trump campaign/Cohen before running for input (a bunch of shit that should infuriate the cult but won't matter at all) now moving to the most relevant story of Karen McDougal (playmate Trump had a long affair with, that National Enq caught/killed) setting up the pattern & practice for when Cohen handled Stormy (for the record, i'm not saying a clear guilty verdict on -this- case... though w/ Pecker & Cohen committing crimes, seems a bit odd the person they were 100% acting on behalf of would get off scot-free)
obaminated Member	Tue Apr 23 16:19:21 Lol, tw is shocked, shocked and outraged to learn that a political candidates campaign fed stories to a news agency.
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 23 16:34:58 [tumblefag (TDS bot, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "for the record, i'm not saying a clear guilty verdict on -this- case" lol. Tumblefag already backing off his failed positions after all of that hearty smug shit-sniffing he did while speaking with condescension to kargen. Absolute coward. [tumblefag (TDS bot, Regime sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: "(a bunch of shit that should infuriate the cult but won't matter at all)" Kind of like the Twitter Files? Oh yeah. Those apparently proved nothing to the totalitarian death cult, so you can probably expect the same from your opposition, since the result of the friend/enemy distinction being properly reconciled is that your words will always be poison.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 17:07:00 "tw is shocked, shocked and outraged to learn that a political candidates campaign fed stories to a news agency" knowingly fake stories, & no not fed to, collaborated on ------------- "backing off his failed positions" nope, i've never said he will be found guilty here, he's clearly guilty on docs case, hopefully guilty on J6 (though i don't know 'defrauding the US gov't' law & what needs established) i stand by everything i said to kargen
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 17:24:09 oh actually obaminated is right, it included fed-to bullshit stories (thus even worse, not that the cult will mind any of it at all, they love being fed false info)
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 23 17:27:39 [tumblefag (TDS bot, totalitarian sycophant, pedophile supporter)]: • "i've never said he will be found guilty here," • "i stand by everything i said to kargen" Notice how the totalitarian death-cultist tumbletard can doublethink his position here. He was very overtly and adamently presuming Trump's guilt, yet he will simultaneously say that Trump will not be *found* guilty here — even within a biased DNC district under a biased DNC judge with a biased DNC prosecutor. If Trump is guilty and the odds are so stacked against him, then would not he be found guilty? In the cultist tumblefag's world: no. This is how tumblefag insulates himself from the slow creep of reality — which will always contradict his delusional claims as he falls for hoax after hoax.
kargen Member	Tue Apr 23 17:40:11 "what is wrong w/ you... i gave you the crime he is in fact charged with..." yes you did and I pointed out the statute of limitations expired on that crime. I didn't mention that for the first time in history a state had to go outside the state to find a crime to link. They found a crime everybody else said wasn't evident enough to start an investigation let alone actually go to trial with. It wasn't dismissed because bragg with help from a friendly judge invented a new crime. One that has never been charged before by any state since we've been a country, so never. "if Trump wasn't legally obligated to attend he wouldn't be legally obligated to attend..." Show me where it says a defendant can be forced to attend. The judge decided that all on his own. The law says "Subdivision (2) (a) recognizes that a defendant in a criminal proceeding has a statutory right (as well as a constitutional right) to be present at “trial” unless that right has been waived or forfeited." The rest of the language in that law gives reason a defendant can be removed from the courtroom. THere is nothing about forcing the defendant to be in the court room. The judge has no legal standing in doing this. From the link you provided: "A defendant may choose for tactical or other reasons to waive his or her presence at a trial or ancillary proceeding. Cf. People v. Williams, 92 N.Y.2d 993, 684 N.Y.S.2d 163, 706 N.E.2d 1187 (1998) (a defendant, who for sound tactical reasons wanted to waive his presence during the interview of prospective jurors, was entitled to do so; but once the defendant waived his presence, he was not entitled to rescind that waiver after the voir dire commenced). The waiver of the right to be present at trial or an ancillary proceeding must be “voluntary, knowing and intelligent.” Accordingly, the defendant must at a minimum be aware of the right to be present and the consequences of choosing not to be present or failing to appear at a hearing or trial. See People v. Parker, 57 N.Y.2d 136, 454 N.Y.S.2d 967, 440 N.E.2d 1313 (1982). It is thus advisable for a court at arraignment or other appropriate appearance to advise a defendant of his or her right to be present at the proceedings, including hearing and trial, and that if he or she deliberately fails to appear when required, any proceeding, including a hearing and trial, can and will continue in his or her absence.