Utopia Talk / Politics / Israel halts 'dialogue' with UK

Paramount Member	Thu Nov 04 09:00:42 Israel halts 'dialogue' with UK over war crimes law Israel is postponing "strategic dialogue" with Britain over defence and security issues, an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman has said. The move is a protest over attempts to use British law to prosecute visiting Israeli officials, the spokesman added. The news comes on the first day of an official visit to Israel by the UK's Foreign Secretary William Hague. The Foreign Office said the British government was moving to curb the use of "mischievous" arrest warrants. Mr Hague will also be visiting the occupied territories during his visit. An arrest warrant was issued through UK courts for Israeli former Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni in December last year. The warrant was granted by a London court at the request of Palestinian plaintiffs, provoking Israeli anger. It was revoked when it was found Ms Livni was not visiting the UK. The Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman denied that the latest development was a deliberate "ambush" to humiliate Mr Hague. Earlier this week it was reported that Israel's Intelligence Minister, Dan Meridor, cancelled a trip to Britain amid concerns that he risked being arrested on war crimes charges. Israel has expressed anger that, in the past, ministers and senior military figures have had to cancel visits to the UK because of concerns that pro-Palestinian groups might use the courts to seek their arrest over Israeli military action in Gaza, or this year's raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship in which nine Turkish activists were killed. Pro-Palestinian campaigners have tried several times to have Israeli officials arrested under the principle of universal jurisdiction, which holds that some alleged crimes are so grave that they can be tried anywhere, regardless of where the offences were committed. The BBC's Wyre Davies said the news that Israel was postponing an annual round of strategic talks with Britain was potentially embarrassing, even though the Conservatives have already promised to amend those laws which could expose visiting Israeli politicians to arrest. The Israeli Foreign Ministry said the issue would be at the top of the agenda during Mr Hague's visit. A Foreign Office spokeswoman said: 'We share Israeli concerns about the current universal jurisdiction arrangements which inhibit Israelis visiting the UK without fear of mischievous arrest warrants. "That's exactly why the government is moving as quickly as possible to amend them. A written ministerial statement was tabled to parliament in July and legislation will be tabled in the very near future. We remain committed to the strategic dialogue with Israel and have an ongoing dialogue on a whole range of issues including Iran. "We are discussing dates for the next round of the strategic dialogue with Israel." Analysis Paul Danahar Middle East Bureau Chief The timing of this announcement will have raised eyebrows on the British side, because the UK feels it is working hard to meet Israeli concerns over this issue. Western diplomats are often frustrated by the way the Israeli foreign ministry works - it has a record of making statements which embarrass and frustrate Israel's allies and friends. But diplomats say what is said and done by the Israeli Foreign Ministry is often at odds with the Israeli prime minister's position. That reflects one of the anomalies of the very fragile coalition government in Israel. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11681989 -- There is nothing wrong with the UK law. If the Isralies are worried about getting arrested for war crimes, maybe they should stop committing war crimes? Huh?
Jason.Bourne Member	Thu Nov 04 09:04:37 This was guaranteed to happen, the moment the UK implemented Sharia law. The UK is going to shit. My favorite is how they outlawed "Christians" from adopting children because of their "extremist" ideology, and "archaic" traditional values. Fuck the kids, we need to crush the Christians!
Jason.Bourne Member	Thu Nov 04 09:05:16 http://new...g-children-because-of-beliefs/
Jason.Bourne Member	Thu Nov 04 09:05:47 Shit country. UK = FAIL. So sad, the land of Magna Charta, once greatest empire in history, now overrun by fags and idiots.
Milton Bradley Member	Thu Nov 04 09:06:31 "This was guaranteed to happen, the moment the UK implemented Sharia law." Why do you bother lying so blatently?
Jason.Bourne Member	Thu Nov 04 09:09:36 Follow the link. Islam is being kowtowed to, conservatives and Jews and Christians are arbitrarily targeted and BANNED from the country (Google Michael savage banned in Britain).
Milton Bradley Member	Thu Nov 04 09:13:32 The link has nothing to do with sharia law being implemented in the UK. As usual you prove yourself to be a spamming idiot who just wastes space on UP.
Paramount Member	Thu Nov 04 09:17:37 Poor criminal Israelis, they can't travel to the UK because then they would risk being arrested and put on a trial for their many war crimes. Poor Israelis.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 04 09:43:53 JB: UK has not implemented Sharia law. All the anglo based legal systems, including your own, have something equivalent to the Arbitration act. Sharia, if this is what you want to call civil arbitration proceedings with an Islamic flavour, is practiced in the US under the Federal Arbitration act, in Canada, the UK and I think Australia. Given that the attempt to prosecute Israelis through the legal system is a direct consequence of the Rule of Law and various principles that date back to Magna Carta, I find it very odd you should be arguing against the prosecution of Israelis while lamenting the loss of Magna Carta. The banning of Michael Savage is for nothing more than his history of stiring up trouble. Hell, the US banned a Brit from traveling to the states for sending a drunken email to the president.