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 18:31:52 to crazy nutbag: i said very early on: "though in this Bragg case he does have a chance at 'not guilty' i imagine" & never said otherwise my claims of definite guilt have never been about this case, & no one wanted this case to be the one he got tried on (except Trump's side probably, at least to help avoid the other's getting scheduled)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 18:43:06 "yes you did and I pointed out the statute of limitations expired on that crime" IT INCREDIBLY OBVIOUSLY HASN'T OR THERE WOULDN'T BE A TRIAL PLEASE PROVE OTHERWISE are you just a troll too? -------------- "for the first time in history a state had to go outside the state to find a crime to link" this didn't happen... ------------- "It wasn't dismissed because bragg with help from a friendly judge invented a new crime" this isn't a thing that even can happen... ------ "The rest of the language in that law gives reason a defendant can be removed" were you hoping i wouldn't look it up? the very text where you left off: [“A defendant's presence at trial is required not only by the Confrontation and Due Process Clauses of the Federal and State Constitutions (see, US Const 6th, 14th Amends; NY Const, art I, §6), but also by CPL 260.20”] also, please show me a single article anywhere announcing the judge has chosen to order Trump to attend the trial in person (which would definitely exist if it happened rather than just being the law)... (& no, the ruling on Barron's graduation doesn't count as the judge is only in position to allow that because Trump already has to be there by law... (& i would bet that Trump request is to cancel trial for that day rather than just Trump being allowed to leave, but not sure... & sure as fuck won't believe anything you say that's always wrong)) Trump has never tried to waive his right to being present at the whole trial, so the rest of your comments not relevant... he wants to be there (just as he showed up at the civil trials when he didn't have to after regretting skipping the Carroll trial)... & he just wants to complain & play the victim as misleading you cultists is what he does
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 18:57:46 ...actually, i found it myself (on the Barron thing), and yes, i'm right: " ... Then, Trump's counsel asked the judge to adjourn court on a few specific dates so that they could attend other events, including a Supreme Court hearing this month and Barron's high school graduation in May. ... " so a request for court to be cancelled those days, not merely him stepping out... & judges are brutal dictators to all in court EXCEPT the jury who they are subservient hosts, & they don't like doing anything to inconvenience the jury (& for the record, i don't think even still that he's ruled on the graduation day, despite the team of fucking liars misleading that he already denied it & is somehow heartless & evil despite being normal -if- it occurs)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 23 19:02:17 (so on no issue is it shown that the judge is the reason Trump has to be in court rather than it just being the law)
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Apr 24 00:07:35 [tumblefag (TDS bot, Regime sycophant, malicious liar, pedophile supporter, evil cultist)]: "my claims of definite guilt have never been about this case" Sure thing, liar.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 24 01:01:52 feel free to prove where i've claimed definite guilt on -this- case... should be right in this thread even... somehow you won't be able to but will insist it happened (which is your standard method of 'proof') pathetic or insane
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Apr 24 01:21:11 [tumblefag (TDS bot, Regime sycophant, malicious liar, pedophile supporter, evil cultist)]: "pathetic or insane" More projection.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 24 01:22:28 and if kargen will continue stubbornly insisting the judge chose to make Trump be there (as I’m sure he will), then please link one of the many articles that would definitely exist of “Judge forcing Trump to be at trial!” (And better not be a misleading garbage Barron graduation one given I’ve already shown that’s not even related as that’s Trump’s team asking for all of court cancelled... which also, by the way, wouldn’t have been the ask, it would’ve been just Trumps excusal -if- it’s just the judge ruling on a whim and you believe Trump doesn’t want to be there (but both are false, it’s just the law, and Trump a whiny lying shit))
Cherub Cow Member	Wed Apr 24 01:25:07 Tumblefag still hoping that if he says more words that it will obfuscate the fact that he's supporting Trump's appearance in NYC because tumblefag is evil and wants Trump a55a55inated.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Wed Apr 24 11:15:57 yeah, that's totally been my point all along & i totally didn't notice you failed (as always) to provide any proof of your claim about my posts, when this thread contains the bulk of the comments i've ever made about this case (that is not important to me) so should've been ridiculously easy to do
murder Member	Thu Apr 25 11:32:13 Trump better get himself locked up soon, because this trial is dying in the ratings. :o)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Apr 25 21:58:16 insane guy claiming security is to hide his supporters: " The Courthouse area in Lower Manhattan is in a COMPLETE LOCKDOWN mode, not for reasons of safety, but because they don’t want any of the thousands of MAGA supporters to be present. If they did the same thing at Columbia, and other locations, there would be no problem with the protesters! " imagine anyone else saying this... try...
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 26 00:05:30 Trump's totally accurate description of today: "BIG DAY IN COURT(S) TODAY. The Soros backed Alvin Bragg case, presided over by a highly conflicted Judge, has completely fallen apart..." citing no testimony obviously ---- anyway, Pecker was still on the stand, cross-examination started by the end of the day the Supreme Court case caught much of the news cycle, but various stuff i gathered: -very well established Pecker was helping for the purpose of the campaign -Trump more than once asked Pecker how Karen McDougal was doing, with Trump calling her "our girl" & "Karen" including at the WH (thus clearly a true story, sorry Melanie... not that there was much doubt) -supposedly Hope Hicks & Sarah Huckabee Sanders both called Pecker to urge him to keep up the deal w/ Karen when he was deciding to release her from the NDA... very weird for them to be involved, imo... Hope Hicks is a witness for prosecution so could be interesting testimony there - Pecker & others were concerned they were breaking the law at the time (& they were...) - Pecker didn't want to handle the Stormy story & sent it to the campaign to deal w/ themselves (not new info but important) not an exhaustive list of notable items
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