Asgard Member	Thu Nov 04 11:11:30 Israel probably does this because it knows how crappy small the UK Army is about to be soon.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 04 11:25:19 Asgard: Not sure that a security dialogue with Israel is particularly relevant for the UK.
Asgard Member	Thu Nov 04 11:43:39 I'm joking, Seb.
Asgard Member	Thu Nov 04 11:44:57 "Western diplomats are often frustrated by the way the Israeli foreign ministry works - it has a record of making statements which embarrass and frustrate Israel's allies and friends. " They do a great work embarrassing Israel itself, too. I'm beyond sad, I'm amused.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 04 12:10:54 Asgard: Well, more to the point, I really don't get what there is to talk about... Israels problems come less from Al-Quaeda and more from Hezbollah and Hamas, which seem to have very little interest in the UK. Our threat comes from Pakistan, though there is of course temporary issues in Afghanistan/Iran, but the Yanks are the point of contact there. We probably have stuff that is relevant in terms of signals intercepts, but really, I can't see how any security talks are at all relevant. And as you say, if the foreign ministry is more about humiliating once-allied or friendly countries (remember the Turkish Ambassador thing?) then it's kind of doing the opposite of it's job. Why bother meeting with Israelis if it's predominant use is a tool to occasionally dammage UK diplomats... lets not forget the passport business either... and in the end, why bother to change the law? Let the Israeli diplomats avoid London.
Paramount Member	Thu Nov 04 13:08:51 Imagine if someone urged Israel to change its laws so that war criminals from the 2nd world war can't be prosecuted? lol
Asgard Member	Thu Nov 04 15:02:19 Funny how no one even asks 2nd world war leaders visiting london to be arrested, and all these activists only seek for Israeli no-body politicians to be arrested.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 04 15:11:54 Asgard: Actually, they do. Pinochet? There have been others too. These activists are largely Palestinian groups with london offices. It's strange, but somehow settlers rights doesn't seem to strike such a chord: perhaps because the Israeli settlers find guns a far more effective method of asserting their rights and have no need to use foreign courts. And of course, most Hamas officials are already banned from travelling to the UK, making the whole question rather accadmic, but indeed, there is nothing to stop you from starting an advocacy group to try and press private cimrinal charges against people you don't like who visit the UK.
Jason.Bourne Member	Thu Nov 04 16:20:40 "UK has not implemented Sharia law. All the anglo based legal systems, including your own, have something equivalent to the Arbitration act. Sharia, if this is what you want to call civil arbitration proceedings with an Islamic flavour, is practiced in the US under the Federal Arbitration act, in Canada, the UK and I think Australia. " If it stinks like shit, looks like shit, and sticks to your shoe like shit, then its shit. You can dress it down if you like. The UK is gradually replacing its laws with those designed to respect and revere Islamic laws (and here's the kicker) at the expense of Christianity. Fuck me, they've even begun honoring Samhain- some druid bullshit from 5,000 years ago. But death to the Christians, right?
Asgard Member	Thu Nov 04 16:27:23 "nd of course, most Hamas officials are already banned from travelling to the UK, making the whole question rather accadmic" Do you want to see if these Palestinian (or pro-palestinian) activists would object to any attempt to arrest Hamas officials? I mean, jew blood is not worth the same as Palestinian blood.
Asgard Member	Thu Nov 04 16:29:09 It's the same thing with the guy whow as off'd in Dubai by Mossad. Ok, Mossad used Foreign passports that were faked. ok... Doesn't stop Hamas from saying he himself travelled to Dubai using a fake passport as well, but ofcouse they'd use the passport thing to bash Israel and make themselves look angelic.
Seb Member	Thu Nov 04 20:56:24 Asgard: "Do you want to see if these Palestinian (or pro-palestinian) activists would object to any attempt to arrest Hamas officials?" They probably would. I wouldn't remotely consider it necessary to alter the law to accommodate them. Most of the political actors in the sordid mess you lot have created deserve to end up in jail for various crimes against humanity. "Doesn't stop Hamas from saying he himself travelled to Dubai using a fake passport as well" 1. Was it a British passport? 2. Was it the full on theft of identity or just a fake document? 3. Did it endanger British citizens? Why do you think making Israel bad makes Hamas look angelic. Most of us don't actually look at the world as a balance with Israel on one side and Palestinan groups on the other. Generally, the view is that the Palestinians deserve liberty and a state, Hamas are a bunch of psychopaths most of whom belong in jail in an ideal world, and the state of Israel a war criminal.
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